Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Current Code => Shiki Nanaya => : hipikachu March 17, 2013, 11:01:09 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Hi guys, I'm new here, but we seriously do need some moon-specific threads. I'm somewhat new to Melty Blood as a whole, but am experienced with other anime fighters such as BB and GG. I hope you guys can show me how it's done here.
To start off, can anyone offer any advice regarding these problems:
2C>5C>jc>j.BC>AD>j.B>dj>j.BC>AT
I'm pretty sure this can be done, but the air dash keeps screwing me over.
stuff>2C>5BB>22C>jc>j.B>stuff
I don't understand how 22C brings the opponent any lower. I can do this link, just not consistently. Nanaya's j.B has some really awkward hitbox, and has issues linking into j.C at lower heights
Applying pressure
Ground overheads in this game seems difficult to land, and 214A cannot be combo'ed from IIRC. My mixup is somewhat limited, and my pressure is pathetic. How does one maintain and reset pressure without being pushed out of range? What blockstring enders does one use?
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For the j.BC j.66B dj.BC, the important thing is to keep them low and close. The way I do it is 2C (delay as much as possible) 5C j.9B(2)C j.66B dj.BC. Honestly, I don't see this as being worth it. If you're after carry, just do dj.BC dj.66A, which I find much easier. Damage isn't exactly something to write home about either.
As for the 22C stuff, it's only lower than doing the 5BB combos normally. You'd usually have to do the special neutral super jump cancel from 5BB. That means you airthrow from higher and land slower. With this, you can do a normal jump. As for why you'd do a 5BB combo in the first place, it's so you can do 5C 2C instead of 2C 5C, which does far less damage.
EDIT: As for blockstring enders, whiff a 5A. CNana has a lot of moves that move him forward. Good blockstring moves are 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C... Meaning ALL YOUR MOVES. Do stuff like 5CA, 5{C}2B, 5A6E, 5B[B]22C, etc. CNanaya blockstrings are the hardest to learn 'cause they're so good. You have so many options that it takes a lot of experience to know what to do in a situation. In general, you want to whiff cancel (or 22C) your slow normals and get back in there with a 2B, dash, IAD, etc. CNana pressure isn't really a high/low mixup game, though, so don't feel like you have to throw an overhead every so often. It's more of a "I hate this game" type of pressure, 'cause you stay in there with frametraps for hours.
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I see now, thanks a lot! Seeing the dates of the last activity on these boards, I was afraid this ghost town wouldn't yield any results for weeks. Thanks again for the fast reply. Just wondering, how do you guarantee a full j.BC>j.BC>AT string off a 22C>jc? The opponent seems to tech rather high in the air, while Nanaya's air normals mostly hit downwards.
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The first j.BC should be fine if you spend a few minutes getting the timing down. The second part, you can do a super jump cancel. Just do 29 to do the double jump. Should make the rest of the combo trivial. If you can't get the airthrow, you can do an empty airdash before you airthrow. That said, you don't really need the 22C. You can save the 22C tech for when you're doing longer combos. Stuff like
2B 5C 2C 214B (close, sideswapping version, so time it when 2C brings you close) dash back in 2A 5BB 22C j.BC j.BC Airthrow or 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C 236C 2C 214A. Longer combos increases gravity which makes them drop lower and makes the first one easier. The second one doesn't even require for you to pick them up with a jump.
EDIT: By the way, I don't actually play Nanaya, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
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stuff>2C>5BB>22C>jc>j.B>stuff
I don't understand how 22C brings the opponent any lower. I can do this link, just not consistently. Nanaya's j.B has some really awkward hitbox, and has issues linking into j.C at lower heights
I'll just add my 2 cents about this, since I actually get asked this question a lot. First, let me say that you are not jump canceling the 22C, it is a link. It's not so much that the opponent is any lower, as Nanaya is lower and can avoid a rebeat penalty in the air string. Nanaya being lower means he lands a little faster after AT, and so you have a little more advantage. The link it self is not hard, but if they are teching, you may be jumping too late, attacking too late, or they may be too high b/c you did not build sufficient gravity in the ground string. I don't think you can use 22C this way off every confirm. You need gravity, but I'm not sure exactly how many hits you need for that gravity.
