hentai
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?

Author Topic: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference  (Read 12101 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ultima66

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
  • Magic Circuits: 16
    • View Profile
MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« on: April 23, 2009, 01:06:37 PM »
As if Sacchin section didn't have enough threads already, here's another one. MBAA Sacchin is totally different from MBAC Sacchin so just thought people might like a reference thread for what she can do.

General-

Superjumps - This is NOT like MBAC superjump. Your momentum dies after a point, and using an attack completely kills your momentum. You can't follow up 22C with superjump j.[C] any more because of this. At distances where her old superjump would go into 4-way, you won't make it all the way now.

Dash - She has a real dash now. Fully cancellable, she no longer has to rely on only IAD j.C to get in. This gives TONS more freedom. Off a whiff cancelled 2C 5A, you can dash 2AA 5B 2C whiff and repeat, IAD j.B/C, dash 2A tick throw, dash 2C, etc. She has REAL blockstring options now, and a bit more combo possibilities because of this. Get creative.

Air Dodge - This is amazing. This replaces her need of superjump airbackdash for oki. Air dodge DOES turn you around if you air dodge and end up behind the opponent, and it WILL NOT TURN YOU AROUND UNTIL YOU COME OUT OF IT. This means it can create some really hard to see crossups where you airdodge a decent distance in front of them and come out just behind them turned around. It keeps some of your horizontal momentum and has a set vertical momentum. Remember, Half moon loses a lot of guard bar strength for using this and shield, Crescent not so much. This will barely have an effect on your guard bar strength in Crescent.

IAD - This is not going to be used as much any more. IAD j.B is still strong, as is IAD j.C, but you can mix it up with dash now. 496 of course is still good to be able to do even with air dodge, because it's a faster way to turn around in the air than airdodge. IAD is now doable with 96, from what I hear. Just keep that in mind.

Normals-

5A - Same as always. Works as antiair somewhat, MBAA Guide Book says 4f startup and neutral on block, which is always nice. Still the best attack to whiff cancel into, total frames for startup/active/recovery is 1 less than 2A. Oh, it's not really neutral on block apparently. Guidebook numbers go by advantage if the attack hits on the last active frame as a meaty. If it hits on first active frame, it's actually -2. Level 1/2/3 attacks now have 1 less frame of blockstun according to this book.

5B - Same as before, mostly. It has reach and is 700 filler damage in any combo. It doesn't clash any more, as far as I can tell, which actually usually is a good thing. Because of it moving you forward if you cancelled the clash into 5A/2A before, you might move back and they wouldn't hit, and her other attacks were usually too slow to beat whatever the opponent cancels the clash into. 9f startup, 7f active just like before. It's -1 if it hits on the last frame, meaning it's like -7 if it hits on the first frame. Not that it's normally ever left out without cancelling regardless.

5C - Again, same as before. Still useful to whiff cancel into 5A. Nothing I need to say about it that doesn't already apply to MBAC, so it's still just as mediocre and not that useful. Doesn't even have real combo uses now because 3C replaced them.

5[C] - This is actually useful now, I guess. It DOES hit as an overhead now, but if I'm reading the guidebook correctly, this actually comes out 3f slower than 214B? Althought I always thought 214B was slower than 29f in MBAC. Anyways it's a 32f overhead with an untechable launch. Whiff cancelling into 5A on block gives +1 frames, so it's at least much safer than 214B and rewards you much more. Also it's used in Sacchin's impossible BnB.

2A - Same as always. Only difference is the universal 1f less blockstun. Same startup, active, recovery. This does not hit low.

2B - Again, just as useless. 600 damage combo filler from point blank. It doesn't prorate, frames are the same.

2C - I don't know if this is different because I can't tell how the framedataviewer works with charge moves exactly, but this is 5f startup now. This is actually fast enough to beat out pretty much every other B and C move and trade with half the 5A/2As. Of course, same universal combo starter. Always cancel this into something, just like in MBAC (I don't know if anyone else didn't before, but when I was learning to not 214A after every combo I kept leaving this unwhiffed and I could get counterhit by every 2C during recovery since it's so disadvantageous on block).

2[C] - Looks like a really useful stagger now. It gives +3 frames on block apparently. There's nothing in particular that applies to this that doesn't apply to 2C besides you can stagger by holding C pretty well just like in MBAC.

3C - Don't use it in blockstrings, please. It's a tremendous combo starter that's probably much better than 5C was at the job, but it's very unsafe on block and not normal cancellable. On block you're forced to take a counterhit, do 214A (-5 frames), 236A (-4 frames and pushes them far away), or 22A (-11 frames).

