Nanaya MBAA Thread (C/H/F Moon)

[fiendmaw]

Fastfall penalty removal is in the official changelists,so its there.Also AAD seems to be way faster.
In this vid: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14784791 ,the C-Nanaya did 2C5CAAD and it comboed rather easily,and it did a hefty 4.8k from a 2C starter.

[fiendmaw]

Alright,since my old speculation post is outdated,I'm gonna make a new one listing the Nanaya 1.05 changes.

General changes(across all moons):

• Arcdrive recovery shortened(can combo after it).
• AAD seems to 'lock' people in the air(no visual confirmation on this yet,but its listed).
• AAD startup time dramatically increased(read post above).
• Removed the rebeat penalty from his fastfall.
• His raw(gold) airthrow automatically performs a fastfall if it connects.

Crescent  Moon:

• 236C is now air untechable,follow-ups are possible from certain heights.
• 214A(overhead teleport),623B and 623C now otg relaunch.
• 214A is now a hard knockdown
• You can now hold directions after you perform BE22B(charged 22B) for different effects:5 is the old position,8 for higher up,2 for lower,4 in front,6 farther back.

Half Moon:

• Mostly unchanged,except 214C(I think) otg relaunches.
  

Full Moon:

• Warui Ne(divekicks),623B and 623C otg relaunch.
• 5[C] now groundbounces the opponent on air hit.

Thats all the known changes so far.We'll see how they change him again when 1.06 hits.

[yui]

wow thats amazing! this is the kind of information ive been looking for. +HEAT

ive been wondering about the different BE22B heights for a while, but i had no idea they gave him directional influence over it.
now if you go for [4] or [6] when teleporting, do you automatically come out at the height for [5]? you can't use diagonals? am i hoping for too much?

i'm really feelin the new changes. maybe with 623c otg relaunch, (sorta) big damage comboable arc drives, and untechable downs from otg 2c>623b>236c>2c>214a into a possible fastfall sideswap with no rebeat penalty people might actually have some incentive to try and tech when given the option (corner 214b, 623c)

edit: have to actually type BE22B instead of 22 or else this happens. fucking bold...

[fiendmaw]

All the changes in 1.05 seem to be directed towards (mostly Crescent)Nanaya's mixup game.

Nanaya always had a decent mixup game,but from my point of view,what hurt him the most was the lack of good non-risky setups to actually make good use of it.

Before 1.05 he could setup mixups(which consisted almost entirely of fastfall which way's) from either a ground throw,214C(teleport grab),corner 623BB,corner 214b(which is not guaranteed since the opponent can tech).As you can probably tell,the damage was subpar for all these options(even the non-guaranteed ones),and if your opponent read some of them,you were looking at 50% of your life gone from a punish combo.

Now with 236C being comboable after,it presents Nanaya with alot more opportunities,not only does he get decent damage combos into a hard knockdown,but he can also make anti-air 236A really dangerous.BE22B can also be used for mixups,the new change making it quite hard to block if setup correctly.The removal of the rebeat penalty from fastfall was just the icing on the cake.

I think they noticed Nanaya was lagging behind.From MBAC to MBAA PS2 he was pretty much the easiest character to learn,but the hardest to win with at any competent level.

[Rokunaya]

Very informative post Fiendmaw, I agree with almost all of your points but I have to tack on his lack of damage and virtual lack of meaty in console hurts him even more. With all these new addtions, he's looking far more practical, especially with the overall damage nerfs in the game. When the newer versions of the game come out I'll look forward to playing him again, but for now I'll explore other characters.

[Tonberry]

From MBAC to MBAA PS2 he was pretty much the easiest character to learn,but the hardest to win with at any competent level.

There are much worse characters who have a harder time winning than C-Nanaya in MBAA. 

[fiendmaw]

From MBAC to MBAA PS2 he was pretty much the easiest character to learn,but the hardest to win with at any competent level.

There are much worse characters who have a harder time winning than C-Nanaya in MBAA. 

Yes,ofcourse,but I was emphasizing that Nanaya is an easy char to learn,but is very limited once you get past that.
Hmm,I think I worded it poorly,I did not meant to say 'the hardest' but 'one of the harder'.

[Dullyanna]

Only crescent got the 22B change?

 

[fiendmaw]

Only crescent got the 22B change?

 

Only Crescent has the charged 22B,so yes.

[fiendmaw]

It's not really that complicated really.It means the things you do afterwards(which 90% of the time are mixups)do more damage.I guess you could also look at it from the rebeat stacking point of view.Rebeat penalty doesnt go away instantly,but instead fades over time,so if you did something like a fastfall mixup but you did a reverse beat recently(a good example is the 2C5A throw setup)the previous penalty(albeit lower since it should have already started 'fading')gets added to the actual fastfall rebeat,so you would get even less damage than just a regular reverse beat penalty,not to mention the rebeats you would do in the combo immediately after the fastfall.
It can also be used as a movement tool now,since it comes free of charge,but I don't know how strong that would be.
And I don't really remember the Ranpo example,if you have a vid available do link.

