Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Current Code => Shiki Ryougi => : Rei December 29, 2011, 07:33:09 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Will be adding content to the first post as this thread goes on. 214A change fucks with us in the corner and it becomes character specific on who 2C will cross under or not. Really messes with us. However, we got buffed custom combos.
Current combos I'm using
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.AAC land j.BC dj.BC j.236B
Against Akiha 2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff) 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC j.236B - 4.1k with full reduce. 5.7k without. Off of j.C it's 4.4k to 6.2k
Let that sink in for a second... The damage is absurd... I think C-Ryougi is now just "KILL THEM NOW WHO CARES ABOUT MIXUP" character. Sadly i think her okizeme is pretty weak unless you sacrifice a lot of damage now :/. Can't even link together full custom combos anymore with how they changed the gravity on the moves.
Will add more later
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Have you tried 214a (step into corner) 2c 5c 236c?
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Have you tried 214a (step into corner) 2c 5c 236c?
it's still a pain in the ass and doesn't seem to want to work right on everyone.
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Against Akiha 2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff) 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC j.236B - 4.1k with full reduce. 5.7k without. Off of j.C it's 4.4k to 6.2k
How does this part work? I know you just input the direction and any button I believe but the 2nd 6X doesn't seem to land.
And yeah, looks like I'm not the only person who thinks C-Ryougi is simply more about damage.
And you say that she has SOME form of Oki if you sacrifice damage, care to post some examples here? I'm currently not seeing it here.
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Against Akiha 2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff) 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC j.236B - 4.1k with full reduce. 5.7k without. Off of j.C it's 4.4k to 6.2k
How does this part work? I know you just input the direction and any button I believe but the 2nd 6X doesn't seem to land.
And yeah, looks like I'm not the only person who thinks C-Ryougi is simply more about damage.
And you say that she has SOME form of Oki if you sacrifice damage, care to post some examples here? I'm currently not seeing it here.
You need to delay the 6x a bit after the 8x. Keep working on the timing, it will eventually work.
To get oki off of Ryougi you have to do one of several things:
1: end on 236a236a236a
2: end on 236c
3: end on 2c
4: end on 623c
All of those require specific combos changes to enders. I'm fairly sure you can end the custom combo with 236c instead of 5a5c whatever.
Also, have you guys experimented with the 22c relaunch?
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Yeah I thought those Oki options would be her only ones, thanks. But what can she do to take advantage of Oki though? 2A is just asking to get shielded once the opponent catches on, grab only sets up the same situation and I don't think she has an overhead that can lead into a combo, unless I'm missing something.
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Against Akiha 2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff) 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC j.236B - 4.1k with full reduce. 5.7k without. Off of j.C it's 4.4k to 6.2k
How does this part work? I know you just input the direction and any button I believe but the 2nd 6X doesn't seem to land.
And yeah, looks like I'm not the only person who thinks C-Ryougi is simply more about damage.
And you say that she has SOME form of Oki if you sacrifice damage, care to post some examples here? I'm currently not seeing it here.
You need to delay the 6x a bit after the 8x. Keep working on the timing, it will eventually work.
To get oki off of Ryougi you have to do one of several things:
1: end on 236a236a236a
2: end on 236c
3: end on 2c
4: end on 623c
All of those require specific combos changes to enders. I'm fairly sure you can end the custom combo with 236c instead of 5a5c whatever.
Also, have you guys experimented with the 22c relaunch?
I don't want to spend 250 meter on 236C after custom combos. Also a lot of the damage comes from the ender as well :/...
And for the custom combo, you also need to delay all of the 8X except for the first one so they get launched at the right height and push them away so you don't cross up midscreen. Since gravity doesn't affect custom combos you can't do more than one custom for big damage :(.
For oki, her options are as Livingshadow said, also forgot that you can end with j.22C land 2C on any air combo (but uses your knife). Also 3rd 236B rekka is completely air untechable, so it's also considered a knockdown.
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So I think I got the timing for the first 8X 6X down, but as for the 8X, is the delay a bit slower or faster than delaying the 6X? And do the subsequent 6Xs have the same delay as the first 6X?
And as for stuff > j.22C > land > 2C, what is the timing like for this?
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So I think I got the timing for the first 8X 6X down, but as for the 8X, is the delay a bit slower or faster than delaying the 6X? And do the subsequent 6Xs have the same delay as the first 6X?
And as for stuff > j.22C > land > 2C, what is the timing like for this?
Basically, cancel the 6x right into the 8x and delay again for the next 6x. The delay is about the same.
I'm not sure of the exact timing since I don't have CC, but the there is a slight delay before you 2c after the 22c. Just use j.22c instead of the j.236b ender.
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Really? But didn't Linne say to delay the other 8Xs as well? Because I'm currently crossing them up which I'm not suppose to like what he said as well.
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I've never really messed around with the custom combos that much, his info is better than mine. If there is a delay for 8x it's very slight, if you delay too much they'll be grounded and if you delay too little you'll cross up.
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You need to delay the 8x quite a bit.
5A 5C is pretty hard to get consistent, but it does more damage than 5BB. You can do 5BB for consistency since it's easier, but it just sounds like you're not delaying things enough.
Also when you delay your 8x, you're letting them get pushed further away from you and be lower, so you won't cross up.
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mzenken on SRK uploaded a short video of C-Ryougi displaying 4 basic, yet effective combos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcNy7WGYz9g
And the last one shows the custom combo you guys are talking about and watching it now just helped me out ALOT. I'm starting to see the timing for the 8Xs. Going to practice again right now. :)
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Hey guys I've picked up this character back in AA. Now looking to solidify as she may be my top character. Haven'nt see match videos of how expert like to use her. Though she seems to shine in big damaging, I'm very weak in that department and mostly rely on other stuff.
I'm more effective as turtle so what type of stuff does C-Ryougi have to complement this?
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Hey guys I've picked up this character back in AA. Now looking to solidify as she may be my top character. Haven'nt see match videos of how expert like to use her. Though she seems to shine in big damaging, I'm very weak in that department and mostly rely on other stuff.
I'm more effective as turtle so what type of stuff does C-Ryougi have to complement this?
How about taking advantage of her normal's ranges to prevent your opponent from getting in your face? IIRC, 5B and 2B have decent range. I netplayed with a friend last night and was mostly using 5B and 2B in order to start combos and also to stay out of his 2A range.
But don't take my word for it, Linne and LivingShadow most likely have better advice for you.
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Hey guys I've picked up this character back in AA. Now looking to solidify as she may be my top character. Haven'nt see match videos of how expert like to use her. Though she seems to shine in big damaging, I'm very weak in that department and mostly rely on other stuff.
I'm more effective as turtle so what type of stuff does C-Ryougi have to complement this?
If you're looking to keep your opponent at range 5b and 5c are your best options. 2b may look like it's a good poke, but it is much more unsafe than it looks because it extends your hitbox so far forward that all they need to do is hit the tip of your knife. 5b and 5c both have better vertical range and have clash frames on the top of the hitbox. 5c can be half charged to mess with your opponent's timing or full charged for an unblockable. 5b can be followed up with b on hit to push your opponent further away.
All of this said, C-Ryougi has a much easier time with rushdown than turtling. I would suggest Aoko for that type of strategy.
Here's some footage of Ieda's C-Ryougi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFkNRbxn7zI
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^ Same video LivingShadow recently posted, but with links that take you straight to footage of Ieda's C-Ryougi so you don't have to spend time skipping through the video looking for them.
