Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Current Code => Shiki Nanaya => : fiendmaw November 28, 2011, 12:02:48 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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To start it off I have a question for fellow Nanaya players.
Do you use,and if you do when/how would you use,j.B in air to air situations,I still cant find a clear situation where I would use it.
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It's technically the best when you're at the same height as your opponent in the air but you can just mindlessly jA/jC 99% of the time and be ok.
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It's technically the best when you're at the same height as your opponent in the air but you can just mindlessly jA/jC 99% of the time and be ok.
Thats the thing,it doesnt cover any angle j.a/j.c cant cover,and it has really poor active frames for a 2-hit attack to do anything with it...
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H and F's are one hit :V
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In 1.07 just use JA everytime
Only reason i'd ever use jb was because of armor bodying everything but now you don't have to fear with ja as much
JB still has uses but they're pretty situational and it's 2 hit so it's annoying. With H jb placement is way better but with F you shouldn't really be at level with your opponent in the air since you always want to be above them.
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I personally use it when I smell a jump-in while I'm in the air, and the angle and speed of that jump-in isnt something j.A durability and j.C startup can handle. But it's very situational and if you've placed yourself in that spot, you probably did something wrong. Not to mention j.B is easily whiffed, so... blocking > defensive j.B?
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It's really just a combo filler move, j.A and j.C fill the roles it could fill both better. Can be useful in fuzzy guards, though. That's about it, other than combos.
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That may be true for C-Nanaya's j.B, but I feel H/F j.B is actually a decent enough move in air-air situations because of the single-hit. Roughly same coverage as j.C, but the hitbox is active two frames earlier, so it's good for situations where there isn't enough vertical difference between you and the foe to j.A(x) -> j.C safely. So instead you do the whole ABC airchain like it's actually effective. :V
That's theoryfighter.
Seems to me people throw it out when they think opponents do not respect them and will try to eat their first jump up by jumping at them. Then you land on the ground and do a fairly ghetto air CH confirm combo.
Although in such cases it seems to be better on average to just preemptively block, or try to fish for a gold airthrow (this will probably be deemed the better option as time goes on).
The problem with H and F j.B is that while it does have a fairly decent air-to-air hitbox,it's only active for 2 frames,which is quite bad by melty standards...
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For Crescent, after using 214C, there is a small time after Nanaya's throw, where he is considered airborne, and this can be cancelled into double jumps or what not, but you cannot fast fall cancel this :-[. Possible 4 way if you back dash cancel after the second jump.
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Guys expect a indepth article or guide of 1.07 Nanaya.
I'm really liking him so far.
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Ok,I'm gonna put up a challenge,after 214c theres is a range where its possible to otg j.B.The challenge is to see if you can then land and otg 623c.
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@ VietGeek
How did you get it to work? I can get the 623C to chain, but on Kouma and Reis is it just me or can you only get the first part of the kick to hit, so you can't DP command throw every char. Found it ironic since these are the chars with the small frame window which you can OTG after a regular throw...
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Actually,on the characters listed,I believe you can omit the otg j.B and just whiff an air normal into 623C.At first I thought they would rise to fast to combo them without otg j.B but that is not the case for the characters listed.
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I don't know who added to the PS2 C-Nanaya wiki after me,but I'm pretty sure his 2B is not the Hand of God.
Try to keep the information in the wiki as objective as possible.Also it would help if you keep comparisons to previous games to a minimum.
Anyway here's the revised and updated C-Nanaya wiki.
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Melty_Blood/Shiki_Nanaya/Crescent_Moon
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i was just skimming through the c-nana wiki and happened to notice that it said 5B is +1 on block. i don't remember seeing this on any changelists and it was definitely +/- 0 before.
is this actually one of the changes or was this a fuck up with H and F moon's 5B being +1?
if its the former... fapface
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Yes,it is +1.In the MBAA ver.A mook it had a total of 23 frames of startup+recovery and it was even on block.
In PS2/CC the recovery was shortened by one frame.
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Uhhh as 623C can be used a relauncher.... you can 2A5C 623C to other corner and then get a 2AB jbc jbc air throw off a ground grab on Kouma/Reis. Pretty sure you guys already knew this though :V
Edit: Also ground throw into 623B/C works on Kouma/Reis but I can't get 623A to work...? Does A have longer startup frames or something?
