Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Current Code => Seifuku Akiha => : Rei March 23, 2012, 08:40:44 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Oh god this character is just so sad, why am I making this thread.
Meanwhile some cool combos
corner variant
5A 5B 2B 5C 2C 6C j.ABC dj8.beC slight delay j.214A land j.BC dj.beC j.A(whiff) j.214A (for oki) near the ground
Lets you do some cool stuff for oki with j.[C] to start stuff with.
midscreen variant
5A 5B 2B 5C 2C 6C j.ABC dj9.beC slight delay j.214B land j.BC dj.beC j.A (whiff) j.214A/B (depending on distance for oki) near the ground
Character has some interesting combos, but I still think she's ass especially in neutral.
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http://youtu.be/42XIFNn7kLM 2 matches of H-Seifuku
Some nifty stuff, I suppose.
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http://youtu.be/42XIFNn7kLM 2 matches of H-Seifuku
Some nifty stuff, I suppose.
Yeah, saw that and decided to do some stuff off of what I saw :V... This is the only footage ever of her...
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Okay guys, time to revive this thing.
confirm>6AA>[22A>2C]>stuff
The longer my confirm is, the harder this link (in brackets) becomes due to gravity. With a 5B starter into optimal followups, I have about a 60% success rate with this link. Any visual cues that would help? I try 22A ASAP after 22A, but I'm not sure when to press 2C after 22A. Too early, it comes out as 5C or doesn't come out at all; too late, and well you know.
That, and what are our BnB corner combos? Meterless and with meter.
One more thing: our oki. I'm assuming it's 214x on wakeup, but how effective is this really? Do we have any cross-up potential? Notable meaties?
Just came here from Full moon, so a two questions about that too:
<1> How is the j.C here used differently from F?
<2> Do we have any form of oki that rivals Flame Ring oki? I really liked that about F.
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As far as I can tell, she has some cool combos that she can do, but she is really more like C-Moon than F. She has the same type of combo, where you launch into an aircombo that ends with BEj.C, and you pit for an otg pick-up, that leads into an aircombo that ends with BE.jC, that gives you pit oki. The only difference I can see is that C-Moon gets better damage, and better oki. C-Moon also has better neural because of her flame pillars.
Not really trying to discourage you from playing her, just telling you what I think from seeing her played. I can't say that I've tried to play her myself, I only know people that have.
You'll likely find that C-Moon is played about the same way as H, but is like better in every way you can think of, besides maybe having h-moon auto heat and shield bunkers.
Just came here from Full moon, so a two questions about that too:
<1> How is the j.C here used differently from F?
<2> Do we have any form of oki that rivals Flame Ring oki? I really liked that about F.
So I think I've already touched on 1.
For 2, the short answer is no. She gets flame pit oki, which is nowhere near as good as F-moon ring oki. I'm not sure if H has guaranteed corner carry off any hit like C-Moon does, but H's pit oki will work best in the corner. You do not get the kinds of mix-up options the F-Moon gets for oki, but she does get high/low mid screen, or kamone in the corner.
There is not many other chars that have oki like F-SAkiha. Only one I can think of off the top of my head is H-WLen with charged air ice.
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Honestly, H was barely usable on PS2. Now that her damage is nerfed, there's really no reason at all to play her over C. She's not even easy to play. She's just not a good character in any way. She has some cool looking 22 stuff, though.
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...my character loyalty~ :emo:
Trust me guys, I love F-Seifuku, but the character specific thing is really, and I mean REALLY turning me off, especially since it's actually a core part of her gameplay. I also don't want to go Crescent because her air normals look like crap (I'm an aesthetics guy, please bear with me). H-Moon seems to have a pretty good affinity for 6AA, and also seems to have an option from almost any hitconfirm. Oki is really the only thing I don't like about about H-Moon.
