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Author Topic: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread  (Read 67961 times)

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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2012, 04:53:31 PM »
Good to know.
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Offline Legendary Blue Shirt

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2012, 05:53:19 AM »
Theorycrafting time!

C.Miyako has a new 236 followup with 6[A]
It's not air unblockable, it's not an overhead, but it is jump cancellable on block.  What do we do with this?

Offline Light

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2012, 10:33:17 AM »
So far the only thing I have is TK 623B after 6[A], to add more pressure but it's ex shield bait. This move could be a lot better if there was much more plus frames, since it seems like you can't really do anything interesting in the air, compared to your standard options when doing a jump in a neutral situation while your opponent is cornered. Perhaps there's some way to punish jumpers with this... 

Edit: Oh yeah, I was testing to see if that character specific fuzzy mentioned earlier in the MBAC thread still worked. I spent about five minutes and I couldn't get it. Has anyone here manage to pull it off or does it not work anymore due to Miyako's j.A being slower in MBAA?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 10:45:34 AM by Light »
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Offline Shizuka

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2012, 09:43:51 PM »
Some things of note that I found in training mode.
C-Miyako
The corner combo 2A5B2B5C2C 214a 5bc aerial, doesn't work on aoko and ries, probably other characters too but I haven't tested them all yet.

For Aoko just using 5B instead of 5BC keeps her from bouncing over your head.
Ries you have to skip the 5BC all together and just go straight into the aircombo, jabc jabc.
Add Len to that list, aircombo only.
Wallachia is floaty, so instead of 5BC you have to do 5B2B, the aircombo is j.bc j.bc.

Also as far as I can tell in the corner adding j623 seems to be the highest damage for meter so far.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 10:30:55 PM by Shizuka »
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Offline Zero

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2012, 02:06:25 AM »
2a 5b 2b 5b 2c 214a walk back 5b 5c j.bc dj.abc airthrow
Should work on anyone in the corner.

2a 5b 2b 5c 214c delay 5c BE214b 5b 2b j.bc dj.abc airthrow
Still your most damaging corner combo, I believe.



For 236a/b~6[a], I think its only used to delay it a bit more and still have momentum. IAD or just 9 would probably work pretty well.

Offline Legendary Blue Shirt

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2012, 04:46:12 AM »
CMiyako
214C OTG relaunch doesn't work on Ciel  :mystery:

Offline Light

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2012, 09:04:49 PM »
CMiyako
214C OTG relaunch doesn't work on Ciel  :mystery:

Yep. If you check back a page I got a whole list of which OTG relaunch whiffs on what characters.
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Offline Shizuka

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2012, 05:13:30 PM »
2a 5b 2b 5b 2c 214a walk back 5b 5c j.bc dj.abc airthrow
Should work on anyone in the corner.

I stand corrected. Thank you sir.
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Offline Inso

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2012, 04:07:25 AM »
2a 5b 2b 5c 214c delay 5c BE214b 5b 2b j.bc dj.abc airthrow
Still your most damaging corner combo, I believe.
I'm having the same thoughts about meterless combos being the norm. I tried the above mentioned combo and this one deals almost the same damage:
2a 5b 2b 5c 2c 214a 5b 5c 2b j.bc j.abc throw

Maybe we're still missing something...

About 236 6[A], you can actually combo with TK j.22C. And even if it's blocked, it serves as a pressure reset since any j.22 leaves you in a slight advantage if you cancel the move in the first possible moment (... right?)
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Offline Zero

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2012, 05:42:59 AM »
The only reason why I didn't include the 2b after 214a 5b 5c is because it is character specific. For some characters using 5b 5c 2b will cause you to go into the corner and you'll screw up your air combo and for some other characters it'll just whiff.

Offline Inso

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2012, 06:25:56 AM »
The only reason why I didn't include the 2b after 214a 5b 5c is because it is character specific. For some characters using 5b 5c 2b will cause you to go into the corner and you'll screw up your air combo and for some other characters it'll just whiff.
My point is, the damage difference is about 300. Does that really justifiy using the meter?

Also, did some more testing on the 236 6[A] TK j.22C, and it's very bunker friendly on reaction to the EX.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 06:36:48 AM by Inso »
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Offline Zero

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2012, 06:46:46 AM »
My point is, the damage difference is about 300. Does that really justifiy using the meter?

In most situations no it wouldn't be a good use of meter. Usually only used if you needed the extra damage in for a kill but even then using the normal combo and ending it in j.623a j.623c does like 20 less damage.

Most of the meter will be used for getting j.22c knockdown midscreen, 236c/214c carry combos, and heat.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2012, 05:29:31 PM »
And reversal.  So many reversals.

I feel that j.22c should pretty much be used for knockdown whether in the corner or not.  I'm still not playing yet, so really this is all just talk based on my exp with mbaa F Miyako. 

The less you use airthrow ender, the more it gives your opponent the illusion that they can actually tech out.  For F, a single combo into another tech punish combo is the round.  Even with C, doing a corner combo into a midscreen tech punish combo (is there an optimized midscreen bnb yet?) into j.22c ender nets you probably like 75% life + momentum.  That's almost a guaranteed round in itself.  Getting your opponent to tech after an airthrow is an important tool that only works a few times.  Work those mind games, you know?
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Offline arukimi

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2012, 07:06:35 AM »
And reversal.  So many reversals.

