Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Current Code => Shiki Ryougi => : LivingShadow May 23, 2011, 06:56:37 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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With all the changes happening with ver 1.05 I think it's appropriate to discuss the possibilities it presents us.
First off, for F and H players:
As this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9KiJAXx2KA) shows, 236c is now jump cancelable.
For H and C players:
Even though there hasn't been any video of it yet, I am presuming that 623b will be increasingly useful in combos due to the new OTG mechanics. If somebody finds confirmation of this, post it up.
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Would it be possible to relaunch with 236A 236A 236B then? =o
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Would it be possible to relaunch with 236A 236A 236B then? =o
Theoretically, but we don't know if the non-ex version is jump cancelable, so the gravity could make it prohibitive.
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Just guessing, since her third B rekka is her only "normal" launcher so far, not counting third C rekka which has huge startup.
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Just guessing, since her third B rekka is her only launcher so far.
For F-moon, C and H also have 623b.
That said, Ryougi hasn't had much of an OTG game to begin with. The only thing I know of is the 6c gimmicks I was trying out.
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Hmm, OTG tricks only involved knife pickups after OTG hits and then continuing the OTG. But we'll have to wait for more gameplay material in order to check that out.
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With all the changes happening with ver 1.05 I think it's appropriate to discuss the possibilities it presents us.
First off, for F and H players:
As this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9KiJAXx2KA) shows, 236c is now jump cancelable.
For H and C players:
Even though there hasn't been any video of it yet, I am presuming that 623b will be increasingly useful in combos due to the new OTG mechanics. If somebody finds confirmation of this, post it up.
I thought it was already in Ver 1.0 of CC?
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I thought it was already in Ver 1.0 of CC?
CC allowed cancel into 214c from 236c, not a jump cancel from 236b.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwEI35CCOgM#t=7m15s H-Ryougi vs F-Arc
Look at the speed of that knife pick up. :o
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Wow, that's almost cancel speed. That's H-only BTW as far as I know.
Also, is it just me or is 63214 faster? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah8jGi24BC4#t=13m15s)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwEI35CCOgM#t=7m15s H-Ryougi vs F-Arc
Look at the speed of that knife pick up. :o
I tried that combo on the PS2 and it works, so it's not a buff.
And 63214B is definitely faster, she used to hover a bit before she threw the knife.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwEI35CCOgM#t=7m15s H-Ryougi vs F-Arc
Look at the speed of that knife pick up. :o
I tried that combo on the PS2 and it works, so it's not a buff.
And 63214B is definitely faster, she used to hover a bit before she threw the knife.
... He was just showing the match, not the first combo that Ryougi used. That's a standard corner combo that has always been known.
Knife pickup is now 5 frames (was 17 in console)
She pretty much gets a whiff cancel with a knife pickup minus the negative penalty.
also this new bnb involves picking the knife up mid-combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah8jGi24BC4#t=13m27s
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Yea I meant that new combo works on PS2.
I somehow thought the H-Ryougi vs F-Arc video was a link to it.
Although its good news that knife pickup is actually buffed.
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I remember seeing 3c being mentioned as one of the things that they made adjustments to. Have we seen any sweep loop footage? Kinda hoping everything still works. Hopefully they didn't screw with it too much.
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I remember seeing 3c being mentioned as one of the things that they made adjustments to. Have we seen any sweep loop footage? Kinda hoping everything still works. Hopefully they didn't screw with it too much.
sweep loop was taken out after people were doing them at the loketests for MBAACC1.0
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Ah, I had no idea. That's unfortunate.
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So what change did they make to 3c that caused the sweep loop to be impossible?
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3rd 236C rekka is ex cancellable in C moon. confirmed from watching Ieda just mash that shit all the time
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I has been EX-cancellable for a while now.
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Since Mad Scientist announced that he's going to bring 1.05 to GVN I think now would be a good chance to brainstorm on possible combos and other things to try out.