I'm not saying you guys are discouraging me from using this moon, but F-Seifuku virtually has no corner carry, her BnBs are character-specific, and her reward is pretty average. Oki is really the only thing I've been able to do with her. What I've seen so far regarding her is just so....one-dimensional. I really want someone to prove me wrong on this. I'm already set on learning this character, but I'd still like someone to remotivate me into picking up F-Moon, I really enjoyed the little time I spent using her.
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Well, FSei isn't especially good either. She does no damage, her good combos are hard, and rings are fun but they aren't even that strong.
The problem with HSei is that she doesn't even fill a niche. At least FSei does something that not many other characters do. HSei is just a really really bad CSei (partially 'cause CSei is ridiculously strong).
It's not like HSei is unusable, but you have to work harder than necessary.
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I think H-Seifuku is weaker than C and F, but that doesn't necessarily make her a bad char.
H-Seifuku has some cool stuff that nets low-ish damage and ends in oki. My main problem with the character is that her normals are garbage. She doesn't even have any good specials to help her out in neutral either so you're kind of just forced to rely on her (godlike) dash.
I haven't played her in a while but I'm pretty sure the bnbs I ran were:
->2a 5b 5c 5a 6aa 22a 2c 22a 214a
->2a 5b 5c 2c 6c j.bc dj.BEj.C j.214a land j.bc dj.BEj.C slight delay j.214A
The first bnb sets up meaty pillar and lets you run high/low/cmd grab mixup. The second bnb gives much more corner carry and sets up meaty air pillar. Unfortunately her oki is much weaker compared to C's oki which is similar because C gets 2-3 pillars worth of blockstun to work with, whereas H sets up only 1. Just remember when doing the second combo to delay the last pillar so it is timed meaty.
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About FSei, if you really like her keep grinding until you can do character specific stuff, if that seems too much of a bother wait for the next version...
Because the way this game plays, if to get your setplay on you can't reach even 3k damage you're pretty much screwed (take it from a F-nanaya player).
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About FSei, if you really like her keep grinding until you can do character specific stuff, if that seems too much of a bother wait for the next version...
What I'm afraid of isn't how hard it is to learn the loop against certain characters, it's the characters that make it futile that scare me. Practically speaking, what does a match between an F-Sei and a Ryougi look like? 2k avg vs 4k avg? Worst part is, it doesn't matter how good your execution is, if 22A loops will not work, they won't work period. Your victory completely revolves around how many hitconfirms you can get in, rather than making the most out of them, no matter how fluent you are at using the character. You lose half of your BnB, and there's really nothing you can do about it.
What I like about H-Sei so far is (leave C-Sei out for now), how I have so many more options after a hitconfirm compared to F-Sei. A 5C confirm for example:
F-Sei:
>3C>air combo
>22A
H-Sei:
>2C>6C>6B>air combo
>6AA>22A>2C>22A
>6AA>22A>filler>air combo
>etc. mix and match with normals
I'm used to being restricted to short midscreen combos meterless, but a 2 hit combo really is pushing it. If Full Moons had 5C>2C or 2C>5C gatlings or whatnot, that'd be a completely different story.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but these normal don't look all that bad, these seem like they're at least on par with Nanaya.
http://www24.atwiki.jp/seifukuakiha/pages/24.html
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I think H-Seifuku is weaker than C and F, but that doesn't necessarily make her a bad char.
H-Seifuku has some cool stuff that nets low-ish damage and ends in oki. My main problem with the character is that her normals are garbage. She doesn't even have any good specials to help her out in neutral either so you're kind of just forced to rely on her (godlike) dash.
I haven't played her in a while but I'm pretty sure the bnbs I ran were:
->2a 5b 5c 5a 6aa 22a 2c 22a 214a
->2a 5b 5c 2c 6c j.bc dj.BEj.C j.214a land j.bc dj.BEj.C slight delay j.214A
The first bnb sets up meaty pillar and lets you run high/low/cmd grab mixup. The second bnb gives much more corner carry and sets up meaty air pillar. Unfortunately her oki is much weaker compared to C's oki which is similar because C gets 2-3 pillars worth of blockstun to work with, whereas H sets up only 1. Just remember when doing the second combo to delay the last pillar so it is timed meaty.
