Topics

1

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Jump start up?

« on: March 09, 2010, 11:53:52 AM »

I was looking through FrameDisplay, and I noticed that characters seem to have their own unique jump start ups. For example, according to FrameDisplay:
 
Sion: j.9 goes airborne on frame 6
        j.8 goes airborne on frame 4
        j.7 goes airborne on frame 5

Kouma: j.9 goes airborne on frame 4
           j.8 goes airborne on frame 4
           j.7 goes airborne on frame 5

Aoko: j.9 goes airborne on frame 7
         j.8 goes airborne on frame 7
         j.7 goes airborne on frame 5

Just wondering if this is frame data accurate, or not.

2

Shiki Ryougi / H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.

« on: November 11, 2009, 11:33:28 PM »

Started the thread because the H-Ryougi thread was getting cluttered. Will post if updated.

General Game Play

Strengths
Normals with far reach
Multiple whiffs/ways to reset/end blockstrings
Great air to air normals
Normals deal high guard damage
Decent arc drive
Knife catch tricks/gimmicks
Able to combo off of far counter hits

Weaknesses
Normals are slow to start up
Mediocre air to ground moves
Not much in terms of grounded anti-air moves
No reversals that can be used on wake up
Slow dash/air dash
Very low health


In my opinion, the best way to utilize H-Ryougi is to use her semi-slow, far reaching normals and her 22a knife throw to out zone/punish your opponent and fish for counter hits. Once you get a CH you should be able to combo for moderate damage, and end with an air throw, or some other untechable move (623a/c) for knockdown. Save your meter for auto heat (for her arc drive and health regen), shield bunkers, and for some match ups j.236c.

From a knockdown, or if you manage to get them in block stun while zoning, you can go into a block string and start utilizing Ryougi's normals for their high guard damage (a basic blockstring will probably net around 40% guard damage), and reset your pressure with 3c (short range, safe on block. Seems like it's probably neutral or have slight +frames), 22a/c knife throw (+frames), 2a whiff cancel, 421c whiff cancel, or 22a/b/c knife pickup whiff cancel.

Ryougi's blockstrings cover quite a bit of distance, and from midscreen, you can probably get them in the corner. Once they're in the corner, you can really pressure them and better utilize her knife gimmicks.

If your opponent doesn't respect you, you can stagger your moves a little, or use fake whiff cancels to bait and punish poke outs. You can stuff jump outs with 5a/5b/5c, punish H-moon shield parries (on reaction) with 421a/b/c, and avoid H-moon auto spark by jump canceling your normal to tk j.236c or j. shield.


Basic H-Ryougi Combos

Standard BnB

Basic BnB: 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 2c 22a j.bc ad j.c dj.bc air throw - 4530 dmg

Midscreen/corner BnB: 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b [2c 3c 623b]x2 2c (you can add a 3c here for meter, but it'll lower the damage by like 30) 5bb j.bc dj.bc air throw

Midscreen/corner loop (char specific): 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]x4 5b 5c j.bc dj.bc air throw - 5831 dmg (not sure how many reps you can do, might update this later)


Corner Bnb
2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 2c 2369b 5bb 214a j.bc dj.bc air throw - 5040 dmg


Knifeless BnBs

Basic Midscreen: 2a 2b 5b 5c 2c 6aaa j.bc dj.bc air throw

Midscreen to corner/corner: 2a 2b 5b 5c 2c 6aaa 214a j.bc dj.bc air throw - 4184 dmg (for midscreen, you just need to sj.c instead of j.bc)


Combos Off of a Parry

midscreen to corner: parry 3c 2c 6aaa 214a sj.c dj.c air throw - 2313 dmg

anywhere: parry 3c 2c 5b 5c j.bc dj.bc air throw - 2300 dmg

loop: parry 3c [2a 2c 3c]x7 5b 5c j.bc dj.bc air throw - 4013 dmg


Combos tested on V. Sion


Character Specific Notes

Notes on Ciel
can’t loop easily (difficult to get over 18 hits)
can be looped, but needs to be close to the ground during the loop
can't easily be looped off of 4c 22a
can't easily be looped off of 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b 2c 3c
off of 4c 22a go into [2c 3c 623b]x2 2c 3c 236a 236a 236a or 5c 5bb j.bc dj.bc air throw

Notes on V.Sion
corner: 2a 2b 5b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 5c 22a 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]x3 236a 236a 236a 5.9k (if you have more than 5 hits before the tkj.236b, omit one rep of 2a 2c 3c)
can go into the 2a 2c 3c loop directly after a 4c 22a
can go into a loop off of 3c 623b (23 hits before you need to end the reps)
can go into a loop off of 22a 2c 3c
can go into sweep loop off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 5a 236a 236a 236a 2a 2c 3c
very easy to loop

