Messages

1

UNREAL BLACK THINGS / Re: Under Night In-Birth

« on: October 02, 2012, 01:58:43 AM »

Well, from what I can tell, hitstun deterioration and OTG limit (2 relaunches usually) seems to be reset with each Chain Shift. Maybe that's what they are fixing?

2

Other Games / Re: Skullgirls is out

« on: April 14, 2012, 01:02:38 AM »

Planning to get it off PSN, so far Ms. Fortune and Cerebella look fun to me, so I might play them both in one team ^^

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Damage Modifiers

« on: March 28, 2012, 01:42:27 AM »

Because they are not the values that the game uses, and because of the way proration works. To explain, let's take Archetype (constant 1.00) as an example. What damage do hits of a combo do to her?

Hit	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	...	29th	30th	31st	32nd
Damage (25%)	0.90675	0.87500	0.84375	0.81250	0.78125	0.75000	...	0.03125	0.03125	0.03125	0.03125
Damage (100%)	1.00000	0.96875	0.93750	0.90675	0.87500	0.84375	...	0.12500	0.09375	0.06250	0.03125
Ratio	0.90675	0.90322	0.90000	0.89655	0.89285	0.88889	...	0.25000	0.33333	0.50000	1.00000

So as you can see, this ratio is not constant throughout a combo, which is why I am opposed to using it as an actual guts value.

Somehow incorporating this into a good effective HP estimate does seem useful, but then I'd have to estimate what the average length of combos are, and what the average effect of move proration on those combos is. ...yeah, I gave up on that, but likely, the "true" effective HP is higher than the numbers that we both have.

I think there is also a difference in what we want with those numbers. If it's just for estimating effective HP, then your estimates are better than mine, because yours do incorporate some extra information. If your goal is to understand the system behind the game better, I think my numbers are better suited for that. With information about the proration system, your numbers can be deduced from that anyway (and with a lot more precision).

4

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Damage Modifiers

« on: March 27, 2012, 03:55:50 PM »

http://www.meltybread.com/forums/game-engine-mechanics/damage-scaling/

worldjem: If you compare normal Hisui numbers with Hisui (&Kohaku) numbers, it differs by a factor 1.035. Other than that, they have the same guts. Also, your defense numbers still contain the effects of the hidden combo incrementer at lower health, which is why you are getting relatively weird numbers. (Especially seeing as none of the other MB installments have more than 2 decimals in their guts numbers) As an example, below 25% HP, 3 hits are added to the combo counter when it comes to calculating damage scaling, causing first hit damage to deal only 90.675% of its original damage. (Which makes the 1.00 that I get for V.Akiha 25% HP consistent with the 0.906 = 1.00 * 90.675% that you get.)

Also, my table is also about CC 1.07, sorry if I didn't make that clear enough, and if made you do a lot of extra work.

5

Riesbyfe Stridberg / Re: H-tridberg General Thread

« on: February 28, 2012, 10:08:24 AM »

With enough execution (i.e. I needed AutoMacro for this), one can end a corner combo with a forced knockdown for more damage than the standard double wall bounce one. It's basically a variant of the wall bounce oki BnB's that are on the wiki already, but one which is quite a bit harder >_<

... 214B (delay j7).BE5C j.6C (step back) BE6B (delay) 2C 5C [63214B 5A 5C]xN 63214A

(confirmed it against Archetype: Earth and V.Akiha, btw, haven't looked at other characters yet)

6

Mech-Hisui & Neco Arc / Re: MBAACC Neko Mech

« on: January 22, 2012, 03:39:16 AM »

214C j.[C] dj.[C] (dash) 2C ...
Gives a ton of damage, but I'm not sure how I'm to hit my opponent with a raw 214C... *maybe* with a standing CH from a normal or something like that.

Do you have enough time to mix-up off of God Cat?

I see now that I forgot to mention that it requires enough distance to work. *edits*

In any case, I doubt you can get an actual mixup off, since 214C ends a bit before you can reach the opponent.

7

Powerd Ciel / Re: v1.07 F-Moon Powerd Ciel Discussion (Who needs LASERS when you have ROCKS?!)

« on: January 21, 2012, 09:59:09 AM »

The rock loop is corner only, indeed, 3B pushes the opponent too far away from you if you're midscreen.

By the way, 3C used like that will whiff on female crouchers. So it would be better to knock the opponent off his feet beforehand, to ensure that 3C connects. The starter would then become 2A 5B(B) 6B 2C 3C. (It doesn't matter a lot if you do the second hit of 5BB or not, the damage will turn out to be the roughly the same.) It seems that against a lot of characters, even 5A 5B 2B 6B 2C 3C works.

Also see the wiki page, though I have my doubts about the combos involving 63214A there.

Also, here a combo that requires 1 bar, and does some okay damage:

2A 5B 6B 2C 3C j.C j.214C

It can also be followed up by a 2C 236A in the corner, and by a dash 236C midscreen.

