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Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Actress Again => Shiki Ryougi => Topic started by: Dipstick on August 19, 2009, 08:20:16 AM

When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
Title: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Dipstick on August 19, 2009, 08:20:16 AM
I know it's bad form to start a strategy thread without any actual content, but I just locked the only thread in this forum so I figured it would be appropriate to create a couple so people could actually discuss things.

This thread is intended for random questions about playing Half-style Shiki Ryougi that one may have, but do not warrant an actual thread. For random discussion about Crescent and Full moon versions of her, please see the appropriate threads (Crescent-Moon Ryougi thread (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/shiki-ryougi/c-ryougi-thoughts-without-a-thread/) and Full-Moon Ryougi thread (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/shiki-ryougi/f-ryougi-thoughts-without-a-thread/)). If you have a more in-depth question, please start a new thread.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: c-nero 5[c] on August 19, 2009, 02:54:00 PM
h-ryougi thoughts: "why aren't you playing crescent instead"
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: s4itox on August 20, 2009, 01:44:37 AM
2ab5c3c(2hits)5b j.bc j.bc airthrow
thoughts?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: ShinMasaki on August 24, 2009, 02:44:53 AM
thoughts?

play crescent, nuff said
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Irysa on August 27, 2009, 11:20:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC5d__Kg_oQ

this is why you play H over C
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: ShinMasaki on August 27, 2009, 07:04:06 PM
nice combo vid. everything in there requires so much more effort than C- though...

I am highly impressed with the two different infinites in that combo vid though. and the fact that the second one is doable ANYWHERE and not limited to corners.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Benny1 on August 27, 2009, 07:35:48 PM
There are infinites in that video?  I was under the impression juggle infinites are basically impossible in this game, because of gravity and the slightly adjusted airtime time bar.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Press on August 27, 2009, 07:37:33 PM
Yea, those aren't infinites, which is why you don't see the guy doing something like a fast forwarded video of it doing it like 999 hits or something. They're just long loops. Now Archetype Earth, she has a true infinite.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Irysa on August 27, 2009, 08:14:01 PM
nice combo vid. everything in there requires so much more effort than C- though...

I am highly impressed with the two different infinites in that combo vid though. and the fact that the second one is doable ANYWHERE and not limited to corners.

H can catch it's knife in the air, C can't.

Play H to look cool.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: LoliSauce on August 27, 2009, 09:33:23 PM
The only thing H really has that's interesting are the multiple knife throw combos as a result of air catching.

The loop is dumb.  He did what, 6 or more reps of it to only get 5k?  Pretty lame if you ask me.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: c-nero 5[c] on August 28, 2009, 10:55:40 AM
The only thing H really has that's interesting are the multiple knife throw combos as a result of air catching.

The loop is dumb.  He did what, 6 or more reps of it to only get 5k?  Pretty lame if you ask me.

uhhh there are people on this very forum that trained to do 6+ reps of a certain OTG string of a certain Shit character just to run down the timer

thats before we even get into stuff like arcueid relaunches
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on August 28, 2009, 12:26:08 PM
The only thing H really has that's interesting are the multiple knife throw combos as a result of air catching.

The loop is dumb.  He did what, 6 or more reps of it to only get 5k?  Pretty lame if you ask me.

I think it's closer to 6k, and IMO, being able to hit 6k damage anywhere on the screen off of a random 2a is pretty good. Downside is that you generally lose your knife (unless you're close enough for 2a 2b 3c -> knife loop), which is pretty poor for H-Ryougi, since she gets a lot from having her knife (see below).

I don't know if people noticed, but you can use her midair knife catch (off of a ricocheting knife from j.22a/b, 22a/b, or 63214a/b) to kill her forward momentum from an AD and get a really short AD into an ambiguous high/low/throw mixup (ex: blockstring -> 22a -> j.7 tap 6+ab -> j.c/2a/throw). I really think that H-Ryougi's knife game is the most important difference when you're comparing her to C or F-Ryougi.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: ShinShom on August 28, 2009, 12:52:03 PM
taht weird loop is character specific....

on nanaya for example it doesnt work.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: SynSid on September 26, 2009, 11:08:51 AM
After many hours of practicing H-Ryougi, here are my thoughts:

The Sweep Loop
combo starter --> [delay 2A, 2C, delay 3C]x3 > [2A, 2C, 3C,]x3 > 5BB > air combo

I was surprised that this loop isn't too difficult and it can be done from anywhere and from many different setups.  It is worth the effort in learning this.  So far, I can pull at least 3 reps of the loop on Akiha and Sion 80% of the time (still does like 4k damage).  Timing for the delay on all the characters varies greatly.  Tried to do the loop on Nanaya, but it looks impossible so far.  If you mess up during the loop after a 2C, it still knocks them down so you still have many safe options afterward.