-TexasTim-
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Right, about the number of hits, I'd say 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C (5 hits) is the boundary between difficult and easy. I drop it from a 2B starter occasionally, but if I do a 2A beforehand (6 hits) it's pretty much impossible to drop.
The effective range of 2C in combos is pretty short, so if you are trying to confirm a max range 2B (a situation when you aren't using a 2A starter), you wouldn't be using this combo anyways. Again, I don't play CNana, but I'd imagine that at max 2B range, you'd do the 214B corner combo (2B 5C 214B TKj.22 214B 2C 214A) or 2B 5C 214B (you can IAD into more stuff if you're close enough). At close range you'd probably do 5BC 2CB j.BCA sdj.BC66 Airthrow or the sideswap 214B combo.
So basically, what I'm saying is that I don't really use 22C in combos except to connect a 236C or for a 214B sideswap combo. Then again, my Nanaya is the worst.
EDIT: Never mind, even 2C 5BB 22C (3 hits) is braindead easy if you delay the 5BB enough. I guess you should just delay 5BB. :V
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Thanks guys, I was aware it wasn't a jump cancel, but I use "jc" to annotate any point in a combo where you have to jump, force of habit I guess. The tip about the gravity really helped though, this is my first time with such a mechanism.
So another couple things, if you guys don't mind.
<1> What DO I do with Cheese Slicer? I'm hoarding meter right now solely for 623C in the corner, but I'm clueless on advanced meter combos midscreen.
<2> Likewise, is our meterless corner combo really 2C>214B>j.22>2C>214A? It seems kinda unrewarding considering the execution. Perhaps some super meaty 50/50 oki setup?
<3> I'm on netplay, and I actually have difficulty teching, such as after an invalid Ciel 214B>Hiero. In Blazblue, we mashed to tech, and that works fine in the air in this game. However, I am constantly plaqued by ground knockdowns and air-unblockables, both which should be more than easy to avoid.
<4> Does A mashing beat grabs in this game? Because grab oki seems stupidly effective for some reason.
EDIT:
2C 5BB 22C (3 hits) is braindead easy if you delay the 5BB enough. I guess you should just delay 5BB. :V
Even against Neco-Arc? Some characters in this game have stupid hitboxes.
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1. 236A is a decent blockstring tool. I think it's -1 or neutral on block. You can move during it too, so you can space yourself so that your 2B beats their 2A clean. 236B can be used to setup his AAD, I believe. Pretty sure it's just gimmick tier. As for combos, you're out of luck.
2. (5B) 2B 5C 214B TKj.22 214B 2C 214A is the most practical combo you're gonna get. You can 29 j.22 for a 50/50. Or you can walk forward a tiny bit 29 IAD for a strange 50/50 mixup that no one does. You can go for damage combos instead, of course.
3. Air techs are a 4/5/6+A/B/C . Ground techs are just 4/8/6. Invalid doesn't mean that you can tech, but rather that you could have teched sometime in the past, so even if it says invalid, you're probably still gotta be in an untechable knockdown. Generally, you want to tech at parts in their combos when you think they might drop it. C/F Satsuki 623[A] j.[C], FArc 236B 2C, C/F Sion j.[C] j.[C], etc. Eventually, you learn where a character usually drops a combo and know when you're likely to be able to tech. 'Cause normally, if you're allowed to tech, it's probably a trap. You tech Hisui's air combo? You just air teched against Tager while magnetized.
4. Mashing 2A beats grabs probably 90% of the time. On wakeup, it should beat grabs 100% of the time (except maybe for characters like FRyougi or Himes who have 7-8f 2As). Also, when you wake up, you have a few (4? 6? 8?) frames of throw invuln. Same for after you leave blockstun.
EDIT: It's okay, most combos whiff on NA. Shouldn't worry about it.
EDIT: Actually, it works fine on NA. It's actually easier. Maybe there'll be problems with Ryougi, Riesbyfe, or Kouma, 'cause they have strange air hitboxes.
EDIT: Also forgot to mention 623BB combos. Worth considering if you're cornered and you managed to poke out. Just do some forward moving at the end and 623BB.