Basically all of this. When I play H-Seifuku, I don't really feel 22A loops are worth it, nor are the character specific stuff unless you really like being flashy. Maybe if her 2C hit a tiny bit higher they'd work on everyone making it better but... just my opinion. I just basically use the latter combo. More specifics on it:
I like to do stuff into 2C 6C 6B jBC djBE_C (slight delay) dj214A(214B if you are midscreen, change as appropriate) land jBC djBE_C whiff jA j214A (right before you land).
Best timing to do the first j214A is right as you hear or right before the first bounce when they get ground slammed. Also, when you do flame pillar oki, you can sorta do the same jBE_C mixup C-Seifuku has, although its more gimmicky probably. Would go something like:
combo > whiff jA 214A land j9 slight delay > deep(ish) jBE_C > (whiff) jB 5A > stuff. If the jBE_C catches a jumpout, your jB will catch them after the second bounce and you can followup with 5C jBC djBE_C into oki again. If you decide to whiff jB, that's for your low post-jBE_C, and don't whiff for the high option. You can also try to tick by doing jA instead and going into command grab, which will mostly carry back to opposite corner.
Overall, it's what everyone has been saying - she's basically a weaker C-Seifuku with not-so-good neutral and normals. her pressure is a bit more OK with 22 series imo but take that with a grain of salt.
Stuff you can do with meter is kinda the same but it really won't extend your damage - the only real time to do it is to manage your meter. You can do stuff like whatever into 2C 6C (6B) 236C sj9 jBC djBE_C > whatever.
Also, when doing this combo close to the corner, you probably want to do your double jumps straight up or you risk having your flame pillars whiff as they'll come up behind the corner, so you won't always get a forced block or relaunch.
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It's illusion of choice. There's only one choice of combo and that's the OTG relaunch. Otherwise, you're doing 3k with no carry.
Also, you can't look at normals with just frame data. Nanaya normals move him forward and lets him keep the pressure going. HSei's A moves are level 1. CSei's A moves have higher blockstun, must be shielded correctly, and her low starter has better prorate. Plus, C has better 236s and 214s to cover anything as well as forward moving 2B and 5C.
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It's illusion of choice. There's only one choice of combo and that's the OTG relaunch. Otherwise, you're doing 3k with no carry.
I'm pretty sure stuff>6AA>22A>stuff>air combo nets almost 5k (on V.Sion), while the corner carry OTG does 3~4k with corner carry. You can still choose between ending it with 22A for oki, air combo for damage, or OTG for corner carry.
Not insisting that this character has highly redeeming traits, I know **** about that. It's just that when you're stuck with 5C>22A or 2C>22A as your BnB combo, it's feels pathetic and unrewarding. At least this character gives me a sense of reward and style.
BTW, how's C-Sei compared to the rest of the cast? Is she relatively strong? Or is she just another Akiha with special loops?
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5B 2B 5CA 6AA 22A 2C 6C j.ABC dj.[C]214A j.BC dj.[C]A214A. Damage, corner carry, and oki.
As for CSei... Well, she's the best or second best character pretty much no matter who you ask.
EDIT: Actually, not sure this works. Gonna try it.
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As for CSei... Well, she's the best or second best character pretty much no matter who you ask.
Wait wait wait wait. I was under the impression that Ryougi and Powerd Ciel were the best in the game. I don't remember seeing Seifuku anywhere near S tier. Have I been unconsciously tier-whoring this entire time?
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Ryougi is barely mid and PCL is only slightly higher. Highest is Sei, Nero, then Koha, Roa, Arc, Hime, Satsuki.
Also, I did 5B 2B 5C(2)A 6AA 22B 2C 5C(2) j.ABC dj.[C]214A j.BC dj.[C]A214A 'cause it was easier and it worked fine.
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Ryougi is barely mid and PCL is only slightly higher. Highest is Sei, Nero, then Koha, Roa, Arc, Hime, Satsuki.
I hate being misinformed.
