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When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?

Messages - Magikarp9

Pages: [1] 2
1
In celebration of the much awaited STEAM release of MBAACC, I've decided to highlight some ancient MB CMVs and point out how things have changed and how things have stayed the same. Sadly, embedding videos doesn't quite seem to work here, so you guys will have to bear with my wall of text.

Here's a brief timeline of the various major versions of Melty Blood:

Melty Blood > Melty Blood ReAct > Melty Blood Act Cadenza Ver. A / Melty Blood ReAct Final Tuned > Melty Blood Act Cadenza PS2 > Melty Blood Act Cadenza Ver. B > Melty Blood Actress Again > Melty Blood Actress Again PS2 Ver. > Melty Blood Actress Again Current Code > Melty Blood Actress Again Current Code 1.07 (STEAM)

The game we play today was built upon the foundations of the ReAct era. Comparatively, the original Melty Blood was much more of a Type-Moon visual novel with fighting game elements. ReAct was a huge step forward in terms of design and balance choices for the series.  Comparatively, the initial Melty Blood feels like an amateur MUGEN modification. 

First up, MBR_MOVIE2 by M.O.O.N, circa MBR 2.008; besides the initial combo videos by veteran Guilty Gear player yukinose, this was one of the first MBR CMVs to surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqBITi_RwPw

0:17 – Note the height of Arc’s Airdash cancel! The minimum height was much lower, and only adjusted to modern standards in the Arcade release of MBAC
0:23 – OTG combos also existed, but the rules were much different compared to MBAACC
0:31 – Warc’s 5[c] used to be cancellable and also comboable without the need of specific moves like her Arc Drive
0:37 – Reverse Beat penalty did not exist until the Arcade release as well, as the extreme amount of Reverse Beat used in this combo illustrates
1:01 – Len’s Last Arc could be comboed off fairly easily
1:17 – Due to the extremely low airdash height, one could actually IAD cancel in the middle of a ground combo string and reset the ground normal previously used in the combo
1:29 – In MBR, the newest playable characters were Len and Satsuki, while Aoko and White Len were boss characters
1:34 – Meanwhile, Neco-Arc was a hidden boss character who was not usually accessible by the player
1:53 – Shield bunkers used to put opponents into a comboable state, and offered a non-scaling combo starter to many characters. This was removed in the MBAC era. Wallslams also stunned for much longer than in the MBAC era onwards
2:25 – Previously, VSion was only limited to one of each summon on screen, instead of one summon in total. She also had access to Sion’s whips and was much more of a clone than an alternate character
2:32 – Prior to MBAA, VSion’s last arc was a version of Riesbyfe’s current Arc Drive. It was heavily speculated that Riesbyfe was meant to be a cameo and was not originally intended to appear. Her 623C super was also untechable for an extended period and could be used in combos afterwards.
2:42 – VAkiha’s Last Arc used to be her current Arc Drive. Her old Arc Drive was largely similar to Akiha herself instead.

Next up, MBRMOVIE_12 by M.O.O.N, circa MBR 2.009a; a send-off combo movie for the end of the comparatively broken ReAct era as the new Act Cadenza arcade release was imminent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF4G_Hkkoi0

