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Author Topic: C-Nanaya General Discussion  (Read 20703 times)

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Offline Sashi

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2013, 10:58:20 AM »
623C~C (and 623B~B) can have the oki ender delayed until the later hits. That's what I meant by 623C(6)~C. A 6 hit 623C into the two hit ender. Depends on spacing, though.

As for teching, chances are that if you're allowed to tech, you're ALLOWED to tech. It's a different case if they drop their combo (sometimes) but not teching is generally the safer option if you're not sure.

In the j.B land j.BC dj.BC combo, you're not actually jump cancelling. You're just jumping. Same thing for when you do a 5BB 22C air combo. You're not jump cancelling 22C, so you can do a jump cancel before doing it if you wanted to.
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2013, 09:01:21 PM »
Practicing meterless corner BnB 4C>214B>j.22>214B>2c>214A against VSion. Why does my second 214B wallbound instead of launch like it's supposed to?

Offline Sashi

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 02:30:17 AM »
Okay, I got it down consistently after a bit of practice. I'm waiting until they fall right next to Nanaya. So basically, delaaaaay. It's not really a hard timing, but too fast it'll do the wallslam instead of the launcher and too slow they'll tech out. It looks like you have to change up the timing depending on the hitbox of the character you're hitting.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 02:32:16 AM by Sacchin 22A »
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2013, 05:55:07 PM »
Thanks guys, I can't believe a 5 hit combo would require this much effort.

Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 11:54:58 AM »
Umm, guys? I'm encountering a semi-rare, but tad annoying problem with 2B>5C>2C>22C>5BB>j.BCA>sdj.BC>AT again. It happens most often with Kouma, and involves my first j.B only hitting once? Am I attacking too early? Jumping too late? What's the issue here? It's throwing off my timing pretty badly.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 11:41:37 AM by hipikachu »

Offline Sashi

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 12:07:42 PM »
If you mean 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C, it's probably that you're doing 5BB too fast. Delay it and it'll work more consistently. You want to hit them as they're about to hit the floor. Also, Kouma has a dumb air hitbox that ruins combos a lot. Works fine if you delay 5BB enough, though.

EDIT: By the way, this is where the stable air combo comes in handy. Also, don't need to let j.B hit twice. It adds minimal damage and meter.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:10:00 PM by Sacchin 22A »
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2013, 12:24:56 PM »
If you mean 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C, it's probably that you're doing 5BB too fast. Delay it and it'll work more consistently.

You may also try to partial charge the 5BB (ie. 5B{B}) instead of 5B (delay) B if that is easier to time. Also, 2C delay 5B will help.

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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2013, 10:52:20 PM »
If you mean 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C, it's probably that you're doing 5BB too fast. Delay it and it'll work more consistently.

You may also try to partial charge the 5BB (ie. 5B{B}) instead of 5B (delay) B if that is easier to time. Also, 2C delay 5B will help.

-TexasTim-
Wait, there's a partial charge?  :emo: *facepalm

Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2013, 06:17:08 PM »
Hey guys, speaking of which, how are our relative matchups with rest of the cast? Any significantly bad ones I should know about? Discuss.

Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2013, 03:10:51 PM »
So, whaddoido against Ciel? I'm not new to fighting games, so I can deal with projectiles easily most of the time, but for some reason, it feels like all of her moves out-prioritize me. Badly. I'm playing someone occasionally mashes 2CC, only to have:
<1> Me get anti-aired by the second part
<2> Him cancel it into a backdash, rendering it unpunishable.
Also, I sometimes get called out during projectile strings when I try to jump out, get hit by a delayed flame sword, and netting me a clean boom>Hiero.

2A mash oki and grabs for the win.

Offline Inso

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2013, 06:50:11 PM »
lol, that takes me back to Cadenza days... oh Ciel, how I hated you back then.

Well, you mentioned hiero so I'm assuming C. The thing to note is, there is a rock-paper-scissors to every fighting game, and you will need to take risks against players who gamble like that. Just remember to think about risk/reward and the right counter to the move he's using.