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3. Air techs are a 4/5/6+A/B/C . Ground techs are just 4/8/6. Invalid doesn't mean that you can tech, but rather that you could have teched sometime in the past, so even if it says invalid, you're probably still gotta be in an untechable knockdown.
Exactly, but I really should not be failing to tech as many times as I have. Back to the Ciel 214B>Hiero example; it's a two-hit link, and invalid. Therefore, I should be able to easily tech out of the 214B, block immediately, and punish Hiero. However, it doesn't work out for me like that. Should I be mashing 8 whenever I'm in hitstun? I'm not used to have to use seperate techs for the ground and air specifically.
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I don't know what you mean by Ciel 214B ExHiero. Do you mean if it hits you out of the air?
EDIT: Eh, the point of that question is that you'd need to do 8+A or something like that if you're teching from the air. Air is pressing an attack button with optional direction input (4 and 6). Ground is just 4, 6, or 8 for back, forward, and neutral tech.
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EDIT: Also forgot to mention 623BB combos. Worth considering if you're cornered and you managed to poke out. Just do some forward moving at the end and 623BB.
You can combo off of 623BB? I thought that was Full Moon only. Also, is 5[C] and 5B[B ] the only overheads you can combo off of?
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No, but it's a reasonable combo ender since it throws them behind you.
And yes, 5B[B] and 5[C] are your overhead combo starters. Jump ins too, of course.
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This seems more like a "Help hipikachu" thread than a general discussion~
I also seem to have a lot more success with Half-Moon in terms of picking up and playing though. Not only is 5B a good poke thats safe on block, I can easily reset pressure with 214B mid blockstring. Not to mention his combos are more damaging, easier to pull off, and have better oki with meter. Is this to be expected?
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Pretty expected. H has a way better time in neutral than C. You can do a lot with C, but it takes a lot more effort. H is very simple and does a ton of damage.
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I found this in the Wiki:
(Corner) 2B 5C 214B 9 j.B j.BC j.BC AT
How is this possible :psyduck:
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You jump cancel the 214B (wallslam version) and do a late j.B, land, then jump and pick them up with j.B and continue the combo.
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<2> Likewise, is our meterless corner combo really 2C>214B>j.22>2C>214A? It seems kinda unrewarding considering the execution. Perhaps some super meaty 50/50 oki setup?
His double 214B stuff does good damage, but a lot of chars in this game have to sacrifice damage for oki.
<3> I'm on netplay, and I actually have difficulty teching, such as after an invalid Ciel 214B>Hiero. In Blazblue, we mashed to tech, and that works fine in the air in this game. However, I am constantly plaqued by ground knockdowns and air-unblockables, both which should be more than easy to avoid.
For ground techs, you can hold the direction to tech. For air techs, you have to time direction + button. And, if you are teching before a hiero, chances are, you are going to get tech punished by the hiero.
<4> Does A mashing beat grabs in this game? Because grab oki seems stupidly effective for some reason.
4. Mashing 2A beats grabs probably 90% of the time. On wakeup, it should beat grabs 100% of the time (except maybe for characters like FRyougi or Himes who have 7-8f 2As). Also, when you wake up, you have a few (4? 6? 8?) frames of throw invuln. Same for after you leave blockstun.
In general mashing on wake-up in going to beat throws, since melty has throw protection on wake-up which lasts 8 frames after wake-up. and you do NOT benefit from throw protection after block stun, you just cannot throw people in block stun. For instance, you get a hard down, you meaty 2A, delay, throw. There wont be time to poke this, as all move have more start-up than throw.
Not only is 5B a good poke thats safe on block, I can easily reset pressure with 214B mid blockstring. Not to mention his combos are more damaging, easier to pull off, and have better oki with meter.
H-moon 214B is not plus on block, so resetting with it will prolly get you mashed out.
-Texas Tim-
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<1> What DO I do with Cheese Slicer? I'm hoarding meter right now solely for 623C in the corner, but I'm clueless on advanced meter combos midscreen.
You can use 236a as an anti air and confirm it into 236c on hit. In the corner you can do blah blah 214b j22 2c 5c 236c 2c 214a.
you do NOT benefit from throw protection after block stun, you just cannot throw people in block stun. For instance, you get a hard down, you meaty 2A, delay, throw. There wont be time to poke this, as all move have more start-up than throw.