0:30 – A shield and dodging montage showcasing the shield counters present in ReAct. Crouching Shield Counters were invincible command dashes for the Shikis
0:41 – Reversed controls were a Hisui-only property for the longest time, the dual reverse controls for Neco Arc were only added later on
0:54 – Arc’s j.66c followup was a long untechable wallslam that could be comboed afterwards, Her j.2b was also more akin to a dive kick than its modern incarnation, and would only be fixed after it was used in some infinite combos
1:16 – In ReAct, depleting your HEAT bar would put you at 150% magic circuit. Coupled with the enormous meter gain of many multi-hit specials, combos and loops were much easier to sustain
2:02 – Warc’s shield bunker is used as a untechable juggle to extend her combo here
2:20 – White Len’s boss properties come out on show… No minimum airdash height, EX Ice with minimal startup, and a lack of airthrow animation
2:50 – IAD combos remain in 2.009a, and a full string reset is achieved twice with both a IAD mid combo and a 5a whiff post wallslam to reset normal options.
3:08 – VAkiha’s dashing 2b5bb relaunch was a regular part of her gameplay plan in 2.009a
3:26 – … and her legacy Arc Drive is on display here
3:39 – Sion’s combo options were much nerfed come MBAC, but the origins of MBAA’s j.[C] loops can be found here. The sideswitch from 214b was a feature that was removed come MBAA
4:50 – While Ciel has already used shield bunkers to wallslam twice in this combo, this is the first instance of backairdashing cancelling air normal within a combo.
5:31 – The looseness of the OTG system in MBR is rather evident in this VSion combo. The 2c iad j.c whiff 2c bit of the combo is only loosely replicated in MBAACC with C-Nanaya’s 2c 22a 236c nonsense
6:00 – As absurd as it sounds, backdash cancelling was prevalent in ReAct and most heavily used on both Shikis. 5[c] was also a cancellable big damage hit instead of the unblockable we see today
6:19 – Nanaya 623c loops have existed since the dawn of time and have probably inspired F-Nanaya’s DP loops in MBAA.
6:54 – More OTG relaunches as well as one of the few rejump combos on video in ReAct
7:03 – Grounded Warakia 236a loops have also existed since ReAct, and the massive frame advantage it gives most likely inspired the loops possible on aerial opponents in MBAA
7:19 – In ReAct , Nero’s EX Crows was a near instant persistent 25 hit projectile that would trade  with everything on wakeup.  H-Nero’s  EX Crow Rush is a pale shadow of this original incarnation
7:31 – Satsuki’s grabs didn’t allow for much complex looping in ReAct, as 623c was required for most followups to combo. Instead, 22c untechability was used for combo video combos
8:36 – Because Aoko was a boss character, she was lacking in a ground tech animation and was unable to ground tech unlike other characters. This allows most ground techable combos to be extended and still remain valid
8:50 – Count those EX Cactus hits… Even with all of its nerfs, the venerable cactus remains a strong set up tool today.
10:13 – A demonstration of the infamous Kohaku Drug-On Install into Another Arc Drive setup.

Next on the list is MBRMOVIE_15, circa MBR:FT 2.501a by M.O.O.N .

MBR:FT was a free patch for MBR that brought it close to the arcade release of MBAC Version A, with some differences such as Kouma and Aoko being unavailable. Until the release of MBAC PS2, almost all combo videos were based on this release. Sadly, most combo videos produced in the MBAC PS2 era were hosted on various defunct websites such as Google Video and DivX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYJKbiY4k6g

0:40 – The game finally starts to resemble modern gameplay. The OTG system was first implemented in MBAC/MBR:FT, although gravity scaling was only introduced from MB:AA onwards.
1:33 – The inspiration for half-moon mode’s 1-2-3 combos likely came from Ciel’s 5a6a6a chain, of which the first two parts can be seen within the combo here. The dash link after her 5c5c command chain is also uncommonly seen today, but prevalent in the older versions.
2:29 – Shiki Tohno’s hitbox was ridiculously wonky in MBR:FT/MBAC Ver.A. Wallslams or other forms of forward movement could easily clip into him and cause a 2a to hit crossup, resulting in a infinite.
3:53 – Sion’s 421b loops were limited by the number of 5a/2a/22d cancels you could do in each repetition, but functioned as a clean reset in MBAC. The infinite was infamously used in the first MBAC Tougeki Finals
4:17 – Kohaku’s command grab was freshly introduced in this version. The ability to combo into the grab is only retained by her Half-Moon version today. Her 236c cancel on whiff properties was shared with Ciel’s 22c; both of these unique properties were removed in MBAA.
6:24 – The Tohno j.[C] relaunch combo is on debut here. Despite various adjustments and changes to the character, this combo tool is still available to C-Tohno today
6:31 – The first iteration of a 2c Loop. Affectionately referred to as the ‘Beautiful Legs Combo’, it was the precursor to many other gravity-related loops in MBAA onwards
6:40 – Quite possibly one of the most obscene and epic combos ever recorded in Melty Blood history. It is impossible to replicate today, due to nerfs to both EX Dust and EX Cactus. Comboing into Drug-On Install, then using the meter for an AAD assist is a feat that is difficult to top.
7:24 – One curious feature of this version was that certain characters would have throws that would deal the same amount of damage, regardless of scaling, character defence or reverse beat penalties. Akiha’s ground throw is one such variety.
8:00 – One of the first documented instances of IABD used in combos for air attacks. Perhaps the inspiration for sandoori or other Akahoshi setups later on in the game’s life?
8:25 – Arc demonstrating why her divekick-like version of j.2b had to be modified to her modern version. The fast recovery of the move easily lends itself to infinites such as these.