3[C] - This is much better for blockstrings. It's only -1f hitting on the first frame, and gives advantage if it hits later. Launcher (not sure how low it's techable if at all, and usually hits counterhit anyways), and goes far enough that it punishes pretty much every backdash. 3C knocks them down like 2C, this actually LAUNCHES high into the air like Nanaya/Tohno 5BB. EDIT: This is completely untechable. 2C will hit after it.

j.A - Same as always. Very fast air to air, gives a combo on counterhit most of the time, extremely good after an EX shield.

j.B - Same as always again. 7f startup is okay, decent hitbox, her most useful air to air attack, just like in MBAC. Easier to get a counterhit combo off of than j.A I believe.

j.C - Best air to ground. 7f for a C move is actually good now as opposed to okay for a B move. Lots of damage and easy to combo off of air to ground. Still ground techable whether on counterhit or not from the air, and groundslams, so try not to use it air to air much. 200 less damage apparently, but that's barely significant.

j.[C] - Hey it's her most useful combo filler now. Prorates 50% and does 1400 damage (I guess this is what they changed in ver A because it probably prorated less and still did full 2100 it used to do in MBAC in vanilla MBAA, and 623[A] probably didn't prorate as much). Don't use it normally. It's a free combo but it's stupid to try to get to actually hit. You can jump cancel this on hit or block, unlike with any of her other aerials. On hit it goes into jump cancel another j.[C].

Throw - Just as bad properties if it does hit. Apparently all throws are now 3f startup, though, which makes them better. It'll do some damage and sure it's a tick throw, but it's not nearly as good as a lot of other character's throws. If you don't NEED the meter, EX Bite is always tons better.

Air Throw - Much worse than before. They don't bounce, so you don't get 4-way any more. On the other hand, yes, it's a 2f attack air to air that can't be shielded and pretty much beats everything else if you're in range, just like every air throw. If you land it, it's some damage. At least it's not techable like Wara's horrible airthrow.

Shield Bunker - Nothing to see here. Same as always, can't be Baraed, still crappy. They're generally terrible for everyone outside of Half moon, and Sacchin isn't an exception. It has uses to get out of blockstun, but it sure as hell isn't as good as Half moon Bunker or Alpha Counter or Dead Angle Attack.

Specials-

236A - Blockable ground grab. Meh, same as before, don't use it. It's not very unsafe, but has no actual blockstring uses and isn't a good punish for anything.

236B - Unblockable ground grab. Well I can't say it's useless. Same as before, 31f grab that leads into a decent combo if you have meter. Choco blockstrings, anyone?

236C - EX ground grab. It has a vacuum effect like 623C now. I haven't really seen it used at long range, but I assume the effect means the range isn't horrible now. Maybe it's a strong long ranged heat punish, but it still has the same problems with being pretty slow and disadvantageous on block.

623A - Uppercut launcher/Antiair grab. Sacchin swings her arm up in an uppercut. It's a weird move. When the opponent is low to the ground, it launches. I don't know the properties of it, but no one ever uses it for launch over 623[A]. When the opponent is high enough in the air, it grabs them, then tosses them maybe 2 body lengths away behind her. It's totally untechable on the throw, and gives you a strong okizeme. Also, unlike her old 623A, when you throw, you CANNOT OTG them.

623[A] - Similar to the above, but this time the low launcher is what you want. It leads into her BnB. If you manage to hit with this when they are high enough, it will grab them and toss them down right in front of you. As with the above, unlike her old 623B, you CANNOT OTG after this, meaning it's pretty useless for the grab except for some weaker oki.

623B - Antiair grab. This is exactly the same as MBAC Sacchin 623A, I believe. 8f startup, 8f active (Yes, same as MBAC). If it hits, she'll throw the opponent a few body lengths behind her. Airtechable, but if they don't tech you can dash up OTG them.

623[ B ] - This is the same as MBAC Sacchin 623B. Except it actually comes out 1f faster. 14f startup, 2f active (MBAC was 15f startup 2f active). If it hits, she throws them straight down in front of her. OTG 5B/2C/5C or whatever into 623B (MBAC 623A remember) or 623C just like in MBAC. 5B as far as I can tell now DOES hit on every single character while they're knocked down by this and leads into 623C. Excuse the notation, I don't want everything to become bold.

623C - EX Antiair grab. Same as MBAC. 8f startup, 2f active, 34f recovery (more? less? I don't know, 623C's frames are weird in the framedataviewer). Groundbounces, untechable, lots of damage, her biggest combo enabler, sort of. Since she actually has a meterless BnB in this game, you don't need to rely on this nearly as much. Then again, the meterless BnB is impossible, so maybe you do. It should be noted that you CANNOT dash under the opponent after doing this any more, for whatever reason. You'll push them along with you. In MBAC because her dash was stupid, this was never useful. In MBAA where this might have come in handy, it's not doable any more.