NASA(C-PCiel) vs Ieda(C-Ryougi) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFkNRbxn7zI#t=56m37s)
Yatagarasu(C-Satsuki) vs Ieda(C-Ryougi) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFkNRbxn7zI#t=61m59s)
Danon(F-Kohaku) & Nootsu(C-Hisui) vs Ieda(C-Ryougi) (http://youtu.be/RFkNRbxn7zI?t=1h16m53s)
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To be honest, it's not Ieda's best gameplay. But he's the best C-Ryougi I've seen out of Japan.
Edit:
I'd also like to mention that they fixed a lot of C-Ryougi's glitchiness and changed the 421 series.
421c is no longer cancelable into jump normals it's only jump cancelable.
421b and 421c no longer require you to reverse the inputs for the IAD.
I can confirm that 421a and b are EX cancelable now.
OTG 6c no longer allows for the command followup and will put you in front of them every time.
The 421b and 421c confirm combos are now 421b IAD towards opponent j.bc j.236b/airthrow 3.2k, back towards corner 421b IAD towards opponent j.bc 236c j.bc d.j j.bc 236b 4.5k, or corner 421b IAD towards wall [delay] j.c (5c optional) j.bc d.j j.bc 236b/airthrow 4.1k
Corner combos now go like this:
2b5bb5c2c 2369b 5bb 214a 623b 623a 4.2k (623b needs to be done as soon as you land from 214a)
2b5bb5c2c 2369b 5bb 214a 623a 4.2k (623a needs a slight delay or else it will whiff)
2b5bb5c2c 2369b 5bb 214a 236c 4.5k (very slight delay on 236c after you land from 214a)
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Ieda's team just won a 3on3 tournament at gamesky today. Was on stream, watched his play.
he did a lot of new things. First off, he moves hella fast. Like it's hard to follow him.
for some ground confirms, did 2A 5BB 2B 5C 236B 236B 236B walk backwards IAD forward j.B(whiff). This creates a L/R situation (did some testing myself, this is legit)
As expected he did a ton of air combos into j.22B 2C into rekka oki or 623A oki.
He tends to go into rekkas a lot now, and will do w/e into 236B 236B 236C 214C j.B(whiff) 5B 5C air combo. Or if he's in max after the j.B(whiff) he'll do 5A 236C (can probably get more damage into this)
He mixes it up with 421B which is confirmed into TKj.236B/C on hit.
He won with good spacing though. That's really what you should worry about, not combos.
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@Ichipoo: Thats and excellent starting point. Her normals have range and tricks that can screw with ur opponent. These really help out by poor hit confirm ability.
@LivingShadow: Your right about 2b being unsafe but I still use hit as raw 2b into bnb nets major damage. I've been using 5c BE against player with poor defensive game but I think good player will know how to deal with it so I should be subtle with it IMO. Aoko overwhelms me with her command set.
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Ieda's team just won a 3on3 tournament at gamesky today. Was on stream, watched his play.
he did a lot of new things. First off, he moves hella fast. Like it's hard to follow him.
for some ground confirms, did 2A 5BB 2B 5C 236B 236B 236B walk backwards IAD forward j.B(whiff). This creates a L/R situation (did some testing myself, this is legit)
I've known about this for a while. Instead of what he does I do s.j9 44 j.c (whiff). What he does is a little harder to read because the mixup depends on both the spacing before the IAD and the height of the IAD.
He mixes it up with 421B which is confirmed into TKj.236B/C on hit.
As I posted above, there's a better confirm. You can get 4.5k off of this if you have meter.
He won with good spacing though. That's really what you should worry about, not combos.
Yeah, Ieda's spacing is godlike. I'd like to especially point out his IAD spacing. Notice how the airdash always ends either right in front of his opponent or right behind them. Both are within j.b's hitbox.
@LivingShadow: Your right about 2b being unsafe but I still use hit as raw 2b into bnb nets major damage. I've been using 5c BE against player with poor defensive game but I think good player will know how to deal with it so I should be subtle with it IMO. Aoko overwhelms me with her command set.
2b isn't a horrible poke, but keep in mind what it does to your hitbox. I use it occasionally and I've clashed with heat activations with it.
BE5c is something just about everyone will fall for once. I'd suggest only pulling it out when you're sure they aren't expecting it.
If Aoko is too complicated Nero plays a similar game. But play whoever you're most comfortable with.
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I've known about this for a while. Instead of what he does I do s.j9 44 j.c (whiff). What he does is a little harder to read because the mixup depends on both the spacing before the IAD and the height of the IAD.
your mixup isn't nearly as good though. That one is actually really easy to see :/... the IAD one is harder to do, but definitely a lot harder to see. with more factors going into it.
As I posted above, there's a better confirm. You can get 4.5k off of this if you have meter.
Also your confirm is extremely spacing dependant. the j.236B/C can be done from any space so it's more-or-less universal. And the confirm would be IAD j.B j.C land j.B j.C dj.B j.C j.236B for 4.5k (on normal Sion) meterless...
If you want to use meter, sure use j.22C. I prefer to only use j.22C for creating oki though, so off of 421B tkj.22C you can get a 623A or 236B 236A 236A for oki. off any distance.
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I've known about this for a while. Instead of what he does I do s.j9 44 j.c (whiff). What he does is a little harder to read because the mixup depends on both the spacing before the IAD and the height of the IAD.
your mixup isn't nearly as good though. That one is actually really easy to see :/... the IAD one is harder to do, but definitely a lot harder to see. with more factors going into it.
I did say that his was better. Mine depends on the timing of the backdash for a similar mixup.
Also your confirm is extremely spacing dependant. the j.236B/C can be done from any space so it's more-or-less universal. And the confirm would be IAD j.B j.C land j.B j.C dj.B j.C j.236B for 4.5k (on normal Sion) meterless...
You can probably bump it up to 5.5k if you use meter. I don't think the spacing is that restrictive, but there is an ideal range for it.
If you want to use meter, sure use j.22C. I prefer to only use j.22C for creating oki though, so off of 421B tkj.22C you can get a 623A or 236B 236A 236A for oki. off any distance.
You don't need to tk it anymore. 421b is EX cancelable now.
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Will be adding content to the first post as this thread goes on. 214A change fucks with us in the corner and it becomes character specific on who 2C will cross under or not. Really messes with us. However, we got buffed custom combos.
Current combos I'm using
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.AAC land j.BC dj.BC j.236B
I've been trying out a variant where instead of j.AAC, you use j.C xx airdash j.C land.
I haven't been able to get it to connect though. Is it because I don't have the execution yet, or should I stop wasting my time?
Against Akiha 2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff) 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC j.236B - 4.1k with full reduce. 5.7k without. Off of j.C it's 4.4k to 6.2k
This combo is great. I have a hard time recovering after the 4X whiff to actually followup though, is the timing strict on canceling 8X to 4X?
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Just keep trying if you think it'll work (it will also help your execution)
also the timing is a little strict, but not very. Do it too early and your 4x will hit, do it too late and the 5B will whiff. But you do want to do it more on the quick side
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Here's a combo video crossuploaded from Nico: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ITa8KiMWY
Not really anything new, the only thing I noticed is that 22c seems to allow the old wallbounce combos.
I'll probably be throwing up a combo video sometime, it will have the corner combos and variations that I came up with.
Edit: right here: http://youtu.be/VoLGFtqI2x8
Before Rei jumps on me, I know there's better versions of most of those out there but they're the ones I had the execution to record.
