C-Seifuku Akiha/Azaka

[Benny1]

It has come to my attention that every single normal this character has is a kick.

I must play her.  What sorts of things are you guys doing?  I haven't played her against any actual people yet, so I need to do that at some point, since theory-fighting lol.

Things that seem useful are 236B neutral on block, 5B neutral, -1 2C.  236C is a good reset on block too.  5A and 2A have anti-A armor.

Her damage seems to be nothing more than average, though.  I can't think of EX combos to improve it either.  Normal bnb I run is
(5A) (2A) 5B 2B 6B 5C 2C 6C j.CB ad.AB dj.BC airthrow.

EX stuff I've worked out is

(5A) (2A) 5B 2B 6B 5C 2C 6C 236C j.ABC dj.BC airthrow.
But that isn't much more damage.  I tried stuff with a 6C tk.236C but it didn't work out too well.  Typically ended up too far.

In the corner, if you're good at links
(5A) (2A) 5B 6B 5C 236C 6B 5C 2C 6C j.ABC dj.BC ad.B airthrow.
This is a worthy ex combo, over 5k on Arc, it seems.  Need to be close though.

On a jumpin that is blocked, 214A is a frametrap that is very + frames and will punish any sort of a flinch, if they pretty much perfectly time a counter 5A mash, they'll CH you and get hit at the same time.

Does anybody play her?  I hear people say she is shit so lol.  But those kicks, I want them

[mizuki]

One thing I do know with this character is she has great aerial movement, she can do some bootleg VAkiha run away. I honestly think she's more suited for fighting Wara/Nero, but it may just be a gimmick and H/F is better in the long run. She loses the one thing that made H/F stand out which was 22 series , but it looks like she'd have no real legit way of landing it with her move sets. I know that her j.c crosses up, but it's not easy like F cross up, and my memory is fuzzy because it's late for me, but I think she has the regular Akiha air dash, and not the Vakiha air dash like H has, which kind of sucks. She also doesn't have the arc crossup dash does she? (I have no real access to this game.)

[Benny1]

Her airdash is the Akiha style one, yeah.  No crossup, either.

And yeah, her j.C crossup is weak, it doesn't work on a lot of characters really, it's sad.

You can dash and do 5C and teleport through characters though!  That's really useful.  Really.

I need to try playing her against somebody, but it looks like I'm going to run a Seifuku Akiha, it'll probably end up being H-S.Akiha.  This character has wonderfully beautiful kicks, but nothing else is that great.

[mizuki]

So, against my greater judgement, I decided to mess with her a bit more. Whenever I bring up S.Akiha around Zar he always says how great her movement is and other things, so that motivated me to try out some stuff with her.

She does massive ammounts of guard bar damage, like 2 reps of a blockstring, their guardbar is DONE, and since she has far moving normals, it's not too hard to keep pressure going, I think I'm starting to actually like this moon more than H. She has insane pressure, really good movement and air control too. I'm starting to think C may be the best S.Akiha.

[Benny1]

Where I'm really struggling with this character is her normals or something.  5C is really really sick with its forwards movement, but the other moves are giving me trouble trying to get in on people.  Her ground dash speed sort of helps with this, but what hurts the most is trying to get a jump-in on people.  Even j.C doesn't work as well as I thought it would, maybe I should mess with j.A more...

Her pressure though seems pretty solid, and 236B is really, really awesome.  As is 236C.  Pretty much worth saving meter for those.  And her arc drive being completely safe doesn't hurt.

[mizuki]

A decent blockstring I made up, seems pretty decent.

j.a xx j.22b (land) 5b 6b 5c 22a 2c 6c 5a dash 5b 5c 236 b 2c 5a repeat

There's tons of anti-2a poking in the string, and if you have good enough hit confirming skills, a lot of the gaps can give you a decent damage bnb.

What's cool is about 1-2 char spaces away, do a 236b wait a second then 2c. If they try and poke out or whatever because they're twitchy they'll eat the 2c and you can go int 6c bnb, if they block it (which they should) 236b keeps them pinned.