214A - Forward moving punch. High reach, jump cancellable on hit, used for some combos and setups, but it's still unsafe on block and nowhere near as useful as it was in MBAC. It is no longer jump cancellable on block, which means it's really not useful in blockstrings outside of Bite tick throws any more, and since you don't really want to use Sacchin's airthrow in this game, it's not useful for combos either. There's still always the stagger 214A and cancel into 214C on hit, but since 214A isn't jump cancellable on block, it's not safe any more. This will always move momentum away from you into the opponent's favor on block.

214[A] - Punch fakeout. She'll wind her arm like she's doing 214B for as long as you hold A, until maybe half a second where she stops (31 frames apparently). It's not really useful. People that see a 214B should just start blocking high regardless, and it's too slow to hold out all the way to really fake out a 2C or anything else effectively. It's also too slow to work as a sort of whiff cancel for anything like Nanaya 22C, so this is pretty much pointless. If only it imitated a move that didn't suck, maybe it'd have uses. Like 214A, this makes you lose momentum no matter what, which is never a good thing for Sacchin.

214B - Forward moving punch. Slow overhead. Launches into like 623C or airthrow on hit. It's not a very good overhead, same as in MBAC, but hey, Choco blockstrings. It's not that bad on block though, only -2, so it's pretty much safe, but it moves momentum away from your favor, which sucks.

214[ B ] - Not very good. Wallslams when fully charged, but it takes 68 frames to come out. Also unshieldable. If it hits, you can get a full j.[C] combo afterwards for a ton of damage.

214C - EX moving punch. Same as always, strong reversal, 9f startup but it's invincible so you don't have to worry about it not coming out. I believe that like MBAC this can trade, but you'll pretty much always do more damage, and it wallslams so it'll always get them off of you. Combo into 2C into whatever near corner, just like before. -2 on block, essentially safe, which is always nice for a reversal.

22A - Ground pound. Same properties as before. Thanks to various changes, though, this is much better than 22B now I believe. 1f faster startup, less unsafe on block, and gives a combo on counterhit, same as always (the changes that make this better are because 22B is much less useful for a reversal).

22B - Ground pound. Much worse. No/less clash I believe. Still cancels into 22C, but why would you? You can't follow 22C up with anything outside of the corner now. More unsafe than 22A, 9f startup, bleh.

22C - EX Ground pound. Her generally most useful reversal, probably. It's 10f startup and completely horrible on block (there's not even disadvantage listed in the book because it'll always push them out of range before the attack finishes and you're left pounding nothing). But the hitbox makes it a better real reversal than 214C. You can't follow this up any more on hit, though, so it's probably not nearly as good regardless.

421A - Anti air dunk. Sacchin leaps up in the air with her arm extended and grabs the opponent. If it hits, will do a dunk them into the ground, and it gives a bounce on the ground that's untechable like her old airthrow. Far enough from the corner, any of her dunks lead into her old 4-way, but that's hard to do. 9f startup isn't very good, but 8f active is. Can riskily catch jumpouts with the great range and active frames, but 421B is slightly better. It's about as unsafe as 623C for catching jumpouts, but hey, people use 623C for that anyways.

421B - Anti air dunk. Same as above exactly, with 2f more startup in exchange for 4f more active. Even better for catching jumps. Not much else to say.

421C - EX Anti air dunk. 8f startup, huge damage, 12f active, huge hitbox, it's sort of like 623C as anti air. IF they jump, it's easy to land. If they see it, you're gonna get punished. Again, can go into 4-way facing out of the corner. Punish IAD pressure with it if you want, but it's risky.

632146C - EX Bite. I think it's better in this game. Guide book says 3f startup, with 0f post-flash. That's incredibly fast. Properties should be the same, maybe 6216C still works as the command, it's a good tick throw, since her normal throw is pretty bad, and she doesn't need meter as bad in MBAA.

j.632146C - Air EX Bite. Completely worthless for anything as far as I can tell. The only time I've ever seen it hit was when I kept trying to do it against a computer and it hit once. It has 9f startup, 3 post-flash, which means it's much crappier than her airthrow and ground EX bite, without any beneficial properties I believe. It can't be comboed into either. Maybe you can use it as a joke, but this attack may as well as have not been added, because it really has no use. Apparently it's only 15f recovery, but that doesn't matter on whiff because you'll get punished regardless of it being 15 or 20 something. You can OTG afterwards but you don't get any real combo unless you have meter to OTG into 623C.

41236C (Heat or MAX) - Arc Drive. 16f startup, 12 post-flash, but invincible. Only good for going through other attacks at very close range. Same as MBAC, pretty much. Not a good move.

41236c (Blood Heat) - AAD. 12f startup, 6 post-flash. Same uses as MBAC, but I don't know if you can do the whole combo into it while in MAX by activating after a 623B sort of thing in this game. WILL grab them out of the air, and can be comboed into from 623C as always. It's a deceptively strong attack, but the problem is you actually have to be in Blood Heat to use it, which makes it an easy read. But at point blank, it's actually hard to get out of safely.