8

Mech-Hisui & Neco Arc / Re: MBAACC Neko Mech

« on: January 21, 2012, 09:14:21 AM »

Great stuff indeed. Though I'm more of a C-Neco&Mech player, there was still a lot of useful information for me there.

One little note by the way, you can also combo off a max range 2C with 2C > 5C xx 623A > air combo for better damage, if you haven't used 5C in your string yet.


Anyway, I have been playing around with C-Neco&Mech, and here are some combos that I managed to come up with. 2C > 5C does not tend to connect at max range, but it at least works more often than 2C > 6C

... 2C (5C) 623A/C
for some damage and oki

... 2C 5C j.ACB dj.AC (dash) AT
... 2C 5C 6C hj.BC dj.AC (dash) AT

... 2C 214A j.[C] (dash) 2C 6C j.BC dj.BC (dash) AT
... 2C 214A j.[C] (dash) 2C 5C 6C hj.BC dj.AC (dash) AT
for better carry. This does work off a max range 2C as well, provided that your neco's ready.

I'm wondering here if I can do something like ... 2C 214A j.[C] dj.[C]B/A into relaunch, and if it's worth it for the damage or not.

C-Neco&Mech can also do something like ... j.BC (dash) j.B dj.BC AT, but the timing on this seems pretty tight, and can only be done in the corner.

Impractical stuff:

2B 2C 5C 623C 623C 623C (otg) 623C (otg) 623C
Silly 100-hit combo that requires infinite meter. (With MAX you can get 4 623C's though)

(far) 214C j.[C] dj.[C] (dash) 2C ...
Gives a ton of damage, but I'm not sure how I'm to hit my opponent with a raw 214C, with enough distance... A max range 5B CH does seem to work, though, but I don't know if it's hitconfirmable or not.

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Powerd Ciel / Re: v1.07 F-Moon Powerd Ciel Discussion (Who needs LASERS when you have ROCKS?!)

« on: January 06, 2012, 01:12:57 AM »

Thanks!


By the way, F-PCL's AD and AAD both hit OTG, so you can end the ... 2C 3C j.C j.236A-A with it. AD leaves you and your opponent at opposite sides of the screen (so it's bad for oki?). AAD leaves you anywhere from the middle of the screen to the corner, and the opponent in the opposite corner, depending on the distance to the corner when AAD hits. For corner oki + a bit of damage, I personally like 236C a lot better for this.

BE236A is an OTG relaunch, you can do things like 5B 2B 2C BE236A in the corner, then follow up by dashing in. Doesn't give any damaging combos though, because of the OTG damage penalty I guess.

A lot of moves cause ground bounce, like j.B, the last hits of the dp followup (with enough height), 3B, j.214C. It's hard to exploit the ground bounce of the dp followup though. I've tried something like j.C 5A 5B 2B 2C 3C j.(delay)A (delay) j.236A (delay) A (last one should hit once in the first part of the dive, and once while near to the ground, but I can only get that timing right once in a blue moon), which can be followed up with a non-OTG 2A 2A 3B 2C. Doesn't sound very practical, but it may be good for some combo movies.

EDIT: It turns out that Throw > 2C leaves the opponent slightly out of the corner, allowing for a crossup setup. Might be interesting ^^

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Powerd Ciel / Re: v1.07 F-Moon Powerd Ciel Discussion (Who needs LASERS when you have ROCKS?!)

« on: January 03, 2012, 02:31:35 PM »

Here are some of F-PCL's move names. Can't figure them out by myself (only a beginner at Japanese), so I wondered if anyone here is good enough at Japanese to help out ^^

236X: ラピッドステイク -> Rapid Stake
623X,j.236X: シャフトドライブ -> Shaft Drive
(j.)214X: ヴァージンペイン -> Virgin Pain/Pane? (Last one doesn't make much sense, first one is just wtf)
(j.)214C: オリフラム　コンサート -> .... Concert (can't imagine what the first word should be (in romaji it's "orifuramu" btw)
63214X: グランドサッパー -> Grand Supper
AD: 第七聖典　原罪弾劾 -> ?
AAD: 第七聖典　聖女埋葬 -> ?
LA: 数秘紋　天の巣 -> ?

11

Powerd Ciel / Re: v1.07 F-Moon Powerd Ciel Discussion (Who needs LASERS when you have ROCKS?!)

« on: January 01, 2012, 02:10:24 PM »

Bleh, I get j.6C by accident a lot >_< I swear, that move is put in just to annoy people with poor execution like me D=

12

Akiha's Tea Room / Re: Introductory Thread (Take off your shoes, please)

« on: January 01, 2012, 04:26:54 AM »

Hey everyone,

Mengjun here, from the Netherlands. Melty-fan since AA, mainly played F-Ries then (also tried other full moon characters like F-Ciel, F-Kouma, F-Seifuku). I think I'm going to main F-PCL in CC, liked her so far. Also played some other fighting games, like Blazblue, and UMvC3.