[Benny1]

I didn't think about it, but 5A has to be shielded high and 2A has to be shielded low, since they aren't mashable.  Not overly important but can be important occasionally.  This game adds a lot of moves that have to be shielded high even though they hit low, lol.  It's kind of funny.

Also, I need to learn how to use her pits, really.  I've been having trouble wrapping my head around them and I think that might be pretty important.

[Tech Romancer]

I'm wrapping my brain around this character as well; here's some casuals I've had recently:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ergeniz#p/u/7/-zx5HbH6ZF8

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ergeniz#p/u/5/ydV2Ub-T7l4

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ergeniz#p/u/39/aJ5ekCXQ5AU (second match)

Some things I've noticed...

GOOD

* Solid damage output on bnb; its like 4K on Sion/high defense characters, so at least she is okay when she lands a hit. You can increase this slightly with the meter variant by using 623C
* As noted before, movement is better than regular Akiha
* Solid defense modifier
* pits and columns are all air unblockable
* Command grab
* 214C is excellent full screen punisher, comes out very quickly
* 623's are good air defense, better and more easily used than normal Akiha; 623C is one of the best reversals I've seen besides my Ries
* Heat/Blood Heat command grab has tons of invincibility....

BAD

*....But requires you to be point blank for it to connect or it fails completely
* dunno about the obsession with everything being kicks, but her normals suck; I believe she has trouble with faster rushdown characters and she has problems getting pressure because 2A is slow and furthermore, not chainable into itself
* columns are as stated air unblockable, but VERY unsafe on whiff, at certain distances and if the opponent gets around them, miss it and your ass is wide open to retaliation as she sits there FOREVER (no positive frames like normal Akiha 214B   ), slightly better if you use them in the air however
* 236s are strange, I need more time to get used to them but they seem easier to get over or under; however they do have longer range than normal Akiha; however sucks you can't combo off them, they're unsafe or neutral on block and you can't TK them for oki combos
* jump ins generally suck, especially with characters that have good AA normals and fish for CHs; generally J.A is best and since you CAN chain it multiple times in the air you can combo off this, also okay for ticking, however I see no real cross-up potential and her B is fucking odd in that it points UPWARD

I def see some potential tho and I love Akiha, plus I hear you're not a true MB player until you pick up a Lolicon, so sticking with it.

[Tech Romancer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5hg6EyM7AQ

casual I had today.

[LivingShadow]

I've been playing around with C-SAkiha out of curiosity. She's a lot harder to work with than my main (C-Ryougi) but she has some interesting tools.

This hasn't been mentioned yet, but releasing the flamepits is chargable. It makes the flametower appear twice (3 times for the EX). The b version of the pit follows the opponent for 2 jumps and the EX version follows for a few seconds. I'd also like to add that the a pit cancels c attacks.

The thing about all her attacks being kicks is that her normals are deceptive, for example: her 5a is a low while her 2b is a mid. Which is probably just gimmicks against whoever has no experience against her yet.

As a whole I think she's a guard crush character with some keepaway mixed in.. Her normals accumulate guard damage fairly quickly and ,as said before, it takes around 2 reps of a blockstring to kill their guard bar. Her flametowers seem like a fairly good option for punishers (but those - frames) and the flamepit seems like an antiair to me.

[AARP|ZTB]

Cool thread so far. Picked up a lot of info here and from the combo thread in the Saki forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxEzSL-nies
This vid helped a lot too. The BEJC combos/setups (which are waaay too fucking hard btw) are very interesting and imo makes up for a lot of what this character is missing. There are just a few things about the above video that I wanted to point out:

-@ 00:51
aerial>BEJC>22A>ardsh>JC

I'm not too sure about what's being show here. It seems like a solid setup but it certainly does NOT set up a meaty JC hit and leave Saki open to reversals and escapes. I did how ever manage to revise it a bit so that you can keep the opponent still on wakeup and still go for mixup after:

aerial>BEJC>22A>immediate ignition (hit's meaty)>ardsh>High JC(JB) OR JC(5A)

Or you can setup the BEJC fuzzy a bit more effectively using:

aerial>BEJC>22A>BE22X (doesnt hit meaty)>ardsh>BEJC(JBAA) (fuzzy) OR whiff BEJC(land>2A)


One setup that I came up with (that may need a bit more testing) uses J214 as a meaty:

aerial>BEJ8C>JA (miss)>late J214A (near landing)

This setup will give frame advantage on landing and let you setup other frame traps and tick throws from there.


