Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Actress Again => Shiki Ryougi => : Dipstick August 19, 2009, 08:21:06 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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I know it's bad form to start a strategy thread without any actual content, but I just locked the only thread in this forum so I figured it would be appropriate to create a couple so people could actually discuss things.
This thread is intended for random questions about playing Full-style Shiki Ryougi that one may have, but do not warrant an actual thread. For random discussion about Crescent and Half moon versions of her, please see the appropriate threads. (Crescent-Moon Ryougi thread (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/shiki-ryougi/c-ryougi-thoughts-without-a-thread/) and Half-Moon Ryougi thread (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/shiki-ryougi/h-ryougi-thoughts-without-a-thread/)) If you have a more in-depth question, please start a new thread.
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I might as well post some semi-unorganized thoughts here. I really don't wanna write another guide, that kouma one for mbac was a lot of work -_-
F-Ryougi:
-has good abare, because she can cover a lot of area with her normals, and every single one is jump cancellable, as well as 22a, 22c, and 214c being great combo tools. 236b is also quite good when you're close enough for the launcher to connect afterwards.
-has some fuckin RANGE. abuse it like hell.
-has kind of a shitty dash for closer ranges. be careful with it, if you aren't far enough away from them and you dash, you'll be in their face during an uncancellable portion just asking to be eaten up
-has a really long range unblockable. when against crouching people not named white len, nero, or wara, the range gets reduced to about 1/3 screen which is still good for an unblockable of it's speed.
-needs to be smart on pressure. none of her normals are jump cancellable on block, so your main concern is finding a way to make your current blockstring safe. thankfully her range can almost do this on it's own, but with her crappy dash, you're gonna want to get back in and start pressure again as soon as possible. one way to do this is smart rekkaing combined with staggering (the rekkas themselves more than her normals). another way is slide -> 22a/b.
-does not have much for oki/mixup. 4c is a good overhead although you do need to be close and the priority is really meh, and you also need your knife to combo afterwards. someone who knows what's up won't get hit by rekka overhead since there are no low hits on the second hit to mix it up with. one solid way is a deep j.C, then mixup between land 2a -> combo and j.236b -> land 5ab aircombo. if j.236b is blocked, amazingly enough it's actually pretty safe when done that deep. either mixup option should land you 4-5k which is pretty good. deep j.C can either be done meaty off of air/throw or something, or maybe you can get your opponent to respect you enough that you can get in a free IAD. don't count on that too much though, because ryougi's air-to-ground isn't so hot.
-needs to worry about her knife because it's good. i don't know of any combos that involve safe situations where you can pick up the knife, but facing the corner, throwing the knife usually ends up it landing around half a screen away from the corner. the best way to deal with this problem is to use your knife wisely in the first place.
-shouldn't forget about her parries, and with those should never ex-shield unless going for a last arc. and please memorize which one does what.
-should work on keeping her opponent in the corner, where she rapes.
-should be careful about crouchers when poking with 5c and especially 5b.
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eww double post. more/corrected thoughts after play at NWM:
-poke people respecting your offense with 2b. otherwise use 5b when they're jumpy to get them to sit in place.
-that fuzzy doesn't work because you can block that j.236b low. as a result, fryougi doesn't have any character specific mixups (might have neutral jump crossup shenanigans and shit still). in other words no mixup. but this is okay because....
-her pressure is actually way good. she does a shitload of guard bar damage from a nicely safe distance so unlike traditional pressure games the opponent is literally forced to act at some point. this is kind of? where a mixup takes place, what they'll do to escape that guard crush and 50%.
-a lot of her game revolves around the throwing knife. but this is okay because it's actually much easier to get than you'd think despite being unsafe, ESPECIALLY if you are comboing random CHs and j.Bs into j.236b. also if you wanna be a fuckin slick shooter you can cancel into pick-up-my-knife mid blockstring. they may or may not try to take back momentum but if they don't then fuck, give them more blockstring and use the knife for more insane pressure and more blockstring. guard bar damage up the ass.
-ex guarding is a great solution to her then right? stagger your hits on block. there is little necessity for her blockstrings to be airtight (although they most certainly can be which is awesome) because they have so much range that the opponent can't really do much about them in the first place.
-a defender's defensive options when the pressure of the guard bar comes are as follows:
--out prioritize you, probably with an invincible EX or something ~~ going to need a raw bait and punish
--jump ~~ 5b (and 5c at times) catch jumpers nicely, as well as j.B if needed
--shield bunker ~~ depends on bunker but throwing your knife is a great solution if you smell one or want to react to one
--shield ~~ this could very well punish itself. against half moon, depends on their auto-counter. against others, they are gonna have to use their longest range moves to do anything, and regular shield limits them to special moves. ex shielding properly staggered pokes in a blockstring is hard. and if anyone misses said shield and you miss said punish, go for blockstring and guard break their ass.
--dodge ~~ who the fuck cares. chances are they aren't going to be at an advantage with the range you're at. continue as you were. okay, rolls might be an issue. working out that kink still.
-probably more but i'm about to fall asleep
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i've also been playing f-ryougi all weekend, only against a couple of other EU players so i''m probably at a lower level but i'll throw in some thoughts.