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Airthrow combo is the one in the jourdal vid. 2C 5C 5BB air combo. And if you're going to do rekka combos, do the rekka loops (though they're hard :V)
Also you forgot the corner combos in to 214A 2C 2A(whiff) 2A 236A 236A 236A
imma jerk who judges too much!
edit: our biggest nerf :(
http://i.imgur.com/XaKVk.png
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Safejump Option Select after rekka oki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZECHiyPN5Y
edit: another corner combo with oki if doing 2C after 214A is proving to be too hard for you... Uses meter though
w/e into 2C 2369B 5BB 214A j.BC dj.BC j.22C 2C 22A(knifepickup) and you have oki. Just realized this after trying, but the knife goes right where your 2C ends up which was pretty neat. No mixup to say off it, but still interesting to note that you have it. Like if you get those far corner confirms where they're going to float too high after 214A but you're still in the corner during the j.B
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Airthrow combo is the one in the jourdal vid. 2C 5C 5BB air combo. And if you're going to do rekka combos, do the rekka loops (though they're hard :V)
Also you forgot the corner combos in to 214A 2C 2A(whiff) 2A 236A 236A 236A
imma jerk who judges too much!
edit: our biggest nerf :(
http://i.imgur.com/XaKVk.png
That's why I didn't do the rekka combos. I personally don't like ending combos in rekkas, but it does produce good oki.
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I dunno, safejump setup which beats almost ever reversal in the game is a pretty legit reason to use rekka enders... That and more damage + meter in the end.
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Can someone help me learn? the only combo I can do is 5C 2C 5BB j.BC j.BC j.236B or C :nyoro:
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What are you having trouble with? Honestly, it's just lots and lots of grinding as far as combos go.
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Can someone help me learn? the only combo I can do is 5C 2C 5BB j.BC j.BC j.236B or C :nyoro:
The first thing to go from there is to learn 2b5bb5c2c6c j.bc d.j j.bc j.236b.
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Can someone help me learn? the only combo I can do is 5C 2C 5BB j.BC j.BC j.236B or C :nyoro:
The first thing to go from there is to learn 2b5bb5c2c6c j.bc d.j j.bc j.236b.
This.
For me personally, I'm still having trouble with the custom combo, 2Cing after j.22C, and 2369Bing mid combo. :V
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For me personally, I'm still having trouble with the custom combo, 2Cing after j.22C, and 2369Bing mid combo. :V
I can't really help you with the custom combo but:
2c after j.22c: hold 6 as you fall from the j.22c and until you need to 2c
2369b: first off make sure you can do it outside of combos. After that, check the input display to see what inputs you're missing.
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So finally got to try MBAACC netplay and was dominated by the other plays. Something about it was just really off, I've dropped combos, and react slower. Though I still learned a few things. But I need help in these specific area.
Capitalizing on successful Bunker/ shield bunker
Ground to air scenarios
Safe oki
Mid/long range
I know these cant be generalize as match up needs to be consider but the overall concept of these with Ryougi is foreign to me.
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So finally got to try MBAACC netplay and was dominated by the other plays. Something about it was just really off, I've dropped combos, and react slower. Though I still learned a few things. But I need help in these specific area.
Capitalizing on successful Bunker/ shield bunker
Ground to air scenarios
Safe oki
Mid/long range
I know these cant be generalize as match up needs to be consider but the overall concept of these with Ryougi is foreign to me.
Here's my thoughts:
Bunkers:
There's not really much you can do off of bunkers. The best I can think of is a 2c tech punish.
Ground to Air:
Depending on range you can go with 5c or 214c, maybe 5a. But keep in mind that those are both punishable. C-Ryougi's ground to air game is rather bad.
Oki:
The aforementioned safejump after 236a236a236a. You can also do things off of 236c. I'll also need to experiment with 623a to see what's safe. There's also the IAD crossup that Rei mentioned earlier.
Long range:
It's possible to use the knife, but all that nets is a knockdown. Your best option is to try to work your way around the projectiles with the various movement options that Ryougi has.
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probably not really useful, but hitting a downed opponent with 5B and then immediately chaining that to 5[C] still forces the opponent up off the ground and into an unblockable without the usual chance of countering it via parry/dodge/backdash/whatever.
I used to do this just for fun in MBAA for a bit of unscaled damage at the end of a short combo, but I'm sure that if you have a hit there are much better things you could be doing.
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probably not really useful, but hitting a downed opponent with 5B and then immediately chaining that to 5[C] still forces the opponent up off the ground and into an unblockable without the usual chance of countering it via parry/dodge/backdash/whatever.
I used to do this just for fun in MBAA for a bit of unscaled damage at the end of a short combo, but I'm sure that if you have a hit there are much better things you could be doing.
set the dummy to down recovery -> forward you fucking scrub
edit: also shields are 0f startup
fake edit: also bdash is inv on wake
more fake edits: also opp can choose not to tech
super fake fraud edit: you are bad stop posting
let's keep going edits:
wakeup super
wakeup heat
wakeup dodge
wakeup last arc
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Translating that vat of bile:
Your opponent can tech after an OTG 5b so doing so will not guarantee a 5[c]. If you attempt that and your opponent techs properly you'll eat a ton of damage.
The most I've ever gotten off of an otg with Ryougi is 5bb5c, but that can now be extended into 5bb5c623c whatever (or at least in theory, I'm yet to test whether they can tech between 5c and 623c).
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Hit 5b and j.B -> profit
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probably not really useful, but hitting a downed opponent with 5B and then immediately chaining that to 5[C] still forces the opponent up off the ground and into an unblockable without the usual chance of countering it via parry/dodge/backdash/whatever.
I used to do this just for fun in MBAA for a bit of unscaled damage at the end of a short combo, but I'm sure that if you have a hit there are much better things you could be doing.
set the dummy to down recovery -> forward you fucking scrub
edit: also shields are 0f startup
fake edit: also bdash is inv on wake
more fake edits: also opp can choose not to tech
super fake fraud edit: you are bad stop posting
let's keep going edits:
wakeup super
wakeup heat
wakeup dodge
wakeup last arc
Totally missed what I was trying to say -.-
Regardless of ground + down tech, I tested it pretty extensively with human players and dummy recording as 2p off a neutral tech. Shield, dodge and backdash are all easy escapes for ryougi's unblockables after a proper knockdown, I KNOW this, but off a down tech it seems like shielding it or dodging doesn't work. Just a weird quirk I found interesting, though not really practical because of the down tech directions. That is what i'm talking about here. I never claimed it was practical or useful.
Like, off a regular knockdown it's pretty easy to just shield the unblockable, backdash, whatever. The CPU won't do it but a human player can. Off a ground tech, I wasn't able to do the same thing, even with pausing/unpausing and switching between human and dummy.
I'm pretty damn sure I'm not just imagining things either, but it could also just me being completely ignorant about down tech properties. (most likely the case)
And yes, I may be terrible at this game (and unhealthily obsessed with gimmicky shit like Ryougi's unblockables), but how else am I going to learn if I don't ask? :/
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^Did you try setting the CPU to auto shield/dodge?
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probably not really useful, but hitting a downed opponent with 5B and then immediately chaining that to 5[C] still forces the opponent up off the ground and into an unblockable without the usual chance of countering it via parry/dodge/backdash/whatever.
I used to do this just for fun in MBAA for a bit of unscaled damage at the end of a short combo, but I'm sure that if you have a hit there are much better things you could be doing.
set the dummy to down recovery -> forward you fucking scrub
edit: also shields are 0f startup
fake edit: also bdash is inv on wake
more fake edits: also opp can choose not to tech
super fake fraud edit: you are bad stop posting
let's keep going edits:
wakeup super
wakeup heat
wakeup dodge
wakeup last arc
Totally missed what I was trying to say -.-
Regardless of ground + down tech, I tested it pretty extensively with human players and dummy recording as 2p off a neutral tech. Shield, dodge and backdash are all easy escapes for ryougi's unblockables after a proper knockdown, I KNOW this, but off a down tech it seems like shielding it or dodging doesn't work. Just a weird quirk I found interesting, though not really practical because of the down tech directions. That is what i'm talking about here. I never claimed it was practical or useful.