Also, I did 5B 2B 5C(2)A 6AA 22B 2C 5C(2) j.ABC dj.[C]214A j.BC dj.[C]A214A 'cause it was easier and it worked fine.
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY does this link? I spent an hour getting the 6AA>22A>2C link down consistently. Whose idea was it to list 22A in her BnBs instead? This is way easier.
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22A does more damage. By a tiny bit. Test stuff out. Don't just trust whatever you see.
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22A does more damage. By a tiny bit. Test stuff out. Don't just trust whatever you see.
I just did, in fact. I'm still going to go with 22B anyway, I don't see myself connecting the 22A cersion in lag anytime soon.
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Ryougi is barely mid and PCL is only slightly higher. Highest is Sei, Nero, then Koha, Roa, Arc, Hime, Satsuki.
I don't want to derail to much, but I'm still curious. How outdated is this thread?
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/melty-blood-auditorium/mbaacc-tiers/
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Those are preliminary list from just two months after the last update (year and a half ago). It's not extremely off from opinions now, but it's not something to take seriously. The main reason Ryougi was that high was 'cause no one knew how to deal with Leo's FRyougi.
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Did they fix her 6aaa combo not connecting half the time? if not dont even bother with this sub-animal trash char just play c lol
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Hahaha, gotta be near point blank for it to work right. Sad thing is, it wouldn't even take a lot to make her good. Make 214s work like HAkiha's j.236s with no minimum activation delay. Instantly high tier.
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Hahaha, gotta be near point blank for it to work right. Sad thing is, it wouldn't even take a lot to make her good. Make 214s work like HAkiha's j.236s with no minimum activation delay. Instantly high tier.
4evar low-tier hero. Just wondering, is she like lol BBCSEX Tsubaki or is she just overshadowed by the(?) best character in the game, who happens to be a hax ver of her?
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You can win with any character in Melty. It's not like you're playing at top-level anyways. When you lose, though, you'll know why.
Also Tsubaki is fine. 2k from optimal confirm is moe.
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You can win with any character in Melty. It's not like you're playing at top-level anyways. When you lose, though, you'll know why.
Obviously. I wouldn't be playing H-Seifuku otherwise. Or this game, for all that matters.
Also Tsubaki is fine. 2k from optimal confirm is moe.
It's not fine :'( Ragna 5B OP. Witness the salty tears streaming down my face.
EDIT: And you need 50 heat to combo off her optimum starter T_T
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Just to stay on topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rK91-q-GfA
Aside from damage values, this should all still be applicable.
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Forgive the triple post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TopSN6pls
Amazingly helpful for the one person on Earth who would even bother trying to pick up this character.
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Honestly, I'm watching it and thinking, "Why wouldn't I just do the normal combo in this situation?" As for the airthrow combo, land 2C 5C(2) 6B j.BC dj.[C]A214 does more and gives oki. 2C 5C(2) j.ABC dj.[C]A214 is probably better, actually. Don't know the optimal combos. :v
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Well, it is a tutorial meant for beginners. Besides, j.[C] occasionally gets kinda finicky after long ground strings followed into 6AA>22B>2C. Not exactly optimal proration string, but it's all we got. I personally like 2C>5C>6B>j.BC as opposed to 2C>5C>j.ABC. Wee bit more proration, and + style points.
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It's fine as long as you always end in j.[C] or a kill. If you can't make a combo end with j.[C], switch to an easier, less situational combo.
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lol no matter what you do you get 4k what a joke
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At least it's not H/F WLen damage. :v
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lol no matter what you do you get 4k what a joke
Since when was 4k plus oki off most confirms bad? Sure we're no dishing out F-Roast Beef derp damage, but come on, a little less tsun and a bit more dere can't hurt anyone :gonk:
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Not sure. Some of what I post I get other people to test ('cause my execution is terrible) but I think this one I tested myself so I think it does work. I'm going out right now, but I'll check when I get back.
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It's like a 1 frame link or something lol I couldn't get it consistently.