The sweep loop may crossup midscreen, which makes it very difficult to continue the loop.  A way to prevent this is to use 623B in the combo, preventing 2C from crossing up.

Setups for the sweep loop I have tried so far:
2A> 2B > 5BB > 5C > 2C > 22A > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
This works best on the corner (if done midscreen, theres a chance of crossing over).  Requires knife.  I would use this as my BNB.

2A > 5B > 6AAA > delay 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Knifeless.  The timing of the sweep loop also changes.

Counterhit in the air > land > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
May crossover during the loop.

5C > 3C > 623B > 2C > 3C> sweep loop
Works best in midscreen.  The 623B puts you at a good distance away, which will later prevent a crossup during the sweep loop.

22A/22C (midrange) > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Works anywhere.  A delayed knife throw (hit) after a pressure string can result in some nice damage.

4C > 22A > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Overhead into the loop.  Corner only.

4C > 22A > 2C > 3C > 623B > 2C > 3C > sweep loop
Overhead into the loop.  Midscreen.

General strategy
-Catching the knife while air dashing stops the momentum.  This sets up some good high/low/throw mixups
-Blockstring > 22A > jump > air dash foward (catch knife) lets you reset your pressure.  22A can be delayed and if it hits --> sweep loop
-The only way to combo off the 4C overhead is 22A.
-Ending a combo with j.236B allows some time to pick up your knife if you used it.
-Midscreen blockstring > 63214B will cause the knife to ricochet against the ground and wall back to you, giving you an easy catch.
-combo starter > 22A > 5C > jump (catch) > j.BC > j.BC > j.236C/airthrow is the easy BNB without losing your knife.
-Losing your knife removes a lot of what H-Ryougi can do in pressure/mixups.
-combo starter > 3C > 623B > BNB or sweep loop for a knifeless combo.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on October 01, 2009, 11:55:33 PM
Found that H-Ryougi can do something like V-Sion. It's along the lines of:

2c5c jb delay jc land jajc djbc airthrow/j236

Haven't tried it from 'em sweep loops cos my execution sucks so hopefully somebody will be willing to perfect this technique.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Anakha on October 08, 2009, 08:52:10 AM
Haven't tried it from 'em sweep loops cos my execution sucks so hopefully somebody will be willing to perfect this technique.

i would give it a try but my execution sucks as well on a stick.  still tryin to perfect 2aa>5c>6c>2c>5bb>jc>Jbc>Jbc>AT  with Tohno  :'(

(damn you Guilty Gear, DAMN YOU! >:()
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on November 07, 2009, 05:23:44 PM
Recent thoughts I've had playing H-Ryougi:

Pros
Far reaching ground attacks
Good air to air attacks
Decent air to ground attacks
Knife catch gimmicks
Good guard damage
Decent damage

Cons
Most ground attacks have slow recovery (need to use 2a to whiff cancel)
Pressure is much weaker without knife
No real reversal attacks
Very low health
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on November 26, 2009, 01:01:09 PM
Use B parry (i think it's B, might be C, whichever one has less recovery) as your whiff cancel. It's just as fast and saves you a reverse beat. You also look cool  :toot:

Catching knife out of the AD not only kills your forward momentum, it eliminates airdash recovery.

And if you used your knife in the corner to start 3C loop, cancel your last rep into knife pickup rather than doing air combo, unless you really want that meter over your knife for some reason.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on December 26, 2009, 12:10:27 PM
Here are some practical non-character-specific combos for H-Ryougi that I've found.

Anywhere on Screen

Standard BnB:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(5023 damage to V.Sion)
For when you don’t know what else to do.

From Full-screen to Mid-Screen

High Damage + Knife Pickup:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, sdj.abc, 236b
(5,245 damage to V.Sion)
If you did the super double jump, you should land right on the knife after j.236b

Knife Pickup + Oki:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 623a
(4,462 damage to V.Sion)
Should put you right on the knife, with just enough time to pick it up and IAD j.c at them on wakeup.

From Mid-Screen

High Damage + Knife Pickup:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(5,035 damage to V.Sion)
If you're too far into the corner you might accidentally cross up with 2c. Should land you on the knife.

