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Author Topic: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread  (Read 41789 times)

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Offline Dipstick

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H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« on: August 19, 2009, 08:20:16 AM »
I know it's bad form to start a strategy thread without any actual content, but I just locked the only thread in this forum so I figured it would be appropriate to create a couple so people could actually discuss things.

This thread is intended for random questions about playing Half-style Shiki Ryougi that one may have, but do not warrant an actual thread. For random discussion about Crescent and Full moon versions of her, please see the appropriate threads (Crescent-Moon Ryougi thread and Full-Moon Ryougi thread). If you have a more in-depth question, please start a new thread.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 08:24:36 AM by D:ipstick »
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Offline c-nero 5[c]

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2009, 02:54:00 PM »
h-ryougi thoughts: "why aren't you playing crescent instead"
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Offline s4itox

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 01:44:37 AM »
2ab5c3c(2hits)5b j.bc j.bc airthrow
thoughts?

Offline ShinMasaki

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 02:44:53 AM »
Common Sense?! In My Touhous?! WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS!!!

Offline Irysa

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 11:20:51 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC5d__Kg_oQ

this is why you play H over C
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Offline ShinMasaki

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 07:04:06 PM »
nice combo vid. everything in there requires so much more effort than C- though...

I am highly impressed with the two different infinites in that combo vid though. and the fact that the second one is doable ANYWHERE and not limited to corners.
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Offline Benny1

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 07:35:48 PM »
There are infinites in that video?  I was under the impression juggle infinites are basically impossible in this game, because of gravity and the slightly adjusted airtime time bar.
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Offline Press

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 07:37:33 PM »
Yea, those aren't infinites, which is why you don't see the guy doing something like a fast forwarded video of it doing it like 999 hits or something. They're just long loops. Now Archetype Earth, she has a true infinite.
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Offline Irysa

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2009, 08:14:01 PM »
nice combo vid. everything in there requires so much more effort than C- though...

I am highly impressed with the two different infinites in that combo vid though. and the fact that the second one is doable ANYWHERE and not limited to corners.

H can catch it's knife in the air, C can't.

Play H to look cool.
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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 09:33:23 PM »
The only thing H really has that's interesting are the multiple knife throw combos as a result of air catching.

The loop is dumb.  He did what, 6 or more reps of it to only get 5k?  Pretty lame if you ask me.
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Offline c-nero 5[c]

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 10:55:40 AM »
The only thing H really has that's interesting are the multiple knife throw combos as a result of air catching.

The loop is dumb.  He did what, 6 or more reps of it to only get 5k?  Pretty lame if you ask me.

uhhh there are people on this very forum that trained to do 6+ reps of a certain OTG string of a certain Shit character just to run down the timer

thats before we even get into stuff like arcueid relaunches
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 12:26:08 PM »
The only thing H really has that's interesting are the multiple knife throw combos as a result of air catching.

The loop is dumb.  He did what, 6 or more reps of it to only get 5k?  Pretty lame if you ask me.

I think it's closer to 6k, and IMO, being able to hit 6k damage anywhere on the screen off of a random 2a is pretty good. Downside is that you generally lose your knife (unless you're close enough for 2a 2b 3c -> knife loop), which is pretty poor for H-Ryougi, since she gets a lot from having her knife (see below).

I don't know if people noticed, but you can use her midair knife catch (off of a ricocheting knife from j.22a/b, 22a/b, or 63214a/b) to kill her forward momentum from an AD and get a really short AD into an ambiguous high/low/throw mixup (ex: blockstring -> 22a -> j.7 tap 6+ab -> j.c/2a/throw). I really think that H-Ryougi's knife game is the most important difference when you're comparing her to C or F-Ryougi.

