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Author Topic: 1.07 C-Ryougi  (Read 29260 times)

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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2012, 10:57:18 AM »
not to mention it's not going to be a situation that realistically comes up in actual gameplay most of the time.
You can do it after b rekkas, 623a, or 2c enders. Which aren't really that uncommon in Ryougi's gameplan. However, in those cases there are things that you can do that cover more options. IAD mixups, safejumps, meaty whatever, etc..

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2012, 11:03:46 AM »
not to mention it's not going to be a situation that realistically comes up in actual gameplay most of the time.
You can do it after b rekkas, 623a, or 2c enders. Which aren't really that uncommon in Ryougi's gameplan. However, in those cases there are things that you can do that cover more options. IAD mixups, safejumps, meaty whatever, etc..

yes, exactly...

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Offline keobas

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Re: Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2012, 06:51:34 PM »
Thanks rei for the heads up.

Im still trying to find my own groove with this character since im very weak in her traditional game play.

I'm starting to realize I'm too predictable due to my poor offensive mix up game. So I've been focusing on safe offense tactic other than block strings. One that I particullay like is doing rekkas but preferably 236a/b-214d since 214d as super cancel able.

I'm surprise no one does 623c on otg scenarios, It lunches with some follow up potential if position appropriately.
You can also launch with 8x from custom combos, but i usually pick up my sweeps with a combo though. Also the 236b rekka ender is great for setting up a nice L/R mixup on oki.

Alao you mean 214c right? Only problem is that you can get bunker punished on superflash if you throw your knife (22c) or shielded on 214/421c

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Offline Red Leather Jacket

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2012, 12:26:39 PM »
Yeah I thought those Oki options would be her only ones, thanks. But what can she do to take advantage of Oki though? 2A is just asking to get shielded once the opponent catches on, grab only sets up the same situation and I don't think she has an overhead that can lead into a combo, unless I'm missing something.

I noticed this question has gone pretty much unanswered and as someone who is really interested in C-Ryougi, I too would like to know how she can take advantage of Oki.  I just must not be very creative because I have a fairly difficult time coming up with creative ways of approaching a downed foe.
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2012, 01:12:58 PM »
It depends on how much time you have, but you're sort of on the right track.

The idea of oki is that anything can be punished if done too often. You have to change up what you do so that they don't catch on. For example: if you j.b every time, maybe whiff the j.b and 2a/throw to catch them off guard or if you 2a often then every once in a while throw instead.

So some examples: off of 236c into the corner. I dash under them as they are falling and then s.j9 8. Blocking l/r isn't that hard to guess, but at that range I can do as I said in the above paragraph.

I can:
j.b
whiff j.b 2a
2a
throw
tk.236a (which is an overhead BTW)
dodge or shield (beats reversals and mashing)

Offline Red Leather Jacket

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2012, 01:46:48 PM »
Thanks a lot, LivingShadow!

Your post has certainly leveled up my understanding of Oki and the various options available to Ryougi.
Going to have to do some experimenting in training mode to figure some more stuff out with her before Winter Brawl time comes around  :gonk:

I also need to get hit confirming down, I can do a few of the more basic Ryougi combos in training mode (2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC j.BC airthrow/236A or B and the standard custom combo...combo) but am having trouble hitting them reliably when sparring with the AI.  I imagine being able to do these in live fire situations just comes with time and practice though.
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Offline keobas

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2012, 02:01:13 PM »
Yeah I thought those Oki options would be her only ones, thanks. But what can she do to take advantage of Oki though? 2A is just asking to get shielded once the opponent catches on, grab only sets up the same situation and I don't think she has an overhead that can lead into a combo, unless I'm missing something.

I noticed this question has gone pretty much unanswered and as someone who is really interested in C-Ryougi, I too would like to know how she can take advantage of Oki.  I just must not be very creative because I have a fairly difficult time coming up with creative ways of approaching a downed foe.

My prefer option to use 623b.
* Minimal Punishable opportunity if blocked, possible to delay for mix up. Follow up opportunity if near corner.

*more to come

 But as the other said its best to use things subtly, only reason i use this as it counter fair amount of opponents wake up option with.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 05:28:08 PM by keobas »

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2012, 02:43:17 PM »
Thanks a lot, LivingShadow!

Your post has certainly leveled up my understanding of Oki and the various options available to Ryougi.
Going to have to do some experimenting in training mode to figure some more stuff out with her before Winter Brawl time comes around  :gonk:

I also need to get hit confirming down, I can do a few of the more basic Ryougi combos in training mode (2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC j.BC airthrow/236A or B and the standard custom combo...combo) but am having trouble hitting them reliably when sparring with the AI.  I imagine being able to do these in live fire situations just comes with time and practice though.