For a more rounded experience, here’s AVALON by MetalNakahara, with footage from MBR:FT, MBAC Ver.A and MBAC PS2. It is both a tutorial and a combo video, featuring some heavy duty editing and stylistic choices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CkfJZn5w3M

1:13 – One of the defining features of the MBAC era, the bunker cancel. One can kara cancel the startup of a bunker into any command move, but the input can only be accepted during hitstop. Allows for fancy punishes of careless blockstrings that would otherwise be safe.
1:18 – A simple option select that will clash against wakeup heat activations
1:24 – EX Shield into 5a was an assured counter-hit in MBAC. This became dependent on the speed of the normal later in MBAA
1:35 – A safe-jump into bunker cancel punish for a counterhit combo starter
1:55 – One of the unique MBR:FT only colour schemes that never returned, likely due to its similarity to a certain To Heart character
5:17 – A dead-body crossup using the forward momentum of Akiha’s low air flametongue

The final vid for today is 朱い月の輪舞【Last waltz】circa MBAC Ver.B by Crimson Air. It is the 5th in a series of combo videos during the waning period of MBAC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytKaBrnkDdA

1:36 – VAkiha’s 6c loop doesn’t quite exist anymore; neither does the untechable property of the second 2b after a first 2b. Both combo options created unique juggle effects that are only rivalled by F-VAkiha’s combos in MBAA.
1:56 – Linking off C-Sion’s 5 clip warning shot was already possible in MBAC, buffed slightly in MBAA to allow 2b to link, then re-nerfed back to its MBAC frames back in MBAACC
3:16 – Len demonstrating an extreme low air Ice, cancelling all air recovery by landing.
4:16 – The MB:AC Satsuki infinite. Practical in real matchups, character dependent, and likely the main reason MBAA implemented its gravity system and meter scaling system (meter gain while in hitstun increases with number of hits of the combo). Note how Satsuki’s meter goes back into HEAT as she cancels into her EX Grab. The use of 5[c] into 2[c] 2c is also extremely prototypical and reminiscent of Satsuki’s combos later in the series

That’s all the material for today. I hope you guys had a fun trip down memory lane as I did. Depending on your feedback, I may continue to annotate and review other combo videos in my collection. Go forth and enjoy MBAACC’s STEAM release!

Many thanks to Dio and T3U for proof reading my work. Special Thanks to Irysa for independently testing information written within to ensure veracity.











2
Akiha Tohno / Re: Akiha matchups
« on: April 28, 2008, 07:35:19 PM »
AFAIK Akiha's j.a and j.b are fairly decent as air to air normals if preemptively used, their timing's just later than the use of j.c.

IMO Akiha's disadvantageous matchups come from inability to get out of a corner pressure rather than air to air problems. Looking at yuu/yukinose's play I reckon they makeup for her slow air-to-air moves by conceding space, in order to be able to use a/b aerial flametongues safely to move about.

Vs AkaAkiha though, it just looks like Akiha gets completely outmanuvered in every respect. Once she scores a knockdown though things turn easier. Then again, hato's AkaAkiha play is exceptional so we can't really figure what the matchup like is in average hands.

Vs Warakia and Nero, don't you just stay on the ground as much as needed? They're relatively large in the first place and are vulnerable to blockstrings that others are immune to.

3
Len / Re: Blockstring loop
« on: February 06, 2008, 09:13:27 AM »
Don't know if you guys are blind but at least 3 out of 4 times Ren is ending blockstring with a blocked 2a... :psyduck:

4
Those combos are most definitely pioneered by the Japanese.

5
This stuff is too good Spooky. I feel inspired to write more about Nanaya. BTW This should probably wind up as an article. The quality is insane.