Like, off a regular knockdown it's pretty easy to just shield the unblockable, backdash, whatever. The CPU won't do it but a human player can. Off a ground tech, I wasn't able to do the same thing, even with pausing/unpausing and switching between human and dummy.
I'm pretty damn sure I'm not just imagining things either, but it could also just me being completely ignorant about down tech properties. (most likely the case)
And yes, I may be terrible at this game (and unhealthily obsessed with gimmicky shit like Ryougi's unblockables), but how else am I going to learn if I don't ask? :/
Doesn't work, they can choose their tech after 5B OTG, it doesn't force them up or to not tech at all
Also unblockables in general are pretty easy to react to...
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Thanks rei for the heads up.
Im still trying to find my own groove with this character since im very weak in her traditional game play.
I'm starting to realize I'm too predictable due to my poor offensive mix up game. So I've been focusing on safe offense tactic other than block strings. One that I particullay like is doing rekkas but preferably 236a/b-214d since 214d as super cancel able.
I'm surprise no one does 623c on otg scenarios, It lunches with some follow up potential if position appropriately.
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Totally missed what I was trying to say -.-
Regardless of ground + down tech, I tested it pretty extensively with human players and dummy recording as 2p off a neutral tech. Shield, dodge and backdash are all easy escapes for ryougi's unblockables after a proper knockdown, I KNOW this, but off a down tech it seems like shielding it or dodging doesn't work. Just a weird quirk I found interesting, though not really practical because of the down tech directions. That is what i'm talking about here. I never claimed it was practical or useful.
Like, off a regular knockdown it's pretty easy to just shield the unblockable, backdash, whatever. The CPU won't do it but a human player can. Off a ground tech, I wasn't able to do the same thing, even with pausing/unpausing and switching between human and dummy.
I'm pretty damn sure I'm not just imagining things either, but it could also just me being completely ignorant about down tech properties. (most likely the case)
And yes, I may be terrible at this game (and unhealthily obsessed with gimmicky shit like Ryougi's unblockables), but how else am I going to learn if I don't ask? :/
Okay, I get what you're doing now. It's a neutral tech-punish. However, it will only work on a neutral tech, maybe a back tech if in the corner. If they forward tech (which puts them behind you) you'll eat a full combo for 3-5k depending on the character and how much meter they have.
I should also point out that if they don't tech, you'll just whiff.
I suppose it isn't the worst thing you could do in that situation, but if you have time to do that, you have time to do mixups.
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Thanks rei for the heads up.
Im still trying to find my own groove with this character since im very weak in her traditional game play.
I'm starting to realize I'm too predictable due to my poor offensive mix up game. So I've been focusing on safe offense tactic other than block strings. One that I particullay like is doing rekkas but preferably 236a/b-214d since 214d as super cancel able.
I'm surprise no one does 623c on otg scenarios, It lunches with some follow up potential if position appropriately.
You can also launch with 8x from custom combos, but i usually pick up my sweeps with a combo though. Also the 236b rekka ender is great for setting up a nice L/R mixup on oki.
Alao you mean 214c right? Only problem is that you can get bunker punished on superflash if you throw your knife (22c) or shielded on 214/421c
Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk
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probably not really useful, but hitting a downed opponent with 5B and then immediately chaining that to 5[C] still forces the opponent up off the ground and into an unblockable without the usual chance of countering it via parry/dodge/backdash/whatever.
I used to do this just for fun in MBAA for a bit of unscaled damage at the end of a short combo, but I'm sure that if you have a hit there are much better things you could be doing.
set the dummy to down recovery -> forward you fucking scrub
edit: also shields are 0f startup
fake edit: also bdash is inv on wake
more fake edits: also opp can choose not to tech
super fake fraud edit: you are bad stop posting
let's keep going edits:
wakeup super
wakeup heat
wakeup dodge
wakeup last arc
Totally missed what I was trying to say -.-
Regardless of ground + down tech, I tested it pretty extensively with human players and dummy recording as 2p off a neutral tech. Shield, dodge and backdash are all easy escapes for ryougi's unblockables after a proper knockdown, I KNOW this, but off a down tech it seems like shielding it or dodging doesn't work. Just a weird quirk I found interesting, though not really practical because of the down tech directions. That is what i'm talking about here. I never claimed it was practical or useful.
Like, off a regular knockdown it's pretty easy to just shield the unblockable, backdash, whatever. The CPU won't do it but a human player can. Off a ground tech, I wasn't able to do the same thing, even with pausing/unpausing and switching between human and dummy.
I'm pretty damn sure I'm not just imagining things either, but it could also just me being completely ignorant about down tech properties. (most likely the case)
And yes, I may be terrible at this game (and unhealthily obsessed with gimmicky shit like Ryougi's unblockables), but how else am I going to learn if I don't ask? :/
i'm quite aware of what you intend to do. it doesn't work.
this isn't arcana, you don't forcestand them like that. try playing real people instead of testing 1 setting on cpu dummy.
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i'm quite aware of what you intend to do. it doesn't work.
this isn't arcana, you don't forcestand them like that. try playing real people instead of testing 1 setting on cpu dummy.
No, it does work. But it isn't a combo, it's a neutral tech punish. The 5b puts them in a techable state after the otg, so, if they neutral tech the 5[c] hits them in the tech animation.
That said, it's not very reliable as a punish as if they do anything except neutral tech you're going to whiff.
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right, it "works" for the one situation and i listed like a dozen places it won't work, not to mention it's not going to be a situation that realistically comes up in actual gameplay most of the time. i hope anyone that actually plays c-ryougi realizes this
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not to mention it's not going to be a situation that realistically comes up in actual gameplay most of the time.
You can do it after b rekkas, 623a, or 2c enders. Which aren't really that uncommon in Ryougi's gameplan. However, in those cases there are things that you can do that cover more options. IAD mixups, safejumps, meaty whatever, etc..
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not to mention it's not going to be a situation that realistically comes up in actual gameplay most of the time.
You can do it after b rekkas, 623a, or 2c enders. Which aren't really that uncommon in Ryougi's gameplan. However, in those cases there are things that you can do that cover more options. IAD mixups, safejumps, meaty whatever, etc..
yes, exactly...
there's no need for subpar strats to be propagated; we should always encourage going for the best options in a situation, and unblock is not it
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Thanks rei for the heads up.
Im still trying to find my own groove with this character since im very weak in her traditional game play.
I'm starting to realize I'm too predictable due to my poor offensive mix up game. So I've been focusing on safe offense tactic other than block strings. One that I particullay like is doing rekkas but preferably 236a/b-214d since 214d as super cancel able.
I'm surprise no one does 623c on otg scenarios, It lunches with some follow up potential if position appropriately.
You can also launch with 8x from custom combos, but i usually pick up my sweeps with a combo though. Also the 236b rekka ender is great for setting up a nice L/R mixup on oki.
Alao you mean 214c right? Only problem is that you can get bunker punished on superflash if you throw your knife (22c) or shielded on 214/421c
Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk
good to know
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Yeah I thought those Oki options would be her only ones, thanks. But what can she do to take advantage of Oki though? 2A is just asking to get shielded once the opponent catches on, grab only sets up the same situation and I don't think she has an overhead that can lead into a combo, unless I'm missing something.
I noticed this question has gone pretty much unanswered and as someone who is really interested in C-Ryougi, I too would like to know how she can take advantage of Oki. I just must not be very creative because I have a fairly difficult time coming up with creative ways of approaching a downed foe.
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It depends on how much time you have, but you're sort of on the right track.