More Edits: On the wiki
214C
(EX version: Hitokaze) - After a fairly long start-up, Nanaya teleports near the opponent and throws them. This is a command grab.You are now in an air state right after it,so you can get an easy fastfall which-way.
Shouldn't that be changed to C version, and as I stated previously, you can't fast fall it unless you jump cancel first... which is what I assume the author meant.
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This is probably common knowledge but it's sort of useful - similar to his MBAC Slashy combo, Nanaya can link 2A after dash 5B 5C 236 A (2955 dmg) sliding forward, though its pretty situational and has strict timing / spacing. But if you can get the 2A off you can continue into a standard BnB.
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If what you say is correct, that is, its just like in MBAC, that link is a 1 frame link. Highly impractical.
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Just curious, the most damage I can get out of F-Nanaya raw AT is using
5[c] 2c 623bb d.j j.b j.c AT
Are the other ways of dealing more damage?
Aside from double 623b combo, I can't execute that yet.
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You could do stuff like raw AT 5[c] arcdrive 2c etc. if you have meter.or 5[c] dash 2c 214b 2c etc. depending on corner spacing.
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The IAD solution sounded cool,
Until I tried it. Its really hard (haven't landed it yet) to execute because I feel like the window's too small, that and I can't imput 8 66 super fast to get an IAD... I used to use like A+B or something for a dash button back in ps2 but now i'm working without one.
And the arcdrive one is pretty neat, after arcdrive(holding 2) 2c (in corner) it forces me in corner but i have knockdown so i think i can do a sort of which way with a warui ne. But i can't 623bb after it because my character is facing the wrong way after 2c.
But for the 214b combo, I'm not sure about this one... its hard
But yeah thanks for the suggestions guys
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F Nan - So im wondering whether if I'm doing the heat cancel off of the 623 launcher to connect the arc drive for the warui ne OTG combo whether you use 623B or 623A.
Also,
2C --> 214 B --> dash 2C --> 214 B is there any follow up to this? and under what situations can I follow up wall slam 214 B with F-Nan
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oh wow C-5b actually is +f!? goodshit
however that brings up another point regarding 1.07 crescent.
like for instance, if, as the changelist thread says, crescent moon's 2a recovery has been increased and has not been noted to have been changed back, wouldn't that mean that the 2a is now minus on block? that might be important to note on the wiki by whoever is a wiki editor, as if this is true it should be very important to be aware of when attempting to reset strings on block.
also regarding the wiki, looking at it now, its pretty bare bones and i think it might benefit from some well written general-gameplan-in-neutral/on-offense/etc. sections. maybe someone like roku could do a write up on something like basic C-nana string theory if they aren't busy. it would be nice if someone who was trying to get into the game could look at the wiki and see something a little more substantial and well representative of the game because as it stands it ain't too enticing as a source of actual information. what if a person whose interest has been somewhat peaked wanted to know why or how something was happening in a match video beyond the most obvious shit? although to be honest the wiki for mbcc as a whole would need to change because right now its about on the same level as the old srk tenka wiki.
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oh wow C-5b actually is +f!? goodshit
however that brings up another point regarding 1.07 crescent.
like for instance, if, as the changelist thread says, crescent moon's 2a recovery has been increased and has not been noted to have been changed back, wouldn't that mean that the 2a is now minus on block? that might be important to note on the wiki by whoever is a wiki editor, as if this is true it should be very important to be aware of when attempting to reset strings on block.
also regarding the wiki, looking at it now, its pretty bare bones and i think it might benefit from some well written general-gameplan-in-neutral/on-offense/etc. sections. maybe someone like roku could do a write up on something like basic C-nana string theory if they aren't busy. it would be nice if someone who was trying to get into the game could look at the wiki and see something a little more substantial and well representative of the game because as it stands it ain't too enticing as a source of actual information. what if a person whose interest has been somewhat peaked wanted to know why or how something was happening in a match video beyond the most obvious shit? although to be honest the wiki for mbcc as a whole would need to change because right now its about on the same level as the old srk tenka wiki.