Notes on Ries
easily looped midscreen off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c hitting the 2nd 2c is tricky though
can go into loop off of 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa on standing ries
can be looped like 3-5 times after 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b 2c 3c
generally not worth looping; Easy to loop midscreen, hard to loop in corner (weird falling aerial hit box?), and midscreen, you can generally only
get 3-4 reps off before she ends up in the corner
the 2nd 2c from 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c will often cross up and it's easier to omit it
her falling hitbox is odd: the timing for 3c in combos is a lot different than with other characters
off of 4c (corner): 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c 236a 236a 236a or 5c 5bb aerial

Notes on Akiha
can go into sweep loop off of most things into 22a (there needs to be at least 1 hit before the 22a for her to be easy to loop)
can go directly into sweep loop off of 4c 22a
can do 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 5a 236a 236a 236a 2a 2c 3c -> sweep loop
can go into sweep loop off of 2a 2b 5a6aa on standing akiha
might be able to go into sweep loop off of a 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b 2c 3c if close enough to the wall
4c 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]x8 236a236a236a or 6aaa 214a j.b6bc j.bc air throw (corner only)
2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]x5 236a236a236a or 6aaa 214a j.b6bc dj.bc air throw 5.3k (mid screen)
2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]x7 236a236a236a or 6aaa 214a j.b6bc dj.bc air throw (anywhere)
wall combo: 2a 2b 5b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 5c 22a 2c 3c (2a 2c 3c)x3 236a 236a 236a 5470 damage (you can fit in 3 reps as long as there are less than 6 hits before the tkj.236b)
easily looped: can easily go into loop midscreen and in corner

Notes on Len
2a 2c 3c loop can be done normally, it is a little more strict
much easier to end the loop with a rekka string and knife pick up
cannot go into loop from 623b
in the advanced corner combo, it’s hard to fit in more than one 2a 2c 3c
the corner rekka’s cross up overhead doesn’t hit
can easily go into loop midscreen and in corner
can’t go into loop off of 4c 22a
can launch but not loop with 2a 2b 5a6aa
Alternative Combos off of 4c: 4c 22a 2c 3c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 22a pick up -> oki 3.8k
4c 22a 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c 5c 5bb j.bc dj.bc air throw ~4.5k
5c 22a 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c 236a 236a 236a 22a oki 4.1k

Notes on Sion
not too difficult to loop, have to make sure that she’s very low to the ground after the 2c/2c 3c
2a 2c 3c loop can be done normally, timing is not very strict
difficult to go into loop from 623b midscreen (possible?)
can easily go into loop midscreen off of 22a
can go into sweep loop off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 5a (small delay) 236a 236a 236a 2a 2c 3c
kind of hard to add more than 1 or 2 extra 2a 2c 3c to the corner combo, the timing is a moderately strict
4c 22a -> loop is a tight link and you can only get like 4 reps of [2a 2c 3c]
Alternative combos: 4c 22a 2c 3c 2a 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]x4 (maybe x5?) (22/25 hits) 236a 236a 236a 22a pick up 4.1k with 3 reps
4c [2c 3c 623b]x2 2c 3c 5c 5bb j.bc dj.bc air throw 3.8k
4c 2c 3c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 22a pick up 3.2k
difficult to end the loop with 6aaa 214 j.b6bc j.bc air throw (Sion is pretty low). Probably better to end with rekkas and knife pick up unless you really need the meter. 5.5k on 5.6k

Notes on Arc
can go into sweep loop off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 5a 236a 236a 236a 2a 2c 3c -> loop
can pretty easily go into loop midscreen, needs at least 4 hits before 22a 2c 3c -> loop
can sort of loop off of 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b, difficult, with some cross ups
off of 4c 22a, go into 2c 3c 623b -> loop
can go into sweep loop off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 5a 236a 236a 236a 2a 2c 3c

Notes on Tohno Shiki
easily looped in corner
has a really irritating falling aerial hit box
corner combo is difficult against him because of random cross ups: 5bb 214a will occasionally cross up when close to corner, so you may have to input 214a as 236a
hard to combo to loop midscreen, lots of random crossups
2c can cross up pretty easily off of a 22a launch