Some of you might also have already noticed that I also like to delve in the numbers behind the game ^^; /nerd

Nice to meet you all!

13

Powerd Ciel / Re: Pcl dp hitboxes

« on: January 01, 2012, 02:46:27 AM »

Because she gets complete air movement after the DP, aka its safe on block. If it had proper full invul it would be dumb

Oh, right.

14

Powerd Ciel / Re: Pcl dp hitboxes

« on: January 01, 2012, 02:31:12 AM »

Maybe it has to do with EX DP behaving differently on hit and on whiff. The 25 frames thing might be what happens on whiff (the thing where PCL just sails off in the air). Why they make that invincible, and not the actual startup, is beyond me though.

15

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Calculating Damage: Rounding?

« on: December 31, 2011, 02:25:24 PM »

No problem ^^;

There seems to be some weird multipliers too, like a factor 0.88 against aerial opponents (after the combo count scaling), and a factor 1.035 for Hisui&Kohaku only. (Which seems to go before the combo count scaling)

So it's likely to be an enormous pain to determine the exact order in which the numbers are multiplied.

16

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Calculating Damage: Rounding?

« on: December 31, 2011, 01:53:33 PM »

There's some multiple rounding down in the damage calculation of the second 2A that causes this.

300 * (31/32) = 290.625 -> 290
290 * (0.72) = 208.8 -> 208

explaining the 508 that you get, rather than the 509 you'd expect.

17

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Calculating Damage: Rounding?

« on: December 31, 2011, 11:52:45 AM »

2A's 300, 72% fixed.

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Calculating Damage: Rounding?

« on: December 31, 2011, 10:24:09 AM »

350, 72% fixed

Most damage numbers seem to be pretty round numbers in general, so that might help you figure out the values too.

19

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Damage Modifiers

« on: December 31, 2011, 09:32:26 AM »

CC (edit: 1.07): Totals seem to be 11500 11400 now. (Sorry, was a little quick on my conclusion. Fixed now, hopefully.)

Sion and Nanaya sure seem to have dropped on the list.

Character Name 100% 75% 50% 25% Est. Life Pts Akiha 0.92 0.85 0.82 0.80 13488 C-Nero 0.90 0.87 0.87 0.80 13280 Arcueid 0.90 0.90 0.85 0.80 13248 HF-Nero 0.90 0.88 0.87 0.80 13243 Kouma 0.92 0.90 0.85 0.80 13179 W.Len 1.00 0.90 0.80 0.80 13141 Satsuki 1.00 0.90 0.90 0.80 12745 Ries 1.02 0.90 0.90 0.80 12689 Hisui 0.85 0.95 0.92 0.90 12617 Tohno 0.92 0.90 0.92 0.95 12362 Ciel 0.90 0.90 0.90 1.00 12350 Kohaku 0.90 0.90 1.00 0.90 12350 S.Akiha 0.90 0.90 0.90 1.00 12350 Roa 0.95 0.95 0.90 0.90 12333 Sion 0.95 0.95 0.90 0.90 12333 F-Mech 0.85 0.87 1.00 1.05 12193 Hisui (&Kohaku) 0.85 0.95 0.92 0.90 *12190 Miyako 1.00 0.95 0.90 0.90 12183 V.Sion 1.00 0.95 0.90 0.90 12183 C-Mech 0.87 0.90 1.00 1.00 12142 Wallachia 1.10 1.05 0.90 0.80 12034 Aoko 1.00 1.00 0.90 0.90 12033 Warcuied 0.95 1.00 0.95 0.90 12016 C-Neco&Mech 0.87 0.95 1.00 1.00 11975 Kohaku (&Hisui) 0.90 0.90 1.00 0.90 *11932 Koha&Mech 0.90 0.95 1.00 1.00 11866 Nanaya 1.00 1.00 0.95 0.90 11866 NecoArc 1.40 0.70 1.10 0.90 11864 P.Ciel 0.95 0.95 0.95 1.00 11850 H-Mech 1.20 1.00 0.90 0.85 11744 H-Neco&Mech 1.20 1.05 0.90 0.85 11608 Len 1.10 1.00 0.95 0.90 11607 Ryougi 1.05 1.02 0.98 0.95 11416 Archetype: Earth 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 11400 F-Neco&Mech 0.95 1.00 1.10 1.10 11031 Neco Arc Chaos 1.60 0.70 1.40 1.10 10479 V.Akiha 1.15 1.15 1.10 1.00 10397 *Hisui&Kohaku get another factor 1.035 on the damage received.

20

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Calculating Damage: Rounding?

« on: December 31, 2011, 08:59:35 AM »

In most of the fighting games where I've had to calculate damage (which isn't all that many), they round everything down, but I don't know if that's the case with Melty Blood.

It seems to be the case for Melty as well, I think.