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Author Topic: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.  (Read 29079 times)

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Offline Rei

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2010, 02:21:29 PM »
Triple catch combos, let's goooo

Yeah I've seen that in a JP combo vid too, was hilarious
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Offline THCxWADE

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2010, 07:12:20 PM »
@WADE: the thing with 214A is you need to delay it after 6AAA. It's something like half a sec delay, but your 214A needs to hit the enemy lower so that the enemy doesn't have enough time in the air to tech before your 2C connects. I'll upload a vid later.


on another note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAYpy2RNkbA
captioned for my friend haha
The thought of double catch never even crossed my mind. You must be some sort of genius.
Is there any significant difference in between using 2c tk236B and 3c tk236B?


@wade I always feel like I delay for quite a while before I hit 2c. So if it's constantly whiffing, you might be doing it too early. Just mess around with it in practice mode.

As for 2c and 3c, I'm pretty sure 3c prorates more. In addition, each move might cause you to be spaced differently, which could matter when doing a corner combo on a character like Kohaku or Tohno Shiki.

okay, the only time i can get a 2c or 3c to connect after 214a is i do it clean from 6aaa. so basically just normal 2a 6aaa 214a 2c j.b-j.a-j.c j.b-j.c slam/air slice.  does it not work on certain characters?

it seems damn near impossible for them to be low enough for me to 2c them.
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Offline MissedFRC

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 PM »
5BB 2B 5C 2C tk.236B 5BB 214A 2C works. That's pretty basic for H-Ryougi.
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Offline MrQuotes

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2010, 10:16:11 PM »
@WADE: the thing with 214A is you need to delay it after 6AAA. It's something like half a sec delay, but your 214A needs to hit the enemy lower so that the enemy doesn't have enough time in the air to tech before your 2C connects. I'll upload a vid later.


on another note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAYpy2RNkbA
captioned for my friend haha
The thought of double catch never even crossed my mind. You must be some sort of genius.
Is there any significant difference in between using 2c tk236B and 3c tk236B?


@wade I always feel like I delay for quite a while before I hit 2c. So if it's constantly whiffing, you might be doing it too early. Just mess around with it in practice mode.

As for 2c and 3c, I'm pretty sure 3c prorates more. In addition, each move might cause you to be spaced differently, which could matter when doing a corner combo on a character like Kohaku or Tohno Shiki.

okay, the only time i can get a 2c or 3c to connect after 214a is i do it clean from 6aaa. so basically just normal 2a 6aaa 214a 2c j.b-j.a-j.c j.b-j.c slam/air slice.  does it not work on certain characters?

it seems damn near impossible for them to be low enough for me to 2c them.

im still new to the game but i think i might know whats going on. there's a certain amount of hits which will changed the gravity of a character, when i was trying the corner staple that Rei posted, i realized that if i put in too many hits before i got to the 214A 2C part, 2C would whiff. lower the amount of hits by the time you get to the 2C and it should connect alright.

5BB 2B 5C 2C tk.236B 5BB 214A 2C works. That's pretty basic for H-Ryougi.

at that point u might as well put in the ender with the knife toss and the rekkas, thats probably the less harder part.
 

Offline s4itox

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2010, 10:18:28 PM »

-snip-

okay, the only time i can get a 2c or 3c to connect after 214a is i do it clean from 6aaa. so basically just normal 2a 6aaa 214a 2c j.b-j.a-j.c j.b-j.c slam/air slice.  does it not work on certain characters?

it seems damn near impossible for them to be low enough for me to 2c them.

Again, you just need to delay the 214A after 6AAA.

Sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bG2XqZSp3I

Offline THCxWADE

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2010, 01:07:35 AM »

im still new to the game but i think i might know whats going on. there's a certain amount of hits which will changed the gravity of a character, when i was trying the corner staple that Rei posted, i realized that if i put in too many hits before i got to the 214A 2C part, 2C would whiff. lower the amount of hits by the time you get to the 2C and it should connect alright.

it has nothing to do with my timing. this guy had the answer!!!

s4itox you didn't press 5BB you pressed 5b. you completely took out a hit. (not to mention the extra added flair in the vid)
if you try it with 5bb it isn't gonna work. i tried for a few minutes only using 5b and i got it, maybe not consistently but i can do it now.

thanks MrQuotes for the key problem. and thanx s4itox for the vid showing me that i needed to take out the extra b.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 01:15:17 AM by THCxWADE »
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Offline s4itox

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2010, 02:23:23 AM »

im still new to the game but i think i might know whats going on. there's a certain amount of hits which will changed the gravity of a character, when i was trying the corner staple that Rei posted, i realized that if i put in too many hits before i got to the 214A 2C part, 2C would whiff. lower the amount of hits by the time you get to the 2C and it should connect alright.

it has nothing to do with my timing. this guy had the answer!!!

s4itox you didn't press 5BB you pressed 5b. you completely took out a hit. (not to mention the extra added flair in the vid)
if you try it with 5bb it isn't gonna work. i tried for a few minutes only using 5b and i got it, maybe not consistently but i can do it now.

thanks MrQuotes for the key problem. and thanx s4itox for the vid showing me that i needed to take out the extra b.

I omitted the first 5BB because I added in the j.C. AFAIK gravity works on hit counter, not hit strength. 2a5bb2b5c2c == j.c2a5b2b5c2c in terms of gravity.

Offline THCxWADE

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2010, 03:32:20 AM »

im still new to the game but i think i might know whats going on. there's a certain amount of hits which will changed the gravity of a character, when i was trying the corner staple that Rei posted, i realized that if i put in too many hits before i got to the 214A 2C part, 2C would whiff. lower the amount of hits by the time you get to the 2C and it should connect alright.

it has nothing to do with my timing. this guy had the answer!!!

s4itox you didn't press 5BB you pressed 5b. you completely took out a hit. (not to mention the extra added flair in the vid)
if you try it with 5bb it isn't gonna work. i tried for a few minutes only using 5b and i got it, maybe not consistently but i can do it now.

thanks MrQuotes for the key problem. and thanx s4itox for the vid showing me that i needed to take out the extra b.

I omitted the first 5BB because I added in the j.C. AFAIK gravity works on hit counter, not hit strength. 2a5bb2b5c2c == j.c2a5b2b5c2c in terms of gravity.

none the less, its easier with J.C 2a5b then just 2a5bb.
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2010, 04:03:28 PM »
You should probably learn the combo both ways regardless. You can't count on getting a j.c hit confirm. And to me, it feels like there's also a slight delay between 2c and 6aaa to me.

You should probably also try getting down the beginning of the corner combo that MissedFRC mentioned since it seems to be the most damaging corner BnB, and it can lead to a strong oki setup.

Offline THCxWADE

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2010, 07:12:59 PM »
You should probably learn the combo both ways regardless. You can't count on getting a j.c hit confirm. And to me, it feels like there's also a slight delay between 2c and 6aaa to me.

You should probably also try getting down the beginning of the corner combo that MissedFRC mentioned since it seems to be the most damaging corner BnB, and it can lead to a strong oki setup.

you misunderstand. its not so much the j.c as it is the 5.b and not 5.bb it doesnt matter what i start with.
i have also learned the begining of that combo as a part of 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C TK236B > 5BB 214A > 22A j.C AD(catch) j.C > dj.A j.B j.C > 236B

the tiger-knee input isnt really hard at all. sometimes the 5bb whiffs. everything else i can do. (not consistently yet, im still practicing)

and yeah when i execute the 2.c after 214a it feels like im waiting for them to be at the right height. theres a wait after the 6aaa, and there is a wait after the 214.A

(thx, for all the tips)
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Offline MissedFRC

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2010, 11:00:53 PM »
at that point u might as well put in the ender with the knife toss and the rekkas, thats probably the less harder part.