6
Akiha's Tea Room / Re: Melty Challenge 02: Hoaaaaaa (Deadline: Oct 10)
« on: September 26, 2007, 08:03:52 AM »
Karp thinks that airthrowing into EX Crow hits is one way to increase HOAA count.
And bonus points given for doing it on kouma probably :psyduck:

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Akiha's Tea Room / Re: Melty Challenge 01! (Deadline: None currently)
« on: September 21, 2007, 06:02:58 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3LJPiuSofM

Combo at 0:43

EDIT: Someone pull that off in Ver.B and solve this challenge please. Karp can't execute

8
Akiha Vermillion / Re: Advanced Akiha V. Combos/Tactics Discussion
« on: August 28, 2007, 07:26:55 AM »
I'm not sure what I'm missing but all the combos seem to omit 5c?

9
Kohaku's Video Room / Re: Cold Shadow: A Nanaya CMV
« on: August 25, 2007, 03:00:44 AM »
IMO, you need to watch more combo movies for more influences instead of taking from MTP only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYDrOjUmlqs <- Another combo video using the same song.
Take note of where they cut stuff in the middle of song(look at 2:12 and how the superflashes sync to lyrics), and how combos tend to start almost mid-action and finish before the characters fully recover. This is one way how fluidity is achieved,

As for the pre-fight loading screens..its good but you're definietly overdoing it; it doesn't even sync with the song properly. Same for the pre-fight 'introduction' scenes.Look at this vid for how its done tastefully imo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH-o3m3Y5NU&mode=related&search=) For similar effect you could do fast cuts involving various Nanaya superflashes.

As for the combos themselves... I guess they're MTP style, bordering on practicality. Its hard to make a combo video without content! Perhaps you could do some 623c loops or xx j.bc j.bc airdash j.b airthrow stuff? What about counterhit combos? Or choreographed 1p/2p sequences?With the new function in 1.03 that is definitely possible now...

All in all, lots that you can improve. Please do better next time^^


10
Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: Calling out VETERU
« on: June 09, 2007, 11:24:34 AM »
If the hate is directed at me, then please be direct.
I find it odd that this is a 'problem', considering that my comments are not taken negatively by the people involved(except bell, but that's my own error seeing Arl's improvements).

I'm not  as interested in being correct but in helping other people improve. If you think my advice is bad for you, I'll kindly refrain from commenting once you have indicated so. Unlike whoever may direct hate at me, I do not share your values. My goals may be related, but they are different in nature. If you wish to improve by other means, then I have nothing else to do but to step aside. Those who do not wish to be helped cannot be helped.

That being said, I recognise that I'm bound to commit errors as well. With new knowledge comes the realisation that old tactics have to be discarded. But I stand by the fact that my commentary comes with best intentions in mind. One-upmanship and 'being better' than you aren't what I'm looking for. Please separate the play from the player when recieving and giving criticism.

11
Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: Calling out VETERU
« on: June 09, 2007, 06:04:44 AM »
Chibi, if I was abit less nice, I would have moved this to Sacchin Toast.

This doesn't really belong here, but since my name got mentioned I won't make a mess so Arl gets accused of favoritism  ::)

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Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: Calling out VETERU
« on: June 09, 2007, 05:10:04 AM »
I'll lol and move on.

13
Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: Bread & Butter Combos
« on: May 30, 2007, 08:31:08 AM »
That setup doesn't work all the time - it can be easily shielded, in fact.
4c guard breaks rarely occur without an active summon out confusing the enemy.

14
Nanaya 2c and Tohno 2c have really different uses.

Closest comparison is that nanaya's 2b does what tohno 2c does except it has lower stun/doesn't sweep.

They serve completely different purposes.

15
Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: Me vs. Turtle
« on: May 28, 2007, 01:05:24 AM »
IRC is the where we all idle and hang out at, so you'll get 'better' responses there.
I don't know, but this thread seems more active than individual character forums.

I have some good working knowledge of Ciel, tinker with Warc, and only know Kohaku from an opponent's perspective, but go ahead and shoot questions/post replays. If I can't help you, I'm sure we someone else can, or at least we can refer you to the Legendary Godly Japanese Masters.