High Damage + Knife Pickup (alternate):
2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, sdj.abc, 236b
(5,143 damage to V.Sion)
If you did the super double jump, you should land right on the knife after j.236b

Knife Pickup + Oki:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 623a
(4,588 damage to V.Sion)
Should put you right on the knife, with just enough time to pick it up and IAD j.c at them on wakeup

In the Corner

High Damage + Knife Catch:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK236b, 5bb, 214a, 22a, j.c, AD(catch), c, dj.abc, 236b
(5,176 damage to V.Sion)
The knife catch cancels your air dash so you can hit the second j.c.

Knife Pickup + Oki:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 5bb, 214a, 3c, 236a, 236a, 214a
(4,556 damage to V.Sion)
Use 214a instead of 236a at the end because you'll be on the other side of them. Lands you right on the knife.

Knife Pickup + Oki (alternate):
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 22a
(4,050 damage to V.Sion)
Cancels the untechable 2c with knife pickup. This version keeps them in the corner. Follow up with the slow-ass dash 6a+b roll crossup for the lulz.
High Damage + Knife Pickup + Oki:  :slowpoke:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, (delay), 5c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 236a, 236a, 236a
(5,503 damage to V.Sion)
Nice damage, keeps them in the corner, gives you time to pick up the knife and still have advantage on oki.  

Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on December 27, 2009, 05:22:44 AM
Wow Shlowpoke, I was about to make a simple guide to H-Ryougi but your guide has so much stuff that makes all my stuff look useless.

If you're lazy, 2a5bb2b5c2c6aaa jbc djbc airthrow/j236b/c is an easy to hit-confirm combo. Certain characters (ie Kouma) need a 5c2c delay 6aaa.

2a5bb2b5c2c6aaa 214a aerial is an easy way to get your opponent to the corner. 6aaa delay 214a will make your opponent lower and make your aerial easier to connect, Aerial combo depends on how high your opponent is and how far away you are from your opponent.

And a semi-important note. 5bb 214a will not connect if you have more than 10 hits before 214a. Meaning:

2a5bb2b5c2c 22a 2c5bb 214a will connect as there are 10 hits before 214a is executed.

2a5bb2b5c2c 22a 2c3c5bb 214a will NOT connect because there are 11 hits before 214a is executed.

Hence, if you do two 2As to hit-confirm your combo, you will have to adapt your combo so that 5bb 214a will connect in the middle.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: FireBearHero on December 27, 2009, 09:50:20 AM
tk j.236C works for a reversal and wallslams, giving you plenty of time to pick up your knife if you're hurting for it.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on December 27, 2009, 06:08:01 PM
^That may not be true. Because it's a TK there's still the jump startup of 4 frames before the actual attack, meaning if the opponent does a meaty you will still lose out.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on December 28, 2009, 01:49:28 AM
And a semi-important note. 5bb 214a will not connect if you have more than 10 hits before 214a.
It also seems like any use of 623b makes linking 5bb to 214a impossible. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

On a completely different topic, I've been experimenting with knife catch mixups and found some cool stuff. If you end a combo with 2c or 3c (for the untechable knockdown) you can whiff a knife throw to create a really hard-to-block mixup. 22a/b and 63214a are the best throws for this. 63214c works in the corner and looks awesome, but there are probably better uses for your meter.

22a: Fastest throw. You have to delay a bit after the knockdown move so you don't accidentally combo. There are two ways to catch the knife after 22a. The first and easiest is to jump back and air dash into the knife, then fall on your opponent with j.c. The input is 22a, 766c. The second way is to wait after throwing it, then instant air dash at just the right time. Input is 22a, delay, 6896c. Of course, you can choose to omit the j.c and land with a 2a once your opponent gets used to it.

22b: Slower throw. You have to delay a bit against most characters so you don't get an OTG combo. The throw is just laggy enough that if you IAD as soon as you can, you'll instantly cancel your air dash. Example: 22b, 6896c.

63214a: Pretty much the same options as 22a here, except the timing is much more straightforward.

All of these are usable anywhere on screen, and sometimes cross up from certain distances if the opponent blocks low. I wish I had recording equipment so I could make a video to explain these better. =/

While I was messing with this IAD cancel stuff I found a flashy midscreen knife-catch combo:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 5b, 6896(catch)c, land, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(4,453 damage to V.Sion)
Not very practical, but it looks sweet.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 28, 2009, 03:44:56 AM
And a semi-important note. 5bb 214a will not connect if you have more than 10 hits before 214a.
It also seems like any use of 623b makes linking 5bb to 214a impossible. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

On a completely different topic, I've been experimenting with knife catch mixups and found some cool stuff. If you end a combo with 2c or 3c (for the untechable knockdown) you can whiff a knife throw to create a really hard-to-block mixup. 22a/b and 63214a are the best throws for this. 63214c works in the corner and looks awesome, but there are probably better uses for your meter.