The idea of oki is that anything can be punished if done too often. You have to change up what you do so that they don't catch on. For example: if you j.b every time, maybe whiff the j.b and 2a/throw to catch them off guard or if you 2a often then every once in a while throw instead.
So some examples: off of 236c into the corner. I dash under them as they are falling and then s.j9 8. Blocking l/r isn't that hard to guess, but at that range I can do as I said in the above paragraph.
I can:
j.b
whiff j.b 2a
2a
throw
tk.236a (which is an overhead BTW)
dodge or shield (beats reversals and mashing)
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Thanks a lot, LivingShadow!
Your post has certainly leveled up my understanding of Oki and the various options available to Ryougi.
Going to have to do some experimenting in training mode to figure some more stuff out with her before Winter Brawl time comes around :gonk:
I also need to get hit confirming down, I can do a few of the more basic Ryougi combos in training mode (2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC j.BC airthrow/236A or B and the standard custom combo...combo) but am having trouble hitting them reliably when sparring with the AI. I imagine being able to do these in live fire situations just comes with time and practice though.
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Yeah I thought those Oki options would be her only ones, thanks. But what can she do to take advantage of Oki though? 2A is just asking to get shielded once the opponent catches on, grab only sets up the same situation and I don't think she has an overhead that can lead into a combo, unless I'm missing something.
I noticed this question has gone pretty much unanswered and as someone who is really interested in C-Ryougi, I too would like to know how she can take advantage of Oki. I just must not be very creative because I have a fairly difficult time coming up with creative ways of approaching a downed foe.
My prefer option to use 623b.
* Minimal Punishable opportunity if blocked, possible to delay for mix up. Follow up opportunity if near corner.
*more to come
But as the other said its best to use things subtly, only reason i use this as it counter fair amount of opponents wake up option with.
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Thanks a lot, LivingShadow!
Your post has certainly leveled up my understanding of Oki and the various options available to Ryougi.
Going to have to do some experimenting in training mode to figure some more stuff out with her before Winter Brawl time comes around :gonk:
I also need to get hit confirming down, I can do a few of the more basic Ryougi combos in training mode (2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC j.BC airthrow/236A or B and the standard custom combo...combo) but am having trouble hitting them reliably when sparring with the AI. I imagine being able to do these in live fire situations just comes with time and practice though.
Hopefully I'll have my stick skills up to par, I'll be there myself so I could show you some stuff.
623b
I've done this quite a bit myself, but it's more punishable than it may look. I'd suggest only doing it midscreen where the crossup has enough distance to get 2a to whiff. The main problem with doing it is that you commit and then you either have to do a low or the unblockable. (which in and of itself is not that bad of a mixup). I think the 623b unblockable is better than 5[c] because it's an untechable knockdown which you then get oki off of.
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If you do a j.B low enough, you can go into backdash(!) or block if they attempt a dp and you whiff the j.B.
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I've done this quite a bit myself, but it's more punishable than it may look. I'd suggest only doing it midscreen where the crossup has enough distance to get 2a to whiff. The main problem with doing it is that you commit and then you either have to do a low or the unblockable. (which in and of itself is not that bad of a mixup). I think the 623b unblockable is better than 5[c] because it's an untechable knockdown which you then get oki off of.
Can you mention few of the punishable things? I think you may be right in that regards to one has to commit to it. One thing I think that helps with the mix up is 421a/b.
But in the end Ryougi oki is the strongest when she cause a circuit break knock down from 6c,623c. While it does cost meter it limits some wake up options which some character dependent on I think.
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I've done this quite a bit myself, but it's more punishable than it may look. I'd suggest only doing it midscreen where the crossup has enough distance to get 2a to whiff. The main problem with doing it is that you commit and then you either have to do a low or the unblockable. (which in and of itself is not that bad of a mixup). I think the 623b unblockable is better than 5[c] because it's an untechable knockdown which you then get oki off of.
Can you mention few of the punishable things? I think you may be right in that regards to one has to commit to it. One thing I think that helps with the mix up is 421a/b.
But in the end Ryougi oki is the strongest when she cause a circuit break knock down from 6c,623c. While it does cost meter it limits some wake up options which some character dependent on I think.
Well, with 623b if you crossup there's just enough recovery for you to get hit by their 2a. If you end up in front of them, you will eat the 2a.
421b is the better of the two. 421a is slightly faster, but you can't jump cancel it, which is a huge downside. For a midscreen blockstring utilizing 421b (I'm assuming it's blocked) jump cancel and try to do a mixup coming down. Unfortunately, we lost the ability to cancel 421c into air normals so we can't do that absurd double crossup Shlopoke found in PS2.
I'd also like to point out that 421b's vacuum on hit has changed to a push. Makes it a little safer but makes oki off of a blocked one harder.
And unless it's meaty 421 loses to stuff like Kohaku 5b and Wara 2b. But it seems just barely safe on block. I think it's something like -4 on block, as you barely have enough time to block a 2a after you land and every time I do it I end up with a just guard.
The 421 and 623 series both have the downside that you have to commit to your choice. Once you do the input you can't do anything else until the attack comes out. But they look similar until 421 jumps so at least they'll have to guess which it is.
6c236c (This is what the input actually is, but it doesn't matter as long as the followup comes out.)
It does cut down on the options your opponent can use. But it's probably most effective on Nero as heat activation is his only decent reversal. I'm not really sure if it's this or 236c that is her best oki situation. The amount of time you have is about the same, maybe a bit more with 236c.
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You don't have to really worry about nero heat with Ryougi that much on knockdowns. airthrow knockdowns won't give you meaty, but 5B can clash his heat. On a meaty knockdown, 2A 5C or option select your safe jump with j.B 44 1A.
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j.B 44 1A.
To explain how this works to the new people.
Multiple things can happen here:
j.b can hit in which case you chain into 2a because the hit eats the backdash input
j.b can whiff (due to dodge, dp, or heat activation) in which case you backdash out of the way
J.b can be blocked and then your opponent could reversal in which case you would block because the j.b hit would eat the backdash input
At least if, I'm remembering this right.
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So Street Fighter. OS everything.
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That's one way of doing it. It covers the most bases at once.
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snip
I've been fooling around with punishable 2a scenarios from blocked 623b corner (Ex-block another story). I found that not everyones 2a can punish or even punish at all corner wise or not.
Personally I'm bigger fan of 421a as it allow command cancel right away after hit, and I'm not finding many punishment if commit to command cancel. But 421b jump cancel is good.
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snip
I've been fooling around with punishable 2a scenarios from blocked 623b corner (Ex-block another story). I found that not everyones 2a can punish or even punish at all corner wise or not.
Personally I'm bigger fan of 421a as it allow command cancel right away after hit, and I'm not finding many punishment if commit to command cancel. But 421b jump cancel is good.
Command cancel? You mean EX cancel, right?
Ex canceling does make it easier to confirm on hit, but you can do an effective EX cancel on 421b by TKing the input. (421b 2369c for example)
Yeah, I've been noticing that against certain characters I have enough time to block. But I wouldn't rely on that.
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Command cancel? You mean EX cancel, right?
Ex canceling does make it easier to confirm on hit, but you can do an effective EX cancel on 421b by TKing the input. (421b 2369c for example)
Yeah, I've been noticing that against certain characters I have enough time to block. But I wouldn't rely on that.
I mean command cancel, 421a allow one to cancel the recovery frames to a any Ryougi's air commands. I believe 421b does as well but timing is different.
I'm not implying 623b be use all the time but it nice option to use now and then.
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Oh, I see it now, specials only. That's new. It works on 421b too but you need to delay it a bit longer.
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j.B 44 1A.
