When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?

Author Topic: 1.07 H-Ryougi  (Read 32751 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CPhame

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
  • Magic Circuits: 5
  • 二次元の世界へ
    • View Profile
1.07 H-Ryougi
« on: January 01, 2012, 10:56:12 PM »
Starting a new thread dedicated to Half moon style Ryougi.  She's a little worse for the wear, but still versatile and stuff and stuff.

Changes to 1.07:

+ 5A is now one frame faster (6 frames).
+ 2B is now two frames faster (9 frames).
+ 63214B has faster startup.
+ Crouching picks up knife automatically in neutral state.
+ 22A_B_C manual knife pick up command now has less recovery frames.
+ 236A 236A 236C rekka ender is now EX cancelable.
+ 236C now has two additional invincibility frames on startup (7 frames).
+ 236C and 623C can OTG after untechable knockdown.


- 2C now has two less active frames (14-16 frames).
- 4C is now two frames slower (27 frames).
- j.A hitbox slightly smaller.
- j.B hitbox reduced in size, one frame slower (8 frames).
http://i.imgur.com/3VFms.png
- j.6B hitbox reduced in size, one frame slower (8 frames).
http://i.imgur.com/VkcOY.png
- j.C hitbox reduced in size.
http://i.imgur.com/T8JtV.png
- 236A character hitbox increased slightly.
- 214A lands outside of corner during combos.
- 41236C Arc Drive is now escapeable after super flash.
- Overall health reduced to 11416 points (PS2 level).
- Rising rate now slower, increased to 15 frames.
http://bit.ly/x1vLI7


Feel free to add any more data on additional changes.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 01:48:09 AM by CPhame »
digitalpugilist.com

Offline LivingShadow

  • Magus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1287
  • Magic Circuits: 55
  • Sanity is overrated
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2012, 11:07:11 PM »
Here's Fusui's H-Ryougi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlAYiSAvAE

H-Ryougi has way better options off of the j.22c ender.

Offline weika

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • (´з`)y-~
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2012, 11:16:27 PM »
Oh man, and I was JUST about to make a thread myself (and for F as well) Hahaha

So anyways, I think 2C is alot slower now? TK-ing j.236B after 2C seems to have this awkward timing to it but it's still doable.
Also, no 3C loop :'(
I don't think you can combo 623B from 3C now. Still have to check properly.

As far as corner combos go I did a quick one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35zrS4a-ev0

I think I can do more damage though, after j.B whiff 2C 3C 22A probably can work and could also add a 623B in there as well. Now to find the most optimal midscreen bnb :V

Offline CPhame

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
  • Magic Circuits: 5
  • 二次元の世界へ
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2012, 11:44:33 PM »
I've been watching those Fusui vids.  Really excellent work.  I've never really used 6AA that much in Actress Again, and from what I've heard, it's a much better anti-air device than before.  That's something she needed quite badly, imo.

Nice combo, Weika. I was worried Ryougi couldn't break 5k off of her regular corner combos anymore. Thanks for dispelling that myth.
digitalpugilist.com

Offline Greg

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Magic Circuits: 25
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 01:16:36 AM »
After maining h-ryougi for the past year and a half... I can't say I'm happy with what I've seen so far.

The 214A and 2C changes both suck hard. Pointlessly destroyed our old combos.

Good ol' (2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c tk236b 5bb 214a 2c 5c 22a 2c 3c 623b 236a 236a 236a) doesn't work anymore.

For whatever reason there's a weird space behind them when you 214A that makes you 2C in the opposite direction from MBAA. I still haven't figured out the circumstances exactly but depending on your timing (and I guess distance away from your opponent?) 2C may also decide to go the direction she used to go, so maybe you can get her to go the right direction with the right timing? Regardless, Not fun.

I can't tell if 2C is that much slower. I personally didn't have any problems combo'ing tk236b after it but the hitbox is definitely definitely significantly lower. You can't use the same timing you used for catching people with it in knife combos as you did in MBAA. The timing definitely feels tighter (gayer). 

I'm suddenly having a lot more trouble landing the knifeless midscreen rejump combo. I think they might have toned down the top of the hitbox on her JC but I'm not really sure. It may just be the new buffer fucking me up.

4c definitely feels slower. I'd say it feels about the speed of an average overhead now as opposed to an extremely fast one. I haven't actually looked at the frame data.