I'll get to it when I stop being a lazy motherfucker
[In other words it'll never get done]
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<eirei> calm down guys, nanaya matchups are...
<eirei> ...nanaya business
:slowpoke:
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<eirei> calm down guys, nanaya matchups are...
<eirei> ...nanaya business
:slowpoke:
zzzzz, you guys actually believe I think Nanaya mirrors are 6-4
:laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo:
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Comboooos, since I'm having trouble finding any. Let me know if anything is wrong here.
C-Nanaya
2A 5C 2C 2B 5B j.BC ad.A dj.BC AT
2A 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C 236C 2C 214A (oki with meter)
Gold AT 2C 214B dash 2B 5C 623BB
H-Nanaya
2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 214A 5AC j.BC dj.BC AT
2A 5B 2B 5C 2A 236A 5AC j.C dj.BC AT
Gold AT 2C 5C j.BC dj.BC AT
F-Nanaya
2A 5B 2B 2C 623BB dj.22 623BB sdj.BC AT
2A 5B 2B 2C 623BB j.BC AT
2A 5B 2B 5C 236Bx3
Gold AT dash 2C 214B dash 2C 214A
Note for Gold AT I typically do oki as opposed to damage, I feel it's the better choice. F-Nanaya has more combos that I don't know, and I don't know more of H-Nanaya's stuff.
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Comboooos, since I'm having trouble finding any. Let me know if anything is wrong here.
C-Nanaya
2A 5C 2C 2B 5B j.BC ad.A dj.BC AT
2A 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C 236C 2C 214A (oki with meter)
Gold AT 2C 214B dash 2B 5C 623BB
you're missing some important ones. jump cancellable 214b is kinda important.
C Nana in the corner gets things like
2a 2b 5c 214b j.22 2c 2b 5b 236c 2c 214a for okizeme using meter
2a 2b 5c 214b j.22 214b(close version) 2c 214a for the same without using meterbut getting less damage.
those are just examples though. nanaya combos get pretty free form. you can link 2a 5b 236c or 2a 236a>236c after 623c in the corner and midscreen. the 214b (close) into the dash 2a link combo is pretty free and is still cool as shit. there's also a lot of really cool character specific stuff you can do. combos are pretty fun with the character. you can just piece them together by taking parts of basic bnbs and extending a combo with that based on positioning on the screen and the amount of resources you have /are willing to burn.
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Can someone hook me up with a 623C loop combo?
And any tips on the 2A after the 623C?
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I think it's something like 623C 2A5BB22C air combo or 623C 2A214B 2A5BB22C air combo depending on who you're hitting. I'm pretty sure the second one doesn't work on Ryougi and a few others, 'cause Ryougi is a scumbag.
EDIT: Might be wrong 'cause I don't play Nanaya, but it's what I see people do.
EDIT: It's in the old PS2 wiki (http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Melty_Blood/Shiki_Nanaya/PS2#Combos_and_Strategies).
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I still find it confusing that the Reverse Beat timing of H-Nanaya's 5C into 6AAA influences the damage output.
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What do you guys do post hard knockdown with 214A?
I personally usually just either:
sj fastfall
sj backdash fastfall
or sj j jc
is there anything important im missing?
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Neco-Arc 1.400 0.678 1.031 0.815 12500
Nanaya 1.000 0.968 0.890 0.815 12493
Discuss.
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Get buffed in 1.07. Complain anyways.
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What are the optimal/good BnBs for C Nanaya?
After like 30 mins in training mode i have...
Damage done on V-Sion
BnB: 2B 2C 5C jBC jBC AT = 3723
BnB 2: 2B 5C 2C 214B (close) dash 2A 5C jBC jBC AT = 4569
- Easier near corners, but not in corner.
BnB 2 Variant: 2B 5C 2C 214B (close) dash 2A 5BB 22C jBC jBC AT = 4732
- Easier near corners, but not in corner.
BnB 3: 2B 5C 2C 5BB 22C jBC jBC AT = 4554
I feel that the 2nd one is starting to get on the right track. And i dislike 22C resets so...