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I guess it does work, then. :v
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21075294
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Oh, man, that's way easier than my shitty combos. I knew you could do the IAD thing, but didn't realize you could get so much off of it.
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Wait, does C-Seifuku have anything like this? Forgive me, but I'm still trying to justify using this character over her.
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CSei's combo is easier, gives better oki, and she has better chances of confirming hits into it.
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CSei's combo is easier, gives better oki, and she has better chances of confirming hits into it.
Does...it do as much damage? Or have as much swag factor. Yeah, I'm definitely pulling straws here.
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BnB is pretty much the same damage. HSei will never actually do as much overall damage, though, 'cause CSei can confirm off of random hits really really easily with her 214s. Plus, HSei will never have as much meter to throw around.
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You guys are seriously shitting all over my poop party. :emo:
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But that's already been said. Just play with her and maybe you'll find some new tech with her. Honestly, playing with a "try-hard" character will make you so much better at fighting games if you stick with it, because once you see the greener pastures, you'll be ready to abuse them.
I honestly don't know if I agree with this. If you play with subpar tools all the time, that's what you'll learn to use, and how to work around. Bad characters have a heavy reliance on using gimmicks to win, too, which -isn't- what you want to have as a foundation for your play -- even if you want to be able to have a few back pocket gimmicks, you don't want to be nothing but those gimmicks. You can't learn solid play by playing a character who's incapable of it.
Playing CS1 Tsubaka soured me on low tier forever. It's not worth it. Mid tier+good compatibility with your character is okay, and low tier+good compatibility is fine if the tiers are really tight, but it's never worth it to play a character that's just bad. You won't learn anything except gimmicks and frustration.
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DUSKY~ :D It's great to see you here!
But you're bringing me pretty grim news. In the end, what's H-Sei's biggest issue? Clearly startup and frame advantage are at least normal. Is it attack levels? Priority? Lack of "moving forward" normals? For Tsubaki, I can at least see Tager IB'ing her 5A into a Tager Buster, or Ragna just outright snuffing out everything.
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Alright, here's a bunch of framedisplay side-by-sides. Some of these are trivial, some of them less so. This should be all of their normals. Things with no equivalent aren't compared (6B and 6A/6AA on H-Sei are just by themselves), 5C is there twice (once for 5C v. 5C, once for 5[C] v. 5C), and j.C is there twice (once for j.C, once for j.[C]).
http://imgur.com/a/A83Jq
Also note that this obviously won't show you anything other than hitboxes for normals, so things like how stupidly better C-Sei's 236x is won't be on display.
Unfortunately, C-Sei is just has better options, end of story -- and it doesn't take finding a lot of secret tech to make that obvious. You can tell it just by pressing all the buttons each character has. The biggest problem this chara has is that C-Sei exists, and does the same shit better.
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By far the biggest reason why H is worse than C is the lack of good specials. Slow activation 214s/j.214s means you have a harder time zoning and doing OTG relaunch into bnb. Lack of j.22C means you have much weaker oki. She has way better A normals and meter management too, just to rub it in.
She's not a garbage tier character, but she's a shittier, harder to use, and generally less effective character.
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By far the biggest reason why H is worse than C is the lack of good specials. Slow activation 214s/j.214s means you have a harder time zoning.
Umm, isn't H-Sei generally considered to be a rushdown character? Either that's changed (or was wrong to begin with), or maybe we're trying too hard to play her like C-Sei.
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You mean the one Tonberry posted? Argh, why must everything cool be character specific? Go on, laugh at me. I'm an aesthetics person. If it wasn't for F-Sei having no extensive combo filler and C-Sei having completely uninspired specials, I wouldn't be in this predicament to begin with.
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Len hitboxes make a lot of combos wonky, though. Could only fail on Lens or Nekos.
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"Hmm, our plans to convert him to C-Sei aren't working. Let's make her latest swag combo character specific. It worked last time he was playing F-Sei. God knows how much he hates character specific BnBs."
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Yes,there is a trick to it,and I can't for the life of me figure it out.