>:( There's like 13f of throw protection after blockstun. Anything --> throw will not beat 2a mashing.
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I tried it a few times with Aoko 421 orbs (same concept as a meaty 2A) and I've never had the throw beat a 2A.
EDIT: By the way, I found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmr1sp1mCVQ) video while looking for cool CNana tricks. Didn't know Leo had a solid Cana.
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Guess it's just me then. I can't mash people out of this. I get thrown 100% of the time. I call tick throw and start mashing, and get thrown. I EX-Gaurd C-Arc 5A and start mashing the dash in and still get thrown.
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@ the bolded: I don't get it. Explain.
I typed in 5[C] and 5B[B ]. The [B ] without the space after the 'B', automatically bolds the rest of my sentence for no good reason.
EDIT: Oops, you meant your bolded quote. Well, I know H-Moon 214x not safe per say, but I've been able to use it in frametraps against 2A mashy friends, along with whenever I'm desperate to cover the knockback distance after a long blockstring. While it is punishable on block, it's nowhere near as :bricks:
a blocked C-Moon 214B.
For ground techs, you can hold the direction to tech. For air techs, you have to time direction + button. And, if you are teching before a hiero, chances are, you are going to get tech punished by the hiero.
Wait, I can't air tech, block EX Hiero, and punish with combo? This isn't high-level play I'm talking about. This is my friend having below average execution and dropping a combo, and me not teching out in time.
BTW guys,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ne8KvPvkCHU#t=39s
So it DOES combo into stuff.
Another thing, does shield have any startup? It kinda feels like Hakumen's 5D, which is like 5 frames. It would be nice if I could airtech, and shield air-unblockables immediately.
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Well, it's an AD. It's also spacing dependent. Also does less than 236A 623C(6)~C.
EDIT: Shields are instant. Techs have long recovery, though. In general, teching is bad. Air teching in the corner is especially bad. Teching against characters like Hisui, Len, etc, is super duper bad. IT'S ALWAYS A TRAP!
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236A 623C(6)~C.
623C(6)~C :psyduck:
IT'S ALWAYS A TRAP!
I guess it really must be that bad if high-level players are actually telling me to avoid teching in a competitive fighting game. I still have nightmares of Atomic Collider even though I play Hazama.
You have to hit the first j.B close to the ground then land and immediately buffer a jump into the standard air combo. Pretty sure it's easier if you do an IAD after the forward jump (9). Not sure if it's even worth it though, to be honest.
I thought this game didn't allow you to jump cancel twice within the same combo? Jump cancel after 214B to j.B, and then again after relaunch.
Also, what is the magic oki/meaty I can do off a 214A ender, since everyone is so insistent on using that ender? That, and what is the optimal followup to 5[C]? I'm kinda stuck with 5[C]>5A>air combo right now.
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IT'S ALWAYS A TRAP!
I guess it really must be that bad if high-level players are actually telling me to avoid teching in a competitive fighting game. I still have nightmares of Atomic Collider even though I play Hazama.
There are situations were air teching is a good idea, like when you still have all your air movement. Ground teching almost always can be punished, but you will learn just by playing when it might be a good idea to tech.
You have to hit the first j.B close to the ground then land and immediately buffer a jump into the standard air combo. Pretty sure it's easier if you do an IAD after the forward jump (9). Not sure if it's even worth it though, to be honest.
I thought this game didn't allow you to jump cancel twice within the same combo? Jump cancel after 214B to j.B, and then again after relaunch.
Also, what is the magic oki/meaty I can do off a 214A ender, since everyone is so insistent on using that ender? That, and what is the optimal followup to 5[C]? I'm kinda stuck with 5[C]>5A>air combo right now.
Well you are jump canceling the 214B, but once you hit the j.B and land, you have to link the jump after the short landing recovery into another aerial. So the jump after land is not a jump cancel.
The oki off 214A usually involves super jump fast fall 50/50 mix-ups. Depending on timing of the fast fall and sometimes what super jump you do (29 / 28) you could land on either side of them with j.22. Once you land, you can hit them meaty with the normal of your choice, or go for more risky BE5C or Teleport stuff or tick throw.