That ruins the whole point of ending with 2C though.
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Offline Rei

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2010, 04:08:11 PM »
at that point u might as well put in the ender with the knife toss and the rekkas, thats probably the less harder part.

That ruins the whole point of ending with 2C though.

2C 2A(whiff) lets you end with a L/R mixup, but it's not very safe for H-Ryougi. I'd prefer to just get corner knockdown with her and just keep the other person there with some of the safest oki. If she ends with 2C 2A then you'll be more vulnerable to invincible reversals and heats.
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2010, 05:41:31 PM »
at that point u might as well put in the ender with the knife toss and the rekkas, thats probably the less harder part.

That ruins the whole point of ending with 2C though.

2C 2A(whiff) lets you end with a L/R mixup, but it's not very safe for H-Ryougi. I'd prefer to just get corner knockdown with her and just keep the other person there with some of the safest oki. If she ends with 2C 2A then you'll be more vulnerable to invincible reversals and heats.

Personally, I like the L/R mix-up a lot. AFAIK you still have advantage even after the roll. So if you guess dp, then you can still block and if you guess heat, you can still shield/jump/backdash. I don't think it's really any more vulnerable than other oki. She also has pretty mediocre high/low mix-ups, and if you just go for guard crushes, people can ex-guard you all day, or ex-guard and jump out.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 05:46:25 PM by Nandeyanen »

Offline Rei

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2010, 06:31:06 PM »
at that point u might as well put in the ender with the knife toss and the rekkas, thats probably the less harder part.

That ruins the whole point of ending with 2C though.

2C 2A(whiff) lets you end with a L/R mixup, but it's not very safe for H-Ryougi. I'd prefer to just get corner knockdown with her and just keep the other person there with some of the safest oki. If she ends with 2C 2A then you'll be more vulnerable to invincible reversals and heats.

Personally, I like the L/R mix-up a lot. AFAIK you still have advantage even after the roll. So if you guess dp, then you can still block and if you guess heat, you can still shield/jump/backdash. I don't think it's really any more vulnerable than other oki. She also has pretty mediocre high/low mix-ups, and if you just go for guard crushes, people can ex-guard you all day, or ex-guard and jump out.

I don't like doing it that much with H-Ryougi mainly because C-Ryougi has an option select to beat Heat, backdash, and EX reversals.
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Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2010, 07:14:42 PM »
Roll mixup is not a bad thing.  If it works, it works.  Personally, I don't like rolling myself into the corner and giving up 1.8k in potential damage but Nandeyanen is right about half having essentially no mixups.  4C works only so many times before people start to catch on.
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Offline MrQuotes

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2010, 11:53:43 AM »
whats an L/R mixup?

still noobish.

Offline Tonberry

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2010, 06:46:31 PM »
whats an L/R mixup?

still noobish.

Left/Right mixup.
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Offline Greg

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2011, 08:28:18 AM »
I haven't really seen anyone talk about it, but from my experiences playing H-Ryougi, 22c is actually a pretty legitimate reversal.

There's no invincibility but that doesn't really matter much when the move activates in 0-1 frames.
And it's really very safe. Even if your opponent anticipates it, they should be in block stun long enough for you to do whatever you want.



Given the startup time, I also like to throw 22c in situations where both players are neutral tech'ing. It's a pretty easy way to take control back.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 08:48:45 AM by ghregg »
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Offline MrQuotes

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2011, 09:19:50 AM »
I haven't really seen anyone talk about it, but from my experiences playing H-Ryougi, 22c is actually a pretty legitimate reversal.

There's no invincibility but that doesn't really matter much when the move activates in 0-1 frames.
And it's really very safe. Even if your opponent anticipates it, they should be in block stun long enough for you to do whatever you want.



Given the startup time, I also like to throw 22c in situations where both players are neutral tech'ing. It's a pretty easy way to take control back.



risky as a reversal, as it can be predicted and reacted to at certain spaces.
also if they attack you going low it will just go over them.