~crappy ground dash doesn't really mean anything. i find myself moving around by IAD exclusively. sometimes from fullscreen, ground dash into 2C 3C can be useful, but the majority of the time you just want to spam IAD j.B to make yourself a gigantic fast-moving offensive hitbox.
~like s-blade said, no mixups, but her guard dmg is disgusting. 2C 3C 236B 236(B) 236A will take off 1/3rd of crescent guard bar. if they're getting mash-happy when you charge, change to half-charge. if they have a good move for interrupting rekkas, either make them airtight or introduce very small gaps, depending on what kind of reversal we're talking about. another option is to do 236A 214A rekka, with no delay, to beat all low pokes and almost all slow pokes
~unlike s-blade i never use the throwing knife, mostly because i keep forgetting i have it. eu scrub melty represent
~ryougi was literally made for american reset. you can end combo in airthrow or j.236, or you can simply end it in fucking j.C, land, neutral superjump and keep hounding them in the air. i'm fairly sure noone in the cast can deal with ryougi j.C when she's below them, and i very doubt anyone has a good way of dealing with her j.B in horizontal terms
~236C is atrociously fast, and can punish a lot of f-moon string enders that leave people at very slight frame advantage. you can also use it as a reversal, but it has no i-frames, so make sure you know what you're doing. experiment with it, because it punishes so much. block a satsuki 22b? help yourself to free damage! some fag jumping in on you? free damage! sick of nero and his doing EX crows and then sealing your movement with some gay move? free damage! this move is ridiculously good and you can afford to spam it just for the purpose of experimenting, since it's almost totally safe on block. the only thing they can do is bunker the last hit. they absolutely cannot punish you with any kind of regular combo. no bunker cancels in this game. so whenever you see something that looks like slight disadvantage on block, throw out 236C and just find out for yourself. the worst that could happen is you'll eat a bunker
~TKing is a lot easier in this game, and you might find j.236 works well for beating shit out. if you got some fag spamming low pokes and your 214 goes over him, try giving him a taste of TK j.236
~back to combo enders, i personally never end my combo in airthrow, partly because its a sucky airthrow, and partly because ryougi really cant do much from it even if it didn't suck. since i play ryougi by constantly running the fuck away and trolling people with j.B, j.C, and 236C, i end all my aircombos in j.236B, and then charge meter until they get near me
~speaking of meter, ryougi has a lot of choices on how to use her meter. j.236C is not worth it after a full combo, but if you landed a random abare j.B j.C j.B j.C and do 236C, you can get an extra 1k or so, and you will land j.B in air-to-air a LOT. 236C is good for practically anything except combos. 214c is probably good idk i dont use it. same for 22c. but, if you're playing F, you need to choose between using these awesome EXs, or using her fucking awesome BHAD, because her arc drives are fucking amazing. here imma put them in a seperate section
~ARC DRIVE: okay, here is the best way to think of her arc drive: it's a command throw with fucking gigantic range and more startup. once the flash hits and the lines appear, they can't do anything. it's 0f after flash, or maybe i should say they get hit during EX flash? either way, if they're in a throwable state when the arc drive flash happens, and they're in range, that is guaranteed damage. absolutely guaranteed. the BHAD is a LOT faster. I told you to think of it as a throw, so do some throw setups. C and H can do some whiff cancel shit to tick into it, but F has to be more creative. Here's an example, if you've been doing a lot of 2C 3C into rekkas, try doing 2C 3C, let it recover, then BHAD. or do 2 rekkas, stop, then BHAD. pretty much any setup that you would use to setup a throw, will also work for setting up this. the regular AD's longer startup makes it much harder to use, but you can do some fucking amazingly gay shit like 5A tick into AD. If you do this then your opponent will probably pick up his stick and lodge it into your skull so watch out!
~ properly spaced, j.B will beat warui ne clean in air-to-air. this is important since f-nanaya seems to be the most popular char for scrubs atm. if you have very good react speed, 5B can beat warui ne from the ground, but you need to do that shit EARLY, son. other options include 236C, but it needs careful timing. the aa parry might beat it, who knows
~havent messed around with the parries at all. i guess they're okay but they'll take a lot of skill and experience to use properly. considering f ryougi has no "real" reversal, and can't rely on heat activation, being good with the parries will probably become a requirement to play a good f ryougi.
also i'll be uploading MATCH VIDEOS later so watch this space, my f-ryougi is really bad but at least you'll get an idea of some of the concepts behind her basic play
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fuck f ryougi aerials
it's like playing against nero and warc rolled into one and they don't have a hitbox on the fucking attacks.
~ properly spaced, j.B will beat warui ne clean in air-to-air. this is important since f-nanaya seems to be the most popular char for scrubs atm. if you have very good react speed, 5B can beat warui ne from the ground, but you need to do that shit EARLY, son. other options include 236C, but it needs careful timing. the aa parry might beat it, who knows
anything beats warui ne air to air if properly spaced tbh. It's just awkward to space it properly since the move can angle itself so weirdly. If you're below it it's nearly impossible to beat it out but anything horizontal will probably trade at worst.
