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Messages - Shlowpoke

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1
Shiki Ryougi / Re: F-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: May 08, 2011, 02:35:43 PM »
Hey guys, with reference to Shlowpoke's C/F-Ryougi combo vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOzQLK6xQhs), I wonder what's the trick to spacing the tk 236b for the 2way mixup after the rekka knockdown (@ ~1:28). I've seen LEO do it as well, but can't for the life of me figure out how to space it properly.

It's not about the timing of the rekkas, though that may be a possible way to do it. It's been a while since I made the vid, but I think if you do the j.236b slightly later (higher in the jump) you'll go further to the right and cross them up. If it's not that, try angling your jump forward for the TK. (2369b instead of 2368b).

I don't recommend doing this mixup though. It's just flashy. Some characters get up too fast for you to safely attack after landing. I recommend instead playing with rekka knockdown -> dash -> jump straight up and then hold towards -> land+5a/land+2b/airdash back j.b.

Also, are there any tips to getting down the timing to the 236b 236b 236b 2b 5c relaunch for F-ryougi? I can't get the 2b to connect properly consistently D: Thanks!

No. It's really hard. The damage is comparable so I wouldn't even bother trying to do something so impractical in real matches. Just use 2a.

EDIT: I noticed that when I do a tk, it always seems to cancel from a superjump (2369b), yet this is not the case in Shlowpoke's (and LEO's) vids. How exactly is the tk 236b input?

You hold 2 for a second before you do the motion so the game knows you don't want to superjump. Hold it during the previous move.

2
Regional Community / Re: Known Player Compilation
« on: August 12, 2010, 05:57:50 PM »
Handle: Shlowpoke
Main Character: H-Ryougi
Notable Alt's: F-Ryougi
Affiliation: N/A
Predominant Region: NJ/PA
Awards/Top Placement: I just make combo vids
Other Information: Getting into Starcraft 2 and looking for people to practice with. PM me if you're interested. ^^

3
Shiki Ryougi / Re: MBACC Ryougi Discussion Thread
« on: August 03, 2010, 09:16:08 PM »
There was a recent tournament on 8/1 where an F Ryougi player (called "K") took 1st out of 22 entrants, so there's hope yet.

Vids?

4
Shiki Ryougi / Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: June 01, 2010, 07:50:20 AM »
I wouldn't count the 63214 moves. xD

Maybe I'm mistaken but I think the knife hits way before Ryougi lands, so you can't actually take advantage of the +frames.

5
Shiki Ryougi / Re: C-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: May 26, 2010, 09:30:09 AM »
New Advanced BnB for C-Ryougi. Midscreen only

That's pretty sweet that it lines right up on the knife like that. That is definitely the combo I'd use if I was desperate for meter gain, but this one does a bit more damage and still gets you close to the knife:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 6c, 22b, 2a, 2c, 623b, 2c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, sdj.abc, j.236b, dash forward a tiny bit and pick up the knife
(4,720 damage to V.Sion)
+126.3% meter

I find this one a bit easier and it still gives you a decent amount of meter.

6
Shiki Ryougi / Re: Ryougi Combo Videos
« on: May 26, 2010, 09:18:03 AM »
Are you coming up with any more of these?

I don't really have enough new content to justify a new video right now. I started playing around with C-Ryougi and I might have enough new stuff for a video... but it's mostly just flashy combos so far so I don't really see the need. I have a fancy IH combo for F-Ryougi that didn't fit into the last vid, but again it's not really enough.

I do plan to make a big video for all three styles when current code comes out, though. I think I'm just going to save my material for that. Otherwise it would just be a summary video. I need to get my hands on some video editing software that's better than Windows Movie Maker, though. >.<

Oh, and I'm going to need a list of the music you have. I've been liking your picks so far.

Thanks. xD
I don't really have an extensive music collection. I just kinda pick and choose random anime/JRock songs that I like and OCRemix stuff.

If you wanted the names of the music in the videos so far:
Futuristic Imagination - School Food Punishment
Scenario - BeForU
XYZ - High and Mighty Color

7
Shiki Ryougi / Re: F-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: May 14, 2010, 08:30:53 AM »
Alright, thanks a bunch.