What I see most of the time after BE5C is just jump cancel and air combo. But there may be other options involving 236C/623C that get you more damage or a set-up. I'm not so sure on that as I'm not too familiar with this guy.
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I guess it really must be that bad if high-level players are actually telling me to avoid teching in a competitive fighting game. I still have nightmares of Atomic Collider even though I play Hazama.
A number of characters have ground techable enders or moves near the end of their combos that can be ground teched and also have ways to cover numerous tech directions. Here's an example of that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXQ_3FleZhM
It's still usually fine to ground tech if you know your opponent screwed up his combo but otherwise it's a huge risk.
Air techs on the other hand are fine almost all the time.
I thought this game didn't allow you to jump cancel twice within the same combo? Jump cancel after 214B to j.B, and then again after relaunch.
You can't jump cancel off of a ground normal twice within the same combo.
Also, what is the magic oki/meaty I can do off a 214A ender, since everyone is so insistent on using that ender? That, and what is the optimal followup to 5[C]? I'm kinda stuck with 5[C]>5A>air combo right now.
Off 214a ender you can do 29 j44 jC/j22 2b. 66 8 j44 jC. 66 8 land 2b. You can always opt to land throw as well. You can really do almost whatever you want after 214a ender since it gives so much knockdown time.
You can do 5[C] 5B air combo instead. If you're further away you can do 5[C] 236A 236C 2C 214A.
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623C~C (and 623B~B) can have the oki ender delayed until the later hits. That's what I meant by 623C(6)~C. A 6 hit 623C into the two hit ender. Depends on spacing, though.
As for teching, chances are that if you're allowed to tech, you're ALLOWED to tech. It's a different case if they drop their combo (sometimes) but not teching is generally the safer option if you're not sure.
In the j.B land j.BC dj.BC combo, you're not actually jump cancelling. You're just jumping. Same thing for when you do a 5BB 22C air combo. You're not jump cancelling 22C, so you can do a jump cancel before doing it if you wanted to.
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Practicing meterless corner BnB 4C>214B>j.22>214B>2c>214A against VSion. Why does my second 214B wallbound instead of launch like it's supposed to?
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Okay, I got it down consistently after a bit of practice. I'm waiting until they fall right next to Nanaya. So basically, delaaaaay. It's not really a hard timing, but too fast it'll do the wallslam instead of the launcher and too slow they'll tech out. It looks like you have to change up the timing depending on the hitbox of the character you're hitting.
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Thanks guys, I can't believe a 5 hit combo would require this much effort.
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Umm, guys? I'm encountering a semi-rare, but tad annoying problem with 2B>5C>2C>22C>5BB>j.BCA>sdj.BC>AT again. It happens most often with Kouma, and involves my first j.B only hitting once? Am I attacking too early? Jumping too late? What's the issue here? It's throwing off my timing pretty badly.
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If you mean 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C, it's probably that you're doing 5BB too fast. Delay it and it'll work more consistently. You want to hit them as they're about to hit the floor. Also, Kouma has a dumb air hitbox that ruins combos a lot. Works fine if you delay 5BB enough, though.
EDIT: By the way, this is where the stable air combo comes in handy. Also, don't need to let j.B hit twice. It adds minimal damage and meter.
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If you mean 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C, it's probably that you're doing 5BB too fast. Delay it and it'll work more consistently.
You may also try to partial charge the 5BB (ie. 5B{B}) instead of 5B (delay) B if that is easier to time. Also, 2C delay 5B will help.
-TexasTim-
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If you mean 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C, it's probably that you're doing 5BB too fast. Delay it and it'll work more consistently.
You may also try to partial charge the 5BB (ie. 5B{B}) instead of 5B (delay) B if that is easier to time. Also, 2C delay 5B will help.
-TexasTim-
Wait, there's a partial charge? :emo: *facepalm
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Hey guys, speaking of which, how are our relative matchups with rest of the cast? Any significantly bad ones I should know about? Discuss.
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So, whaddoido against Ciel? I'm not new to fighting games, so I can deal with projectiles easily most of the time, but for some reason, it feels like all of her moves out-prioritize me. Badly. I'm playing someone occasionally mashes 2CC, only to have:
<1> Me get anti-aired by the second part
<2> Him cancel it into a backdash, rendering it unpunishable.