Last Arc - It does more damage. Nothing else to say.

Combos-

There's a lot of possibilities here. Essentially, anything that bounces/launches and isn't techable links into just about anything (5[C], j.[C], and 623C). 2C goes into 3C or 5C, and 3C goes into 623[A] while 5C goes into 623C. 623[A] goes into j.[C] j.[C], but it's her impossible BnB and most Japanese players can't do it consistently. End all combos with 623A if possible. Her meterless BnB is something like this:

2A 5B 5C 2C 3C 623[A] j.[C] jc. j.[C] land 66 5[C] 2[C] 2C 5C 623A
EDIT: 5[C] only works in corner and is strict. Also, the "best" groundstring is 5BC 2C 3C 623[A]. I'm seeing certain players not use 623A and just ending combos with 623C or whatever. You have options.

With meter (I believe this is right, only in corner):

2A 5B 5C 2C 3C 623[A] j.[C] jc. j.[C] land 66 5[C] 2[C] 2C 3C 623[A] 623C 2C 5C 623A

There's plenty of room for variation, you can do 623C early and get the damage from that, and still go into 2C 3C 623[A] etc. Off of 623A, you can:

-Dash forward jump. This goes into airdodge mixups, and you can hold forward and air backdash to try to land a j.C, or whatever. See Kouma Sandoori.
-Superjump. Jump again when you're over their head and then airdodge for some really obscure possible crossups.
-Dash 2AAAA. Ok, it's not a mixup, but it's pressure. If they see the 2A they're probably not going to reversal, and a reversal can beat out your other mixups. Hey, Kouma players do it a lot, and it's not actually bad, even if it's a bit dumb.
-(Walk back a few steps? Pause? Don't really know, probably character dependent) Superjump into 4-way. It's possible, there's a few more options because of air dodge, and it's pretty strong. Don't know if it's really doable in it's full MBAC form, or if it's actually hard to block with this setup, but it's definitely doable. The "strongest" option off of this is still 496, if you can do it.

You can end combos in other ways of course. Airthrow puts you in neutral. 623[ B ] gives you the same 623B oki from MBAC, same for 623C and 2C. Try whatever. Unlike in MBAC, she has no set few ways of mixups that work very seamlessly. Hell, even in MBAC on a high level people used 4-way more sparingly because it was so commonly used it became easy to deal with. Instead, now she gets tons more options.

I may add more if anything comes up. Obviously if anyone else has combos I'll put them up. I don't know if I'll do a writeup for Half/Full, but Full isn't too different and Crescent is the one I know the most about.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 01:38:25 AM by Ultima66 »

Offline Abstract Nonsense

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • finding comfort in boning a whale
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 03:40:16 PM »
I would plus heat you but Meltybread is being douchey.

Edit: Hooray I got it
[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you

Offline Van_Artic

  • Vigilant White
  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • Haters Gonna Hate
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube page
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 05:10:20 AM »
+Heat for you, great thread :D
<Zelretch> i would pay for a Kouma bedsheet
<Zelretch> seriously i wouldnt mind sleeping with PURE MASCULINITY

<ehrik> does ckouma have any hype combos <setrajonas> 2aaa <ehrik> damn that combo <ehrik> is too hard <ehrik> do you have anything easier

Offline Abstract Nonsense

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • finding comfort in boning a whale
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 12:37:22 PM »
Quote
Walk back a few steps? Pause? Don't really know, probably character dependent

If it's anything like MBAC the "heavier" the character the more steps you'll need to take.
[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you

Offline MK dagawd

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Magic Circuits: 3
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 04:28:24 PM »
Cool info bro, I might write one up for H Satsuki sometime.

Offline Abstract Nonsense

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • finding comfort in boning a whale
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009, 12:36:28 PM »
Quote
The "strongest" option off of this is still 496, if you can do it.

Question, if you can airdash with 96, shouldn't you just need to do 76 now? Although that may actually be tougher to do correctly.

[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you

Offline Ultima66

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
  • Magic Circuits: 16
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2009, 12:53:16 PM »
Quote
The "strongest" option off of this is still 496, if you can do it.

Question, if you can airdash with 96, shouldn't you just need to do 76 now? Although that may actually be tougher to do correctly.


I guess. I can't actually IAD on a stick and I can't even feel the difference between 696 or 96 on keyboard.

Offline Abstract Nonsense

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • finding comfort in boning a whale
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 12:45:48 PM »
GREETINGS, FOR A BIT OF TRIVIA, YE OLDE 4-WAY MIXUP EXISTS IN MBAA.

I've found that the timing is a bit horrible off of dunk, but you can setup a very simple variant by doing, with your back to the corner and you close to it:

5B 2C 5C 623 5B 623C 2C 3C 623[A] 9[C] into 4 way.
[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you

Offline Ultima66

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
  • Magic Circuits: 16
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 02:11:24 PM »
GREETINGS, FOR A BIT OF TRIVIA, YE OLDE 4-WAY MIXUP EXISTS IN MBAA.

