Arizona Phoenix Valley - MBAACC - We paid for netplay.

[Tempered]

Its more that I don't feel the need to practice P4U. its just matchups and training mode isn't going to help with that. I've practiced Melty more than P4U since its released.

[COD3player]

Well, in general fighting games are really about the matchups. You have to know them to succeed, there's no way around it. I guess this all kinda ties in to Tag 2 as well. The game not only requires you to know your character(s) very well but also the opponent's. It's not as easy to punish in a 3D game due to the sheer number of moves each character has and the punishes are not nearly as obvious due to the different blockstun animations. Then you have certain strings where you can duck in between moves and then punish. I guess that's why the game can also be a turnoff. You're not just learning your own characters, you're practically learning everyone else's too. And with this many characters, and not having a realtime frame data display, it feels like it's a lot more work than it should be. But I guess we may have been spoiled by the fact that we get in-game frame data at all. Frame data, in general, was hard to come by unless you had the mook for those games. What's kinda surprising, is that TZ actually has complete frame data for TTT1 and T4, but nothing else.

I'm not surprised the Asuka section of TZ is filled with clutter just like Jun's. To say that many people play that team is an understatement. I know we've discussed this before but I feel like I need to put it in writing just because. Playing two characters with near identical movesets is a double-edged sword, one that does more harm than good imo. It irks me how the guide says X character is a good complement for Y character of similar fighting style. You can't really be a good complement if your strengths and weaknesses are almost identical. Yes, you don't have to significantly change up your gameplan when switching to that other character, but at the same time, neither does the opponent. I think the only thing that a similar character complements is the player's ineptitude at being able to play another character. But that's just me.

I get the feeling that the next game we'd all end up playing down the road is Chaos Code. We all have at least some interest in playing it. I still stand by what I said about my character selection. :|

I'll see you guys later today.

On a side note, Azure Wanderings is NOT moe. I'm willing to bet people just looked at my user icon, assumed it was me, and clicked re-tweet. People still actually do that. wtf

[Dipstick]

On a side note, Azure Wanderings is NOT moe. I'm willing to bet people just looked at my user icon, assumed it was me, and clicked re-tweet. People still actually do that. wtf

This is about as true as me not being an honest-to-God giant pervert.

[COD3player]

Oh come on, your custom costumes disagree. As do the rest of us.

If my evaluation said tsundere instead of moe, I'd have agreed because I feel that way towards some things. But I'm just going to leave it at that.

[COD3player]

Man, all the talk about T6 kinda made me wanna play it again. Like I said earlier I didn't really get to play it much against anyone so I was relegated to dabbling with characters in training mode for the most part. But there are things I liked in T6 more than I do in Tag 2: more varied stage design, rage is easier to work around, more robust customization system, replay saves, my main is top tier/possibly top 3. I can bring my copy and I suppose we could scrub around with it for a little bit. I'm not keen on just going at it 1v1 in Tag 2 because rage is likely to come twice per round. I also remembered Tempered said he wouldn't play Xiaoyu in T6. lol Only problem I have is, the majority of the characters I play in Tag 2 aren't in T6.

"Why did YOU choose Jun, H-F?"

Since we're on a 3D fighting game binge right now, a challenge has been set forth: I'll try to learn DOA and Carlos will try learning VF. When starting my venture, I've chosen to avoid Pai (for now at least) for several reasons: 1) I already play her character in VF, which means the learning curve is lowered since I wouldn't have to learn a movelist from scratch. So that would be a copout. 2) It doesn't feel right to play a VF character in DOA (starting out). 3) I feel like it would be easier to learn the DOA engine with a DOA character, and using Pai would create a mental block because I'd be too caught up trying to think too much in VF terms. I suppose once I get a feel for the engine as a whole (and haven't given up by that time), I'll start using her.

Sooooooo...my character of choice for this venture is Kasumi. I'd play Hayabusa for his OG Ninja Gaiden costume, but I can't get over the fact that he can't use his sword, and that's the Hayabusa I grew up with. Yeah his costume is blue, but so is hers. And besides, who plays DOA for the guys?

I'll see you guys again later today. May try to get there a little earlier so I can leave earlier as well. Work obviously, but I'll be enjoying an extra hour of sleep that morning.