Ryougi does look like she has some better oki options off of a j22c ender but it still kinda seems like a waste of meter unless you want to burn meter to avoid going into heat. They can tech once they hit the ground so you need to tag them with a 2c before they land to get untechable knockdown. It doesn't really give her any new options because you simply could have done a ground combo that resulted in untechable knockdown and comparable oki. I guess you could try and create some sort of tech trap thing but, given a choice between untechable and techable knockdown.. I think I'd rather make sure that my opponent stays in the corner.

The new speed on the 63214 series was definitely needed to make the moveset more viable but it's still super retarded. I can't really in good conscience say that I think any of these will show themselves to be a useful tool. 63214a, the only marginally useful one is kinda just a bad 22a without the plus frames.

As for her health.... It's not any higher than it was in console. Her health was buffed for 1.05 but they nerfed it back down to around where it was originally for 1.07. When you consider the fact that she now has her old health back but lost what I think is in relation to the rest of the cast comparatively significant damage on all of her combos, it really does not leave her in good shape. Her low health was forgivable before because her damage was extremely formidable and her meter gain from the sweep loop made her significantly less mushy, however, now that she's lost both of those things, her health is crippling and retarded.

Positives:
*She has a strong reversal (22c)
*She has long normals with retarded clash frames

Negatives:
*She has no health
*She has mediocre damage
*Her normals have terrible recovery
*She has no mixup
*She lacks reliable tools (aka most of her specials side towards gimmicky or useless)
*She has no health

So, I've come to a point in my Melty career where I need to re-evaluate this character and decide whether or not to reinvest time into learning her new shit. Sadly,  I don't really think I can find a compelling reason to continue to play her. There are other characters that can simply do all the things that H-Ryougi does and they don't bleed nearly as much for it.  If anyone wants to point out the giant gaping holes in my arguments, go ahead.  :emo:


Nice combo, Weika. I was worried Ryougi couldn't break 5k off of her regular corner combos anymore. Thanks for dispelling that myth.
He used 100% meter and it was on Ryougi (Psss... She has no defense!)

I don't think you can combo 623B from 3C now. Still have to check properly.
It still works fine.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 01:23:03 AM by Greg »
It makes me sick to think I was fucking a woman who was having sex with an alligator.

Offline MasaBlade

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Magic Circuits: 0
  • The Proud Lolicon, A.K.A. Dickhands
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 01:42:41 AM »
^I think you went a little overboard lol. you make it sound like she's a garbage character right now and she's really not. if you really liked the character you wouldnt mind learning her new stuff; it'll be just as rewarding.
H-Ryougi gang or get your anus knifed~

Offline CPhame

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
  • Magic Circuits: 5
  • 二次元の世界へ
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 01:53:00 AM »
I didn't realize they nerfed her health.  Do you have a source?  And do you happen to know how much health Ryougi had in 1.05?  I crunched the numbers and came out with 11488 health (she had 11416 in the PS2 version). 

That's fucking sad.

Regardless, I don't think she's a glass cannon anymore.  More like a glass pistol.  That does hardly any damage.  Which is also sad, because that was the thing that made her worth playing.

I do agree with the point that you have to use meter more often now with her combos. The induction of j22C and OTG 236C prove it. Unfortunately it seems like her bread and butter combos give less meter now, and when you couple that fact with her wonky combos now...you get the picture.

2C doesn't feel slower to me.  It just feels like the hit box changed up.  I did notice after an hour's worth of training mode practicing tk236B > BB > 236B etc combo that if I delayed the tk motion and BB input, 2C hit the correct way.  Seems way too tight of a combo now, and equally risky if they can tech out of it.  No bueno.

On the plus side, 5A>6A is better, her air throw is comboable, and knife mind games are much, much better.  Even though it's early, I'd stick H-Ryougi at B tier, low A tier for what it's worth.
digitalpugilist.com

Offline weika

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • (´з`)y-~
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 02:22:18 AM »
Who has the highest defense btw?

I used Ryougi due to her weird hitbox, if it works on her then that's good for me. I just tested the same combo on Kouma, Ciel, Nero and a few others. Dmg is around 4.6-9k, probably gonna be ~4.3k when fully mashed.

EDIT: Fusui is awesome, why haven't I seen this guy sooner. :psyduck:
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 02:50:20 AM by weika »

Offline LivingShadow

  • Magus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1287
  • Magic Circuits: 55
  • Sanity is overrated
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 08:03:53 AM »
Who has the highest defense btw?