Here's a cool trick I picked up from Mizuki and built on:

Standing over BE22X and pressing shield will cause the pit to ignite. By using kara throw with D button, CSaki can go for throw attempt and ignite the pit at the same time as long as she is standing over it:

22X>4/6[D]~A OR 4/6D~E (Dmg nets about 2k if throw lands)


After getting in some match exp. recently, I started to notice a few things about C-S.Akiha that should be dramatically improved:

-22X: using Mizuki's discovery, I noticed that shielding over the pit will only ignite it at a certain point i.e. from the middle of the circle to the back end but NOT the front end...why? =/
-Should be able to set another pit as 22x is igniting or at least restrict it to BE22X and being able to set new pit during ignition.
-623A/B should be a one hit move. This would allow her to score followups (AND DAMAGE) after successfully landing it as a one-hit CH anti-air (which I landed A LOT in my matches).
-22x's should have added effect or something. Maybe receive more guard dmg when opponent is standing on it =/. I really can't find any solid uses for this move (A/B versions) in her neutral game.
-Hitboxes on 22 ignite should seriously be a bit wider =/


http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8809367
Some matches of me getting blown up if anyone is interested. I'm still in the process of trying to figure out how the character would be played most effectively as there are very few vids to reference so it's mostly me just running around like a chicken w/o its head.  
Hope this generates ideas for ppl so that I can steal them lol

[AARP|ZTB]

I'd also like to add that the a pit cancels c attacks.

...Please elaborate on this in the fullest detail possible.

EDIT:

so there's this stupid bug involving BE22 ignition where if you do charged ignition (air or ground) then try to set a new pit in air as the initial pillar goes off, akiha will attempt to ignite the same pit again (*can be done with charged attempt too). This bug is also absolutely useless...

Now I'm really curious about CC changes and whether or not this damn character got some useful buffs.

[mizuki]

Good shit, nice to see something I (actually) discover is being used and expanded on.

[arvy]

Some random combo for C-S.akiha .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuJiVEWGUMI#t=1m48s

[AARP|ZTB]

Probably vs Nero only. He gets hit by all sorts of crazy shit lol.

[LivingShadow]

I'd also like to add that the a pit cancels c attacks.

...Please elaborate on this in the fullest detail possible.

In a blockstring say 5a5b6b5c22a the 5c will cancel into the 22a with almost no lag (I'm not entirely sure, it feels just as fast as an EX cancel. However, it's definitely much faster than dropping the b pit). That's only dropping the pit it and places the pit right in front of the blocking character (if you just run up and throw you should drop them right on top of it).

My conclusion after testing a bit more is the following. Either:

a: 22a just has a really short startup and it isn't a cancel and 
b: 22a can be canceled into mid-blockstring.

I'm thinking b.

[AARP|ZTB]

anyone have frame data for csaki. I recall someone saying this info was in one of the guide books. Also wondering if she even received any changes in CC...

[LivingShadow]

Given enough boredom I could produce the PS2 data. I presume you want all attack data.

[AARP|ZTB]

yes...every bit of it.

[LivingShadow]

I'll get as much as the framedisplay can provide.

Startup, Active, Recovery, Damage, VS Damage, Meter Gain, Guard Level, and Proration.

[AARP|ZTB]

how about adv/disadv on hit/guard??

[AARP|ZTB]

ok so bej.c combos arent so hard once you figure out youre not supposed to exceed 11hits for it to work (lol).