My first thought is to see if 2c 623b is a valid launcher since they've implemented OTG launching. Here's the data from MBAA ps2:
2a2b5bb5c2c6c= 2872 (51% compensation value) my current bnb launcher
2a2b5bb5c2c 623b = 2704 (48% compensation value)
2a2b5bb5c2c 623c = 2753 (60% compensation value)
This is all theoretical, bear with me
If 2c 623b works 2c 623c could yield better damage, but we have the problem of range. While it is sort of possible to connect 2c from 623b from that distance it would be hard to do without a wall blocking your movement and 623c travels way too far. However, if 623b works and since 623c is untechable we could use 623b to continue the combo.
Let's see, calculating the damage...
2753 (2a2b5bb5c2c 623c) + 292 (623b (1200*0.24) 60% compensation value, 40% OTG, 24% total) + 1037 (5bb j.bc d.j j.bc 236b (5400*0.48*0.40) 48% Compensation Value, 40% OTG)
Presuming my math is correct that is 4082 using 100% meter.
If we use a second 623c to relaunch the damage changes to 4341
Edit: OTG does apply based on my calculations and watching C-Kohaku's otg 5cc5b in 1.05.
Since OTG applies, it's not really worth it. But maybe one of you can think of a good use for this info.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but 623B doesn't OTG relaunch.
However 623C does.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but 623B doesn't OTG relaunch.
However 623C does.
I was mostly guessing based on what I already knew about the move properties. I guess 623b isn't considered a "Launcher" for whatever reason.
623C has better proration anyway, you'll need all you can get with that additional 40% reduction on the OTG combo.
If anyone is thinking about trying to use 236x236x236b to relaunch, I doubt it will work well if at all. The first rekka doesn't OTG and the second one seems to allow teching on OTG.
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I recently got back from playing around with C-Ryougi CC.
I noticed the following:
214/421 series seem to be safer (might just have been lag, but I had enough time to block a 2a after a blocked 214b)
22c relaunches
421c relaunches (not sure)
And I tried that 623c combo, it works but the damage isn't that great. I'm thinking of trying to tack it onto the end of the meterless corner combo I posted in the C-Ryougi thread.
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I was able to spend about an hour or two in CC sorta training mode.
Here's what I can gather for C-Ryougi.
2C hitbox is LOWER, the rekka loops are harder to do, and probably more character specific.
5C clashbox changed. It still has clash, but 2A 5C meaty didn't clash against wakeup heat. it was either that, or the input delay messing me up, but I'm pretty sure I was hitting meaty 2A 5C...
421C glitch has been removed. You get counterhit if they meaty you while trying to do this EX.
LAST ARC STILL DOES 7K FLAT. LOOOOOOOOOOOL
Custom combo 8X relaunches, so a possible hitconfirm is off of 2C 63214C 8X -> w/e custom combo you want.
You also get another rep of 6X 8X in custom combo, does about 5k+ to Nanaya off of 2A 5BB 2B 5C.
C-Ryougi is a lot of the same as before though. Nothing really changed that much. 623B slower, can't tick-arc drive anymore, 2C hitbox is lower, 2A 5C OS doesn't seem like it works anymore, though 5B clashing is still amazing.
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Has anyone seen anything from Ryougi in 1.07 yet?
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So H-Ryougi can pickup her knife on the ground by just CROUCHING.
She can still cancel into knife pickup as usual.
Checked C/F-moon and they don't have this.
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Wow. H-Ryougi's knife game must be insane.
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So H-Ryougi can pickup her knife on the ground by just CROUCHING.
She can still cancel into knife pickup as usual.
Checked C/F-moon and they don't have this.
That's really stupid.
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So I've been busy with midterms lately but, here's one more thing I found:
In the corner, 214A doesn't connect the same way anymore.
214A will wall slam and leave a corner gap, but Ryougi will land outside of the corner.
You can still connect a crossup 2C if you walk slightly into the corner first.
However this opens up new possibilities in the corner.
For example: 2C tk.236B 5BB 214A into 623B or 236C both connect going into the corner.
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So I've been busy with midterms lately but, here's one more thing I found:
In the corner, 214A doesn't connect the same way anymore.
214A will wall slam and leave a corner gap, but Ryougi will land outside of the corner.