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*clapclapclap* thank you sabator for snatching up everything i noticed yesterday but forgot about because i was tired.
~yeah i noticed the crappy ground dash was actually good but it just had a weird can'tdoshit window that i am personally not used to yet. but forward dash instant backdash seems like it's fast enough to bait pokes which you can then punish with stupidrange
~nice. 214a rekka sometimes wins sometimes loses totally depending on timing its kinda sketchy sometimes but whatever. 22a 2b in particular though is airtight and that's what starts your second groundstring
~i was doing a fair bit of american reset myself and it does indeed work especially with the new movement options for people on the ground although i'm not sure how usable it is in higher play lol
~i personally haven't fooled around with 236c other than misinputs (lol FUCK YOU BUFFER) but it's nice that it's safe. also more guardbar damage ouch. although this is a little less safe than just regular blockstring. i find that for those easy punishes, 214c works just as well, esp when adding some hits in. also because you go into aircombo your combo gives you options on the ender and all that shit
~yeah, also j.236b is way safe when done that low so.....no fuzzy but another high priority move, sure i'll take it
~all my random air combos i end in j.236b. i also end j.236b if i have a knife sitting out so i can go get it (not really guaranteed safe 100% of the time). in the corners i airthrow just...because. lol, i want them staying in the corner. even though ryougi doesn't really "get anything" off of it, she's not totally neutral and she's at a good range so....meaty 2b whatever
~i noticed this as well with how many times i hit max. i noticed 22c (over 22a) really only has one use, which is off of 4c midscreen (not going to happen often). it's not that it's a bad combo move or anything but it seems like she has better shit, particularly 214c and like you said ending those combos in j.236c which is something i never thought of but will definitely do in the future. also i last arced someone yesterday lols damage
~there are six parries but you only need to know two, 623a for high and 623b for low, the rest do things that give you less possibility for comboing. however 623a/b don't exactly give you forever to combo off of. anyway, ryougi can get 3-4k off of these parries which is much better than 2-3k off of an ex shield while risking i-missed-a-shield-rape-me-please properties. also the parry window is kinda big compared to ex shield. imo very important to remember and use these.
~ 2ab5c3c 22a 2b5c3c 236b 236/214b 2/3 guard bar right there. didn't try 236c ender instead of double rekka. airtight.
~ lastly, mixing in random 5[c]s in blockstrings will do you wonders. but not like a regular unblockable where you might use it or threaten to use it twice a round. shit is amazing, use it a lot. like 1.5k-2k damage too and you can special cancel it into something useful (whiff rekka first hit, go into overhead? pick up knife?)
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~ 2ab5c3c 22a 2b5c3c 236b 236/214b 2/3 guard bar right there. didn't try 236c ender instead of double rekka. airtight.
236c is garbage guard dmg, dont use it for anything except reversals imo
i spoke to you on irc so i know that neither of us can play MBAA for a while, but i really want to test out throwing an instant heat on the end of that and going into it 1 more time, that should be a guaranteed guard crush. don't forget you can charge the middle rekka hit for a LOT more guard bar dmg. if you're in MAX it should be fairly easy to guard crush with one airtight string, which is yet another amazingly good use for ryougi's meter
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Tested this
jc 2A 2B 5C 3C 22A 2A 2B 5C 3C 236A 236[A] 214A instant-heat 2A 2B 5C 3C 236A 236[A] 236A
Breaks C/F. Cannot break H, but comes very close.
you can guardbreak any moon if they have whiffed a shield/airdodge once with like half that string
I think there's some kind of proration on guard damage or something if the opponent is simply just blocking. Either that or everybody's guard bar gets REALLY FUCKING THICK at the end
In other news you can end a rekka with 236c to do a C ryougi 623 esque attack that launches and can be charged to be unblockable
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i played alot of f ryougi as well this weekend so my few thoughts which isn't a lot since you guys covered most of it.
1.knife use, i used it somewhat sparely but anytime i saw someone do a move from about midscreen they got a 22c in the gut, and the hit stun was so much that i had enough time to iad c, combo even midscreen. this fucked up akiha trying to set up shit cause soon as i saw her try to flame tongue 22c stabbed that bitch and she was stuck floating in mid air. shit is seriously like a blazblue guard crush.
2.5b is gdlk but we knew that, a lot of my matches were about sitting around 5b range trying to catch jumpers, if they stopped jumping 5b,2b and look for mix ups.
3.her counter is dope but fast as shit so kinda hard to react to imo.
4.her shield counter is nice but due to her shitty shield range i stuck to using it against jump ins.