I don't see Ciels nowadays but I don't think 2C is a good move to mash, good pressure is the key here. Stagger, reverse beat and IAD. If I'm not mistaken 2CC isn't cancelable on whiff, right? Shouldnt be hard to let him hang himself on neutral. You have charged teleport to punish his projectiles if he abuses it.

Mashing loses to meaty, but if he is mashing on wakeup and you're letting him, I'll assume you're afraid of reversals. There are ways to beat reversals, one is reversing controls (which nanaya can do easily, but in her case it's worthless - 236C <> 214C, 22C) one is option select (won't work on EXs), which leaves you only with baiting.

22C and 236C lose to block, 214C loses to jump behind or shield->jump get air hit (recover towards her and then punish). You'll notice that all of those are meter dependant, so do what you can to deny her meter and if she is out of it go for oki without fear. The thing is, you can't do meaty and block at the same time, so you'll have to make sure that when he guesses wrong you're gonna hit him harder than he will you when he guesses right, which is not hard.

Then if he starts gambling shield or backdash on wakeup, you're gonna have to outsmart him with high/low oki or bait and OS's.

tl;dr practice pressure to objectively beat 2CC mashing, bait neutral 2CC, practice punish combos for blocked reversals and make sure your yomi is on point. Also, if he is predictable whith 2CC, shield/DP can help you too.

PS: you can low profile 22B with 2A/B/C oki if I'm not mistaken, so I didn't even acknowledge that as a reversal.

Maybe someone else (butterfree?) can provide better insights since it's been a while since I played C-7ya or that matchup, lol
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Offline Sashi

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2013, 07:19:03 PM »
Can't be helped. CNana is terrible in neutral. As for Ciel's 2CC, you should have more than enough time to punish it. Its recovery is garbage and it's not cancelable on block. Just make sure you don't do it too early. Even if you don't react in time and she backdashes, you can catch her with 2C or 214B. You can just do a 5B in her face when she's falling from 2CC, though, and get an easy combo. I don't know why you always in a situation where you're getting anti aired by it, though.

EDIT: Can't reverse beat 2CC anymore 'cause she goes airborne before it hits. :v
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 07:22:29 PM by Sacchin 22A »
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2013, 05:10:33 AM »
Trust me, I'm not afraid of DP-ing her, it's just that I simply can't. My pad can't read DP motions all too well, due to a design flaw. Maybe it's just bad lag (using Hamachi), but whenever I dash 5B or even 214B if I'm desperate after a 2CC on her end, I somehow always fly into her backdash invul, netting her a free whiff punish. Also, most of the time I get 2CC'd, is when I'm falling after BE22B, it somehow beat's out my falling j.C. I'll upload a replay some other time if I get the chance.

I know I should have an easier time than I am right now, but especially when it come down to lag, me not being able to followup after 214B while her combos are still fine and dandy do screw me over in the end. I mean, I can hardly perform the 623C corner BnB online, despite being able to do it blindfolded offline.

Offline Sashi

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2013, 08:51:03 AM »
Well, the problem is her doing a dp when you're performing oki. 22C ignores your side switching, so she can dp when other characters have a hard time doing it.

You can do a 5B without dashing if you block 2CC. It has like 40f of recovery. If it whiffs, you can dash 2C and catch it really easily if you wait for her to do the flip in her backdash before doing 2C. So dash and block and then 2C when he backdashes.

As for 22[B], you can just do a jump/airdash/iad to bait her 2CC and then fast fall and hit her in the face. It's near impossible to beat 2CC from straight up, but j.C can beat it if you're a bit farther from her horizontally. It's probably a bad idea in general to challenge it from the air 'cause it's active forever, though. Plus, if you trade, it's heavily in her favor and she gets a 4k combo.