So basically using a 623 counter only gets you 3 more active frames while giving you a ton more lag.

Lame.

8
Shiki Ryougi / Re: F-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: May 13, 2010, 04:34:22 PM »
I know this is kind of a lot to ask, but could anyone with frame display post the startup and active frames for all of F-Ryougi's different counters? I was trying to use her 623 series during blockstrings to punish disrespect, but the active frames seemed much shorter than they look.

9
I think I can make it to this. I might bring one or two other people for MBAA.

10
Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: MBAA Tiers
« on: May 12, 2010, 07:21:47 AM »
5b isn't a good antiair, it's only good for catching people as they're jumping out of pressure.  I beat out my buddy trying to use antiair 5b all day.

Have you ever seen the hitbox on 5b with frame display? Ryougi ducks her head down and it hits waaaay out in front of her. It even has clash frames.

Maybe your buddy isn't using it well, or something. If you try to use it when someone is right above you then yeah you're probably going to get hit. But it covers a huge range above and in front of you. Just space yourself right.

Btw, how is her dash godlike?  It seems like the super late cancel point kills it.

It really shines at dashing under an airborne opponent since it's low and covers a lot of ground really quickly.

11
Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: MBAA Tiers
« on: May 11, 2010, 04:57:55 PM »
What the hell happened in this thread? Jesus. I don't usually go on rants, but this deserves it since I used to think F-Ryougi was garbage too.

She definitely has a strong air zoning game, but against some specific characters with no-greenbox air moves, she finds it almost impossible to win.

It sounds to me like you're saying that air zoning is the only tool that F-Ryougi has, and that when she comes up against a character that outranges her, there's nothing she can do. No. F-Ryougi has plenty of tools. Sure, her j.B zoning is great, but she still has things to use in matchups where she's outranged. Look at 5b, 2b, and 22a. 5b is such a ridiculous anti-air. As soon as you get your opponent trying to challenge your j.b you can anti-air 5b them or dash under them and 5b with her awesome dash. 2b has some RANGE and is really fast. 2b, 2c, 3c, rekkas is such a great way to get in. 22a is a super fast projectile with massive frame advantage that also helps her get in when she's outranged.

Shielding isn't a huge deal for F-ryougi, but its moon dependent. If H-Moon shields and you have enough experience/reactionspeed, you can mid parry on reaction for free damage. The same applies to F-moon, if they do their shield counter, else its character dependent. C-Moon is character dependent.

Okay, where the hell did this idea come from? I've been hearing this for a while in relation to H-moon bunker/shield and it's complete bullshit. Show me one player that can actually consistently counter on reaction to getting shielded, especially with F-Ryougi. F has so little time to link her normals together. You pretty much have to press the next button as soon as you've pressed the last. I MIGHT buy this for H-Ryougi normals against F-moon shield counter if you've got great reaction speed and you're really looking for it. But I really don't think this is something you can do without prediction.

EX guard ruins her and anyone who is remotely competent will be doing it. You cannot afford to rely on guard crush. The rekkas especially are mindless to guard crush since they are always mid/mid/mid (the overheard option sucks and the low ender is unsafe on block unless RC'd). For this same reason they are mindless to shield if you try to charge or stagger any. You can always try to mix up the rekka types but the low ender is unsafe on block so it's really too risky.

Well, you're half right. Guard crush isn't really an option unless you're fighting a meterless H-moon. But EX guard does not ruin F-Ryougi. See below for pressure options.

Her complete lack of reversal game means you HAVE to master all of the game's defensive options (bunker, EX guard, shield) and you will probably still do little more than delay your loss against a solid rushdown char like warc. Her best reversal in my experience is TK 236C, which is a pathetically bad choice due to the jump startup.

Well, yeah. You have a point here. She has no reversals. But she has F-moon shield, which is great. If you're looking for a quick getaway, 214c seems to work sometimes, but yeah patience and knowing when to bunker/shield/block is pretty important for any Ryougi. At least she has an anti-A armor 2a with crazy range for poking the holes, right?