I've found that the timing is a bit horrible off of dunk, but you can setup a very simple variant by doing, with your back to the corner and you close to it:

5B 2C 5C 623[.B] 5B 623C 2C 3C 623[A] 9[C] into 4 way.

Why would you do this though? You can just continue the combo into double j.[C] dash 2C 5C 623A and get a sort of mixup.

By the way 623[A] j.[C] is a 1f link according to Choco.

EDIT: HAY GUYS TESTED DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ARCADE AND ORIGINAL BALANCE AND j.[C] j.[C] DOES LIKE 200 LESS DAMAGE NOW AND 623[A] IS GROUNDTECHABLE.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 06:35:46 PM by Ultima66 »

Offline Abstract Nonsense

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • finding comfort in boning a whale
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2009, 08:14:49 AM »
Quote
Why would you do this though? You can just continue the combo into double j.[C] dash 2C 5C 623A and get a sort of mixup.

Because the 623A can be ground teched. And it does a bit more damage than dunk. That's pretty much it. But mainly, it's shenanigans and gimmickry. I'd actually rather run double j.[C] dash 2C 5C 623[A]. 623[A] is actually surprisingly decent for oki.

Quote
By the way 623[A] j.[C] is a 1f link according to Choco.

...Seriously?

If I have the BnB semi consistent while playing on emulator with a framerate prone to fluctuating ridiculously, it is no way in hell a one frame link.

Quote
623[A] IS GROUND TECHABLE

Don't you mean 623A?

 ???
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 01:54:33 PM by Abstract Nonsense »
[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you

Offline AARP|ZTB

  • HATEmaster
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Magic Circuits: 102
  • canes, complaints & caddies
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 04:58:48 PM »
Ok, some things I learned about sacchin after getting in games with zidane:

1) don't get hit (most important and worth mention)

2) 214[ b ] after 4 revolutions (winds arm 4x or more) is unshieldable (includes held shield).

3) and as abstract said: 623A is now ground techable. zidane did however come up with some tech checking on the fly.
E.g. dash 5b>236C will track 6/4 ground pass and dash 2a for neutral(8) ground pass. There are probably some stronger followups after the 5b but I don't really know sacchin that well and zidane is just getting started/didn't get to experiment with the ground tech punishers as we just found out on that day that 623A was techable.
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Ultima66

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
  • Magic Circuits: 16
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2009, 06:58:05 PM »
3) and as abstract said: 623A is now ground techable. zidane did however come up with some tech checking on the fly.
E.g. dash 5b>236C will track 6/4 ground pass and dash 2a for neutral(8) ground pass. There are probably some stronger followups after the 5b but I don't really know sacchin that well and zidane is just getting started/didn't get to experiment with the ground tech punishers as we just found out on that day that 623A was techable.

If he has meter, he should end combos in 623C instead for crescent. Yuzupeko has put up a few better combo enders with better mixups off of them recently in that one big Sacchin combo video. He should probably watch that.

There's some really high damage combos off of 214 that I didn't know about. I don't know the properties it gains with more revolutions, but at some point it wallslams and does a lot more than normal.

Offline Tempered

  • America is free to Satsuki
  • Magus Candidate
  • ****
  • Posts: 1004
  • Magic Circuits: 22
  • fullscreen j.[c] mixup
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 03:32:28 AM »
When fully charged yes 214b wallslams and you can continue the combo with j.[c] shenanigans or what have you. you should be able to pull a 4-5k combo easy if this lands. 214{b} will also take off 1/3 (maybe even more!) of your opponents guard bar if it is blocked. If you're opponent has low guard meter try to land a combo into 2c then do delayed 214{b} to make it meaty. They either get guardcrushed or hit out of the air (air unblockable) unless they have a decent reversal.

 214a works as a decent anti air for Catsuki, if it hits you can EX cancel it or jump cancel. Also timing dash forward 5b correctly after 623a will always lead into a full combo for a forward and back techpunish. If you thinks they'll do neutral you should do 2c to cover neutral and forward techs then combo. 2c can technically cover all tech options but unless you have really good reactions a back tech will move them too far and you'll only get one non tripping hit of 2c which you can cancel into 236c.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 03:40:05 AM by Tempered »
During Loser's Finals at NECX:

<Crowd at Jiyuna about to Lose> Na na na naaaa, na na na naaaa, hey hey hey, Goodbyeeee~

Offline noradseven

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Magic Circuits: 10
  • quick doctor what is the patients status?
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2010, 09:03:07 PM »
Its like nobody even cares about sacchin ohh well probably should have

Her heat combo, which is do whatever, and when they are in the corner and you have more than 65% heat do 623C,2C,5C,214C,dash forward,2C,5C,(623A/B), does a fuck to of damage and looks cool.