Hopefully I'll have my stick skills up to par, I'll be there myself so I could show you some stuff.

Quote from: keobas
623b
I've done this quite a bit myself, but it's more punishable than it may look. I'd suggest only doing it midscreen where the crossup has enough distance to get 2a to whiff. The main problem with doing it is that you commit and then you either have to do a low or the unblockable. (which in and of itself is not that bad of a mixup). I think the 623b unblockable is better than 5[c] because it's an untechable knockdown which you then get oki off of.

Offline Sashi

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2012, 03:21:00 PM »
If you do a j.B low enough, you can go into backdash(!) or block if they attempt a dp and you whiff the j.B.
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Offline keobas

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2012, 05:14:09 PM »

I've done this quite a bit myself, but it's more punishable than it may look. I'd suggest only doing it midscreen where the crossup has enough distance to get 2a to whiff. The main problem with doing it is that you commit and then you either have to do a low or the unblockable. (which in and of itself is not that bad of a mixup). I think the 623b unblockable is better than 5[c] because it's an untechable knockdown which you then get oki off of.
Can you mention few of the punishable things? I think you may be right in that regards to one has to commit to it. One thing I think that helps with the mix up is 421a/b.

But in the end Ryougi oki is the strongest when she cause a circuit break knock down from 6c,623c.  While it does cost meter it limits some wake up options which some character dependent on I think.

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2012, 06:18:44 AM »

I've done this quite a bit myself, but it's more punishable than it may look. I'd suggest only doing it midscreen where the crossup has enough distance to get 2a to whiff. The main problem with doing it is that you commit and then you either have to do a low or the unblockable. (which in and of itself is not that bad of a mixup). I think the 623b unblockable is better than 5[c] because it's an untechable knockdown which you then get oki off of.
Can you mention few of the punishable things? I think you may be right in that regards to one has to commit to it. One thing I think that helps with the mix up is 421a/b.

But in the end Ryougi oki is the strongest when she cause a circuit break knock down from 6c,623c.  While it does cost meter it limits some wake up options which some character dependent on I think.

Well, with 623b if you crossup there's just enough recovery for you to get hit by their 2a. If you end up in front of them, you will eat the 2a.

421b is the better of the two. 421a is slightly faster, but you can't jump cancel it, which is a huge downside. For a midscreen blockstring utilizing 421b (I'm assuming it's blocked) jump cancel and try to do a mixup coming down. Unfortunately, we lost the ability to cancel 421c into air normals so we can't do that absurd double crossup Shlopoke found in PS2.

I'd also like to point out that 421b's vacuum on hit has changed to a push. Makes it a little safer but makes oki off of a blocked one harder.

And unless it's meaty 421 loses to stuff like Kohaku 5b and Wara 2b. But it seems just barely safe on block. I think it's something like -4 on block, as you barely have enough time to block a 2a after you land and every time I do it I end up with a just guard.

The 421 and 623 series both have the downside that you have to commit to your choice. Once you do the input you can't do anything else until the attack comes out. But they look similar until 421 jumps so at least they'll have to guess which it is.

6c236c (This is what the input actually is, but it doesn't matter as long as the followup comes out.)
It does cut down on the options your opponent can use. But it's probably most effective on Nero as heat activation is his only decent reversal. I'm not really sure if it's this or 236c that is her best oki situation. The amount of time you have is about the same, maybe a bit more with 236c.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 06:21:42 AM by LivingShadow »

Offline Rei

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2012, 06:37:48 AM »
You don't have to really worry about nero heat with Ryougi that much on knockdowns. airthrow knockdowns won't give you meaty, but 5B can clash his heat. On a meaty knockdown, 2A 5C or option select your safe jump with j.B 44 1A.
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2012, 08:50:51 AM »
j.B 44 1A.
To explain how this works to the new people.

Multiple things can happen here:
j.b can hit in which case you chain into 2a because the hit eats the backdash input
j.b can whiff (due to dodge, dp, or heat activation) in which case you backdash out of the way
J.b can be blocked and then your opponent could reversal in which case you would block because the j.b hit would eat the backdash input

At least if, I'm remembering this right.

Offline Sashi

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1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2012, 08:52:53 AM »
So Street Fighter. OS everything.
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2012, 09:08:42 AM »
That's one way of doing it. It covers the most bases at once.

Offline keobas

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2012, 09:36:03 AM »
snip
I've been fooling around with punishable 2a scenarios from blocked 623b corner (Ex-block another story). I found that not everyones 2a can punish or even punish at all corner wise or not. 