She has an extremely solid neutral game, controls space amazingly, does decent damage and surely I don't need to talk about the arc drive. But she has one core problem that completely destroys her at mid-level play, and that is that her rushdown is not scary. Most of her overhead options are unsafe, predictable, or both. The charged 5C is the only thing you have that will still work past scrub level, and many players will still own you for it there. She only truly gets any kind of scary mixup game when in HEAT, and for that reason I never press advantage after knockdown, preferring to escape and charge meter. F Ryougi is basically a shitty unfinished gimmick character that has no reason to scare anyone without MAX/HEAT, and many characters can really hurt her ability to charge meter after doing j.236B. This is my opinion after taking her to several casuals and tournaments over the past year and playing against many people, including a mid-level japanese player and other top players in the UK/EU. I'm probably going to drop her.

Ugh. F-Ryougi's pressure is just as good as say... F-Ries. Rekkas are F-Ryougi's main pressure tool, right? 236a, 236[a], 2a reset. Safe, easy auto-stagger pressure. If you do this every time, OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET SHIELDED. It's the only way to beat it besides DP! So when they start shielding, you don't charge the 2nd hit, or you wait a half a second on the 2a, or you end them like normal with 236a because you have such ridiculous range that being at neutral isn't such a bad thing in the first place. And you also even have 22a for a free dash-in because of crazy frame advantage. Normal string, 22a, dash up 5a, 5a, 5b, 4c, rekkas. Safe way to get in an overhead that leads to more pressure or combo into oki if it hits. All that isn't even taking into account her normal stagger pressure or IH gimmicks. Oh and her airdash j.b at just the right height is a nice double-overhead, too. If you cancel into j.c after the first hit you'll land without it coming out and can go into 2b to keep people guessing.

F-Ryougi has plenty of tools.

And don't be so obsessed with ending your combos with j.236b and charge. F-Ryougi is the only style that can hit with her 2b after airthrow on oki without moving forward, so if you're playing against a character with great air options screw the charge and go for the oki.

The #1 reason above all else is that there is no joy to playing her. When you win, it's purely because your opponent didn't know how to play against her. Once he does, it is nigh-impossible to win unless you are playing a specific matchup where she has complete air dominance.

Well if you play all j.b zoning and durr-hurr rekka pressure into 236b rekka ender air combo style all the time... then yeah she's the most boring, predictable character in the game. Personally, my favorite part about playing her is the oki after a simple combo like 2a, 5b, 2b, 2c, 3c, 236a, 236[a], 214a (have to reverse). You get decent damage plus sandoori or a TK j.236b which-way.

So she has decent, solid pressure that will scrub-out anyone that doesn't know how to shield. She has combos into oki setups. She has good-damage combos in the corner that I find really fun. She has a great arc drive. And most importantly she has air zoning that simply shuts down a lot of characters completely.

I'd say she's pretty damn good.

12
If I show up on Friday can anyone in the area house me for the night? I really don't feel like making a 3 hour trip before noon.

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Shiki Ryougi / Re: C-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: May 03, 2010, 08:05:47 PM »
Could somebody with framedisplay post the hitboxes for C-Ryougi's 5b next to H-Ryougi's 5b? I'd like to see if there's a difference.

14
Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: MBAA Nero
« on: May 02, 2010, 02:21:22 PM »
Wakeup bunker, though I wouldn't use it if it doesn't wallslam since he can probably neutral tech and still combo off ex crows.

After I read your reply, I watched some more videos and saw two different players try dash forward shield on wakeup. Not sure if there's really enough time to do it, but theoretically that would stop the 2a and get you out of ex-crows range.

15
Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: MBAA Nero
« on: May 02, 2010, 08:42:49 AM »
Is there any way out of this arc drive setup?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXup0cLH38U#t=2m38s

16
Kouma Kishima / Re: MBAA: F-Kouma Thread
« on: April 30, 2010, 08:20:37 AM »
Thanks for such a detailed response, Ceehill. You confirmed a few things I was thinking about. I was worried I was missing something because most of the tricks I found felt really gimmicky and unmanly (like pressure into 6c, 22b/421x) and I thought I might be doing something wrong.