5.qcb c, i fucking love it, gives me a combo at max range 5b
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Here are a few ways to actually get oki with F-Ryougi, without sacrificing damage:
midscreen:
(5A/2A) 5B 2B 5C 3C 22A 2C slight delay 3C 236B 236B 236A (input as 214A), requires knife
(5A/2A) 5B 2B 5C 236B x3 2B 5C 214C whiff jB land 2C, 100% meter
corner:
(5A/2A) 5B 2B 5C 3C TK j236B delay 5A 5C 214C whiff jB land 2C 3C 236B 236B 236A, 100% meter
if too far/crouching for the first 5C to hit, replace with 2C
if too high for the second 5C, replace with 5B
also works starting from midstage if you replace 5A 5C with just 5B (raannnge)
the corner combo can be extended with a knife, by inserting: 22A 2C 3C before the TK j236B, for ~500 more damage
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I really like F-Ryougi because of all the range she has. She has good air-to-air normals, but what exactly is she supposed to use for air-to-ground? None of her moves seem to really hit that far below her. And the other day C-Wara was giving me a real headache with his 2B whenever I was jumping around (which was a lot). How to deal with this? j.236?
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j236 is pretty safe on block and hits everywhere. it's kind of hard for wara to close in properly to do a 2b anti air if you're TURTLING with her, trying to rushdown or play offensively is a bad idea. Can also try using j22 I guess. I'll admit when I played Sabator's Fryougi I was mostly focused on seeing if it was possible for wara to go air to air with her at all but it was a definite struggle. Next time we play I guess we'll see how it goes on that.
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So I noticed. F-Ryougi seems to be a character that is heavily reliant on footsies rather than rushing down. And yeah, I was beating the other guy out in the air more often than not so I guess that's why he decided to stick to the ground. If he's fishing for that 2B I suppose blocking it is the next best option after j.236X because it kept hitting me out of the air.
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I noticed a 44/66/22 A/B/C in her command list, but it doesn't seem to work on the ground or in the air.
Any idea how use it or what it does?
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When you tech in the air, you can do that input to do a wakeup esque move, except in the air. They look like her 236 series.
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some random tactics/q&a that i'm thinking up here
-approach your opponent air-to-ground with dash/airdash as little as possible
--midscreen game, no momentum anywhere, how do you force the opponent to come at you? charge meter
---why is this a threat? IH makes fryougi very strong because she can really force guard breaks on people
---214b (hits crouchers) IH is a pretty decent approach
--i got my opponent to approach me instead. now what?
---(ground) poke into combo or blockstring, either way you are using their (risky) approach to get momentum, advantage, and a lot more to work with
---opponent is coming at me with projectile cover or some otherwise unpokable or safe approach.
----jump. enter the air because fryougi can do a lot more here defensively. however if they came from the ground, you're gonna have to try to maneuver yourself away because poking air-to-ground isn't really an option. it might very well be worth it to use j.22a/b here if it gets you away from them.
-what do i do with my meter?
--if not for random poke -> 214c -> combo, save it for blood heat and IH. her AD and BHAD are quite excellent, her LA is really good even without the glitch, and IH can lead into guard break.
-when do i air/throw?
--try not to. being that close means you're not utilizing her range and you also made a big risk by getting that close, and if they're blocking a lot, it's better to go for the guard break because one throw does damage which will reset the guard meter into filling back up and stuff.
-i'm starting a blockstring. what exactly should i be doing here?
--stagger to prevent EX guard
--mix in a 5[c] if you choose
--end blockstring with picking up your knife if possible, can be done easily with slide and using 2c over 5c
--if you go into rekkas, end at 2nd hit, or with the low kick if you want to be at a safer range for losing momentum
--watch out for bunkers, punish accordingly and don't go on autopilot/musclememory
--if you smell jumpers, 5c over 2c.
--hitconfirm and combo and profit.
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what to do with your meter = heat/blood heat and arc drive. i personally prefer blood heat because of the last arc scare, but her arc drive is gdlk. its pretty much a command grab with crazy range, and i suspect though i haven't tested it grabs hit boxes. however if they're within range after the arc drive flashes the lines appear and you're already cut.
also forgot, 22c through stuff, like motoh plays vakiha when hes trying to set up pits and other stuff thats not on oki, 22c, iad c, combo
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFSp3eBA4Ag here's some random scrub shit
http://i25.tinypic.com/6j24u8.jpg also here is the max range of her AD
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F-Ryougi 2A hits mid.
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F-Ryougi 2A hits mid.
welp
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more experimentation, some things to note, probably more useful than all the other stuff:
-your pokes are absolute. anything shielded can be cancelled to parry on reaction, which especially hurts h-moon since there's not even any high/low guessing involved. in addition, toy around in training mode with blocking and then shield bunker. the shield bunkers do hit you, but as long as you stagger your hits, there's isn't much to worry about as it's kind of hard to time correctly, and if you do get bunkered, so what, very little damage and the round is reset, a situation that f-ryougi does well in.
-according to sabator, dodging doesn't work very well at all versus rekkas. however, DPs and heats and other reversals do, so be careful. 236[ b ] is +++frames, use it.
-auto spark means free arc drive. yep, you heard me. get from 1/3 to 1/2 screen away (enough to avoid the hit from the spark) and 5[c]. when it hits, delay slightly (more if you caught them in the air), and then arc drive. it's unescapable, as the arc drive will catch even people starting to jump up (you can see this sometimes as they suddenly jump up then get smacked down and hit by the arc drive). if they shield you, as said above, cancel to parry and punish their auto-counter. they can't really do anything about this trap unless they stuff your 5[c] with an ex or something, because the response is automatic. pretty funny stuff. oops, allguard wasn't on.