[Dipstick]

If Ryd really is serious about trying to learn VF, I have hours upon hours of tutorial videos for him... just about the general game system. There's not nearly as much character-specific stuff though (and that's just as much my fault as anyone else; every time I look at my notes for an Aoi tutorial I go back and forth on planning, it ends up looking like 2+ hours of footage and scares me off.)

I'm not keen on just going at it 1v1 in Tag 2 because rage is likely to come twice per round.

I'm pretty sure rage rules revert to T6's rules in a 1v1 match (remember, there's no life regen and no tag assaults).

[COD3player]

lol yeah there's HOURS of tutorials for VF, but not so much for character specific stuff. The game has frame data in training mode, but VFDC has complete frame data for the game and you can filter it too so you know what's useful for punishes.

I wasn't aware that rage rules in Tag 2 revert to T6's for 1v1 since I've never done it. lol But one thing I forgot to mention, is that T6's rematch option is INSTANT unlike Tag 2's.

[COD3player]

GGs in Tag 2 as always. The late night matches were pretty funny. It's always fun to just screw around with random characters or other people's teams (which is what we did) when it's almost the end of the day and we're just winding down. I can honestly say that I was having a good time. I wouldn't mind doing it again, I mean it kinda helps you learn the other character's options in a way. Let's not even begin to count how many fraudulent lows or WR+3's I ate during that session. But it's great to just let loose and explore other characters all the while shooting the breeze. A lot of silly stuff will happen, but what can you expect? Sadly I missed the Battle Between the Bears (BBB). I completely reversed their special throw, which goes to show you how much I've played the bears. :| They make great targets for wall combos though.

And I got my salty runback match. As P.Jack, use your superior range to keep Steve out of his range so he can't spam his punches. So pro.

I checked the results for Tag 2 at MLG. 2nd place went to the Korean player Help Me, and what was his team of choice? Well, it was none other than......Bruce.....&.......Lee. Corny jokes aside, I see that team being pretty legit. Both characters can wall carry for days.

[Ryd]

Playing as a character is one of the best ways to learn how to play against said character.  Doing virgin team swapping matches probably isn't as good since your game will have a lot of holes (unless it's Alisa or something, in which case db+3, df+4, and b+1 -> WS 1+2/FC 1+2 will take you far) and/or there's a chance you may end up doing terrible things that don't really teach you anything since you'll never see them (half of Alisa's moveset )

I also just wanted to address something that Dippy commented on over the weekend: I actually do enjoy playing most fighters regardless of how I'm doing in them.  I'm usually difficult to read (as a person, not necessarily with in-game decisions) simply because that's just how I am.  If I don't enjoy playing a game (or don't even think I will, like AP), I won't play said game.  As for playing against people; the only time I'd dislike playing against someone is if I actively dislike that person (which is actually pretty rare, and it's usually pretty easy to tell if I dislike someone).  There are certain characters in games that I dislike playing against, but that has no reflection on the player (with the possible exception of thinking said player is a scumbag on some level for picking characters like that (hi, H-F (j/k  ))).

I don't actually expect to win a whole lot in games that I haven't put real time into when playing against people who have played more and/or have stronger fundamentals, and there are only 3, maybe 4 games that I can honestly say I ever made a serious effort (read: actually put in semi-crazy amounts of research/practice) to learn: SSBM, SC2, GG, and MBAA.  Melee and SC2 were learned up in AK, and only Melee had a single skilled player to throw down with, so what I was able to learn there was kind of sketchy at best (though I was told my Samus was fairly solid~goodish, albeit archaic).  GG is mostly the AZ community, and MBAA is...you guys.  Honestly speaking, I was/am pretty happy with the overall progress I made with MB; that I was able to give a fair amount of people whom I really had no business beating (guys who'd put a lot more time into the game, were more familiar with it overall, had more solid matchup exp, etc.) a run for there money was kind of surprising for me, and I really have no complaints about that.  /tangent

On a more relevant note, I'll probably pick up VF sometime this weekend after I get paid.  If you guys want to link worthwhile tutorial vids and whatnot, I'll probably make an effort to start getting into that this week in preparation for the actual game.  I'm not completely sold on any particular character yet, but S.Rims is currently the top contender unless I find someone I absolutely love.

[COD3player]

Virgin team swapping? I like the sound of that. lol I know it's not the greatest way to learn how to play against those characters, but you gotta admit, it's kinda fun and a great way to let loose after all the serious matches.