I used Ryougi due to her weird hitbox, if it works on her then that's good for me. I just tested the same combo on Kouma, Ciel, Nero and a few others. Dmg is around 4.6-9k, probably gonna be ~4.3k when fully mashed.

EDIT: Fusui is awesome, why haven't I seen this guy sooner. :psyduck:
Highest defense is Akiha.

I think Fusui usually plays C-Aoko, but he did rather well with H-Ryougi.

Offline Greg

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Magic Circuits: 25
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2012, 11:29:33 AM »
I didn't realize they nerfed her health.  Do you have a source?  And do you happen to know how much health Ryougi had in 1.05?  I crunched the numbers and came out with 11488 health (she had 11416 in the PS2 version). 

There was an updated defense value chart floating around IRC.

Her defense values in PS2 were:
1.05,1 ,.95, .95
Pretty sure 1.05 was:
1.05, .97, .89, .86
They're now:
1.05, 1.02, 0.98, 0.95

On the plus side, 5A>6A is better, her air throw is comboable, and knife mind games are much, much better.  Even though it's early, I'd stick H-Ryougi at B tier, low A tier for what it's worth.
Air throw being combo-able is a universal change.

^I think you went a little overboard lol. you make it sound like she's a garbage character right now and she's really not. if you really liked the character you wouldnt mind learning her new stuff; it'll be just as rewarding.

She's not garbage, she's just really unremarkable. If you want to stick with her because you have character love, you'll probably do alright. But if you want to pick a character that has a lot to offer, I'd probably start looking elsewhere.

I also completely forgot to rant about her arc-drive changes as well. No longer does she have her awesome tick ex command throw arc drive thing, it's just the same old knife user arc drive. It's so easy to jump out of it makes me :emo:. I don't want to just yell USELESS!!! without actually trying to hit people with it but... come' on...

According to Livingshadow, Ryougi also has a normal wake up speed now.

She's just not nearly as interesting or as gay as she used to be.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 11:33:32 AM by Greg »
It makes me sick to think I was fucking a woman who was having sex with an alligator.

Offline weika

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • (´з`)y-~
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 03:16:38 AM »
Found a better corner combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk-3J9le17M

First off, it's basically the same combo but with 22A and another 5C 5BB. Also, you gain more heat so that's better.

As I said earlier, after j.B(w) you can land > 3C into 623A/B or rekka for oki (haven't tested them out yet, but it should be possible.

This can easily reach 5K+ on characters w/good defense with j.C starter.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 03:19:25 AM by weika »

Offline Charby

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Magic Circuits: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 10:13:24 AM »
Actualy i do think the best combo in corner regarding oki is this one:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C TK 236B 5BB 214A 5A 22A 3C 623B 2C 3C 623C
And for the midscreen it's something like that without ex:
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 236A 236A 214A
And with the 22C In air something like this.
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6AA JB JC JB JC 22C 2C 3C 623B 623A

Ending with airthrow is realy bad.

All shown in the fusui vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlAYiSAvAE
 
And now 63214A is frame positive so you can 63214A 2A for example in pressing
I just cant get any of this done yet...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 10:19:24 AM by Charby »

Offline weika

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • (´з`)y-~
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 12:18:18 PM »
Found a better corner combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk-3J9le17M

First off, it's basically the same combo but with 22A and another 5C 5BB. Also, you gain more heat so that's better.

As I said earlier, after j.B(w) you can land > 3C into 623A/B or rekka for oki(haven't tested them out yet, but it should be possible.)

This can easily reach 5K+ on characters w/good defense with j.C starter.

Yeah... :V
Besides, it does more damage too.

I'm testing out the best midscreen combo, with oki atm. Will post it later.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 12:21:50 PM by weika »

Offline CPhame

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
  • Magic Circuits: 5
  • 二次元の世界へ
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 12:26:28 PM »
I did some digging. Turns out 2C has two less active frames than the PS2 version.  That might explain why the timing is so weird now on tk236B combos.

On another topic, does anyone know a meterless combo that breaks 5k? (and gives good oki)
digitalpugilist.com

Offline weika

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • (´з`)y-~
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 06:16:50 PM »
I did some digging. Turns out 2C has two less active frames than the PS2 version.  That might explain why the timing is so weird now on tk236B combos.

On another topic, does anyone know a meterless combo that breaks 5k? (and gives good oki)

Ahh, figured. You can definitely feel the reduction in active frames for 2C, even more after doing 214A into 2C in the corner, timing is pretty tight.

meterless combo, with oki and 5K... hmm that's pretty hard lol. Unless it's on a low defense character and is a j.C starter then I guess it's possible.