Offline ShinShom

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2009, 12:52:03 PM »
taht weird loop is character specific....

on nanaya for example it doesnt work.
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Offline SynSid

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2009, 11:08:51 AM »
After many hours of practicing H-Ryougi, here are my thoughts:

The Sweep Loop
combo starter --> [delay 2A, 2C, delay 3C]x3 > [2A, 2C, 3C,]x3 > 5BB > air combo

I was surprised that this loop isn't too difficult and it can be done from anywhere and from many different setups.  It is worth the effort in learning this.  So far, I can pull at least 3 reps of the loop on Akiha and Sion 80% of the time (still does like 4k damage).  Timing for the delay on all the characters varies greatly.  Tried to do the loop on Nanaya, but it looks impossible so far.  If you mess up during the loop after a 2C, it still knocks them down so you still have many safe options afterward.

The sweep loop may crossup midscreen, which makes it very difficult to continue the loop.  A way to prevent this is to use 623B in the combo, preventing 2C from crossing up.

Setups for the sweep loop I have tried so far:
2A> 2B > 5BB > 5C > 2C > 22A > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
This works best on the corner (if done midscreen, theres a chance of crossing over).  Requires knife.  I would use this as my BNB.

2A > 5B > 6AAA > delay 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Knifeless.  The timing of the sweep loop also changes.

Counterhit in the air > land > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
May crossover during the loop.

5C > 3C > 623B > 2C > 3C> sweep loop
Works best in midscreen.  The 623B puts you at a good distance away, which will later prevent a crossup during the sweep loop.

22A/22C (midrange) > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Works anywhere.  A delayed knife throw (hit) after a pressure string can result in some nice damage.

4C > 22A > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Overhead into the loop.  Corner only.

4C > 22A > 2C > 3C > 623B > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Overhead into the loop.  Midscreen.

General strategy
-Catching the knife while air dashing stops the momentum.  This sets up some good high/low/throw mixups
-Blockstring > 22A > jump > air dash foward (catch knife) lets you reset your pressure.  22A can be delayed and if it hits --> sweep loop
-The only way to combo off the 4C overhead is 22A.
-Ending a combo with j.236B allows some time to pick up your knife if you used it.
-Midscreen blockstring > 63214B will cause the knife to ricochet against the ground and wall back to you, giving you an easy catch.
-combo starter > 22A > 5C > jump (catch) > j.BC > j.BC > j.236C/airthrow is the easy BNB without losing your knife.
-Losing your knife removes a lot of what H-Ryougi can do in pressure/mixups.
-combo starter > 3C > 623B > BNB or sweep loop for a knifeless combo.

Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2009, 11:55:33 PM »
Found that H-Ryougi can do something like V-Sion. It's along the lines of:

2c5c jb delay jc land jajc djbc airthrow/j236

Haven't tried it from 'em sweep loops cos my execution sucks so hopefully somebody will be willing to perfect this technique.
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Offline Anakha

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2009, 08:52:10 AM »
Haven't tried it from 'em sweep loops cos my execution sucks so hopefully somebody will be willing to perfect this technique.

i would give it a try but my execution sucks as well on a stick.  still tryin to perfect 2aa>5c>6c>2c>5bb>jc>Jbc>Jbc>AT  with Tohno  :'(

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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2009, 05:23:44 PM »
Recent thoughts I've had playing H-Ryougi:

Pros
Far reaching ground attacks
Good air to air attacks
Decent air to ground attacks
Knife catch gimmicks
Good guard damage
Decent damage

Cons
Most ground attacks have slow recovery (need to use 2a to whiff cancel)
Pressure is much weaker without knife
No real reversal attacks
Very low health
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 08:39:48 AM by Nandeyanen »

Offline MissedFRC

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2009, 01:01:09 PM »
Use B parry (i think it's B, might be C, whichever one has less recovery) as your whiff cancel. It's just as fast and saves you a reverse beat. You also look cool  :toot:

Catching knife out of the AD not only kills your forward momentum, it eliminates airdash recovery.

And if you used your knife in the corner to start 3C loop, cancel your last rep into knife pickup rather than doing air combo, unless you really want that meter over your knife for some reason.
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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2009, 12:10:27 PM »
Here are some practical non-character-specific combos for H-Ryougi that I've found.

Anywhere on Screen

Standard BnB:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(5023 damage to V.Sion)
For when you don’t know what else to do.