Notes on Ryougi Shiki
cannot be looped at all

Notes on Nekos
easily looped
236a 236a 236a rekka can be used to launch after 2c 5c or 2c 5a
to combo into 22a, you need to do 2c 5c or 2c 5a or 3c 2c
Neko specific combos: 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 5a cancel to 236a 236a 236a 2a 5a 236a 236a 236a 2a 5a 236a 236a 236a
5bb 2b 2c 5c 236a 236a 236a 2a 2c 3c -> sweep loop or something
2a 2b 5bb 2c 5c 236a 236a 236a 2a 2c 3c -> sweep loop

Notes on Warakia
you can do 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 5a 236a 236a/b (if you do b immediately after the 5a, it should connect, otherwise delay the 236a) 236a 2a 2c 3c -> loop
you can do 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa 2c 3c -> loop
looped pretty easily, but can cross up pretty easily midscreen
 
Notes on. Mech-Hisui
cannot be looped
can be launched off of 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa

Notes on. Miyako
can’t seem to be looped (easily). You may have to have her be very close to the ground.
can be launched off of 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa

Notes on Roa
when looping roa, you need to keep him close to the ground
can be easily looped off of 2aa 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a
can do 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b 2c 3c 22a 2c 3c -> loop
can loop him in the corner easily off of
in the corner, can be looped off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c

Notes on. Red Arc
loop timing is similar to arc's
cannot loop off of 4c 22a
can launch, but not loop off of 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa

notes on. Kouma
can sorta be looped off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a midscreen, but it's probably not worth it most of the time

Notes on Aoko
midscreen 2c off of 22a will nearly always cross up. Omit it from most combos
can be looped midscreen off of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 22a 2c 3c
can be looped in the corner of of 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c 3c
can launch, but not loop with 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa

Notes on Nanaya
pretty easy to loop midscreen
can launch, but not loop off of 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa
cannot go into loop off of any 623b launch
cannot go into loop off of 4c 22a

Notes on W.Len
sweep loop can be done, but the timing is a little strict. Easier midscreen than in corner. Generally not worth it.
midscreen/corner: can do 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b [2c 3c 623b]x3 2c 3c 5c 5bb j.bc dj.bc j.236b

Notes on Satsuki
cannot loop easily
can launch standing satsuki with 2a 2b 5b 5a6aa
can do 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 623b [2c 3c 623b]x3 2c 3c 5c 5bb j.bc dj.bc j.236b

Notes on Kohaku
timing is mildly strict for a sweep loop
midscreen, the easiest way to go into the loop is 2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]3-5x 236a 236a 236a (can probably hit more reps, but generally not worth it)
can do a partial loop in corner: 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c 3c [2a 2c 3c]x3 236a 236a 236a
corner combo crosses up on occasion
the 2c in 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c will cross up midscreen, nearly all the time if you start with a close 2a, so omit it

Notes on Nero
j.6b and sometimes j.c and j.a can CH his j.c if timed and positioned well
j.b and j.c can CH his 4c
cannot loop
knife can punish some whiffed moves

3

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Damage against standing/crouching opponents

« on: August 27, 2009, 01:36:40 PM »

After testing a few combos in practice mode, I noticed that I do more damage when I'm hitting a crouching opponent. Is this something new, or have I just not noticed this before (in MBAC)?

4

Melty Blood Auditorium / How to go about choosing a character to main

« on: February 19, 2008, 05:22:32 PM »

Selecting a Character to Main

As you start to gain a grasp of the basic workings of Melty Blood (or any fighting game really) and want to start playing competitively, you'll want to choose a few characters to focus upon. Though some people want to master every character, they'll most likely end up playing every character adequately (though usually, it's below adequate). You simply cannot devote enough time to manage more than a few (unless you're really devoted, skilled, etc. (please don't take that as a challenge)), and the time would be better spent focusing your attention on a few. Here are some factors you should keep in mind, as you're selecting a main/secondary/tertiary character.

As you're selecting a character to main, you should examine and evaluate the character's basic and intermediate game play. Will you be able to utilize the character's strengths? Will you be able to consistently execute that character's staple combos? Is that character's general game play suited to you/will you be able to adjust your game play to suit the character? How much room does the character have for growth (in terms of advanced game play, mind games, options, etc.)? How are the character's match ups? How will it fare in the local gaming environment? Nationally? How far can you go with this character? You should use your own evaluations to determine characters you believe are/will be ‘best’ (in your level of play), or the character you believe you will do the best with/advance the furthest with. Note that some characters that may be considered good/great/broken in some levels of play, but may lose their shine in others.