Welp, corner only: j.C 2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C TKj.236B 5BB 214A 2C 5C 22A 3C 236A 236A 236A does 5.4K on VSion lol.

Also, best midscreen, meterless oki combo imo: 2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C 22A 2C 3C 623B 2C 236A 236A 236A does 3.7K on Akiha.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 12:19:41 AM by weika »

Offline BurstOfAnger

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 635
  • Magic Circuits: 13
  • Vatista's chest is 1 inch larger than Linne's
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2012, 06:32:35 AM »
I did some digging. Turns out 2C has two less active frames than the PS2 version.  That might explain why the timing is so weird now on tk236B combos.

On another topic, does anyone know a meterless combo that breaks 5k? (and gives good oki)

Would that be two active frames less in the beginning or the end of the move?
Immortalize! 1st Clause! DIVIDE!

Waldstein is pronounced wa-REN-shu-tain. French Bread trollin'.

Offline CPhame

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
  • Magic Circuits: 5
  • 二次元の世界へ
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2012, 08:29:00 AM »
Startup is the same at 14 frames, but only lasts until frame 16.
digitalpugilist.com

Offline Ichipoo

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 31
  • Magic Circuits: 2
  • 刑事メイド ルキア! <3
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2012, 09:42:54 AM »
So in a nutshell, can anybody explain how H is different from C? And if any, what reasons would you say one would choose H over C?

/curious
Back from a MB hiatus after 4 1/2 years.

Offline Numakie

  • Magus Candidate
  • ****
  • Posts: 945
  • Magic Circuits: 19
  • Oh nooooz~~!
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2012, 09:59:23 AM »
So in a nutshell, can anybody explain how H is different from C? And if any, what reasons would you say one would choose H over C?

/curious

I like Knife gimmicks and her 3C sweep.
Being half moon is a plus too. Can't go too crazy with meter though cuz she needs all the life she can get.
~~Playing the wrong way... and somehow getting away with it.~~
<Pfhor>: no, I only have nightmares about your play numakie
<Pfhor>: because it makes no fucking sense
<Pfhor>: like WHY IS THIS HISUI DOING THESE THINGS

Offline LivingShadow

  • Magus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1287
  • Magic Circuits: 55
  • Sanity is overrated
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2012, 10:07:47 AM »
H-moon advantages:
Half auto counter
Half auto burst
Can catch the knife out of the air
Can pick up knife just by crouching
better range on 5c
blockstrings are tighter

C-moon advantages:
Max mode/ controlled meter
5 unblockables
421 series
AAD

Offline Greg

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Magic Circuits: 25
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2012, 12:38:11 PM »
The real reason to pick H is the knife. She has the best move set with it out of any moon and given that she can catch it in the air or pick it up without inputting 22x, it gives you something substantial to work with against zoners. How important that is to you, you'll have to decide. The other moons, especially F now, are probably better otherwise.
It makes me sick to think I was fucking a woman who was having sex with an alligator.

Offline LivingShadow

  • Magus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1287
  • Magic Circuits: 55
  • Sanity is overrated
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2012, 12:46:48 PM »
I will maintain that H has better blockstrings than C. C has to rely on delays and unblockables while H has a legit overhead.

Offline CPhame

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
  • Magic Circuits: 5
  • 二次元の世界へ
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2012, 01:21:02 PM »
Don't forget that H moon has the best set of frame traps and ground normals.  Except for air-to-ground normals. She really suffers from that.

Combo damage is on par / slightly less than F moon with tighter execution.
digitalpugilist.com

Offline Charby

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Magic Circuits: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2012, 04:30:04 PM »


Also, best midscreen, meterless oki combo imo: 2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C 22A 2C 3C 623B 2C 236A 236A 236A does 3.7K on Akiha.

This is slighty better
2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C 22A 2C 3C 623B 2C 623A (Knife Pickup)

Offline weika

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Magic Circuits: 1
  • (´з`)y-~
    • View Profile
Re: 1.07 H-Ryougi
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2012, 06:31:42 PM »


Also, best midscreen, meterless oki combo imo: 2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C 22A 2C 3C 623B 2C 236A 236A 236A does 3.7K on Akiha.

This is slighty better
2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C 22A 2C 3C 623B 2C 623A (Knife Pickup)

Yeah, that's better actually. Leaves you really close to the knife so you can pick it up again. Rekka version does a little bit more damage but you have to IADB to pick it up.