Personally I'm bigger fan of 421a as it allow command cancel right away after hit, and I'm not finding many punishment if commit to command cancel. But 421b jump cancel is good.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 09:37:50 AM by keobas »

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2012, 12:44:55 PM »
snip
I've been fooling around with punishable 2a scenarios from blocked 623b corner (Ex-block another story). I found that not everyones 2a can punish or even punish at all corner wise or not. 

Personally I'm bigger fan of 421a as it allow command cancel right away after hit, and I'm not finding many punishment if commit to command cancel. But 421b jump cancel is good.
Command cancel? You mean EX cancel, right?

Ex canceling does make it easier to confirm on hit, but you can do an effective EX cancel on 421b by TKing the input. (421b 2369c for example)

Yeah, I've been noticing that against certain characters I have enough time to block. But I wouldn't rely on that.

Offline keobas

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2012, 04:23:24 PM »

Command cancel? You mean EX cancel, right?

Ex canceling does make it easier to confirm on hit, but you can do an effective EX cancel on 421b by TKing the input. (421b 2369c for example)

Yeah, I've been noticing that against certain characters I have enough time to block. But I wouldn't rely on that.
I mean command cancel, 421a allow one to cancel the recovery frames to a any Ryougi's air commands. I believe 421b does as well but timing is different.

I'm not implying 623b be use all the time but it nice option to use now and then.

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2012, 04:36:13 PM »
Oh, I see it now, specials only. That's new. It works on 421b too but you need to delay it a bit longer.

Offline Rei

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2012, 12:40:04 PM »
j.B 44 1A.
To explain how this works to the new people.

Multiple things can happen here:
j.b can hit in which case you chain into 2a because the hit eats the backdash input
j.b can whiff (due to dodge, dp, or heat activation) in which case you backdash out of the way
J.b can be blocked and then your opponent could reversal in which case you would block because the j.b hit would eat the backdash input

At least if, I'm remembering this right.

wrong on DPs. j.B whiffs and you backdash out of the way for those too. not the best thing to do depending on character. Also I should try to test with j.B 1A 2B or something like that for trying to clash heats.
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2012, 12:49:01 PM »
j.B 44 1A.
To explain how this works to the new people.

Multiple things can happen here:
j.b can hit in which case you chain into 2a because the hit eats the backdash input
j.b can whiff (due to dodge, dp, or heat activation) in which case you backdash out of the way
J.b can be blocked and then your opponent could reversal in which case you would block because the j.b hit would eat the backdash input

At least if, I'm remembering this right.

wrong on DPs. j.B whiffs and you backdash out of the way for those too. not the best thing to do depending on character. Also I should try to test with j.B 1A 2B or something like that for trying to clash heats.
Isn't that what I had written down?

Maybe something like (theoretically, I'm not sure if this actually works) j.b 1A~2B, ends up dodging the heat activation.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 12:51:23 PM by LivingShadow »

Offline Red Leather Jacket

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2012, 11:19:06 AM »
I am glad my little question sparked some discussion ^__^

I am learning a ton just by reading this thread and attempting to apply this all in training mode.

Still trying to get that option select down.

Also in regards to the custom combo...combo the timing for the 8X 6Xs seems pretty character dependent for example I am having a really easy time landing the full combo on Len, but on some larger characters I am having much more trouble /poorexecutionmonster
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 11:20:58 AM by Red Leather Jacket »
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2012, 08:13:15 AM »
Regarding the 214a combos. It seems that it's primarily due to the characters hitboxes, so it's character specific:

Nero and Wara: PS2 spacing and combos
Everyone else: CC spacing and combos

Offline Red Leather Jacket

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2012, 09:22:43 AM »
So far the combos I mainly use are:

2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 214A 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C (8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X) 5BB j.BC dj.BC  air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 236A 236A 236C 214C 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B

And I have been trying to get down the timing on:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A 2C 5C 236C
Because I can't really do this with any consistency I have been practicing this combo as well until I figure out the timing on the second 2C:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B

Are there any other crucial combos I should know?  Should I start to focus more on developing pressure, block strings, and mix-ups rather than these combos or in addition to them?
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Offline Greg

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Re: 1.07 C-Ryougi
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2012, 10:21:18 AM »
So far the combos I mainly use are:

2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 214A 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C (8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X) 5BB j.BC dj.BC  air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 236A 236A 236C 214C 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B

And I have been trying to get down the timing on:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A 2C 5C 236C
Because I can't really do this with any consistency I have been practicing this combo as well until I figure out the timing on the second 2C:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B

Are there any other crucial combos I should know?  Should I start to focus more on developing pressure, block strings, and mix-ups rather than these combos or in addition to them?

Honestly, if you can do a couple half decent combos consistently, working on everything else should be your priority.
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