-a good explanation of how an effective ryougi can be played would be dhalsim on a smaller scale. they're in the corner, you're half a screen away, out of range, and if they try and dash in, your poke will stuff them, and if they jump, you need to be hot with 5b and j.B. this goes well with airthrow enders in the corner. if they insist on you coming to them, charge your meter because your arc drive and last arc are scary scary shit, and you can often put them in a 50/50 where they have to guess if you're gonna BHAD or shield for the last arc.
-your other option if they decide to let you come at them, if their character has poor or no reversals, is to just rush them with guard break strings. remember to stagger, and punish any shield attempts.
-last arc hits fucking like everywhere, everyone, even if they're blocking. really useful against people with summons, orbs, etc, and it's fucking 7k dmg.
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trying to avoid a double post here, but yay, sessions.
-you have to be really good with 5B to actually use it, in that the closer they are, the more you have to anticipate with it. neither the speed nor the angle will allow it to be used like 5AA or even most decent AAs. think more along the lines of using MBAC akiha's 5c as AA. kinda hard to explain but with more play you'll understand what i mean.
-hitconfirming is really important on those random hits because fryougi scores a lot of them. random j.B hits should go into complete aircombos every time for 1.5k-ish damage. 5b is a little harder to confirm because if you jc 5b and they are on the ground you've put yourself in a pretty shitty situation where you will most likely get AAed into combo.
-i discovered 236x236x 236[c] today. lol, nice fast unblockable with great range, but plan it out ahead of time, i never ever ever suggest doing 236{c} to try and score a counter hit because on block that shit gets a nice full punish, veryvery painful.
-never end rekka after the first hit, really unsafe and if continuing the string means getting bunkered, then get bunkered. ending the rekka series with 236a, 236b, or 214a as the third hit are all very safe options.
-the nice thing about rekka pressure is that although there isn't a lot of mixup (really just staggering and one unblockable option and a lot of guard damage), the options are very safe, and after they end, you're in a pretty favorable position, barely in range of your good pokes.
-the better thing about continuing pressure by throwing your knife is that you are way way +++frames on it.
-try your hardest not to be directly above your opponent, especially if he's on the ground. you will lose to AA. for the fuck of it, if you do end up in that situation, you have a better chance landing and throwing their AA shield guess than beating any move that comes out.
-214a and b are great once you condition your opponent to them. 214b is an overhead and hits crouchers and can score CH + combo, and 214a is a crossup versus standing opponents once they're conditioned to block the overhead. both of these are also not as horribly unsafe on block as you'd expect.
-remember to 5[c] your opponent when they're getting patient, and when they become impatient, hit them with your long range pokes. who gives a shit if it gets shielded, parry-cancel that shit, either you'll get 4k from parrying (623a/b) and comboing or you'll get however many 5[c]s plus combos from them being impatient and you counterpoking.
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Hey, guys what do you do with max gauge? I know there are a lot of possibilities like IH and other stuff. But, I was wondering how you guys felt.
Also, since F-Ryogi has 6 parries... Should we be blatantly throwing them out more or use as bait. I know it sounds silly. But there has to be a reason for so many parries. I understood 3, but 6 was kinda ridiculous. Even though some gives you some distance away from your opponent.
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Six parries? Aren't her B and C versions essentially the same? From what I remember 623 lasted longer, while 421 had less recovery on whiff.
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I apologize for taking so long to respond back. Well the parries are not the same and have different properties. The 623 a(high)/b(low) sets you up for more ground based combos usually starting with b. 623 c(high) sets you up for ground to air state combo of your choosing or a setup. 421 a(high)/b(low) is more of an knock down. She just throws them like trash to ground behind her. I think you can't hit them till they hit the ground as well. But,if you're in the corner it's a great a great utensil to switch things around. 421 c(low) acts like the 623 version but, low.
Also, 421 series cannot cancel a move unlike the 623 series.
421 c seems to take the same amount of time as the 623 series.
I guess talking it out helped me realized it merits.
Also, I figured some easy tech punishes and O.T.G.... But, this place really seems to be dead most of the time.
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It's cool, you don't need to apologize. I stopped playing full quite some time ago, so I'm a bit rusty on all her properties. I'll give her a look tonight as free time builds.
In general though, parries don't really serve a useful function outside of combos. I think there was a vid where her parries would grab the character mid-string and toss them to the side, so maybe you can use that as an alternative. Otherwise I'd stick to maintaining a zoning game and use shield / shield bunkering for the defensive side.
As for meter management and instant heat uses: I noticed with 236C that if you land it the opponent can air tech it, however if they tech too early they're in perfect range for 5B > air combo. Food for thought. Other than that, I would just save it for her BHAD and regaining health, etc.
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Oh, I used to use that too. But, now I use 214 a/b to punish air techs after that. Since it's unblockable(in the air) and covers most techs besides forward and no tech. There are some weakness to it like reaction time and etc. So I usually buffer it after the move. So it's simpler to do. (Also you can combo off of it with different variations or build gauge. Since it wall slams the opponent)
Here is my main O.T.G.(Off the Ground) I've been using so far it uses gauge though.