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I use the 2B5C2C214B2A5Cj.BCj.BC AT as a punish combo. Most of the time, though, they're too far that 2C would whiff or be too slow, so I just do 2B5C214B, then adding stuff depending on how we're positioned. But then, I'm a terrible Cana.
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Technically the most "optimal" in damage (without meter) is
5b5c2c2b jbc jbc AT 4962 Damage, but you need to be so extremely close to enemies to do that.
If you like Nanaya's cross up/mix up games you will want to incorporate hard knock downs (2c and 214a) into your combos. This can be done through combos like
2b5c2c 214a 2590 Damage
2b5c 214b jump cancel j22 2c 214a 2731 Damage (near corner but not close enough to enemy for 214b to knock enemy up).
Also maybe I'm just a noob but why 22c if you get the superjump timing after 5bb, and learn to combo off that? Maybe I'm just to used to it so I don't do 22c and I should.
(All values are on V. Sion) Your values seem a bit lower than they should be when I tested them myself.
Also adding meter to your combos like 623c in corner can net some extra damage for 100 meter. Not always useful but if it was the difference between a killing blow, then it might be worth the investment.
And just putting this out there (corner) Blood Heat 5b5c2c2b 41236c = 6945 Damage :teach:
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22C makes it easier to connect the rest of the combo and makes them lower so you land faster and get better oki. At least, I'm assuming that's why.
EDIT: In corners, you can just j.22 214B 2C 214A after whatever into 214B for actual oki and more than a sliver of damage.
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Most damaging 'practical' punisher:
5B 5C [delay, close as possible] 214B run through, combo after. If near corner, 5B 5C pickup.
That requires absolutely no hitconfirm and requires point blank. So the most practical variant is:
5B 5C 2B 2C 214B run through, combo after
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22C makes it so your air combo after pretty much always hits, if you just sj your 2nd jC tends to miss.. It also let's 236C combos do more damage I think.
Roku, is it practical to start with 5B? I feel like the only thing I would hit with that is a ciel who missed ex hiero...
Also any tips for executing the wall slam combo?
2B 5C 214b 9 22 2C 5BB 22C jBC jBC AT
This is the one I tried to no avail. Any easier variants without making the combo no longer worthwhile? The only thing I could think of is adding 214A after the fastfall 2C.
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Roku, is it practical to start with 5B? I feel like the only thing I would hit with that is a ciel who missed ex hiero...
I confirm this off blockstrings sometimes, all you need to do is drop 2A confirms in favor of confirming with 5B 5C
Also any tips for executing the wall slam combo?
2B 5C 214b 9 22 2C 5BB 22C jBC jBC AT
This is the one I tried to no avail. Any easier variants without making the combo no longer worthwhile? The only thing I could think of is adding 214A after the fastfall 2C.
Use 292 to fastfall, ot just 92222222 it's okay to mash it, I know for sure I do. As soon as I land I just hold down and mash 2C sometimes too. All that matters if that you're getting it reliably
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Hey guys I know I've said this multiple times already but I'm legit starting a Nanaya guide right at this moment, can really use some good video editing software and advice of that sort. Currently trying to make this guide without getting too complicated over small details
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Is 5B fast enough? and will it hit crouchers?
Also, if you have a mac, Final Cut is really easy to use.
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Some combos people are using for midscreen:
Oki (100%)
2A 5B 2B 5C 2C *delay* 214B *changes sides* dash 2A 5BB 236C 2C 214A
+- 4700 on v.sion
Damage (0%)
2A 5B 2B 5C 2C *delay* 214B *changes sides* dash 2A 5BB 22C j. aircombo
+- 5000 on v.sion
If you cut the 2A damage goes up around 300
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Is 5B fast enough? and will it hit crouchers?
Also, if you have a mac, Final Cut is really easy to use.
It'll hit crouchers, don't know what you mean by fast enough though
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Hey guys I know I've said this multiple times already but I'm legit starting a Nanaya guide right at this moment, can really use some good video editing software and advice of that sort. Currently trying to make this guide without getting too complicated over small details
I don't have time to right now, but later today I can tell you what I use to make my videos.