Also it would be a good idea to get good at mixup with her when the opponent is in the corner.

Offline ehrik

  • Magus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
  • Magic Circuits: 144
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2010, 01:27:48 PM »
Ultima think you can update the first post with all the new properties of moves? ie: 214[ b ] wallslams, unshiedable; j.63214c can be OTG'd, etc.

That way people who haven't seen the 18 minute sacchin video don't get the wrong idea about some of her moves D:
<Graven> When you are Ciel, don't try to win, don't even try to do anything. The more you do, the stupider and bigger faggot you become because you're using Ciel.
<WyvernLord> roku is faking his disappearance so melty bread can come out and try to convince him of his value to the community

Offline Ultima66

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
  • Magic Circuits: 16
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2010, 01:43:13 AM »
I updated the two moves you told me to. I really dislike the way a lot of this was written, though, and have no motivation to actually fix it.

Fact is, there's only so many useful moves for this character, and air EX bite/charged 214B aren't among them, despite them being in a combo video. Really Satsuki's normals all have very general purposes, while her specials are pretty much all bad except for the antiair grabs and reversal supers.

Offline noradseven

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Magic Circuits: 10
  • quick doctor what is the patients status?
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2010, 01:44:05 PM »
I updated the two moves you told me to. I really dislike the way a lot of this was written, though, and have no motivation to actually fix it.

Fact is, there's only so many useful moves for this character, and air EX bite/charged 214B aren't among them, despite them being in a combo video. Really Satsuki's normals all have very general purposes, while her specials are pretty much all bad except for the antiair grabs and reversal supers.

From a C-Satsuki point of view

Yeah however her true reversal super 22C should p. much never be used except on 22A, non-counter hit.

623C is good for its hilarious range and speed.
412C for its absurd range, and badassness for ending matches with it.
64214C=tick throw
214C it trades with p. much everything and normally the trade is good.  Its also a double KO machine useful to know when your opponent is up 1-0.
236C why the fuck did you use this move no bad sacchin.
41236C Distance traveling reversal slow though and alot of people can and will bait it.
22C use it after non counter hit 22A, unless their is some sweet ass combo with this move like their was in MBAC I doubt it will really have any other use.

C-Sacchin does have a useless nonsuper move though *hint its 22B.

Also been loving that 22A CH, is one of the highest damage meterless anti air in the game, if not the most damaging because you get to do your BnB off it.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 06:43:46 PM by noradseven »

Offline noradseven

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Magic Circuits: 10
  • quick doctor what is the patients status?
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 06:38:06 PM »
Here is a guide on her dribble combo the way they way it stands post 623A is techable world, also some blockstrings/mixup stuff.  Just reply if you find any part confusing and I will try to fix it.

Combos:
In the melty blood engine after 3 bounces the combo is over...remember that. 
You can also only do 1 Jump cancel in a combo this is important otherwise we could do (623C,2C,3C,623[A],j.[C],5[C],2[C],5C,623B,5B,2C)xn

Setups into Dribble combo:
(j.C,5B,5C),2C,3C
any CH,2C,3C
3[C],2C,3C
623C,2C,3C *sets to 1 bounce
214C,2C,3C(corner only) *adds 1 bounce
22C,2C,3C(corner only) *adds 1 bounce

Dribble combo:  *623[a], sj.[C] is a 2 frame link enjoy XD.
623[A], sj.[C],sj.[C],land *midscreen/corner
623[A], sj.[C],j.[C],land *corner
623[A],sj.[C] *anywhere use when bounce counter is already at 1.

Dribble combo enders:
Midscreen:dash, 2C,5C,623[C] *sets up a mixup.
dash,2C,5C,623[B},5B,2C,623[C]  *same as above but character specific
dash,2C,5C,412B *throws them into the corner.
dash,2C,5C,623[B},5B,2C,623[C],2C,5C,421B *If you really want to I guess.

Corner: (5[C],2[C]),2C,5C,623[B},5B,2C,623[C]  *OTG will be different for other characters
(5[C],2[C]),2C,5C,623[B},5B,2C,623[C],2C,5C,421B *If you really want to I guess
(5[C],2[C]),2C,5C,623[B},5B,2C,623[C],2C,5C,214C,step towards the corner,2C,5C,421B/623A 
*421B ender: leads into mixup great damage.
*623A ender: toss into corner if they tech they are screwed if they don't standard wakeup game->corner pressure...this combo is great to use if you hit max during the dribble.

Full big damage combo:
j.C,5B,5C,2C,3C,623[A],sj.[C],j.[C],5[C],2[C],(2C,)5C,623[B},5B,2C,623C,2C,5C,214C,walkforward,2C,5C,421B *does like ~6k damage, and leads into a good mixup.