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2011, 09:35:29 AM »
It's been mentioned, but in a different thread.  22C is very strong, and as far as I know it's unduckable.  Even Ryougi herself can't run underneath it.

It is, however, susceptible to dodges and shields if the opponent predicts it.  Use it in moderation like all other things.
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Offline Komidol

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2011, 10:23:10 AM »
risky as a reversal, as it can be predicted and reacted to at certain spaces.
also if they attack you going low it will just go over them.

If you predict anything you can counter it.  I can also attest (playing Kohaku) my 2C will only go under it at a certain time, which isn't necessairly optimal for a meaty (and if I do this, they could easily backdash out, because you can't use 2A 2C universal option select against an attack with ZERO TO ONE FRAMES activation, which is more retarded than the character itself).  

22C is one of the strongest tools in the game.  It has a 0~1 frame activation, and the knife goes multi-hit and fullscreen.  Sure, it can be reacted to at a "certain space", and baited, but so can all wake-up reversals.  Even if it has no invincibility, let's look at the different options:

1) There's really no advantage to rolling/shielding on your opponents wakeup in terms of oki with most characters, so I'll ignore that.  Unless they're specifically baiting 22C, which means you're getting yomi'd so you did it way too much (like any reversal).
2) You can do a slide (like satsuki's) I believe, but it will hit you if you do 2A oki against a 22C'ing Ryougi.  But why would you do that meaty?  If a slide is blocked you're at mad negative.  
3) You can do a sweep (like Kohaku 2C) but without the 2A 2C they can just backdash and with Ryougi's normals she can probably punish for that.  

I don't want to get messy with semantics and say is it or is it not a "reversal" because it has no i-frames, but it's not a bad option on wakeup to do time to time.  Honestly, it's activation punishes a 2A, any plant drop, over heads, jump ins (feint or not) and having experience fighting this matchup a lot, I can confidently say any trade with a normal almost always occurs in Ryougi's favor (short of like maybe Warc/Arc's 2B, but that also applys to situation 3 with the very possible exception of F-Warc).  That's because the knife multi hit is so long that even if Ryougi gets tagged she will recover way before you can.  It also has a range of other purposes for reapplying pressure and combos which I'm sure you've all gone into.  This is just some stupidly godlike move.  

I think it's a long shot away from a "risky reversal".  It's pretty reliable.  Definitely good in moderation, like CPhame said.  
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 10:25:19 AM by 2D »
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2011, 10:38:10 AM »
^said what I was thinking...I was just going to condense it to 2-3 lines cus I'm lazy :psyduck:.

Also, it trades w/ meaties which is probably some indication that it may actually be 0F lol. :mystery:
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Offline Komidol

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2011, 10:50:14 AM »
Haha yeah, why do you need invincibility frames if it IS 0f.  

Makes you think about the formal definition of a reversal.  I'd say contrary to the first post this is pretty good for her.
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Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2011, 12:19:26 PM »
It's risky in the sense that once you let go of the knife, it's gone.  She doesn't have any exceptional reversal moves outside of 214C and j236C (both of which are more punishable than 22C).  H Ryougi is very dependent on her knife because it allows her more flexibility in all sorts of situations.
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Offline Greg

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Re: H-Ryougi Game Play, Combos, Tech, and Etc.
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2011, 12:47:15 PM »
It's risky in the sense that once you let go of the knife, it's gone.  She doesn't have any exceptional reversal moves outside of 214C and j236C (both of which are more punishable than 22C).  H Ryougi is very dependent on her knife because it allows her more flexibility in all sorts of situations.

Sure, she needs the knife to say flexible. However, if you don't use the knife in situations where you could otherwise profit (e.g. using 22c to get out of the corner), you're actually losing flexibility for the sake of retaining flexibility. It becomes something of a catch 22.

Besides, if your 22c connects you can actually catch the knife in the followup combo. Granted if it doesn't hit them, you'd have to pick it up somehow, but why would you reversal if you didn't think it was going to hit them?

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