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Oh sorry I miss read that. Yeah I guess I'll just change my muscle memory, I've been confirming 2A anyway.
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I don't have time to right now, but later today I can tell you what I use to make my videos.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
Oh sorry I miss read that. Yeah I guess I'll just change my muscle memory, I've been confirming 2A anyway.
You need to mix in 2B/5B starters to stop people from mashing shield on you anyway, and both give more damage.
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I don't have time to right now, but later today I can tell you what I use to make my videos.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
I was just about to post it in here, But I figured I'd move it over to my recordings thread here:
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/kohaku%27s-video-room/texastim%27s-mbaa-recordings/ (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/kohaku%27s-video-room/texastim%27s-mbaa-recordings/)
So I don't clutter up this thread with it.
-TexasTim-
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZU6AeYkRM
FNanaya In Depth Tutorial
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Dropping C, switching to F.
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Scumbag Moon. But F is the only Nanaya I play too.
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I ain't good using Nanaya in that style, I suck, the best combo that I can do for the moment is 2A 2B 2C 623BB j5A J5B J5C AT, and I have seen many videos where Nanaya fastfalls after the circular kick, but I dunno how to do that.
I'm a noob.
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You have to jump cancel the 623BB like you would in a regular 623BB combo, but then fast fall and do it again. The timing is actually pretty lax once you practice it a few times. So you'd do something like 2A5B2B2C623BB822623Bj.BC Airthrow
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Shit, I'm a dumbass. Thanks for the reply, man!
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You can also do the DPFC (Dragon Punch Fastfall cancel) as 228 if you time it right.
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Hi there, I got a doubt, somebody here knows a combo with C-Nanaya that may inflict about 5000 damage or more?
Just that.
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Most damaging 'practical' punisher:
5B 5C [delay, close as possible] 214B run through, combo after. If near corner, 5B 5C pickup.
That requires absolutely no hitconfirm and requires point blank. So the most practical variant is:
5B 5C 2B 2C 214B run through, combo after
^ (Top one does like 6k w/o counter hit, bottom one does about 5.4k all values tested on V.Sion)
Of course adding meter makes for a lot of other options, but I don't think you're looking for that.
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You can do 5B 2B 5C 2C (wait until you're right next to them) 214B (dash back in) 2A 5BB 22C j.BC j.BC Airthrow. Does 5k on characters with low defenses. Or troll with 623C loops.
EDIT: Don't do what I said, 'cause what Roku said does more. Either way, it's pretty impractical.
EDIT: And be in Blood Heat as well for more damage.
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Oh, thank you, guys, gotta try that then.
Or troll with 623C loops.
LOL.
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For H-Moon:
I'm wondering if this combo is char specific, or rather, if anyone can get it to work on Miyako, V-Akiha, and Ryougi.
Combo: 2A 5B 2B 5C 5A6AA 2C 214A 5A (5A5A) 5C j.BC dj.BC AT
Also wondering if the string ... 2C 214A 5A 214A 5A ... is able to be comboed. I think it works, but I have yet to land it once.
If anyone is able to combo these, or has seen it in a video, I'd also like to see.
Thanks.
-TexasTim-
This guy is prolly going to be next on my list of chars to make vids for.
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Yeah that combo seems to be character specific. Out of curiosity though, any reason you're running that particular combo? Figured only reason people would use the 6AA's nowadays in a full-blown combo and not a random confirm is for meter gain due to the nerfed proration rates.
EDIT: For a combo off 2A starter it seems to do the most damage at anywhere on-screen, but the potential to mess the combo up due to whacky cross-ups or whatever during 6AA -> 2C is a huge turn-off for me, IMO.
Yeah 5A6AA still does more damage on any combo they are included in. A lot of damage... As far as cross-ups go, if you are in range for 5C 5A6AA to land all the hits, then the 5A6AA 2C behaves the same every time (I think, still testing this guy...)
Now that I think about it, I might wana test these midscreen on everyone... Might change who it works on.
I found that for 214A, you wana hit 2C earlier to keep them higher so they fall into the later frames of 214A and make the 5A link easier. For 236A, you wana hit 2C later to keep them lower and make the 5A j.B link easier.
Thanks.
-TexasTim-