To explain how this works to the new people.
Multiple things can happen here:
j.b can hit in which case you chain into 2a because the hit eats the backdash input
j.b can whiff (due to dodge, dp, or heat activation) in which case you backdash out of the way
J.b can be blocked and then your opponent could reversal in which case you would block because the j.b hit would eat the backdash input
At least if, I'm remembering this right.
wrong on DPs. j.B whiffs and you backdash out of the way for those too. not the best thing to do depending on character. Also I should try to test with j.B 1A 2B or something like that for trying to clash heats.
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j.B 44 1A.
To explain how this works to the new people.
Multiple things can happen here:
j.b can hit in which case you chain into 2a because the hit eats the backdash input
j.b can whiff (due to dodge, dp, or heat activation) in which case you backdash out of the way
J.b can be blocked and then your opponent could reversal in which case you would block because the j.b hit would eat the backdash input
At least if, I'm remembering this right.
wrong on DPs. j.B whiffs and you backdash out of the way for those too. not the best thing to do depending on character. Also I should try to test with j.B 1A 2B or something like that for trying to clash heats.
Isn't that what I had written down?
Maybe something like (theoretically, I'm not sure if this actually works) j.b 1A~2B, ends up dodging the heat activation.
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I am glad my little question sparked some discussion ^__^
I am learning a ton just by reading this thread and attempting to apply this all in training mode.
Still trying to get that option select down.
Also in regards to the custom combo...combo the timing for the 8X 6Xs seems pretty character dependent for example I am having a really easy time landing the full combo on Len, but on some larger characters I am having much more trouble /poorexecutionmonster
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Regarding the 214a combos. It seems that it's primarily due to the characters hitboxes, so it's character specific:
Nero and Wara: PS2 spacing and combos
Everyone else: CC spacing and combos
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So far the combos I mainly use are:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 214A 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C (8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X) 5BB j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 236A 236A 236C 214C 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
And I have been trying to get down the timing on:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A 2C 5C 236C
Because I can't really do this with any consistency I have been practicing this combo as well until I figure out the timing on the second 2C:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
Are there any other crucial combos I should know? Should I start to focus more on developing pressure, block strings, and mix-ups rather than these combos or in addition to them?
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So far the combos I mainly use are:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 214A 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 63214C (8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X) 5BB j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
2A 5BB 2B 5C 236A 236A 236C 214C 5A 5C j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
And I have been trying to get down the timing on:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A 2C 5C 236C
Because I can't really do this with any consistency I have been practicing this combo as well until I figure out the timing on the second 2C:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A j.BC dj.BC air throw/236B
Are there any other crucial combos I should know? Should I start to focus more on developing pressure, block strings, and mix-ups rather than these combos or in addition to them?
Honestly, if you can do a couple half decent combos consistently, working on everything else should be your priority.
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Really, I can do the harder combos but I still go for the easy combos unless the difference in damage will end up in a kill. Dropped momentum is way worse than losing like 200 damage. Working on ways of gaining momentum like spacing and keeping momentum like okizeme is almost always better than working on combos as long as you can do 4k or so off of a confirm.
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Your combo list is good enough. You can actually add in another 6x 8x in your custom combo. There are other combos, but work on general gameplay first so you know what hits to confirm off of
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Thanks all!
I have been training a lot with Funky-Kun (a V.Akiha player on this forum) and have been leveling up quite a bit!
The match up versus V.Akiha is really rough for me though, not only does he have much more experience than I do, but those corner mix ups are insane. :psyduck:
C-Ryougi's lack of a true reversal makes it super hard to get out of the corner once he gets me in there.
What is the solution? I mean there is always Heat but that can be baited so easily...
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Thanks all!
I have been training a lot with Funky-Kun (a V.Akiha player on this forum) and have been leveling up quite a bit!
The match up versus V.Akiha is really rough for me though, not only does he have much more experience than I do, but those corner mix ups are insane. :psyduck:
C-Ryougi's lack of a true reversal makes it super hard to get out of the corner once he gets me in there.
What is the solution? I mean there is always Heat but that can be baited so easily...
Become godlike at defense.
Though if you want to press buttons so badly, you can use shields too, but those can be baited really hard.
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Yeah, the VAkiha matchup primarily relies on defense because you're both playing glass cannons.
Make sure you block the flame pits, don't try anything fancy on them (trying 214c to get out of them on wakeup doesn't work, I tried it on LPT and got blown up for it). Most of the rest is just knowing your opponent's pattern.
For general VAkiha blockstrings go for the usual "block high when they're in the air, block low when they're on the ground" and watch out for 6c (the curb-stomp) which is an overhead. You're going to want to jump out after a blocked 6c or if they're pushed out too far. Maybe shield 623c but only against single hitting attacks.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc4mDPRfJ0#t=6m50s
I tend to pick H for the matchup, but this is a nice sample nonetheless. I dunno what the move is, but the player uses it twice to escape agaist post-airthrow oki. Consider using it with moderation together with heat to escape.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc4mDPRfJ0#t=6m50s
I tend to pick H for the matchup, but this is a nice sample nonetheless. I dunno what the move is, but the player uses it twice to escape agaist post-airthrow oki. Consider using it with moderation together with heat to escape.
That's 421c. It has 3 frames of invincibility on startup but after that you can get hit by flamepits and stuff. Not a bad choice against F, but never do it against Flamepit oki.
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So after you land a clean 6C you can do 236c for knockdown and circuit break
Any thoughts on that?
So like potentially you can go 2b5bb5c6c236C and does 3.4k
I know you spend 100 meter for it and less damage, but you get knockdown for oki and put your opponent in a circuit break
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Sure, if the enemy is near or at full meter, go for it. Otherwise, you can just do rekka ender. Denying heat/ex/charge shield on wake up is great, though.
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So after you land a clean 6C you can do 236c for knockdown and circuit break
Any thoughts on that?
So like potentially you can go 2b5bb5c6c236C and does 3.4k
I know you spend 100 meter for it and less damage, but you get knockdown for oki and put your opponent in a circuit break
Having investigated this a while ago. (In the PS2 version you could OTG 6c236c for a weird tech punish.) Here are my thoughts:
Down time is comparable to 236c. You have time to do 3 ways or what ever you want. The newly added circuit break makes it scarier than 236c against certain characters who rely on their meter to reversal out of your mixups. It's much harder to get in than 236c (in that you have to actively combo into it most of the time and you have to still be in a ground string) and the damage is more or less equal. It really depends if you thing locking out their meter is worth it.
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I guess I'm the only one researching Ryougi right now.
I have some more info about the corner combos, specifically when to do the ps2 vs CC combos.
For most characters you will end up doing the CC combos most of the time. But, when you connect the corner combo from maximum range (5bb barely connects off of the wallbounce) the spacing allows for the ps2 combos instead of the CC ones. The only exception is Nero, who will always require the ps2 combos.
I've also been playing around with the oki off of my 623b 623a ender. The spacing is just right for a sj.9 to land right behind them (close enough to connect a crossup j.b). With a step of movement you can probably end up in front of them, but I haven't tested that out yet. If you do a normal jump forward you end up in 5c range. So, if you jump forward j.c 5[c] you might be able to surprise them with an unblockable. Or you could just go into a blockstring.
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C-Ryougi ground normals on block
5A: -1
2A: -1
5B: -6
5BB: -4
2B: -1
5C: -4
2C: -12
6C: -9
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Apparently, the only change is that 2c is now -12 instead of -10.
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Rei, do you know her frame data on block in full moon?
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So I've been playing C-Ryougi (CRYougi? :J) for a little while now trying to level up my game, and I thought I might as well register and contribute to the discussion (mostly with questions) instead of just lurking.