Also, I sometimes get called out during projectile strings when I try to jump out, get hit by a delayed flame sword, and netting me a clean boom>Hiero.
2A mash oki and grabs for the win.
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lol, that takes me back to Cadenza days... oh Ciel, how I hated you back then.
Well, you mentioned hiero so I'm assuming C. The thing to note is, there is a rock-paper-scissors to every fighting game, and you will need to take risks against players who gamble like that. Just remember to think about risk/reward and the right counter to the move he's using.
I don't see Ciels nowadays but I don't think 2C is a good move to mash, good pressure is the key here. Stagger, reverse beat and IAD. If I'm not mistaken 2CC isn't cancelable on whiff, right? Shouldnt be hard to let him hang himself on neutral. You have charged teleport to punish his projectiles if he abuses it.
Mashing loses to meaty, but if he is mashing on wakeup and you're letting him, I'll assume you're afraid of reversals. There are ways to beat reversals, one is reversing controls (which nanaya can do easily, but in her case it's worthless - 236C <> 214C, 22C) one is option select (won't work on EXs), which leaves you only with baiting.
22C and 236C lose to block, 214C loses to jump behind or shield->jump get air hit (recover towards her and then punish). You'll notice that all of those are meter dependant, so do what you can to deny her meter and if she is out of it go for oki without fear. The thing is, you can't do meaty and block at the same time, so you'll have to make sure that when he guesses wrong you're gonna hit him harder than he will you when he guesses right, which is not hard.
Then if he starts gambling shield or backdash on wakeup, you're gonna have to outsmart him with high/low oki or bait and OS's.
tl;dr practice pressure to objectively beat 2CC mashing, bait neutral 2CC, practice punish combos for blocked reversals and make sure your yomi is on point. Also, if he is predictable whith 2CC, shield/DP can help you too.
PS: you can low profile 22B with 2A/B/C oki if I'm not mistaken, so I didn't even acknowledge that as a reversal.
Maybe someone else (butterfree?) can provide better insights since it's been a while since I played C-7ya or that matchup, lol
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Can't be helped. CNana is terrible in neutral. As for Ciel's 2CC, you should have more than enough time to punish it. Its recovery is garbage and it's not cancelable on block. Just make sure you don't do it too early. Even if you don't react in time and she backdashes, you can catch her with 2C or 214B. You can just do a 5B in her face when she's falling from 2CC, though, and get an easy combo. I don't know why you always in a situation where you're getting anti aired by it, though.
EDIT: Can't reverse beat 2CC anymore 'cause she goes airborne before it hits. :v
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Trust me, I'm not afraid of DP-ing her, it's just that I simply can't. My pad can't read DP motions all too well, due to a design flaw. Maybe it's just bad lag (using Hamachi), but whenever I dash 5B or even 214B if I'm desperate after a 2CC on her end, I somehow always fly into her backdash invul, netting her a free whiff punish. Also, most of the time I get 2CC'd, is when I'm falling after BE22B, it somehow beat's out my falling j.C. I'll upload a replay some other time if I get the chance.
I know I should have an easier time than I am right now, but especially when it come down to lag, me not being able to followup after 214B while her combos are still fine and dandy do screw me over in the end. I mean, I can hardly perform the 623C corner BnB online, despite being able to do it blindfolded offline.
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Well, the problem is her doing a dp when you're performing oki. 22C ignores your side switching, so she can dp when other characters have a hard time doing it.
You can do a 5B without dashing if you block 2CC. It has like 40f of recovery. If it whiffs, you can dash 2C and catch it really easily if you wait for her to do the flip in her backdash before doing 2C. So dash and block and then 2C when he backdashes.
As for 22[B], you can just do a jump/airdash/iad to bait her 2CC and then fast fall and hit her in the face. It's near impossible to beat 2CC from straight up, but j.C can beat it if you're a bit farther from her horizontally. It's probably a bad idea in general to challenge it from the air 'cause it's active forever, though. Plus, if you trade, it's heavily in her favor and she gets a 4k combo.