You can still connect a crossup 2C if you walk slightly into the corner first.
However this opens up new possibilities in the corner.
For example: 2C tk.236B 5BB 214A into 623B or 236C both connect going into the corner.
That's interesting, 214A probably doesn't have as much horizontal movement as it used to. There's always been plenty of time after 214A before you needed to input 2C so all this really does is open up combo possibilities.
By my guess all the combos we have will still be valid, but the setups afterwards will be different. Whatever ending in 623B 236C would put us out of the corner now if I'm correct on the spacing. That would put us at ideal range for IAD pressure and we could change back to the usual setup by just ending on 236C.
Is this for all moons?
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Yea this is for all moons, but 214A still has the same horizontal movement.
For example the H-moon 6AAA 214A combo still has full screen carry.
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Yea this is for all moons, but 214A still has the same horizontal movement.
For example the H-moon 6AAA 214A combo still has full screen carry.
Not quite what I meant. I'm thinking that 214A might move you forward less. If that isn't what's going on maybe they added a collision box or something.
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16131520
That combo at 7:05 made me wet my pants.
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Lol, Namiyan's C-Ryougi is amusing. 421b 22c 623b aircombo looks epic but is completely impractical.
More importantly, it seems 421b/a is EX cancelable now.
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it wasn't a cancel, the move ended...
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it wasn't a cancel, the move ended...
It had to be a cancel, 421b/a doesn't end until you hit the ground. The only other possibility is for it to be a IAD22c which, while possible, I doubt is what happened.
In order to do it with that timing with an IAD you'd have to do something along the lines of 421b45722c. And if that's what happened I'd expect to see the airdash.
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it wasn't a cancel, the move ended...
It had to be a cancel, 421b/a doesn't end until you hit the ground. The only other possibility is for it to be a IAD22c which, while possible, I doubt is what happened.
In order to do it with that timing with an IAD you'd have to do something along the lines of 421b45722c. And if that's what happened I'd expect to see the airdash.
I think this is what happened too. Should have been an EX cancel.
Also, that awesome combo he did caused less damage than a simple cancel to j236C.
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Yeah, it's really impractical. However, it means we can do double overheads off of the command crossup without IADs.
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You know, you can even tk it... Since the move IS jump cancellable so you can TK the EX moves afterwards anyway.
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You know, you can even tk it... Since the move IS jump cancellable so you can TK the EX moves afterwards anyway.
True, that is possible. I'd have to look at it again to make sure it is the jump cancelable one.
Edit: Took another look. It couldn't have been a jump cancel. Even if he did use 421b he missed the window for the jump cancel at 5:29 and canceled when falling.
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Just for the sake of knowing things, after 236a 236a 236c, can you EX Cancel 421c? I know 214c works now but I'm just curious.
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421C you can cancel with anything.
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Just for the sake of knowing things, after 236a 236a 236c, can you EX Cancel 421c? I know 214c works now but I'm just curious.
If you can cancel into 214c you can cancel into 421c. The only issue is that doing it at 236a236a236c range will probably whiff.
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Probably not most consistent Ryougi player I've seen, but he pulls off some combos I haven't seen before (and then drops them before finishing).
Player is Nakabosu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3BVOBt1-ug
Somewhere in there he does a version of the Rekka loop in F and an interesting knife pickup combo in H.
Edit:
It seems Fuusui is using H-Ryougi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlAYiSAvAE
Judging by what I saw on that vid, 214a no longer crosses up in the corner because they added a collision box to it so you no longer go through their sprite.
Also, it looks like j.22c is untechable now. At least in H.
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Any way for F-Ryougi to gain damage through meter now?
Currently 5B 2B 5C 236BB236B 2B 5C JB JC jc JB JC 236B
and 5B 2B 5C 236BB236B 2B 5C 214C 2B 5C JB JC jc JB JC 236B
do exactly the same damage.
As well as 5B 2B 5C 3C 22A 2B 5C JB JC jc JB JC 236B
and 5B 2B 5C 3C 22A 2B 5C 214C 2B 5C JB JC jc JB JC 236B do exactly the same damage.