22a: Fastest throw. You have to delay a bit after the knockdown move so you don't accidentally combo. There are two ways to catch the knife after 22a. The first and easiest is to jump back and air dash into the knife, then fall on your opponent with j.c. The input is 22a, 766c. The second way is to wait after throwing it, then instant air dash at just the right time. Input is 22a, delay, 6896c. Of course, you can choose to omit the j.c and land with a 2a once your opponent gets used to it.

22b: Slower throw. You have to delay a bit against most characters so you don't get an OTG combo. The throw is just laggy enough that if you IAD as soon as you can, you'll instantly cancel your air dash. Example: 22b, 6896c.

63214a: Pretty much the same options as 22a here, except the timing is much more straightforward.

All of these are usable anywhere on screen, and sometimes cross up from certain distances if the opponent blocks low. I wish I had recording equipment so I could make a video to explain these better. =/

While I was messing with this IAD cancel stuff I found a flashy midscreen knife-catch combo:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 5b, 6896(catch)c, land, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b
(4,453 damage to V.Sion)
Not very practical, but it looks sweet.

I haven't found the 63214a to be all that useful. It really takes too much time, and if your opponent has any sort of anti-air, they'll have gotten up before you catch your knife, and you'll eat a combo as/before you catch your knife.

And since you mentioned the knife catching, you should also note that if you're playing keep away, or need to space yourself out better, you can do 22a, 66 (dash), 9, 4a+b (air backdash into knife catch) to fly back about a half a screen. If you air dodge, you will maintain the momentum, and end up nearly a full screen away.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on December 28, 2009, 11:40:24 AM
I haven't really stuck 63214A into muscle memory yet, but as far as memory serves the air pickup is much more quicker than 22A.  If you mix it in with 214A or 214B, it helps the mind game since the animation looks incredibly similar but you have to train them to expect a 214A_B coming to make them freeze up.  Otherwise you're going to be DP or shield bunker bait up close.

22A gives Ryougi a fireball option; you can throw them out from max distance with little worries since it'll always ricochet off the wall.  Sometimes I spam 22A > air pickup > (air)22B_C for fun and random hits. 

There might be an application for 63214B when your back is against the wall -- not so sure if it's invincible on startup or what not, but if it is it might be useful for getting out of the corner when the opponent is on the ground doing block strings and what not.  623A is the other alternative for escaping the corner since it's fast and travels far.

I'll start using more 2369C as an anti-air to see if it gets any results.  Last I checked, it had invincible startup.  Too bad it's cursedly slow and a bit unreliable (not to mention unsafe)
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 28, 2009, 10:02:45 PM
I haven't really stuck 63214A into muscle memory yet, but as far as memory serves the air pickup is much more quicker than 22A.  If you mix it in with 214A or 214B, it helps the mind game since the animation looks incredibly similar but you have to train them to expect a 214A_B coming to make them freeze up.  Otherwise you're going to be DP or shield bunker bait up close.

22A gives Ryougi a fireball option; you can throw them out from max distance with little worries since it'll always ricochet off the wall.  Sometimes I spam 22A > air pickup > (air)22B_C for fun and random hits.  

There might be an application for 63214B when your back is against the wall -- not so sure if it's invincible on startup or what not, but if it is it might be useful for getting out of the corner when the opponent is on the ground doing block strings and what not.  623A is the other alternative for escaping the corner since it's fast and travels far.

I'll start using more 2369C as an anti-air to see if it gets any results.  Last I checked, it had invincible startup.  Too bad it's cursedly slow and a bit unreliable (not to mention unsafe)

None of the 63214 moves are invincible on start up.

2368c has 4 frames of jump start up, and 2369 has 6 frames of jump start up, so like BurstofAnger said, it's not a great wake up reversal. I can see it being used to avoid some air unblockable/unshieldable things like Miyako's AD, against shield bunkers, half moon shield parries, and half moon auto circuit sparks. As for using it as an anti-air, you're probably better off air throwing or using 5a/5b or j.6b/j.c as anti-air (depending on how you're positioned).

To get out of tight corner pressure, IMO, your best and safest option is to block until you can jump/dash out or have enough meter to bunker out. If you've got the read on your opponent, you can also go for a counter throw/air throw, a counter poke, or (shield) parrying. You can also arc drive if you know you can get the unblockable hit.

Edit: added more things that you can use j.236c to avoid.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on December 29, 2009, 12:24:59 AM
Yeah, I didn't think it had any startup, to be honest.  Thanks for reconfirming that.