*don't press the first 5B to early or it reverse beats

*5[C],2[C], may need to be replaced by dash depending on your posistion...2[C],2C is not possible on many characters and you can just replace with 2[C].

*after the 214C yes you are supposed to walk under them, to end the combo midscreen or in the corner or whatever.

*you can replace the 2C,5C,623A/421B with 2C,3C,623[A],623A/421B at the end for like 3-4% more meter and like 20 more damage or something.

*you can't just do 2 bounces then 214C, because not only is the move a pain to hit for some reason when it does it sets the counter to 3 you have to do 623C first, its possible to do, just 1 j.[C], land then do the 2C,5C,214C, walk forward,2C,5C,421B combo but its more difficult but its worth learning if you really want that mixup.

Cool stuff. 214C/623C/236C all combo straight into AAD

Blockstrings:  Okay C-sacchin doesn't have long blockstrings but they can be scary...
5A(A),slight delay 63214C, tick super throw.
5A(A),slight delay,2B,2C,5B,5A
5A(A),(5B),2B,5C,214A(whiff),63214C
5A(A),(5B),2B,5C,214B,5A
2A 5B 5A(whiff)

There are some more ways to setup 214A whiffs and some other tricks to landing 63214C but these are the basics and will get you started.

If you catch yourself doing something unsafe you can 214C for trade at worst, and keep going.
*at any time you can 236B for command grab risky though.

If anyone has any questions or something isn't working for you or anything to add please post...hell post anyways...C-sacchin needs some love :(.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 03:07:04 PM by noradseven »

Offline Abstract Nonsense

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • finding comfort in boning a whale
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 06:55:16 PM »
Quote
623C is good for its hilarious range and speed.
412C for its absurd range, and badassness for ending matches with it.

To be honest, 421C doesn't really appeal to me that much as AA when compared with 623C. The move seems to be riskier on whiff, doesn't have as good a follow up option except in specific circumstances, and for some reason it seems to be a bit hard for me to space, people seem to be able to go around it, but they almost never get around my 623C.

Quote
64214C=tick throw

Ex-bite is just half-circle back now. Also, ex-bite's greater range allows for some really amazing options like:

jC (blocked) ex-bite
jC 2A (blocked) ex-bite

Quote
623[A], sj.[C],sj.[C],land *midscreen/corner
623[A], sj.[C],j.[C],land *corner

Uh...shouldn't that be j[C] -> sdj[C]?


Quote
*don't press the first 5B to early or it reverse beats

When you are unsure of your spacing, as in you think the jC has connected too early, a single 2A to make the combo certain can be a life saver.

Quote
*after the 214C yes you are supposed to walk under them, to end the combo midscreen or in the corner or whatever.

That should be moved to the beginning of your post. This whole time, I've been under the impression that you have been suggesting to use 421B into corner to set up a mix up. I was pretty annoyed.

Quote
5A(A),slight delay 63214C, tick super throw.
5A(A),slight delay,2B,2C,5B,5A
5A(A),(5B),2B,5C,214A(whiff),63214C
5A(A),(5B),2B,5C,214B,5A

You have left out:

2A 5B 5A(whiff)

Which is quite nice.

Another nice thing is if you get them to block 5C, if you time 5A(whiff) right, you're at the perfect spot for 66 5C. Too discourage mashing though, you should probably run iad back in first. Usually you'll be able to react to a jump out with 623C at that spot too. The players that this has been tested against are kind of bad though. So, take it with a grain of salt.

And 2B is +frames on block in F-Moon, if my memory serves me well. Does anyone know about C-Moon?

« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 04:45:04 PM by Abstract Nonsense »
[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you

Offline noradseven

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Magic Circuits: 10
  • quick doctor what is the patients status?
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2010, 02:59:53 PM »
I don't have the frame data for C-sacchin, but does her 5[C] have air super armor or something.  How long does that last and how does that work.

lots of words
In the corner don't have to do a second SJ[C], you can if you want though.

On 412C it should be rarely used for the reasons you stated it is however important to know that it wrecks air dodges, and does have slightly longer range.

On the walk under them part, that is character specific. A decent number of characters will automatically just get crossed up by the wall bounce.  Though there is no harm in doing it against everyone.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 03:04:52 PM by noradseven »

Offline Abstract Nonsense

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Magic Circuits: 6
  • finding comfort in boning a whale
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2010, 08:51:19 PM »
Quote
In the corner don't have to do a second SJ[C], you can if you want though.

No, the main problem was that you listed the first jump as sj. Which is...wrong.

As for 5C, haven't played enough to test it out, but it had clash frames that you could abuse for AA in MBAC. 5[C] probably has some goofy properties, but it's probably not quite worth it, as in MBAC, it's an incredibly risky AA, and should probably only be used for scaring people, showing off, or being silly.