But now I see the truth! No other character is straight-up manly enough to run non-stop gimmicks like F-Kouma. :V

17
Kouma Kishima / Re: MBAA: F-Kouma Thread
« on: April 29, 2010, 01:20:50 PM »
What are F-Kouma's pressure options? I'm finding myself at a bit of a loss after I get in, but don't get a hit.

18
Shiki Ryougi / Re: General Strategies (for all moons)
« on: April 28, 2010, 06:18:09 AM »
You sir, are on crack. H-Ryougi has easier than C? On what planet? Maybe if I you consider having to learn different timing and different loops on every single character in the game easier, or you're OK with getting 2500 damage.
The sweep loop is pretty much the hardest thing H-Ryougi can do, and the 63214c 4c whiff ender into air combo is pretty much the hardest thing C-Ryougi can do, imo. Even considering the timing varies on many characters, I find the sweep loop easier, personally. That's pretty much all I meant. Also it seems like H-Ryougi has a little bit more time to link her normals together than C. Not a big deal, though.

(some crazy math shit)

Now, the numbers for 2A look a lot better if you're close enough that you DON'T have to dash in (so why not do 2C3C?), because now it at least beats mashing. However, if you are using the 3C frametrap to go into 2A/5B/overhead, it then loses to DPs and dodges a LOT more.

So, you're pretty much just saying that dash-in 2a after 3c isn't safe, and that 5b loses to sidestep and DPs? Isn't it obvious that dash-in anything can get mashed out, 5b loses to sidestep, and that DPs beat anything except blocking and the occasional 5b clash?

Am I missing something? Maybe I haven't taken enough math classes.

19
Shiki Tohno / Re: F moon Tohno
« on: April 23, 2010, 08:24:47 PM »
Some random stuff I found playing around with him for a few hours:

- Standard BnB seems to be:
2a, 5b, 2b, 5c, 623b, dj airdash j.c, land, 5b, 5c, j.bc, dj.bc, airthrow
4,905 damage to v.Sion
Except it doesn't work on crouching characters, so you have to launch with 2c, 623b, j.c, instead if they're crouching.

- Using 623c in corner combos nets some pretty big damage:
2a, 5b, 2b, 5c, 623c, 5a, 5c, j.bc, dj.bc, airthrow
5,392 damage to V.Sion
(Breaks 6k if started with j.c)

- The 22d cancel for his 22b is awesome. Command grab into dash up 22b which-way seems pretty effective. Command grab into whiff 632b crossup seems cool too.

- Funny gimmick: 236b pressure into normal arc drive. You get out if you just hold jump, but still. xD

- 623a whiff is IH-able for a quick overhead.

- 214a whiff is IH-able for an instant heal.

20
Shiki Ryougi / Re: General Strategies (for all moons)
« on: April 20, 2010, 12:22:11 PM »
I've been meaning to post this for a while:  I came up with a much more effective way to pressure with H-Ryougi.

I noticed that my pressure was really focused on getting as many ground hits as I possibly could while confirming into a combo, and this kept me at a range where it was very difficult to threaten grab or overhead or dash back in to continue pressure without using knife. So my pressure basically lost to patient ex-guarding.

The fix: short pressure strings that end with 3c
The cost: more effort for hit-confirms and slightly less damage

Basic string:
2a, 2b, 3c

After this, if you started it at point-blank, you're close enough to:
1) 5b (safe)
2) dash in and repeat
3) dash in and grab
4) overhead

My new standard pressure string (if I suspect disrespect) is:
2a, 2b, 3c ->
5b (delay)b*, 2c, 3c ->
5b, 5c, 2c, 22a ->
whatever
And at any point I could dash in to grab or reset pressure.

*The delay after 5b is for hit-confirming attempted jump-outs. You can actually delay that second hit of 5b for a pretty long time and still combo.

21
Shiki Ryougi / Re: General Strategies (for all moons)
« on: April 18, 2010, 01:52:38 PM »
For C and H Ryougi, 5B is a great meaty. Beats out 2A mashing, can be spaced to beat/clash with dp. Ryougi is fairly safe using it as a meaty.