Let's see
It's real simple
2a>2b>236c
After that tech punish or whatever the situation causes for. You can easily punish forward tech with an backward jump b. So I don't worry about Forward tech too much. It's just my reaction that fails on me.
I'm still trying to figure out more uses for 214 a/b series in combos or situations and how to apply parries to battle. Since like you said I could shield. I just want to know when to use which in a battle situation. Because there has to be a reason for the parries. It's probably because of her slow start up normals maybe. But, when I do use parries(accident most of the time). My opponents usually wait or back off. While some may just attack right after it finishes. I think it really depends on them knowing what it does or not.
Also, about that video, I think it might help us disrespect Aoko's main orb setups if she is too close in. But it's obvious to not use it against some multi-hit moves. Unless it stops the move immediately when she tosses them or the invincibility out lasts the move and she throws them/it. Also from what S-Blade said not all moves can be parried.. I haven't tested which moves aren't so far though. But, I think parries are slow on wake up at least the 623 series if I'm wrong please tell me. But, I never attempted 421 a/b on wakeup. I'll try that out the next time I get the chance.
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You should probably save your meter instead of using it for that OTG (unless it'll kill them). Burst/IH/Arc drive are significantly more useful.
As for the parries, S-Blade mentioned earlier in this thread that you can use them to punish H-moon shield counters (on reaction).
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You should probably save your meter instead of using it for that OTG (unless it'll kill them). Burst/IH/Arc drive are significantly more useful.
As for the parries, S-Blade mentioned earlier in this thread that you can use them to punish H-moon shield counters (on reaction).
Thank you, Nandeyanen I completely forgot that he said. Thanks for the help with that and S-Blade too. I'll defiantly try parrying bunkers and auto shield counters.
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None of the parries are instant.
However they WILL go through some multi-hit moves. Try parrying Warc's 63214C :)
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Thank you, MissedFRC. That saved me some time. So, I guess no parries after knockdown maybe.
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No problem, glad I could help ya :toot:
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Don't know if it's already stated, but rekka combo doesn't work off counter, have to use 2a 2b 2c 3c 22c jbc jbc moon slash (bc her airthrow is tragic)
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Don't know if it's already stated, but rekka combo doesn't work off counter, have to use 2a 2b 2c 3c 22c jbc jbc moon slash (bc her airthrow is tragic)
To be exact by counter.. Do you mean parry or just 236 d after shield?
Because I believe you can do rekka combo off of parry or counter. Maybe, except the one that knocks them down.
For parry I believe you do (Soon as possible or the launcher will miss) 5b>5c>236b>236 a/b> 236 b> 2b >5c or 2a> 5c> jb>Jc>jb>jc Decision time > air throw or eclipse moon. (Inspired by S-Blade's setup.)
Also, MissedFRC I was able to test that against Warc. Thanks a lot for the tip.
I wanted to found out if this was a legit mixup. Okay so far it works like this
(5a) 5b>2b>2c>3c>236b(slight delay while moving forward depending on character(not always))>236 b (can be charged for more damage)
If done right Ryougi will be on the other side as they wake up. To stay on the same side use 236a or just do it fast.
Edit:
Also, some weird things I'm testing.. Is that launcher rekka can hit them up if you can get the second part of the rekka to miss while they are juggled in the air. The timing is awkward , but if I figure out how to do it more consistent I'll post it up.
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Don't know if it's already stated, but rekka combo doesn't work off counter, have to use 2a 2b 2c 3c 22c jbc jbc moon slash (bc her airthrow is tragic)
To be exact by counter.. Do you mean parry or just 236 d after shield?
Because I believe you can do rekka combo off of parry or counter. Maybe, except the one that knocks them down.
For parry I believe you do (Soon as possible or the launcher will miss) 5b>5c>236b>236 a/b> 236 b> 2b >5c or 2a> 5c> jb>Jc>jb>jc Decision time > air throw or eclipse moon.
Also, MissedFRC I was able to test that against Warc. Thanks a lot for the tip.
I wanted to found out if this was a legit mixup. Okay so far it works like this
(5a) 5b>2b>2c>3c>236b(slight delay while moving forward depending on character(not always))>236 b (can be charged for more damage)
If done right Ryougi will be on the other side as they wake up. To stay on the same side use 236a or just do it fast.
Edit:
Also, some weird things I'm testing.. Is that launcher rekka can hit them up if you can get the second part of the rekka to miss while they are juggled in the air. The timing is awkward , but if I figure out how to do it more consistent I'll post it up.
Parry is 623 series? I tried it, doesn't work, but all I do is b series rekkas, I'll try your method and post my results.
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Parry is 623 series? I tried it, doesn't work, but all I do is b series rekkas, I'll try your method and post my results.
Yeah, Parry is 623x series (and 421 x series). I'm pretty sure the combo I posted above is solid. I was able to test it myself earlier on to make sure. Unless we are referring to a different type of subject.
Also, in the command list it says there is a 4th iteration of Rekka does anyone know what it is?