Also csaki has to be easily one of the worst charas in the game. Fun as hell but i dont expect to win much (if at all) using this moon.

[Greg]

ok so bej.c combos arent so hard once you figure out youre not supposed to exceed 11hits for it to work (lol).

Also csaki has to be easily one of the worst charas in the game. Fun as hell but i dont expect to win much (if at all) using this moon.

Is that really what it is? I was messing around with her the other day and was whiffing 'em like 80% of them time. Had no idea why.

[LivingShadow]

I don't know enough to be able to calculate advantage, no hitstun data.

Code: [Select]

Normals

Motion Startup Active Recovery Damage VS Damage Meter Gain Guard Level Proration
5a 5 4 12 350 200 3.5% L 75%
5b 8 4 12 700 400 7.0% L 85%
5[c] 27 4 34 1100 700 11.0% H 60%
5c 10 4 18 800 700 8.0% L, H 90%
2a 6 4 10 350 200 3.5% L 75%
2b 8 4 10 600 400 6.0% L,H 85%
2c 13 6 13 850 600 8.0% L 60%
j.a 6 4 8 300 200 3.0% L, H, A 75%
j.b 7 5 Land 600 350 6.0% H, A 90%
j.[c] 20 7 Land 1200 1000 12.0% H, A 85%
j.c 10 4 Land 800 500 8.0% H, A 85%
6b 8 4 12 550 250 10.0% L, H 100%
6c 10 4 22 500 300 5.0% L, H 80%
214d 23 4 24 500 200 10.0% L, H 100%
Throw 10 18 1500 1000

Specials

Motion Startup Active Recovery Damage VS Damage Meter Gain Guard Level Proration
214a 15+5 16 15-5 600 400 9.0% L, H 90%
214b 17+5 16 13-5 600 400 9.0% L, H 90%
214c 17+5 16 13-5 600 400 0.0% L, H 90%
62314c  6 1 33 0 0 0.0% None 35%
j.22x 16 land
22a 9 19
22b 19 18
22c 11 22
j.Activ 23
Activ 26 700 500 7.0% L, H, A 75%
623a 11+5 3 24-9 750 400 7.5% L, H 80%
623b 26+5 3 26-9 750 400 7.5% L, H 80%
623c 35+5 3 23-9 400 200 0.0% L, H 96%
236a 10+3 10 40-17 800 500 8.0% L, H, A 75%
236b 22+3 10 36-17 800 500 8.0% L, H, A 75%
236c 15+3 12 38-15 450 250 0.0% L, H, A 90%
j.236a 14+3 10 land 800 500 8.0% L, H, A 75%
j.236b 9+3 10 land 800 500 8.0% L, H, A 75%
j.236c 9+3 12 land 450 250 0.0% L, H, A 90%
j.214a 11+13 16 land 600 400 6.0% L, H 90%
j.214b 11+13 16 land 600 400 6.0% L, H 90%
j.214c 11+13 16 land 600 400 0.0% L, H 90%
AD grab 57 1 450 300 0.0% 50%
AD whiff82+23 2 48-25 1500 1200 12.0% L, H, A 100%
AAD grab57 1 550 350 0.0% 50%
AADwhiff82+23 2 48-25

All multihit attacks have active and damage listed as per hit.

I'd like to point out that the DPs and Flametowers are air unblockable.

[AARP|ZTB]

^
appreciate the data post. Some of the data seems a bit 'off' though. Like normal throw being 10f (?) and the AD throw being 57f (I was able to combo 214a>AD).

Aside from that the data has educated me a bit more on how horrible this chara is. Light attacks being 5-6f and a 6f cmd throw is kinda harsh. Really hope the devs sit down and work some buffs into this moon in particular for cc2. There are a lot of nitpicky downsides to the chara that seem to pile up into one giant bag of suck. Love the design/mechanics but shes so underwhelming and overbalanced.

EDIT
also preemptive hi-5 to whoever is able to get their hands on the block/hit adv info. 623b is +f to get started lol