From Full-screen to Mid-Screen

High Damage + Knife Pickup:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, sdj.abc, 236b
(5,245 damage to V.Sion)
If you did the super double jump, you should land right on the knife after j.236b

Knife Pickup + Oki:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 623a
(4,462 damage to V.Sion)
Should put you right on the knife, with just enough time to pick it up and IAD j.c at them on wakeup.

From Mid-Screen

High Damage + Knife Pickup:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(5,035 damage to V.Sion)
If you're too far into the corner you might accidentally cross up with 2c. Should land you on the knife.

High Damage + Knife Pickup (alternate):
2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, sdj.abc, 236b
(5,143 damage to V.Sion)
If you did the super double jump, you should land right on the knife after j.236b

Knife Pickup + Oki:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 623a
(4,588 damage to V.Sion)
Should put you right on the knife, with just enough time to pick it up and IAD j.c at them on wakeup

In the Corner

High Damage + Knife Catch:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK236b, 5bb, 214a, 22a, j.c, AD(catch), c, dj.abc, 236b
(5,176 damage to V.Sion)
The knife catch cancels your air dash so you can hit the second j.c.

Knife Pickup + Oki:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 5bb, 214a, 3c, 236a, 236a, 214a
(4,556 damage to V.Sion)
Use 214a instead of 236a at the end because you'll be on the other side of them. Lands you right on the knife.

Knife Pickup + Oki (alternate):
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 22a
(4,050 damage to V.Sion)
Cancels the untechable 2c with knife pickup. This version keeps them in the corner. Follow up with the slow-ass dash 6a+b roll crossup for the lulz.
High Damage + Knife Pickup + Oki:  :slowpoke:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, (delay), 5c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 236a, 236a, 236a
(5,503 damage to V.Sion)
Nice damage, keeps them in the corner, gives you time to pick up the knife and still have advantage on oki.  

« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 01:55:49 AM by Shlowpoke »

Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2009, 05:22:44 AM »
Wow Shlowpoke, I was about to make a simple guide to H-Ryougi but your guide has so much stuff that makes all my stuff look useless.

If you're lazy, 2a5bb2b5c2c6aaa jbc djbc airthrow/j236b/c is an easy to hit-confirm combo. Certain characters (ie Kouma) need a 5c2c delay 6aaa.

2a5bb2b5c2c6aaa 214a aerial is an easy way to get your opponent to the corner. 6aaa delay 214a will make your opponent lower and make your aerial easier to connect, Aerial combo depends on how high your opponent is and how far away you are from your opponent.

And a semi-important note. 5bb 214a will not connect if you have more than 10 hits before 214a. Meaning:

2a5bb2b5c2c 22a 2c5bb 214a will connect as there are 10 hits before 214a is executed.

2a5bb2b5c2c 22a 2c3c5bb 214a will NOT connect because there are 11 hits before 214a is executed.

Hence, if you do two 2As to hit-confirm your combo, you will have to adapt your combo so that 5bb 214a will connect in the middle.
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Offline FireBearHero

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2009, 09:50:20 AM »
tk j.236C works for a reversal and wallslams, giving you plenty of time to pick up your knife if you're hurting for it.

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2009, 06:08:01 PM »
^That may not be true. Because it's a TK there's still the jump startup of 4 frames before the actual attack, meaning if the opponent does a meaty you will still lose out.
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Offline Shlowpoke

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2009, 01:49:28 AM »
And a semi-important note. 5bb 214a will not connect if you have more than 10 hits before 214a.
It also seems like any use of 623b makes linking 5bb to 214a impossible. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

On a completely different topic, I've been experimenting with knife catch mixups and found some cool stuff. If you end a combo with 2c or 3c (for the untechable knockdown) you can whiff a knife throw to create a really hard-to-block mixup. 22a/b and 63214a are the best throws for this. 63214c works in the corner and looks awesome, but there are probably better uses for your meter.