The main problem is probably that you're too obvious with 22[B]. See if you can bait out a 2CC by doing a 22C. Or just use it very sparingly. 22[B] is a good move, but if you use it predictably, you can even just get j.A'd as you come out of it.
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I'll try putting this to good use next time I vs the guy. BTW, what's the optimal way to combo into Nanaya's AD? Also, I hear that you can even combo after it in the corner. Other than miraculously hitting a person who's attempting to jump out, I've yet to get this to work.
EDIT: Never mind. I played around a bit in training mode and found the answer. Looks like the combo thread is getting another update.
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I like seeing the boards active, so I'm gonna throw 2 things out here:
<1> The "Nanaya-style anti-air." What is it, and what makes it famous?
<2> How does his 623B compare with Inferno Divider? I know this may seem off-topic, but I have often been mashing 623B in situations where ID would work, but to no avail. Aren't they both invul from startup?
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5AAAAAA
Also:
j.AAAAAA
You can 623B through a lot, but multi hit moves (Nero 5[C] for example) beat it up if they're spaced properly. What's happening when you're doing it? Are people beating you out after it comes out?
EDIT: It's not the multihit, but that the move has active frames last until the invuln on your 623B run out. So if your 623B's active frames are clashed or whiffed, you get beat up by the rest of the active frames of their attack.
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5AAAAAA
Also:
j.AAAAAA
Deja Vu.
You can 623B through a lot, but multi hit moves (Nero 5[C] for example) beat it up if they're spaced properly. What's happening when you're doing it? Are people beating you out after it comes out?
I'm pretty sure it's on my end, since I often end up with 236C on wakeup. I can't tell though, because I don't see anything comeout, other than the "Counterhit" notification. If it's anything like ID though, it shouldn't give a damn about meaties. I usually get called out with 623B on wakeup after a Ciel air-throws me at the end of a combo, and attempts to dive. Sometimes I can beat them out, sometimes I can't.
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That's probably an execution error. Your 623B has 15 invuln frames (6 are active) before you have any green box. The way the buffer works, you can do 623 ahead of time, then time B 4f or less before you wake up.
EDIT: Try practising with this (http://www.mediafire.com/?t0kpytaeif9rs9p). Just put it in your DummyRep folder. Go into Training with FRyougi as the opponent, position yourself so that you're in the corner, and set it to Dummy with Slot 10. She'll come at you and knock you down. If your wake up 623B was on time, you fly right pass her. If it's not, you get hit.
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Yeah, I thought so. This stupid pad I'm using can't read 2 inputs, only 1 and 3, so a I'm having a weird time with DPs, hence the 236C on wakeup. Thanks for the info about the 4 frame buffer though.
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Man, you should get a new pad already. x_x
I think you can find some cheap ones for as much as $5 on amazon or something.
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$5 on amazon or something.
Guess where I got my pad from. :-\
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After having a slice of the good life (also known as C-Sei), I've noticed my Nanaya neutral is severely lacking, especially when it comes to spacing. I've decided to pick a random vid I found on Youtube to analyze and critique on, as I find my own situation rather similar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilwC3sdmutI
Can anybody point out what the Nanaya here should've done instead? In terms of neutral of course, not yomi.
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Yeah, that video is less bad neutral and more the Nanaya player probably being just inexperienced. Looked like he just did high commitment stuff randomly hoping to get a hit.
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Wait guys, if C-Nanaya oki is that miserable, why ever 2C>214A midscreen? If the chances of a reset are hardly better than an airthrow, might as well go for damage.
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You can still do super jump fast fall mixups. Or just do a meaty backdash OS and keep the pressure on. Not going for oki means you have to go back to neutral, and Nanaya never wants to go back to neutral.
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Doesn't jumping pretty much kill Nanaya oki though anyways?
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A real meaty should beat out jump outs.
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You gotta know which mixups allow you to hit meaty and which dont. On that note, ppl should go for 2B when trying for same side low but 2A when going for crossup, because it is faster.
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You also need to learn your stagger timing so that you can beat people holding up-back in the middle of your blockstrings. This can be troublesome as the timing changes depending on the move you're coming out of, the move you're going into, and the spacing. Ffor example, far (but not max) range 2B to 2C has to be done instantly, whereas close 5B to 2A can work as a string reset if your timing is perfect.