16
Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: Me vs. Turtle
« on: May 27, 2007, 09:58:49 AM »
I have no idea what
Quote
Ren's ball-twirl and Sion's Throw-low kick-knee-low whip/overhead kick
is, but they sure as hell are not infinites.

I don't think you need to learn to bara cancel to beat those. Generic 22c as an EX reversal will beat that if he's just spamming that on you while you block. Properly timed 2a to beat or 4c to clash beats too.

Again, you guys are just using gimmicks. Solid play, even if its simple, will assure you of a win.

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Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: Me vs. Turtle
« on: May 24, 2007, 10:36:09 PM »
There's no way that blocking gains meter faster than the person attacking, unless you're doing like EX Swords.

When I say to use 214a to counterhit->ex hiero him, you don't do it in response, you use it to encourage him NOT to randomly flamepit unless safe, meaning you do it as a pressure tool.

Learn your safe strings and your ambiguous strings. Multi A Hiero does not work at all - cut out the gimmicks and just smack him down. Your opponent is playing supremely poorly.

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Melty Blood Auditorium / Re: Me vs. Turtle
« on: May 23, 2007, 11:48:55 PM »
You're contradicting yourself actually.

When you dash in, does he 2a you immediately?If so, do dashing 4c, its an easy way to beat that cleanly.
Oh, wait, you said he's a turtle, then dash in and just throw his ass.

Oh, he does EX flametongue as a reversal?Empty chain your whiffed 2a into EX Hiero then!

Pits?Did you know you have normal swords?214a is untechable on counterhit and combos into EX Hiero even.

Hmm...why doesn't he sound so hard afterall?

19
Maybe some japanese players can correct me , but Ruu's teammates depend on him way too much, I feel. They're really not that good. Somehow..their not-that-good play seems to have infected SBT too. AI's warc is far mroe slick.

Kudos to ryu, lucky star, and the ciel(what's her name?) their play was top tier! of course there's the crazy cat...

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Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: Setups for EX Crow
« on: April 24, 2007, 03:09:07 AM »
<Magikarp9> http://www.a-cho.com/ac/mov.html
<Magikarp9> holy holy shit
<Magikarp9> lucky star is good
<Magikarp9> arl needs to pull some stuff off him
<Magikarp9> double overhead tick into throw
<Magikarp9> wait
<Magikarp9> single overhead into double overhead threat(whiffed) into throw
<Magikarp9> whoa setup into j.c combo out of corner except he does airthrow throw back into corner intead of j.c
<Tropsy> lol lucky star, he's obviously an emissary of kyoani
<Tropsy> "lucky star is good" "MUST DOWNLOAD"
<Magikarp9> then 236c 2a(whiff) 236b iad j.a 214b(B crow connects) 421c into guardbreak/counterhit since opponent gets jumpy
<Magikarp9> man someone needs to tell that to arl
<LoliSauce> lol, as if Arly's not winning enough west coast tourneys already =P

Just posting first since I don't want to forget this. Will elaborate later when I get around to it:D

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Kohaku's Video Room / Re: Shakujii Kouen GameCenter
« on: April 05, 2007, 05:46:29 AM »
Nice find.

How did you find this? Would like to know.

22
Kohaku's Video Room / Re: Ver.b2 new stages
« on: April 04, 2007, 09:38:14 PM »
Actually, the BURNING Kouma stage still exists.
BUT, the cooled down stage is for the special 'boss fight' battle when you fight as nanaya vs kouma in story mode.

Obviously, this stage was selected...instead of the original

23
Shiki Nanaya / A Nanaya guide(of sorts)
« on: March 10, 2007, 04:33:00 AM »
This guide is a work in progress and will be edited repeatedly.

Nanaya as a character is best described as....misunderstood.
He exemplifies the system of Melty Blood, whiff cancelling, reverse beating, and chaining his 2as into 5as and vice versa.

The US(at large) considers him a strong (yet?), scrub character.
The Japanese instead think of him as average but underplay him.

By no means can I assert to everyone that Nanaya is top tier, but as a Nanaya player of some years, I hope to clarify misunderstandings and foster more Nanaya players in the future. This is a collection of my knowledge, taken from my own play, vids, and consultations with other players.