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Parry is 623 series? I tried it, doesn't work, but all I do is b series rekkas, I'll try your method and post my results.
Yeah, Parry is 623x (and 421 x). I'm pretty sure the combo I posted above is solid. I was able to test it myself earlier on to make sure. Unless we are referring to a different type of subject.
Also, in the command list it says there is a 4th iteration of Rekka does anyone know what it is?
That's 214A_B, the overhead.
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That's 214A_B, the overhead.
Thank you, I wasn't quite sure if there might be something new. Thanks for clearing things up.
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Found a few cool IH combos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT15lmSPEdA
You can end the second one with rekkas if your meter runs out.
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Found a few cool IH combos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT15lmSPEdA
You can end the second one with rekkas if your meter runs out.
Thanks Shlowpoke for the new combos. I'm sure this will come in handy for uses to do with the complete gauge along with guard crash IH. I'm sure this will help push Ryougi forward :D.
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TBH I'd rather just save her MAX for Blood Heat and go for her BHAD and do a combo that does like 1k less anyway since the BHAD is what makes her so good IMO.
I'm finding I just zone the crap out of people with her and do safe / frame advantage block strings, frustrate them with unblockables and generally make them scared to do ANYTHING. Seems like the goal with her is to just stay away but stay annoying. You can also fuck with really defensive people just by charging as her with blood heat means defense is over. It'll even force turtley ries to start rushing you down or Nero to stop zoning you and try to move in.
Speaking of Nero... she kinda rapes him. He really just can't summon against her or she can knife him into full screen run up 2A 5B air combo.
I haven't really ran into any problems with her yet. I think she's a great character.
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Hmm best low-effort Arc Drive setup I discovered would be after her B rekkas, since it's not techable. Valid good damage.
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I know this is kind of a lot to ask, but could anyone with frame display post the startup and active frames for all of F-Ryougi's different counters? I was trying to use her 623 series during blockstrings to punish disrespect, but the active frames seemed much shorter than they look.
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I know this is kind of a lot to ask, but could anyone with frame display post the startup and active frames for all of F-Ryougi's different counters? I was trying to use her 623 series during blockstrings to punish disrespect, but the active frames seemed much shorter than they look.
I got your back.
Edit: Rei, got your back.
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623 series all have 4 startup frames (comes out on frame 5) and then lasts until frame 17 so it's 13 active frames
421A/B have 4 startup frames and then last until frame 14 so that's 10 active frames
421C is like the 623 series and has 13 active frames.
I'm not EXACTLY sure because in frameviewer there is an extra hitbox (green though, not attack or clash or w/e) and it's only out for those frames.
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Alright, thanks a bunch.
So basically using a 623 counter only gets you 3 more active frames while giving you a ton more lag.
Lame.
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Just thought of something like this unless someone got to it before me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR2zcFxyamQ&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKBN-hFUNQQ&feature=channel
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would anyone mind writing up a few standard bnb's for f-ryougi?
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Please read the wiki, here they are
http://mbaa.mizuumi.net/index.php/Shiki_Ryougi#Combos_and_Strategies_3
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About the parry matter for the time i´ve been using F-Ryougi (and become my 2nd character and i love her lol) is easy to think of it as a shield but whit a few more frames. i always use the frontal Parrys (623x) since the back ones (421x) are knockdowns (correct me if im wrong here) and here are my thoughs about this move:
623x: i think of it as a replacement of shield since is more dependable in some situations like being guarding in pression but it depends as well the characters you are going Vs cuz my friend use H-Ryougi ( and i hate how good he became whit her) and it was easy to parry as well punishable whit this but whit miyako i had troubles cuz her hit box even whit Len, even though this parry is easy to use as a counter measure.
421x: this one is my favorite cuz it awesome whit aerials and easy to use a combo afterwards no problems here. Hit box maybe a problem in a few cases as well.
conclusion:
Parry is Awesome lol it works whit almost everything: EX, Aerials, Shots, even whit a few ADs like Shiki or Aoko the problems it learning how to use it. It is a good move since F-Ryougi has too many problems like a weak A for example.
a little diference between frontal and back parrys is maybe the frames it both have as a diference but i cant quite remember which one has more frames and which one fewer
PD: of course Shield is still shield and have its uses even though is not very good whit Ryougi -_-.
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Would anyone please tell me what strategy can I use to oppose an F Nanaya when he's teleporting and 236a/b/c like mad :(
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Block. Abuse recovery.
That's what I do.
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Any new vids on F-Ryougi? I seem to fail nico. I appreciate it.
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I haven't seen any new stuff that hasn't been posted on the Meltybread channel.
For reference:
the search you should be doing is 両儀 MBAACC or 式 MBAACC
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Hey guys, with reference to Shlowpoke's C/F-Ryougi combo vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOzQLK6xQhs), I wonder what's the trick to spacing the tk 236b for the 2way mixup after the rekka knockdown (@ ~1:28). I've seen LEO do it as well, but can't for the life of me figure out how to space it properly.
Also, are there any tips to getting down the timing to the 236b 236b 236b 2b 5c relaunch for F-ryougi? I can't get the 2b to connect properly consistently D: Thanks!