I completely disagree. 5b is a quick move that doesn't last very long, and is very laggy. It'll lose to stuff like wakeup sidestep (where it's laggy enough for you to easily get counterattacked afterward) and backdash (which you'll get counterattacked after if they backdashed in the corner).

While 5b has great range, Ryougi's hitbox extends really far forward before the hitbox of the move even comes out, which is very important to keep in mind when you're trying to throw it out at the same time as another shorter-ranged move or out-range a dp.

Saying that it beats 2a mashing isn't really relevant, because a properly timed 2a on oki will beat 2a mashing as well. Clashing dps is pretty baller though, if you can do it.

I think C/H Ryougi's best meaty option is a well-timed 2a, 2b because it'll catch backdashes.

22
Shiki Ryougi / Re: General Strategies (for all moons)
« on: April 16, 2010, 03:34:42 PM »
I'm probably going to get some criticism for this, but I think moving from C to F is okay too. H > F > C, in my opinion.

List of things that C has over H and F:
- Tricky sandoori/4-way oki after 236c
- Usable 5a whiff cancel
- Pseudo reversal with C-style heat activation
- Usable unblockable normals
- Better vertical air-to-ground
- Retarded guard crush strings (need meter)

List of things that H or F do better:
- Midscreen meterless damage (H)
- Projectile zoning (both, but especially H)
- Air to Air (both, but especially F)
- Ground to Air (F - Seriously look at her 5b. She ducks her head down a little and it even has clash)
- Ground to Ground (both, but especially F)
- Horizontal air-to-ground (H and F j.b)
- Solid +frame pressure (H 3c/22a and F 22a/rekkas)
- Meter-building Combos (H)
- Ground overhead (H and F 4c)
- 22c pseudo reversal (H only - The knife will always come out and trade, often leaving you ahead)

Don't get me wrong. I think C is playable and has some pretty cool tools, but a character with a health bar as bad as Ryougi benefits greatly from better zoning, and that's where H and F shine. I personally think their execution is a bit easier as well.

23
Shiki Ryougi / Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: April 04, 2010, 11:45:58 AM »
I haven't seen any yet. :(

Corner:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK j.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 2a (whiff), dash into corner and 6a+b.

Try to push them almost all the way to the corner before you roll. Ryougi's body will cover them and make it really hard to tell if she pushed you all the way to the corner or not.

24
Shiki Ryougi / Re: C-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: April 04, 2010, 10:30:20 AM »
Usually a blockstring like that would involve 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C 236A 236A 214C 22C then I usually go into d.2A repeat, or if I know I'm a little slow, d.5BB so I keep some distance and can't get poked or dp'd. There's also the grab option.

This is part of a really easy guardcrush string against H-Moon that I've been meaning to post.

If you're in MAX and have them in the corner:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 6c, 236b, 236b, 214b, 22c, 5b, 2b, 5c, 63214c, 5c5c5c5c... etc. until guard crush.

If you do it right you'll activate 63214c right before MAX runs out and get to keep your meter. The only place in the string where they can try to shield/dodge/dp is right after 22c. And they could bunker too, of course.

I support using your knife for pressure strings than to add like 200-500 damage to your combo

I think that if you're midscreen, using the knife in combos is the only way to get better-than-average damage, except for using 63214c, which is really hard midscreen.

This is a really easy midscreen combo that does 5.1k to V.Sion for knife and 100% meter.
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22c, 2c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, j.236b

Compare that to the normal ground string, 2c, 6c, j.bc, airdash j.c, dj.bc, j.236b combo, which does 4.3k to V.Sion.

25
Shiki Ryougi / Re: C-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: April 03, 2010, 12:49:35 PM »
Are you guys absolutely sure that 421c can be sidestepped? I haven't done extensive testing or anything, but did you try it after 214 rekka ender like I did in my vid? It really felt like they were stuck in block stun until after I landed, since the 200%-meter H-moon dummy only went into heat after I landed.

Noticed you can do some weird tricks with that move if the opponent is near the corner when I found that blockstring. After 421c hits you can delay the cancel and do j.c to get a weird crossup since it drags them in. Maybe that was only for a short character like White Len though.

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