NORMALS

5A
-A fast(4f) anti air normal.
-Does NOT typically hit crouchers unless they do a move that makes them huge
-Has the distinction of being one of the fastest recovering 5as (14f), giving Nanaya whiff cancels that are 1-2f faster than other people.
-Airunblockable, normally used as antiair after a shield, or as precision antiair for CH. Spamming 5a is not usually good unless you're using it to gain reaction time to link into a more damaging air combo.
-Has unusually long range, extending to the tip of his finger(Hitbox was slightly nerfed in Ver.B), allowing him to beat attempts to jump out.
-Viable tactic of such is to dash in with option select 5a, then either empty chain into another normal, or dash throw after the 5a recovers
-Can be shielded high OR low
-Hits mid

5B
-An average speed normal
-Does NOT hit most people crouching at the tip of its hitbox(but it will hit people standing/in the air), thus must be used semi-deep to hit crouchers
-Has a significant amount of shield frames(all  frames except the first in its startup) before the hit connects
-Does NOT prorate, thus is a damaging combo starter IF you do connect it
-Safe on block(-1)
-Airunblockable
-Any B input during the first 7(NEEDS CONFIRMATION) frames of the move will result in the command move extension 5b. Any B input after that will result in the actual move coming out, and the ability to perform the command move extension 5b will be removed in this time period.
-This is important as doing 5b2b(late) is a powerful Nanaya poke.
-MUST be shielded High
-Hits mid

5B -> 5B
-Command move extension to 5B
-Requires 5b to be inputted fairly quickly after the first 5B connects(on block OR hit)
-Launches on hit
-DOES NOT have special whiff cancel properties like Tohno Shiki's 5B -> 5B
-Hits Mid
-Can be charged
-Not cancellable on block

5B -> 5(B)
-Command move extension to 5B
-Hits HIGH(OVERHEAD)
-Special cancellable on BLOCK OR HIT
-Launches on hit
-Untechable on hit(for set amount of frames or 100% untechable?Needs checking)
-Typically cancelled into 22c

5C
-Heavy hitting normal
-Can be charged
-Has certain shield frames(very minimal, 2 only) in its startup(frames 2-3). These shield frames are extended if you hold onto the [C] button and attempt to charge 5C
-Easily hits most crouchers and attacks that bring characters below their crouching animation height
-Moves Nanaya forward significantly on connect
-Deceptive amount of hit frames. Has only a very short window where it hits(3 frames) but creates a huge amount of hitstop when it connects.
-Has a massive amount of cancellable recovery frames
-Unlike most moves(as of Ver.B), has some uncancellable recovery frames at the end of it
-Whiff cancelling 5c is +3f
-As a level 3 move, prone to being shield bunker canceled/shield bunkered if predictably used
-Must be shielded HIGH
-Hits MID

5[C]
-Hits HIGH(OVERHEAD)
-Juggles on hit
-Has some shield frames in the middle of the move's startup

2A
-A decent-speed poke(5f) IT IS NOT AMONG THE FASTEST
-For a A move, has extremely long range
-Use off dash momentum for options
-Does NOT hit low
-Can be shielded high OR low

2B
-A decent-speed poke(7f)
-Has deceptively long range and is out for a long time(lots of active frames for a B move)
-Leaves you at neutral when whiff canceled(true +/-)
-Moves Nanaya forward slightly on connect
-Forms the basis of his pressure game
-AirUnblockable
-Hits LOW
-Must be shielded LOW

2C
-A very long slide kick
-Lasts ridiculously long and has large duration where it hits people
-Unlike most moves(as of Ver.B), has quite some uncancellable recovery frames at the end of it
-Moves Nanaya forward dramatically, even on whiff
-Most common move used to punish groundtech
-Airunblockable
-Works well as anti-air as its hitbox is extremely low and can hit people when they land and forget to block low
-Hits LOW
-Must be shielded LOW


That's all I have for now, more later

24
Akiha's Tea Room / Re: Hey, who likes Fate: Stay Night?
« on: March 09, 2007, 07:49:21 AM »
idiots.

Its obviously ShirouXBerserkerXArcherXLancerXKotomine

25
Go team tuna melt

Just don't eat the karp

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