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Author Topic: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)  (Read 25335 times)

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Offline RussellChamp

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Hey guys!  New-ish MBAC player here.  Nice to meet y'all!

Anyway, 2 years ago I bought a wired XBox360 controller (even though I don't own an XBox360) and I've been using it for all sorts of games including Ragnarok Battle Offline, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood AC, etc, etc... and it's worked rather well for me.  However, a friend and I have just recently gotten a bit more competitive and I'm noticing some serious deficiencies in my current setup, particularly with grabs, ex shields, and spot dodging.  I'm also having a tiny bit of trouble consistently (100% of the time) getting out all quarter-circles and a really hard time even regularly (even 50% of the time) getting out any of the 421-? moves.
Right now I am NOT interested in buying a stick (even though I know it would be a lot nicer) but I'm looking for input with what I have now.

My current button layout is as follows.  I already know that it's kinda' broken so that's why I'm asking for advice now.
OLD SETUP
Movement - Left control stick
A -- A
B -- B
C -- X
D -- Y
Quick Action -- Left bumper
Pause -- start button
A+D -- right bumper
A+B -- right stick click
A+B+C -- left stick click

NEW SETUP
Movement -- D-Pad (after the Pringles hack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5knRrd-UU)
A -- X
B -- A
C -- B
D -- right bumper
Quick Action -- Y
A+B+C -- Left bumper


Anyway, has anyone had any experience using an XBox360 controller (either successfully or unsuccessfully) that they'd like to share?  Thanks in advance!

-Russ  :teach:

EDIT: BTW, current favorite characters are #1 Nero Chaos and #2 Ciel (and my friend's favorite char is Akiha Vermillion and he keep corner trapping me as Nero!!)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 06:17:04 AM by RussellChamp »

Offline Curbeh

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2009, 07:17:46 PM »
A: Use a PS2 controller...
B: Use a (arcade) Stick


I honestly can't see a 360 controller being any good for fighting games.
They can't get enough of me

Offline RussellChamp

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2009, 07:24:58 PM »
A: Use a PS2 controller...
B: Use a (arcade) Stick


I honestly can't see a 360 controller being any good for fighting games.

Well.... that's not exactly what I was looking for, but I'll run with it.  What is it, exactly, that makes a PS2 controller so much better than a 360 controller?  For all intents and purposes, they're extremely alike with only a few different buttons and most in similar places.  Also, if you're that down on it, would I just be better off using the keyboard?

-Russ  :teach:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 07:50:04 PM by RussellChamp »

Offline Legendary Blue Shirt

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2009, 07:36:57 PM »
Don't let other people's personal preferences get to you, if you want to be a 360 pad warrior then do it.
Of course, there's a certain advantage to being able to walk into an arcade and knowing how to use a proper arcade stick.
If you want to have the same layout that the PS2 games use, you'll have to map it as such:

A - X
B - Y
C - B
D - A
Quick Action - Right Bumper

I'm not sure about the macro buttons, no one here uses them and the arcades don't have them.

Edit: Oh yeah, wireless controllers may have input delay.  If you can get a wired 360 controller you'd be wise to do so.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 07:38:39 PM by Legendary Blue Shirt »

Offline RussellChamp

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2009, 07:49:26 PM »
Hmm... thanks for the support and suggestion.  I'll try that setup out!
Also...
Anyway, 2 years ago I bought a wired XBox360 controller... [snip]
-Russ  :teach:

Offline Curbeh

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2009, 07:51:40 PM »
For me:
Having the direction on the D-pad separated (+ vs O)
Having the the D-pad and the buttons on the same horizontal level
Having the left and right triggers much closer to each other
And having the controller smaller in general

Are the major pluses for me to favor PS2 controllers.


My setup (for both) would look like:

X - 360 - PS2
A - X - [ ]
B - A - X
C - B - O
D - Y - ∆
AB - RT - R2
AD - RB - R1
ABC - LB - L1


I've tried 360 controllers for numerous fighters, I really can't get into/used to using them...
They can't get enough of me

Offline RussellChamp

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2009, 08:05:55 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.  I can totally see the merit, there.  It was a lot more helpful than "buy a stick".  There are some games that don't require quite the finesse or split-hair response that MBAC dose.  (EG my previous example of RBO... you should try it!  It's fun! www.ragnarokbattle.com )
However, right now I don't have the money/motivation to go out and buy a stick or PS2 controller / adapter.  Maybe after my 360 controller dies I'll consider it.
-Russ  :teach:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 08:08:32 PM by RussellChamp »

Offline shiki321

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2009, 12:20:51 AM »
heh i use to play my MB or other games with the 360 controller but now i can't cuz there somthing wrong with my USB port...  :'(

Offline Van_Artic

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 02:55:57 AM »
personally, i would use the 360 controller if the d-pad wouldn't suck this much

anyway my actual setup with the ps2 pad:

A - []
B - ∆
C - O
D - X
AB - L2
AD - R2
ABC - L1

btw, what's the price for the most cheapest arcade stick? i'd like to buy one
<Zelretch> i would pay for a Kouma bedsheet
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<ehrik> does ckouma have any hype combos <setrajonas> 2aaa <ehrik> damn that combo <ehrik> is too hard <ehrik> do you have anything easier

Offline Iduno

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 07:14:38 AM »
I've heard there's a mod you can do to the 360 pad with some sandpaper and a pringles lid, can't remember the link though, just google it.
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Offline EverAlert

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2009, 07:43:07 AM »
I used to use a 360 pad for Melty, which was quite painful. I've since migrated to stick, but if you really want to be a pad warrior, as mentioned the PS2 pad is the way to go, for already-given reasons. In any case, here's my old 360 setup:

A - X
B - A
C - B
D - Y
Q - [none]
AB - L Bumper
AD - R Bumper
ABC - Back

I found that to be the most optimal layout, personally; A/B/C made more sense for 3-way teleports, everything is within reach/unobtrusive, etc. etc.). I really recommend buying a stick though, it's a lot more natural to use and you won't find yourself fighting with the controller. There are decent inexpensive sticks you can buy if money is an issue (see below).


Quote from: Van_Artic
btw, what's the price for the most cheapest arcade stick? i'd like to buy one

I don't know if this is the cheapest, but $30 seems to be the going price for a Mayflash stick.

Offline RussellChamp

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 08:05:16 AM »
I've heard there's a mod you can do to the 360 pad with some sandpaper and a pringles lid, can't remember the link though, just google it.
I believe the link is here... http://tinyurl.com/ml4njd
I'm usually quite hesitant of hardware mods, but this looks fairly easy and difficult to screw up as you're not actually cutting any of your controller parts.  I don't see the direct benefit here, though, as it seems nobody uses the d-pad anyway.

Also, if sticks are that inexpensive I might be interested in getting one.  I was just a bit scared off when I saw in a general thread that someone said they got a "crapy/mediocre" stick for $150.

-Russ  :teach:

Offline Van_Artic

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 08:14:41 AM »
I don't know if this is the cheapest, but $30 seems to be the going price for a Mayflash stick.
does anyone have this? usually cheap arcade sticks are not so good in terms of quality
<Zelretch> i would pay for a Kouma bedsheet
<Zelretch> seriously i wouldnt mind sleeping with PURE MASCULINITY

<ehrik> does ckouma have any hype combos <setrajonas> 2aaa <ehrik> damn that combo <ehrik> is too hard <ehrik> do you have anything easier

Offline Fui

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 08:23:07 AM »
I've heard there's a mod you can do to the 360 pad with some sandpaper and a pringles lid, can't remember the link though, just google it.
I believe the link is here... http://tinyurl.com/ml4njd
I'm usually quite hesitant of hardware mods, but this looks fairly easy and difficult to screw up as you're not actually cutting any of your controller parts.  I don't see the direct benefit here, though, as it seems nobody uses the d-pad anyway.

Also, if sticks are that inexpensive I might be interested in getting one.  I was just a bit scared off when I saw in a general thread that someone said they got a "crapy/mediocre" stick for $150.

-Russ  :teach:
You can get a good one for $100 (HRAP 2 or something). I have one but I prefer pad. Still.

I used a PS2 pad. Some inputs are too difficult when compared to stick so I used the shortcut keys for certain things.
In terms of ZBOZ:
A = X
B = A
C = B
D = Right bumper
Quick Action (throw) = Y
A+B (dash/dodge) = R2 (right...trigger?)
A+D = not mapped
A+B+C (heat) = Left bumper

The d-pad looks kinda crappy on the zboz controller but hopefully it works for you. I remember trying to use it at the Aksys Battle Fantasia demo at AX and it was a nightmare.

Offline RussellChamp

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 08:31:24 AM »
The odd thing, as well, is that right now I can't seem to map anything onto the trigger buttons.  I forgot whether I'm using the old driver or the new driver since I did a reformat a while back.  :slowpoke:  I think I'm using the old one, tho.  Another retarded thing with the XBox 360 controller is that the default driver has the right and left triggers on a single axis.  That way, when you hit both triggers at once... can you guess what happens? ... they both cancel each other out and nothing happens.  This would TOTALLY be a nightmare for trying to play many FPSs on a PC (such as Halo 2, 3).  What was microsloth thinking?  :psyduck:
-Russ  :teach:

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2009, 09:36:05 AM »
I don't know if this is the cheapest, but $30 seems to be the going price for a Mayflash stick.
does anyone have this? usually cheap arcade sticks are not so good in terms of quality
Couldn't find any real reviews for the thing, but I am a bit worried about the fact that not even their website mentions what parts are being used, so it would really be hit or miss  :psyduck:

Still say bank some money to the side, and build one, if you know someone or can build a case (Apparently it's possible with just a dremel) it will save you quite a bit of cash as paying someone else to build one is a good chunk of change. Hell, I currently have one commissioned using Pao Ferro (exotic wood) which is setting me back a good $160, but that price is mostly due to the wood itself.   