Personally, I'm barely using meter for reversals now (C-Moon). They completely took out 236C invincibility (and by completely I do mean completely) and now pretty much anything eats it for free. 623C is nice, but 623A is almost identical and doesn't needs meter.

And I'm not exactly sure about J22C ender for the knockdown. I'll be honest and say I barely even messed around with it on training and haven't had many chances to use it on matches, but it doesn't feels like it gives me that many good options as far as oki goes. I'm assuming I'm missing out on a lot of common knowledge here since I haven't played this game for years, but what do you usually use after an J22C ender? (Or is it mostly used for the momentum rather than oki?)
The best I could manage was meaty whatever (which usually gets blocked) or ambiguous neutral jumps, which are nice but feels like they could be easily countered.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2012, 07:17:02 PM »
Oh word.  I knew 236c was nerfed, but didn't realize all inv frames were removed altogether.  Was the inv startup of 214c removed as well?  LBS used to whore that shit out in staggered blockstrings when he saw any C normal and just utilized dash > be214b for free corner carry.

Is there enough time to whiff a normal and recover before they get up?  Do you have enough time to do dash neutral jump-in meaty, and if so, can you whiff the jump-in and land before they wakeup?  Can you meaty overhead (be5c or 623b)?  Can you safely step back and ambiguously evade roll for a which-way?  I dunno man, get creative and test shit out to see exactly how much time you have and what you can do with it (or watch some high level jp miyako and xcopy, lol).

For MBAA F Miyako, there wasn't a whole ton of convincing mixup she could run after her j.421c elbow knockdown.  In the corner you had exactly enough time to whiff a 5b or 2b and recover before most characters (aka not ryougi) finished wakeup recovery. 

This means that at the basic level your options were:
-meaty 5b/2b
-throw
-whiff 5b/2b > 2a
-whiff 5b/2b > throw
-whiff 5b/2b > bait reversal

If the opponent started getting intimidated and turtling up, you could throw out less safe options that had more convincing mixup, but even then her options were kind of weak.  Her best non-IH mixup was probably like deep 9j.c vs 22c vs 9j.empty for ambiguous high/low/throw and anyone could just mash the fuck out of that.  Most of the time you only had that basic shit to rely on. 

But don't get me wrong!  There is strength in the basic triad of meaty/throw/whiff universal oki mixup.
-Mixing up between meaty 5b and 2b forces them to think about whether to shield high or low, beats any non-reversal, and enforces the desire to reversal.
-Whiffing 5b or 2b gives enough time to bait out reversals (block/shield/etc) and punish, while still giving you enough time to mash 2a into pressure or punish wakeup mashing, thereby reinforcing the illusion that nothing is safe (which encourages turtling).
-Throwing (especially after whiff) beats out anyone turtling up and leads into a free combo, enforcing the desire to mash out or jump out.

It covers most wake-up options and allows you to lead your opponent into abusable thought patterns.  If there's enough okizeme time to mix it up further, that's awesome.  If there isn't enough time, at least this basic mixup can be utilized to keep your all-important momentum.  This should apply just as well to C Miyako, despite 2b not being low, but you'd have to test it out to be certain.
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Offline Legendary Blue Shirt

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2012, 03:57:23 AM »
214C is a mixed bag, one one hand the invuln frames have been reduced.  On the other hand, the move overall got fast, both startup and recovery.  That means that punishing circuit sparks during your ground string requires precise timing rather than gut reactions, and dodging whiffed moves with it is not so easy.

And yes, the loss of 236C as a way to close distance and punish everything for no reason is a nightmare for me.  If only the last hit of 623C would work on crouchers...

Offline Legendary Blue Shirt

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2012, 09:22:33 AM »

Offline Shiki

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2012, 10:50:41 AM »
If anyone still cares about F moon still, here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=KegGrzopVGY

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2012, 04:48:59 PM »
Man, like 80% of that video is completely pointless.
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Offline Shiki

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2012, 07:04:49 PM »
Man, like 80% of that video is completely pointless.

Yep. Japan sure has a lot of time for themselves. Oh well.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2012, 09:02:43 PM »
Isn't that guy Russian or something?  Well, not that it matters really.

Anyway, you guys seen anything on H yet?  I still wanna see what was worth so much excitement at hydraGP.
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Offline Light

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2012, 10:19:35 PM »
LOL @ the whiff 623A mixup. :X

There were some things I liked though:

-214BE after 6C OTG relaunch
-Coast-to-coast combos with 236C. The one that went across the screen twice looked dope.
-5[C] x 22B actually comboing. lol wtf
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Offline Shiki

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2012, 03:39:18 AM »
Isn't that guy Russian or something?  Well, not that it matters really.

Anyway, you guys seen anything on H yet?  I still wanna see what was worth so much excitement at hydraGP.

I haven't seen any H moons ever since 1.05 but theres like 1 guy who only plays the character. I think his name was Yunomi?

Offline Justice

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2012, 08:21:29 AM »
So what is this infinite blockstring thing you guys keep talking about?  I'm just trying to figure out what works for resetting pressure with Miyako.

Offline Benny1

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Re: [MBAACC] Miyako Thread
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2012, 09:41:41 AM »
I messed around in practice mode for a while, H-Miyako's damage is pretty much the same, it's still good.  I have no idea what on earth people could've been talking about, the only change I saw was the 421A/B being a groundbounce on grounded hit now.
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