For my convenience, I'll generalize the levels of game play as basic, intermediate, and advanced. Some characters will be good throughout all levels of game play, while others are especially effective/dominate in one, but appear less in others due to the shortcomings of the player or the character at that level of game play. If the players cannot efficiently utilize a character's strengths, they will not be able to use them effectively. For this reason, characters like Sion are rarely seen in the basic level of game play, due to their execution requirements, but are seen with more frequency at higher levels of game play. Conversely, you see characters like Shiki Tohno that are used frequently in lower levels of game play, but less in higher levels. The shortcomings of a character will gradually become more noticeable as the level of game play increases and other players start taking advantage of your character's weaknesses. Block strings that once seemed safe are now being punished. Slow attacks will start being punished more frequently and more harshly. Your ranged attack that extended your hit box and that you once considered godly, now causes you to eat a combo. You can either choose a character that will be good for short term play, and then switch as your skill level increases, or choose a character that you think will be suitable for long term play.


Short Term Advantage Vs. Long Term Prospective

If you're looking to play a character for the short term, then you only have to examine areas of the character relevant to your gaming environment. When you're looking through the character list for a good choice for short term play, you're generally looking for characters that have stronger match ups in the current gaming environment. By playing that character, you force other players to increase their skill level at a faster rate (they've got to find answers), thus raising the average level of game play, or to begin experimenting with other characters (counter picking), thus diversifying your play environment. Of course, you'll also learn many basic/intermediate/advanced mechanics for general game play and improve as a player while playing your short term character, and those will be applicable towards other characters when you switch. However, though many people will 'up their game' to meet the new standards, there are many players that will simply refuse to play against you, or just give up/quit. Those players are generally the players that are not looking to increase their skill level, and aren't be looking to play the game competitively anyways, so don't feel too terrible about it.

If, however, you're looking for a character with long term prospective, then you should more closely examine their intermediate and advanced game play, and determine if it's feasible for you to (ever) effectively utilize the character's strengths and (consistently) meet the character's execution requirements. If you cannot, then other characters may be more suitable for you. When you choose to play a character for the long term, it's possible that you may start off in a seriously disadvantageous position (like playing V. Akiha with a basic skill level). You might have poor match ups against the other players, you may not be able to meet the execution requirements for your character's damaging/staple combos, you may not be able to properly utilize your character's strengths, and in many other ways, you'll suck. But this may force you to adapt to meet those standards. You will have a fairly easy time evaluating how much your skill level has improved (when you stop dropping combos, start winning, etc.) and as you progress, you'll have a clearer idea of where you're going (compared to short term players).

Essentially, picking a short term character will raise your area's average level of game play at a faster rate, which will in turn, force you to up your game, while long term characters force you to up your game, in turn forcing others to do the same. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, there are some characters that are exceptions, and are good throughout all levels of game play (Ciel being the first to come to mind), which will give you an edge while still having prospective for growth.

For players in a fairly developed scene (where they're surrounded by experienced players or players that are familiar with the game), I consider both paths to be equally viable, and think the choice really depends on personal preference. But for a developing scene (where they're all fairly new to the game), I think that the presence of characters that give short term advantages may benefit the players more, since it will force players to find ways to cope with the different character's strengths, and force an increase in the average skill level more quickly, making the game more enjoyable for all. Having some of them play as more challenging characters can be beneficial, but having a whole group of new players all trying to play as high execution characters may lead them into stagnation (nothing will be effectively punished, slower pace of game play, etc.).

~Will add more later and tweak it a bit more~

5

Red Arcueid / Warc side swap combo

« on: January 13, 2008, 09:20:50 AM »

I was experimenting with Warc earlier today, and noticed how far j.2c launches other characters and was reminded of V. Akiha's j.c. With that in mind, I ended up with this crossover combo:
[2b 2c j.c air dash (cross under) jump cancel j.b (2 hits) j.2c] which does 3505 on Aoko.

Also, whilst experimenting, I believe I also managed to hit:
[2b 2c j.c air dash (cross over) jump-cancel j.b (1 hits) j.c j.2c] which did around 3668 if I remember it correctly (this was with criticals still on though, so I'm not sure if that's base damage). There's probably a more damaging combo, but my execution sucks, and I'm not even sure how useful this combo is for Warc.

Anyway, here's the replay of the first one I managed to hit while recording: http://rapidshare.com/files/83528284/Rep00.rar

I haven't seen this posted before, nor have I seen this in vids, so hopefully this isn't old hat.

6

Regional Community / Northern California: Berkeley, SF, etc.

« on: January 09, 2008, 04:06:32 AM »

Anyone around...?