I suppose I'm the same way to an extent. I've always like fighters in general. Granted I do like some more than others. Naturally, if you like a game enough, the inclination is to find more information about it so you can explore and improve. How far you go with it is ultimately up to you. I don't think a game is taken too seriously unless you enter a tourney for it imo, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The games we've been playing recently are ones we haven't invested too much time into more or less. So it wouldn't really be fair to have such high expectations for ourselves. For me, fighters stop being fun/enjoyable when you have no one else to play against.

Oh, and if you wanna talk about scumbags, none of us have taken up the Lars/Leo team yet. Lars was one of the characters I dabbled with back in T6 (I was a training mode warrior) but have zero knowledge about Leo.

Regarding VF, you're pretty lucky that it's $15 on PSN, more if you intend to buy costume packs ($5 per character/ $15 per costume bundle). I'm sure you'd have fun with the costume edit mode, and since the complete bundle is no longer available, I'd suggest waiting until you've fully decided on a character before buying their item pack. dippy and I will probably be on VF again this weekend so you can use that as a chance for a preview I suppose.

I also remember some time ago you asked us who is the "flashiest" character in the game and Tempered and I suggested Lei-Fei (S.Rims) and Brad (Thai boxer). You've already seen S.Rims and I think Brad is one of the character's who you tried out in command training. Brad is all about his style and impressing the ladies, cheesy voice and all.

Match vids of above characters:
Lei: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUKB09AMcVU
Brad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdVMqid_gic
May not be the best matches, but they're something. :|

As for VF tutorial vids, here's one that EVERYONE should start with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boM7T3BWewY

Be prepared for one of the longest single segment tutorials for a fighter EVER. It's almost 3 hours long! So you might wanna grab some food while you're at it. I watched in 3 sittings back when it was first released. Thankfully the main sections are time indexed in the description.

virtuafighter.com (aka VFDC) has complete and neatly organized frame data for every character including a very nifty filter option.

On another note, I'm trying to snag a used copy of DOA5, but even used copies still sell for a grip.  Maybe it's time I used some of those Amazon gift cards I've stockpiled at work?

[Akujiki]

oh shit what am I doing here 

How's life in Arizona?

[Ryd]

We've moved into the third dimension, as you may have noticed.  How's the knee?

[Akujiki]

3d pig disgusting etc etc

Took the cast off yesterday, got a bind for it, started rehabbing, so hopefully it'll be back to normal within a month or so.

I should watch that VF5 beginner's primer.  I'm really interested in learning the game but god damn there's so much to grasp just to start off and not having folks around to talk to about it is rough.

[COD3player]

Yeah, a lot of the tutorial videos are about system mechanics. And that primer video is done well. I just remember the time indexes weren't there when I first watched it. But I watched in hour increments so it wasn't so bad. There is a lot to know about the system but thankfully it makes a lot of sense once you see it in action. VFDC is the best source for info and thankfully they've got frame data for everyone. Granted I wouldn't be surprised if some of the character forums were a bit cluttered.

[Akujiki]

That's the other thing that I'm a bit worried about.  With Melty, frame data was important but I could get by at least decently without knowing it, but VF seems almost entirely rooted in knowing frame data - both on your character and the rest of the cast.  That's a pretty big barrier to overcome.

I'll definitely be giving it another shot after I get the basics down but I'm not sure I'll ever get to a point that could be considered "good".

[Ryd]

Not nearly as bad as Tekken due to having a much smaller roster with much more accessible frame data, which makes the whole thing a lot easier to work with.

[COD3player]

I wouldn't worry about getting "good" at VF when starting out because it's pretty well-established that it's not an easy game to pick up. And while you do need to know frame data for both your character and the rest of the cast, it's not nearly as bad about it as Tekken as Carlos said. The roster is smaller, frame data is more accessible, and hell one of the members of VFDC even uploaded videos for EACH character showing their most commonly used moves and their frame data. So you can apply what frame data you know about your character and use it in the context of the rest of the cast. VF may be difficult to play, but it's not too difficult to understand. It's just a matter of applying all the information you find. Tekken is a much easier game to pick up at lower levels because you can find top 10's, learn some combos here and there, and if you're movement is decent, you already look semi-competent. Which kinda sums up how I play the game, and I think it shows. It's just that when you take it to the higher levels, is where it becomes more difficult because of the lack of frame data, in a game where punishes are so important. Then add on the fact that you have to learn 2 characters (since no one really uses solo anymore) in a game of 60 characters and you've got more work ahead of you than you may think. Oh, and throws are more or less useless at high level too. I think Bamco really needs to do something how about the throw system in their games. Throws are clearly designed to break an opponent's defense but if it's too easy to escape a throw, what's the point? They oftentimes put you at disadvantage too.