22a: Fastest throw. You have to delay a bit after the knockdown move so you don't accidentally combo. There are two ways to catch the knife after 22a. The first and easiest is to jump back and air dash into the knife, then fall on your opponent with j.c. The input is 22a, 766c. The second way is to wait after throwing it, then instant air dash at just the right time. Input is 22a, delay, 6896c. Of course, you can choose to omit the j.c and land with a 2a once your opponent gets used to it.

22b: Slower throw. You have to delay a bit against most characters so you don't get an OTG combo. The throw is just laggy enough that if you IAD as soon as you can, you'll instantly cancel your air dash. Example: 22b, 6896c.

63214a: Pretty much the same options as 22a here, except the timing is much more straightforward.

All of these are usable anywhere on screen, and sometimes cross up from certain distances if the opponent blocks low. I wish I had recording equipment so I could make a video to explain these better. =/

While I was messing with this IAD cancel stuff I found a flashy midscreen knife-catch combo:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 5b, 6896(catch)c, land, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(4,453 damage to V.Sion)
Not very practical, but it looks sweet.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 02:13:15 AM by Shlowpoke »

Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2009, 03:44:56 AM »
And a semi-important note. 5bb 214a will not connect if you have more than 10 hits before 214a.
It also seems like any use of 623b makes linking 5bb to 214a impossible. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

On a completely different topic, I've been experimenting with knife catch mixups and found some cool stuff. If you end a combo with 2c or 3c (for the untechable knockdown) you can whiff a knife throw to create a really hard-to-block mixup. 22a/b and 63214a are the best throws for this. 63214c works in the corner and looks awesome, but there are probably better uses for your meter.

22a: Fastest throw. You have to delay a bit after the knockdown move so you don't accidentally combo. There are two ways to catch the knife after 22a. The first and easiest is to jump back and air dash into the knife, then fall on your opponent with j.c. The input is 22a, 766c. The second way is to wait after throwing it, then instant air dash at just the right time. Input is 22a, delay, 6896c. Of course, you can choose to omit the j.c and land with a 2a once your opponent gets used to it.

22b: Slower throw. You have to delay a bit against most characters so you don't get an OTG combo. The throw is just laggy enough that if you IAD as soon as you can, you'll instantly cancel your air dash. Example: 22b, 6896c.

63214a: Pretty much the same options as 22a here, except the timing is much more straightforward.

All of these are usable anywhere on screen, and sometimes cross up from certain distances if the opponent blocks low. I wish I had recording equipment so I could make a video to explain these better. =/

While I was messing with this IAD cancel stuff I found a flashy midscreen knife-catch combo:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 5b, 6896(catch)c, land, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(4,453 damage to V.Sion)
Not very practical, but it looks sweet.

I haven't found the 63214a to be all that useful. It really takes too much time, and if your opponent has any sort of anti-air, they'll have gotten up before you catch your knife, and you'll eat a combo as/before you catch your knife.

And since you mentioned the knife catching, you should also note that if you're playing keep away, or need to space yourself out better, you can do 22a, 66 (dash), 9, 4a+b (air backdash into knife catch) to fly back about a half a screen. If you air dodge, you will maintain the momentum, and end up nearly a full screen away.

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2009, 11:40:24 AM »
I haven't really stuck 63214A into muscle memory yet, but as far as memory serves the air pickup is much more quicker than 22A.  If you mix it in with 214A or 214B, it helps the mind game since the animation looks incredibly similar but you have to train them to expect a 214A_B coming to make them freeze up.  Otherwise you're going to be DP or shield bunker bait up close.

22A gives Ryougi a fireball option; you can throw them out from max distance with little worries since it'll always ricochet off the wall.  Sometimes I spam 22A > air pickup > (air)22B_C for fun and random hits. 

There might be an application for 63214B when your back is against the wall -- not so sure if it's invincible on startup or what not, but if it is it might be useful for getting out of the corner when the opponent is on the ground doing block strings and what not.  623A is the other alternative for escaping the corner since it's fast and travels far.

I'll start using more 2369C as an anti-air to see if it gets any results.  Last I checked, it had invincible startup.  Too bad it's cursedly slow and a bit unreliable (not to mention unsafe)
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