Offline RussellChamp

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2009, 03:20:03 PM »
I've heard there's a mod you can do to the 360 pad with some sandpaper and a pringles lid, can't remember the link though, just google it.
So, even though that was not directly related to the question at hand, I tried it anyway.  :P
I agree, the d-pad is now a lot more responsive and "click-y". :-D  I'll have to try it out in some games...

-Russ  :teach:


EDIT:
WOW!  Big change and big help!  I tried using the button setup setup Fui suggested and tried using the d-pad instead of the control stick.  With the upgraded responsiveness, I could get the 412-? moves out just fine!  :toot: (what I was having real trouble with before.)  I can see how the better layout will help me quite a bit.  Now I'll have to re-learn myself how to play with the new config. Q_Q
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 03:45:59 PM by RussellChamp »

Offline EverAlert

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 04:05:59 PM »
I need to try out this pringles lid mod, anything to make that mushy d-pad more responsive. xD


Quote from: Van_Artic
does anyone have this? usually cheap arcade sticks are not so good in terms of quality
I have one, which I bought purely because I needed a cheap PS3-compatible stick for Evo, since I don't have a PS3 and therefore nothing that will work on PS3 lol. Although I'm still relatively new to sticks (particularly various brands/parts/quality), I haven't had any issues while playing with it so far. The joystick is kinda loose, that doesn't seem to affect gameplay at all though.

Take that as you will. I'm not exactly bothered with the quality of this specific stick in the first place, so my feedback may be useless. :psyduck:


Quote from: RussellChamp
The odd thing, as well, is that right now I can't seem to map anything onto the trigger buttons. ... Another retarded thing with the XBox 360 controller is that the default driver has the right and left triggers on a single axis.

About the trigger buttons, that's MBAC's fault. It won't let you set anything on an axis as a button, and assumes the main stick and dpad are used for control without letting you set those individually. So as a result you can't set the triggers, since they're pressure-sensitive (on an axis; not actual buttons).

Also the axis problem has more to do with DirectInput vs XInput. The 360 pad is meant to be a DirectInput-compatible XInput controller, so there's a reason the triggers are on the same axis. Ultimately it's up to the software whether to implement DirectInput or XInput. When using XInput the triggers will be seen as different "axises", while DirectInput sees them as shared. I doubt Halo 2/3 would have the axis problem, it's likely they run XInput. Anyway, new drivers won't "fix" this.

Hope I'm not coming off as rude, just trying to help. :3
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 10:07:14 PM by EA »

Offline RussellChamp

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2009, 06:08:37 PM »
[snip...]

Hope I'm not coming off as rude, just trying to help. :3

No, no!  That was quite helpful!  Also, thanks for the (hidden) link.  I still find it funny that they are seen as on the same axis.  If you got under the "Game Controllers" menu from the Control Panel (assuming you're running WinXP) you can see in the configuration options of the controller that Windoze (at least) sees it as one axis.  This makes it difficult for other games such as emus for old games. (If you know what I mean... is that topic taboo here?)

-Russ  :teach:

Offline ShinMasaki

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2009, 08:31:36 PM »
in addition, i got pissed off at the 360 controller for fighting games. So, what did I do?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=57402.0

is approximately what i did. if you don't want to buy a stick, then build one...easy enough. personally though, i prefer a ps2 pad for melty
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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2009, 08:55:58 PM »
[...] personally though, i prefer a ps2 pad for melty
Preach it, bro.
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Offline Van_Artic

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2009, 04:29:02 AM »
hey guys, what about this one?
i'm going to buy it o_O
<Zelretch> i would pay for a Kouma bedsheet
<Zelretch> seriously i wouldnt mind sleeping with PURE MASCULINITY

<ehrik> does ckouma have any hype combos <setrajonas> 2aaa <ehrik> damn that combo <ehrik> is too hard <ehrik> do you have anything easier

Offline Legendary Blue Shirt

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2009, 04:35:33 AM »
  • Full of the aggressive design
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Sounds good to me!

Offline Van_Artic

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2009, 04:53:00 AM »
i just hope it doesn't break after only 2 matches on MBAC and Tekken 5 :P

ENGRISH FTW
<Zelretch> i would pay for a Kouma bedsheet
<Zelretch> seriously i wouldnt mind sleeping with PURE MASCULINITY

<ehrik> does ckouma have any hype combos <setrajonas> 2aaa <ehrik> damn that combo <ehrik> is too hard <ehrik> do you have anything easier

Offline psu319

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Re: XBox360 controller (comments and button layout suggestions)
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2009, 05:23:43 AM »
This is the pad I use.  I've had if for over a year and for the price you can't beat it.
http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=40467