So yeah, yesterday I was trying out some new combos from air-to-air counter hits, trying to see how much damage I could reliably get out of a single j.5B counter.
I used to do the simple "j.5B 5BB j.5BC j.5BC AT/236", for about 3.4k damage. But then I realized that by omitting the first 5BB you can save your ground-jump cancel for later in the combo, coming up with "j.5B (land) j.5BC j.5BC j.22C 2C 5BB j.5BC j.5BC AT/236", netting me nearly 4.2k damage for the cost of 100 meter and the knife.
I guess the question is if I should start trying to use "j.5B (land) j.5BC j.5BC j.22C 2C 5BB j.5BC j.5BC AT/236" or if there's any better alternatives to use the 100 meter on?
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So I've been playing C-Ryougi (CRYougi? :J) for a little while now trying to level up my game, and I thought I might as well register and contribute to the discussion (mostly with questions) instead of just lurking.
So yeah, yesterday I was trying out some new combos from air-to-air counter hits, trying to see how much damage I could reliably get out of a single j.5B counter.
I used to do the simple "j.5B 5BB j.5BC j.5BC AT/236", for about 3.4k damage. But then I realized that by omitting the first 5BB you can save your ground-jump cancel for later in the combo, coming up with "j.5B (land) j.5BC j.5BC j.22C 2C 5BB j.5BC j.5BC AT/236", netting me nearly 4.2k damage for the cost of 100 meter and the knife.
I guess the question is if I should start trying to use "j.5B (land) j.5BC j.5BC j.22C 2C 5BB j.5BC j.5BC AT/236" or if there's any better alternatives to use the 100 meter on?
5bb aircombo is probably the easiest one to land, but if you're looking for something more advanced I'd suggest j.b (counter) land 2b5c j.bc d.j j.bc 236b/AT (which does about 4k) Which you could probably extend to j.b (counter) land 2b5c j.bc d.j j.bc 22c land 2c5bb j.bc d.j j.bc 236b/AT
The biggest thing you want to keep in mind for things like this is the proration of the moves you're using.
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I never thought of using 2B 5C for a launcher, the timing is tight, but I'll try to get it down.
Unfortunately your second relaunch combo won't work, the single jump-cancel gets used after 2B 5C.
I can relaunch with j.22C 2C 5BB 214C, but it's a waste of meter and I only do it when I'm showing off, haha.
But thanks for the 2B 5C trick, I'll try and incorporate it into my play.
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Right, for some reason I keep on forgetting about the one jump cancel rule.
Anyway, here's the reason for the increased damage:
5bb sets the proration to 70% so the jumping attacks do 70% damage. Compared to 2b5c which If I remember correctly sets the proration at about 85%. I think you can also do 5b5c for similar damage, but the timing is still sort of strict.
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Honestly, I only use j.22C to get oki off of air combos, I'll use j.22C land 2C A rekkas or just 2C 2A whiff. I personally believe that getting oki is a lot stronger since we're able to get it more off of regular hits.
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The problem with that is that the limits of my oki is pretty much.
A) Meaty normal.
B) Jump meaty normal, crossup maybe one in ten times because I cannot get it going.
C) Throw.
I have pretty bad oki, but feel pretty good about my neutral game, so at the moment the extra damage benefit me more.
The one thing I truly want to get better at now is blockstrings, I usually just go for 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6C 236 rekka.
Sometimes charging the 5C or 6C, reverse beating to 2A after 2C trying for a blockstring reset, I've been trying to get down 22C after rekka for a free reset, but my rekka execution is rather bad, mostly I go for 22C after 6C. Sometimes if I'm feeling risky I go 214B for a overhead.
I'm not really sure what to do with my pressure really, I want to put some throws in there, but I cannot really find an attack that puts me in a position to dash in and just throw them.
Kinda stunted on how to get more safe options for my pressure really.
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9 minute long C Ryougi video showcasing 63214 combos, okizeme setups, and assorted combos.
People who can read moonspeak will find this pretty interesting. I'm too lazy to translate...
edit: whoops, forgot link lol
http://youtu.be/sKdHmYrRm7w
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He keeps on going for the 4x OTG relaunch instead of whiffing it and continuing. That really kills the damage in some of the combos. Other than that, not really anything I'm interested in learning at the moment.
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I think he was doing those combos for fun, just to show what they can do. And also to tell us viewers not to fret if we miss the timing, we can still OTG relaunch.
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He shows the max damage custom combo which is worth noting. Another thing worth noting is the 200% corner combo, where you end an air combo with 22C and then do 236C at certain heights and dash out of the corner. Higher hits don't leave corner space, lower hits leave corner space, you can get it to be really ambiguous but it's pretty hard to time since it's purely visual.
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I'll have to look into it more, I've been practicing the custom combo but I don't have it down yet.
I've been fooling around with the corner combos in training mode. Kohaku seems to be the hardest to combo correctly. Ideally you should be doing the PS2 combos but if you're too close to the corner you have to delay the 5bb214a so you don't get 5bb236a in which case you have to do the CC combos.
Speaking of that spacing, it seems to be mostly based on height. It's easiest to see on Kohaku because you can do either combo on her. But my guess on the change was correct, they added a collision hitbox into 214a. The end result is that if your opponent ends up high enough (or you're far away enough) that you pass underneath them without colliding you end up in the corner, if you collide they're pushed into the corner and the bounce puts them more or less right above you with you facing the corner.
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I for one didn't know 63214C 8X OTG'd. That's a pretty cool thing to have, imo. Furthering my belief that Crescent is the jack-of-all-trades with plenty of potential...
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you should never have to OTG unless it's off of something like 421B though :/... But yeah you can mess up your timing for custom combos but still not drop it, though your damage will drop a lot...
Anyway my list of BnBs now, I'm not going for hard stuff anymore...
normal string is any string which uses 5A 2A 5B 2B or 5C.
aerial = j.B j.C dj.B j.C j.236B or airthrow
Midscreen - max damage meterless
normal string -> 2C 6C j.A j.A j.C land aerial
Midscreen - meterless oki
normal string -> 236B 236B 236B walk back IAD j.A(really any jump normal) L/R mixup.
Midscreen - max damage 100% meter
normal string -> 236B 236B 236C 214C j.A(whiff) 2C 5C 5BB aerial
Midscreen - air counterhit confirm with sweep into hard knockdown 100% meter (also works off air throw)
2C 5C 5BB j.B j.C dj.B j.C j.22C land 2C 236A 236A 236A (last rekka input reversed midscreen)
Simple confirm off air counter-hit to the above would be with something like a 5BB pickup into the j.B j.C part.
Global easy corner combo
normal string -> 2C tk.236B 5BB 214A j.9 aerial
This will keep them into the corner and you can throw meter into this at the end for oki or more for a neat left/right mixup.
100% addition to this -> instead of j.236B or airthrow: j.22C 2C A-Rekkas
another 100% addition to the previous -> instead of 2C: 236C dash out of the corner IAD jA(whiff). Depending on the height that they were hit at, it will make corner space the lower the opponent is when they're hit. Higher up there is no corner space. Try to make it look like it's in the middle where it could be either to make it ambiguous.
Corner meterless oki combo
normal string -> 2C tk.236B 5BB 214A 2C 2(A) whiff [optional 2A 236A 236A 236A]
This combo is a little tricky on some characters, you need to delay the 214A to get people to float lower before they can tech, and the optional followup is tricky on some characters, if you can't get it consistently or don't know who it's weird on, you should probably just stop there. Against some characters without the optional followup you get a Left/Right mixup with tk.236B
Midscreen custom combo 150% closer version
normal string -> 63214C (8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff)) 5BB aerial
Midscreen custom combo 150% far version
normal string -> 63214C (5X 8X D 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff)) 5BB aerial
Corner custom combo 150%
normal string -> 63214C (8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff)) 5BB 214A aerial.