EDIT: I noticed that when I do a tk, it always seems to cancel from a superjump (2369b), yet this is not the case in Shlowpoke's (and LEO's) vids. How exactly is the tk 236b input?
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If I'm not mistaken the difference would be in the charging of the second rekka.
Try using 236b236b236b 2a5b first, it's a little easier to connect.
You're input is correct, I think it's just a difference of input buffer timing.
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If I'm not mistaken the difference would be in the charging of the second rekka.
Try using 236b236b236b 2a5b first, it's a little easier to connect.
You're input is correct, I think it's just a difference of input buffer timing.
Hmm i'll try experimenting with charging the second rekka. I'm currently using 2a5c (which forces me to be a little more precise with the timing compared to 2a5b), but the problem is that 2a is sometimes too short if you are far away from your opponent.
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I was suggesting it as a temporary solution. Once you learn the timing for 2a5b then 2b5c becomes easier to do.
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Hey guys, with reference to Shlowpoke's C/F-Ryougi combo vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOzQLK6xQhs), I wonder what's the trick to spacing the tk 236b for the 2way mixup after the rekka knockdown (@ ~1:28). I've seen LEO do it as well, but can't for the life of me figure out how to space it properly.
It's not about the timing of the rekkas, though that may be a possible way to do it. It's been a while since I made the vid, but I think if you do the j.236b slightly later (higher in the jump) you'll go further to the right and cross them up. If it's not that, try angling your jump forward for the TK. (2369b instead of 2368b).
I don't recommend doing this mixup though. It's just flashy. Some characters get up too fast for you to safely attack after landing. I recommend instead playing with rekka knockdown -> dash -> jump straight up and then hold towards -> land+5a/land+2b/airdash back j.b.
Also, are there any tips to getting down the timing to the 236b 236b 236b 2b 5c relaunch for F-ryougi? I can't get the 2b to connect properly consistently D: Thanks!
No. It's really hard. The damage is comparable so I wouldn't even bother trying to do something so impractical in real matches. Just use 2a.
EDIT: I noticed that when I do a tk, it always seems to cancel from a superjump (2369b), yet this is not the case in Shlowpoke's (and LEO's) vids. How exactly is the tk 236b input?
You hold 2 for a second before you do the motion so the game knows you don't want to superjump. Hold it during the previous move.
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Also, are there any tips to getting down the timing to the 236b 236b 236b 2b 5c relaunch for F-ryougi? I can't get the 2b to connect properly consistently D: Thanks!
No. It's really hard. The damage is comparable so I wouldn't even bother trying to do something so impractical in real matches. Just use 2a.
The only real reason to use 2b5c is the increased range. The timing is a little stricter on 2b than 2a.
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Hey guys, with reference to Shlowpoke's C/F-Ryougi combo vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOzQLK6xQhs), I wonder what's the trick to spacing the tk 236b for the 2way mixup after the rekka knockdown (@ ~1:28). I've seen LEO do it as well, but can't for the life of me figure out how to space it properly.
In the vid he does it based on height I think. However, another way to do is based on what version of rekka you use. This is character specific. For example: 236a BE 236a 214a will have you go on one side after the tk whereas 236b BE 236b 214a will have you go to the other side. Another way to do it is input 236987412369A after the last rekka and you won't get superjump tk 236b which changes which side you will land on. Of course, if they just listen to see if you do superjump or not, they can block it 100% if that's how you're doing it but most people don't.
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No. It's really hard. The damage is comparable so I wouldn't even bother trying to do something so impractical in real matches. Just use 2a.
2a is so much faster, you even have time to dash in for it to connect. So if you're too far away, make use of F-Ryougi's awesome ground dash.
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Something was quite bugging me...Isnt this the thread with thoughts about F-Ryougi?
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No. It's really hard. The damage is comparable so I wouldn't even bother trying to do something so impractical in real matches. Just use 2a.
2a is so much faster, you even have time to dash in for it to connect. So if you're too far away, make use of F-Ryougi's awesome ground dash.
2A is 5f, 2B is 8f.
Dashing back in and 2A'ing is far less practical than just adjusting your timing for a 3f tighter link. If you're actually able to do that that damn well, just practice being able to 2B better.
Edit:
Upon further inspection of the hitboxes, I think I may understand why 2B is harder than 2A, since the hitbox for 2A is higher then 2B at it's max range; 2B slices lower.
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4420/capturefz.png)
God Ryougi's hitboxes are just so fucking retarded ffs
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@Shlowpoke: Thanks for the reply! I had always wondered why the tk236b when doing an oki mixup, now I know it serves no real purpose haha. Also, like LivingShadow said, 2b has a longer range which is useful since there are certain situations whereby your third rekka will launch your opponent, but a 2a will whiff. However, for now 2a 5c will serve my purposes sufficiently.
@fiendmaw: We are talking about F-ryougi...?
@Rokunaya: That's some useful information. 3f seems like a pretty small time frame, but damn it's causing my relaunch consistency to drop from 90+% using 2a to less than 50% using 2b D:
and yes 2b has imba hitboxes :D
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Virtually all of her normals are like this.
.....