Guys.

Bite is SO good.

Quote

j.632146C - Air EX Bite. Completely worthless for anything as far as I can tell. The only time I've ever seen it hit was when I kept trying to do it against a computer and it hit once. It has 9f startup, 3 post-flash, which means it's much crappier than her airthrow and ground EX bite, without any beneficial properties I believe. It can't be comboed into either. Maybe you can use it as a joke, but this attack may as well as have not been added, because it really has no use. Apparently it's only 15f recovery, but that doesn't matter on whiff because you'll get punished regardless of it being 15 or 20 something. You can OTG afterwards but you don't get any real combo unless you have meter to OTG into 623C.

Also, managed to test whether or not jB (blocked) air bite works. And it totally does. So Air Bite actually has uses.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 04:43:04 PM by Abstract Nonsense »
[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you

Offline noradseven

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Magic Circuits: 10
  • quick doctor what is the patients status?
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2010, 03:05:14 PM »
Quote
In the corner don't have to do a second SJ[C], you can if you want though.

No, the main problem was that you listed the first jump as sj. Which is...wrong.

As for 5C, haven't played enough to test it out, but it had clash frames that you could abuse for AA in MBAC. 5[C] probably has some goofy properties, but it's probably not quite worth it, as in MBAC, it's an incredibly risky AA, and should probably only be used for scaring people, showing off, or being silly.


Guys.

Bite is SO good.

Quote

j.632146C - Air EX Bite. Completely worthless for anything as far as I can tell. The only time I've ever seen it hit was when I kept trying to do it against a computer and it hit once. It has 9f startup, 3 post-flash, which means it's much crappier than her airthrow and ground EX bite, without any beneficial properties I believe. It can't be comboed into either. Maybe you can use it as a joke, but this attack may as well as have not been added, because it really has no use. Apparently it's only 15f recovery, but that doesn't matter on whiff because you'll get punished regardless of it being 15 or 20 something. You can OTG afterwards but you don't get any real combo unless you have meter to OTG into 623C.

Also, managed to test whether or not jB (blocked) air bite works. And it totally does. So Air Bite actually has uses.

Been a while since I posted but I have played a shit ton more.

5C clash frames seem way to risky.  Also yeah Bite totally rules, and air bite, is good in its own right.  Right now mostly im just spending all my meter on bite/heat shit, and when I land a BnB just end with 623[A], and mixup.

Also full kouma and full ries not only is the BnB combo annoying even after I got past that it seemed like a huge pain, kouma being the worse of the two.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 03:11:35 PM by noradseven »

Offline BlueBlueAquamarine

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 28
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • cookies
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2010, 07:42:50 PM »
I am referencing this thread for the new C-Sacchin info on wiki.

Basically, I am reading, trying things out, and writing at the same time.  :toot:

I know I am reviving an old thread, but just a thank you reply to Ultima66 and others.
The Eternal Noob
Plays only the Manliest Chars: Kouma, Len

Offline Tempered

  • America is free to Satsuki
  • Magus Candidate
  • ****
  • Posts: 1004
  • Magic Circuits: 22
  • fullscreen j.[c] mixup
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2010, 12:44:23 AM »
Keep us updated on what your working on. Got a bit of knowledge here, can help you speed up your tests and what not.
During Loser's Finals at NECX:

<Crowd at Jiyuna about to Lose> Na na na naaaa, na na na naaaa, hey hey hey, Goodbyeeee~

Offline BlueBlueAquamarine

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 28
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • cookies
    • View Profile
Re: MBAA Crescent Satsuki Reference
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2010, 03:16:33 PM »
Yeah got the basics done. Working on combos and strat now.

Grrr, I am surprised by how little info about C-Satsuki there are out on internet... especially since she shows up pretty often in japanese match videos. :mystery: Even the Japanese wiki has little about this character (http://wikiwiki.jp/satukiss/)

Weird~~~ things:
1) OTG followup to 623[ B ]

So, the list right now on MBAA wiki is from the Japanese wiki.
> I could not confirm 2 of the OTG options (Probably due to my eternally noobish execution level): 5C with White Len, anything with Len
> OTG options for Miyako, Mech, Ryougi, S.Akiha, Sions (other than 5B)?

In addition, one recent vid shows an interesting... variation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPYMbtSh0Dg#t=2m56s : 5B 2AA 5C 2C  ???)

Your thoughts?


2) Ground combo starter string

5BC 2C 3C 623[A] is the supposedly the "best" but most players just do 5B 2C 3C 623[A]. I am assuming the reason is 5C can put you too far away for 2C for hit twice? Or maybe there is some other issue?


LOL 2 frame link between 623[A] j.[C]... the most essential and the hardest part of learning C-Satsuki. It's starting to slowly burn me from inside.
The Eternal Noob
Plays only the Manliest Chars: Kouma, Len