Max damage custom combo
j.C 2B 5B 5C 63214C (8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 6X 8X 4X(whiff)) 5BB 214A aerial
DAMAGE IS CRAAAAAZY
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-combos-
I agree more or less. Some notes:
Midscreen - max damage 100% meter
You can whiff any air normal, j.a just has the least chance of connecting by accident.
Corner
Look through my previous posts on info for the spacing for these. Watch out when doing them on Kohaku when you're near the corner.
Custom Combo
I'd like to add this one:
Custom Combo 150% - Oki Ender
Normal String - 63214c 8x 6x 8x 6x 8x 6x D
You sacrifice about 1k of damage for a mixup. I think there was a more ambiguous version of this, but I'll have to look it up.
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I'm pretty sure it's more than 1000 damage though... But if I'm blowing meter for a damage combo, I want damage...
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It's a difference of about 1.2 on Kohaku. I guess I just have different priorities.
I'd also like to bring these up again for my own reference.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12407128
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Also I figured out the corner mixup combo on Kohaku.
Normal String -> 2C tk.236B 5BB 214A j.8{optional j.B}j.C airdash dj.A j.B j.C j.22C 236C
It's a bit harder, but gets the job done.
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Just a random note due to my experimentation with a trap.
The AAD will only grab 5a or 2a in it's recovery frames if the 5/2a is executed out of blockstun.
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Eh? What do you mean?
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Perhaps I worded that weirdly.
Here's the situation:
V.Sion's 5a out of blockstun
frames 1-5 AAD doesn't grab
frames 6+ AAD grabs
For example, try the following two situations with the dummy set to 5a on recovery.
5b ~ AAD
2a ~ AAD
The AAD grabs on the first situation and not the second.
By grabs, I mean the lines show up.
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I would like to say it's throw protection where a mashed 5A will beat out a tick throw (in this case AAD if it was close)
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Is it just that Recovery A is dumb? H/F's command parries don't work on them either.
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Good to know, I figured it was something like that. Makes my trap have absurd execution requirements.
Is it just that Recovery A is dumb? H/F's command parries don't work on them either.
For reference, 5b 41236c (AAD) works on H parry.
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I mean if you do 421A with HRyougi against VSion Recovery 5A, it stops the attack and Ryougi goes through the normal animation, but it doesn't throw them.
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It's not just recovery 5A, it does it even of 5A when I tested the dummy doing 5A parry and I mashed 5A with Ryougi. It's a buggy move overall, pretty bad.
Either way, this is C-Ryougi topic :/
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Anyway, what I was attempting was (cross-up)623b ~ AAD. It DOES work, but the timing has a window of 1 frame or so. You have to get the AAD to start on exactly the right frame so you get the invul to ignore the 5/2a and you get the AAD throw.
421b land AAD is much easier but I don't see people actually falling for it. You're outside of 2a range for the most part.
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More of Ieda's Ryougi. I can't believe half the stuff he pulls actually works on human opponents.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KPqgS6umU
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Anybody have any ideas on possible new tech for C-Ryougi? So far all I've been finding have been pointless ex combo extensions that don't add any damage.
Latest one I tried was: 2b5bb5c2c 2369b 5bb 214a 623b 5bb214c j.a (whiff) 2c (about 4k)
You can control what side you end up on by changing the timing on 5bb after 623b. If you want to be silly you can loop the 5bb 214c j.a (whiff) 2c as long as you still have meter, but you won't effect damage much.
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I'm working on a video about the character specific 214a spacing using my own combos as a reference. Will edit it in here when I'm done.
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some mixups:
after 2c:
tk 236b for right left mix up
after 236c in corner:
SJ922b for right left mix up (delaying the SJ will change the side)
after midscreen 236b
walk away and iad j.a for right left
you can j.22a/b after a 421b, meaning you can return to neutral or apply pressure using the a or b version.
after a midscreen knockdown:
SJ9, backdash, cross up j.b.
well, there are plenty of tricks to do at wake up. being as unpredictable as possible helps. for example, after a knockdown in the corner you can jump, j.b, ad, j.a, land throw, or j.b dash jb j.236a. or backdash 623[a]/. if you want try something new in the middle of a match, do it.
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-snip-
Not really anything new, but I suppose having the compilation is going to help someone.
When using 421b you can just jump strait up and come down with a mixup. It is jump cancelable after all.
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Well, I'm looking for some new stuffs with ryougi and her corner tk combo. So far this is what i have:
well, the base combo is:
2a 5c 2b 5b 2c 2369b (delay) 5bb 214a
now from here:
Normal one:
2c 2a (whiff) 2a 236a236a236a
sandoori:
623a (input while you are in the recovery of the 214): it will end with you in the corner, so you can go for a 4-way
damage ender:
after 214a j.bc j.bc at/236b/c
neutral air punish tech:
this is pretty hard and you can be sure of it, but well, 1500 dmg and sandoori for free is always good:
after 214: charge 623b
ONLY WORKS IF: you drop the combo at 214, and your opponent neutral air tech it. Since ryougi running against the wall looks pretty stupid, i think it may work, they would try to tech and punish you. I think it may work when you cant kill them with the combo, and they are mashing for a tech.
well hope it helps somebody. I haven't try that tech punish in a real match yet, so, if anyone can give it a try and tell us how it goes.
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A human would just shield it. And I don't think anyone would neutral tech that. =[ Looks cool, though.
EDIT: If you want to waste meter, you can do 2C 5C 5BB 214C and catch that into rekka enders for shitty mid screen rekka mixups.
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i dont want to waste meter, any of those stuff i posted used meter. go to training and try that tech punish, you'll see its pretty impredicteble and imposible to react. If they tech neutral, they get hit by the charged dp
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If they don't tech, they mash 2A on wake up for 5k.
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you have to do it in a moment you are sure they are mashing hardly for a tech... its kind of a mindtrick when they are about to die, but you can't kill they with the combo. anyway, it's a random idea, that just may be useful sometime, it may be interesting to someone, since there is not much c-ryougi talk lately..,
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I'd rather just finish the combo with 623b 623a and airdash pressure.
And keep in mind that anything after 214a is character specific. I'm presuming you were doing this on VSion, try it on Kohaku.
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tested, looks like it works on everyone.
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i dont want to waste meter, any of those stuff i posted used meter. go to training and try that tech punish, you'll see its pretty impredicteble and imposible to react. If they tech neutral, they get hit by the charged dp
You're not really wasting meter once you hit max mode. People should be abusing EX more often when it gets activated.
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does anyone have a stable otg string for opponents that opt not to tech/air tech? i usually only get a few hits off.
I note stable, rather than optimal, because my execution is ass.
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I don't think OTG is that practical with Ryougi, but if you have a situation when you can I found that 2aa5bb is decent.
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236C relaunch? =[
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2c 22c, and then go for whatever you like, rekkas, air combo, more hits, dunno.
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To reiterate I'm actually looking for meter buildibg otg strings mostly, but i'm liking these suggestions.
My opponent notechs a lot so I've been trying to find ways to maximize my damage output.
Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2
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236C relaunch? =[
You mean 623c. 236c doesn't OTG to my knowledge.
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Same thing. =[
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As with most of C's combos, it's character dependent. I think the suggestion is to walk toward the wall for a frame or so before using 2c to ensure you get under them.
I just use 623b 623a knockdown. Some characters you can't land the 623b correctly, so you just have to do 623a.
My guess is that you're actually doing the 2c a bit early.