The main problem is probably that you're too obvious with 22[B]. See if you can bait out a 2CC by doing a 22C. Or just use it very sparingly. 22[B] is a good move, but if you use it predictably, you can even just get j.A'd as you come out of it.
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2013, 11:02:02 AM »
I'll try putting this to good use next time I vs the guy. BTW, what's the optimal way to combo into Nanaya's AD? Also, I hear that you can even combo after it in the corner. Other than miraculously hitting a person who's attempting to jump out, I've yet to get this to work.

EDIT: Never mind. I played around a bit in training mode and found the answer. Looks like the combo thread is getting another update.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 11:39:59 AM by hipikachu »

Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2013, 03:47:08 PM »
I like seeing the boards active, so I'm gonna throw 2 things out here:

<1> The "Nanaya-style anti-air." What is it, and what makes it famous?
<2> How does his 623B compare with Inferno Divider? I know this may seem off-topic, but I have often been mashing 623B in situations where ID would work, but to no avail. Aren't they both invul from startup?

Offline Sashi

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C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2013, 03:53:25 PM »
5AAAAAA

Also:
j.AAAAAA

You can 623B through a lot, but multi hit moves (Nero 5[C] for example) beat it up if they're spaced properly. What's happening when you're doing it? Are people beating you out after it comes out?

EDIT: It's not the multihit, but that the move has active frames last until the invuln on your 623B run out. So if your 623B's active frames are clashed or whiffed, you get beat up by the rest of the active frames of their attack.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 04:01:46 PM by Sashi »
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2013, 09:06:19 AM »
5AAAAAA
Also:
j.AAAAAA
Deja Vu.

You can 623B through a lot, but multi hit moves (Nero 5[C] for example) beat it up if they're spaced properly. What's happening when you're doing it? Are people beating you out after it comes out?
I'm pretty sure it's on my end, since I often end up with 236C on wakeup. I can't tell though, because I don't see anything comeout, other than the "Counterhit" notification. If it's anything like ID though, it shouldn't give a damn about meaties. I usually get called out with 623B on wakeup after a Ciel air-throws me at the end of a combo, and attempts to dive. Sometimes I can beat them out, sometimes I can't.

Offline Sashi

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2013, 09:41:30 AM »
That's probably an execution error. Your 623B has 15 invuln frames (6 are active) before you have any green box. The way the buffer works, you can do 623 ahead of time, then time B 4f or less before you wake up.

EDIT: Try practising with this. Just put it in your DummyRep folder. Go into Training with FRyougi as the opponent, position yourself so that you're in the corner, and set it to Dummy with Slot 10. She'll come at you and knock you down. If your wake up 623B was on time, you fly right pass her. If it's not, you get hit.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 10:24:02 AM by Sashi »
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2013, 11:05:59 AM »
Yeah, I thought so. This stupid pad I'm using can't read 2 inputs, only 1 and 3, so a I'm having a weird time with DPs, hence the 236C on wakeup. Thanks for the info about the 4 frame buffer though.

Offline Inso

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2013, 04:14:44 AM »
Man, you should get a new pad already. x_x
I think you can find some cheap ones for as much as $5 on amazon or something.
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2013, 11:15:49 AM »
$5 on amazon or something.

Guess where I got my pad from.  :-\

Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2013, 05:03:45 PM »
After having a slice of the good life (also known as C-Sei), I've noticed my Nanaya neutral is severely lacking, especially when it comes to spacing.  I've decided to pick a random vid I found on Youtube to analyze and critique on, as I find my own situation rather similar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilwC3sdmutI
Can anybody point out what the Nanaya here should've done instead? In terms of neutral of course, not yomi.

Offline Sashi

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2013, 06:12:10 PM »
Yeah, that video is less bad neutral and more the Nanaya player probably being just inexperienced. Looked like he just did high commitment stuff randomly hoping to get a hit.
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: C-Nanaya General Discussion
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2013, 04:54:29 PM »
Wait guys, if C-Nanaya oki is that miserable, why ever 2C>214A midscreen? If the chances of a reset are hardly better than an airthrow, might as well go for damage.