Anything to do with meter except sit in MAX and end with 236AA214A x Arc Drive auto-lines? Not that it isn't silly and awesome.
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214C never really adds damage. I don't really see why JP keeps using it other than for flashiness. What about ending with 236C instead? 236C has better prorate than 214C
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Anything to do with meter except sit in MAX and end with 236AA214A x Arc Drive auto-lines? Not that it isn't silly and awesome.
214c is air unblockable and easy to hitconfirm from, using IH you can get a triple overhead off of 214b, or you could try to learn that silly double 22c combo.
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214C never really adds damage. I don't really see why JP keeps using it other than for flashiness. What about ending with 236C instead? 236C has better prorate than 214C
Nobody is dumb enough to tech a 236C ender anymore, sadly.
(PS2) If you're at a (good) range where the final rekka launch won't hit, then the 3C into 22A doesn't string against most of the cast anyway. You have to 214C.
Then there's ranges where even a 2B wouldn't hit- definitely need to 214C there too.
I fucking hate 214C. Prorates so hard you may as well do a ground string and get dat sandoori.
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Yeah, I guess 214C is to link in combos that would be impossible to link with anything else.
What about replacing any tk2369B with tk2369C?
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Would it be possible to relaunch with 236A 236A 236B then? =o
Nope, no mashable A moves for getting them high enough off the ground to get rekkas connecting, and 236A won't connect OTG by itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uts747QTXO0&t=28s
Relevant conversation from earlier: "Why is leo going into 421A after BE5C?" "BE5C followed into 214A 2B 5C is an automatically perfected timed tech punish off the unblockable from behind, but the frame buffer is silly. It's not a fancy 421A cancel or anything."
Even in current code. Automatic easy mode.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFkNRbxn7zI
A bit more of Ieda's Ryougi. He looks a bit out of practice, but he's still pulling all sorts of crazy.
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214A change is killing me. Character specific whether or not you cross under with 2C or not... This is making corner combos extremely annoying.
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You can hold forward after the 214A and then 2C, then it will cross under (not sure if it's still chara specific).
Also is it just me or is her backdash shorter?
As for H/F-moon, it seems like j.C has a weaker downward hitbox now.
For example you can't do jump airdash j.CB anymore with H-moon.
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You can hold forward after the 214A and then 2C, then it will cross under (not sure if it's still chara specific).
Also is it just me or is her backdash shorter?
As for H/F-moon, it seems like j.C has a weaker downward hitbox now.
For example you can't do jump airdash j.CB anymore with H-moon.
I have a frame viewer for 1.07
Here is H j.C.
(http://i.imgur.com/3fc7S.png)
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Ow the nerfs, they hurt. If j.B is still a bad jump-in, H/F-Ryougi's air-to-ground just became garbage.
Also do want frame viewer.
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i mad
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Also 2C hitbox didn't change in 1.07, something with how it works did though, I'm thinking it's slower?
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So anybody here want to make threads for Ryougi's H and F forms? I'm curious in how those forms work.
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Hitbox comparison shots, these are the only ones I've found that have changed for fryougi, (left is ps2):
http://ffauploads.com/2a.PNG
http://ffauploads.com/2b.PNG
http://ffauploads.com/jA.PNG
http://ffauploads.com/jB.PNG
http://ffauploads.com/jC.PNG
j.C and j.B got the biggest nerfs, gotta work your air game around those.
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Yeah, we kind of know about the air nerfs. Thanks for posting comparison screenshots though.
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Any reason why there's no F-Ryougi thread? I'm curious to see what her bnb's, etc. look like now
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Most of us don't play F. But we should probably make one.
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Has there been any big change from PS2 to CC for Fryougurt? Only thing I can tell is that j.B is not god tier anymore, 4C isn't nearly instant anymore, and you can super cancel the third C rekka. I've been doing 5B2B5C236A236B236C214Cj.B(whiff)5Cj.BCj.BC mid screen when I'm too far for rekka launcher to connect.
EDIT: I guess you can combo rekka ender A and B into 236C if you want, but that's really a system change.