And regarding Melty, I'll admit that I studied NO frame data whatsoever. Maybe for a few moves here and there, but I never did anything too in-depth with it. I feel in 2D games, it's a lot easier to grasp what moves are punishable simply because there are much fewer moves by comparison. Bottom line, if something is punishable by 2A or some equivalent, the move is deemed unsafe and you can work on optimizing damage from there. No need to learn a dozen different punishes for certain moves and all that really. Punishing in 2D games just feels more obvious than it does in 3D.

[Ryd]

I think I might put Rims in a sakkat, that way he can be like the poverty/swag member of the Storms from Big Trouble in Little China.  These things matter.

[COD3player]

lol I honestly thought you'd have gone with costume Type E (coat) or S (suit).

GGs in Tag 2. I felt like I was a little off with my main team because I hadn't used them in what feels like forever. I felt like I was more on point with the Miharu/Marshall team. Then again for the 2nd set of matches, we were playing on the Philippines stage where the walls are all kinds of fucked up. It seems like all the console stages that don't have obvious square/rectangle layouts have those messed up walls. If anything, I'm somewhat happy that I was landing the chicken more consistently and the only reversals I got hit by were the several times I failed to punish a raw tag because I was too slow. I still failed to punish some moves optimally which was pretty meh, but that just comes with time. I also didn't want to have to rely on raged Laws to bail me out of trouble which is why there were times when I was just being stubborn and kept my point character in. Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't. I just remember in the first set of matches, I landed a TotD kick and a thrust kick, both WITHOUT rage and it was like 70% of a lifebar. Dunno how that happened. No virgin team swap for me this weekend. lol I'll be down for that next weekend if anyone else is. It's just fun. Plus I think I may have used up all my energy for the "serious" matches we just had. :|

I hope everyone learned from that video tutorial about getting up. Bottom line, tech roll every chance you get, even if you're not sure if the hit that knocked you down can't be tech rolled. It's the fastest way of recovering rather than just falling down, not being able to move for a bit, and then trying to back roll. Also remember to use side rolling while you're lying down to get the opponent to whiff an attack so you can get up safely. Pressing tag as soon as you hit the ground can work too but it's very risky because it's more or less the same as a raw tag.

And while I'm picking up Black Ops 2, it does not exempt me from the "challenge" from earlier. I'll have to do my research and command training once I receive DOA5.

[Ryd]

Working on getting into the right mindset for BlOps.  Probably won't go in on it (if I do) until next week though.

[Dipstick]

All of AZ is going full e-sports now? RIP

Sorry about not sticking around longer, but I felt like crap that night. That and I think between watching that one sod play through Nightmare House and all of the steak fries, it put me to sleep. I wanted to play something, even if they ended up with me throwing a controller at the wall.

Tempered/H-F/Ryd, I still need a name for the channel.

[COD3player]

Are we possibly going to have a 4-man team for BlOps 2? If so, I never thought I'd never see the day that we, a bunch of Melty players, would be playing this game. lol As much as I have played CoD, fighters are still a higher priority on my list of games so don't think I'll be getting bored of those any time soon.

dippy you did check out kinda early last night. We went in on those steak fries, but that's the only way to go. As for a name for the channel, no moe robots in CoD so that's out of the question.

I got a text message from Gamestop saying that my copy will be available at 12:01 am but midnight purchases require check-in prior to 9pm? But I don't wanna be there until 1 am! I suppose maybe I can go check-in, then go back at 1 am. Though I get the feeling there will be people camping out even before then.

[Dipstick]

H-F, are you coming by here tomorrow after work? For... well... you know. 

[COD3player]

Assuming I don't get blown up Michael Bay style when I go to the 1 am release, then I'll be there. Probably will be too tired to play it when I get back though. I get out of work a little earlier than I normally do as well.

This clip almost makes me wanna run snipers regularly. Almost. Assuming the hit detection isn't like BlOps 1. www.youtube.com/watch?v=k05_ikZJdQU

[Ryd]

swag swag swag swag f+3:3:3