[fiendmaw]

If youre going for airthrow ender,throwing them closer to the ground means you get better oki.
However if theyre not in the corner,the best oki option is doing a string into 2C 214B 2C2B5B623BB,it does comparable damage to aerial combo and the oki is far superior.
Airdashing before airthrow is an MBAC tactic,and as far as I know,it doesnt help anymore(I had reports of it putting you FARTHER away than if you would airthrow without airdash).Ofcourse it helps for getting an airthrow in some situations since you may be too far,but as far as oki is concerned,its null.

[s4itox]

If youre going for airthrow ender,throwing them closer to the ground means you get better oki.
However if theyre not in the corner,the best oki option is doing a string into 2C 214B 2C2B5B623BB,it does comparable damage to aerial combo and the oki is far superior.
Airdashing before airthrow is an MBAC tactic,and as far as I know,it doesnt help anymore(I had reports of it putting you FARTHER away than if you would airthrow without airdash).Ofcourse it helps for getting an airthrow in some situations since you may be too far,but as far as oki is concerned,its null.

From memory, airthrowing before the airdash is only counterproductive in corner. It still provides (slightly) better oki elsewhere.
I heard that like a year ago, though, so take statement with a grain of salt.

[BurstOfAnger]

I've tested before on MBAA PS2. Airdash airthrow in the corner will put you further from the opponent. In MBAC, the forward momentum used to put you closer, but now it seems that the slight altitude you get from the airdash in MBAA PS2 will put you further. Anywhere else midscreen, however, gives you forward momentum and carries you and your opponent closer to the corner, potentially giving better oki later on.

Of course, now that 1.05 is out...

[fiendmaw]

I dont know about you,but I had an easy time learning the double dp combo,I dont think it took me more than 30 minutes sessions for 2 days to get it down on both sides(however I'm a keyboard player so it might be easier on kb than stick?).One thing I can help you with is that you have to start buffering dp right after the tk j.22 so something like j22(3)623 then pressing B as soon as you land should do the trick.

As far as IH combos go,do ground string into 2x 236b IH dash up do it again(or even do a better one depending on spacing).

22B warui ne is Current Code specific,its not possible in console.

[fiendmaw]

I thought I should make a visual guide to help newcomers with the 1.05 changes.

PS2/CC Nanaya


CC 1.05 Nanaya

[BurstOfAnger]

Immediate +HEAT

[Rokunaya]

lmfao... even though I think the direction 1.05 Nanaya has gone in is really dumb, I'll definitely admit he's way better now haha~

[Rokunaya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qQzl-vO5c#t=6m14s

Lol this fucking game

[fiendmaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qQzl-vO5c#t=6m14s

Lol this fucking game

I dont know why he didnt do arcdrive there,would have been a kill for sure.

[yui]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qQzl-vO5c#t=6m14s

Lol this fucking game

I dont know why he didnt do arcdrive there,would have been a kill for sure.

hahaha that was ridiculous. maybe he couldve added a fastfall>2nd dp >blahblah to that and actually broken 4k.

as for the arc drive thing, im pretty sure you cant EX cancel past the first hit of the dp anyway so it wouldnt have mattered. unless your talking about arc driving at hit 7 instead of IH-ing which wouldnt have killed either but since you can combo off arc drives now maybe he couldve done some cool shit and ended it there.

[fiendmaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qQzl-vO5c#t=6m14s

Lol this fucking game

I dont know why he didnt do arcdrive there,would have been a kill for sure.

hahaha that was ridiculous. maybe he couldve added a fastfall>2nd dp >blahblah to that and actually broken 4k.

as for the arc drive thing, im pretty sure you cant EX cancel past the first hit of the dp anyway so it wouldnt have mattered. unless your talking about arc driving at hit 7 instead of IH-ing which wouldnt have killed either but since you can combo off arc drives now maybe he couldve done some cool shit and ended it there.

Im talking about doing arcdrive after the charged 5C then doing follow-up.

[fiendmaw]

Doesn't arc drive prorate a lot though? I think in about every F-Nanaya video where the player IH cancels 623B into BE5C into arc drive into follow-ups, damage rarely breaks 3k from a ground starter. The only plus is you can start regaining meter again quickly (but that's obvious).

Of course Keso could just be showboating. I mean if he didn't we wouldn't even be talking about this.

You can combo off all of the Nanaya ADs (but not AADs) right? How come I never see H-Nanaya players winning use it?

H-Nanaya's arc drive is actually the AAD version (unblockable and slow).Also 1.05 is the first time where you can combo after AD so I have no idea how the proration is,but the raw damage it does should still add damage to the combo,not to mention you get to do a dash 2C into double dp afterwards which is certainly better than IAD j.C DP.

[s4itox]

I dunno, but seeing as that F-Nanaya caught that F-Seifuku a few times with BE5C -> IAD j.C, maybe there's something he's doing right?

[s4itox]

Actually, disregard that statement. I thought the F-Nanaya was catching a backwards tech, but the IAD j.C was legit part of combo.

[Rokunaya]

Asking again though I already know how futile it is, but I was considering making a Nanaya guide with all my knowledge of Option Selects and situational punishes/movement for Nanaya on console now that I've finally gotten my easycap. Is anyone actually interested in this? I know 1.05 Nanaya has a different playstyle, but almost all of the tools and options I can provide should still be there, just not as necessary to know anymore with loldamage and his new setups.

I doubt anyone really cares, but hey, what's the harm in asking, eh?