63214B is decent with your back against the wall.  It jumps over crouchers, and the knife always ricochets off the wall for an optional IAD knife catch if you need it for pressure.  However, it telegraphs pretty badly so if someone suspects one, they can knock it out of the air pretty easily.  Overall, still a cruddy move.

623A goes under people.  I guess it's made to be the other way out if people jump in on you.

I played around and changed my gameplan to see how much of a difference it would make, and the results were pretty good.  Knife throw > air catch > knife throw really helped pin down the other guy alot easier; I think I got something like four knife throws in a row or something until they finally started doing something about it. 

Then I started sticking 2369B_C into the mix: it has such a huge hitbox that if they didn't block it in the air, they'd get wallslammed immediately and I could continue throwing knives from far away with impunity.  214A helped as well as it had more horizontal range.  The neatest thing I did all night was a blocked 2369A, land, 5BB (while they're stuck in the air) > 214A into wall combo. 

So now I'm using her from midscreen to fullscreen now to harass them from a distance, and it works pretty well.  A lot better then trying to rush in and land bnbs, anyway.  I'm going to try sticking 214C and 22C in a bit more, to see if that helps her tighten the distance and see if that gets any results.  There might be some use for 6AAA as well, too.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on December 29, 2009, 01:16:12 AM
I'm going to start learning H-Ryougi combos now. I'll do some experimenting and report on my findings. I'll probably play against a few people soon and I'll try her out.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on December 29, 2009, 01:29:16 AM
I'm going to start learning H-Ryougi combos now. I'll do some experimenting and report on my findings. I'll probably play against a few people soon and I'll try her out.

I'm interested in seeing what you think about the switch from C to H. Record matches if you can, please.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 29, 2009, 01:32:34 AM
I'm going to start learning H-Ryougi combos now. I'll do some experimenting and report on my findings. I'll probably play against a few people soon and I'll try her out.

I'm interested in seeing what you think about the switch from C to H. Record matches if you can, please.

Actually, I'd also like to request that anyone else here who can record some matches to do so. Wondering if there's a huge variation in playstyles, or if we all tend to play her similarly.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on December 29, 2009, 01:37:26 AM
I'll start by learning the basics posted in this thread and then grind the hell out of these combos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHIR1p98WaQ#t=1m45s

Only thing I don't like about H-Ryougi is lack of meter management and is EXTREMELY knife dependent for pressure.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC5d__Kg_oQ
I think I'll use this for BnBs n shit... Loops look legit.

5.6k meterless knifeless knockdown corner combo.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on December 29, 2009, 02:05:39 AM
you're probably better off air throwing or using 5a/5b or j.6b/j.c as anti-air

Lol, this whole time I had no idea that she had a j.6b. I can't believe it. Back to training mode for me...

Edit:
If you're learning the sweep loop, keep in mind that these are the characters that it's impossible on (as far as I can tell): VAkiha, Hisui, Mech Hisui, Satsuki, Ryougi.

I also can't get the loop to go for more than 2-3 reps against Kohaku, Miyako, Nero, or Ciel. Seems to always end 1 rep early on White Len, and has very strange timings/easy accidental crossups on Aoko, Ries, and Tohno but otherwise works on them.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 29, 2009, 02:09:05 AM
I'll start by learning the basics posted in this thread and then grind the hell out of these combos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHIR1p98WaQ#t=1m45s

Only thing I don't like about H-Ryougi is lack of meter management and is EXTREMELY knife dependent for pressure.

She is mildly dependant on her knife for pressure, but her normals are pretty good by themselves. The only downside is that they take forever to come out. Without her knife, you can still end her blockstrings with 421c to whiff, 2a to whiff, 3c (safe on block), 5c (spaces you out) or if you're close enough to you knife, you can cancel a move like 5c into knife pickup and use that as a cancel while grabbing your knife. She's not all *that* reliant on knife pressure. It's just a really nice option to have.

As for meter management, it's pretty easy to bring your meter down by doing some sort of blockstring like 2a 5bb 2c 5c 2c 3c 236a 236a 214b 22c -> free mix-up (and it eats away around 50% of their guard meter). You can also use j.236c in some of the situations I mentioned earlier. Also, auto-heat isn't so bad. It means that you can go into heat while keeping them in a blockstring and utilize her arc drive more. Auto spark will also let you reset pressure if they manage to counterpoke/reversal you (unless it's baited).

Also, I don't know if it's the same for C and F, but you should keep in mind that aerials are pretty shitty against grounded opponents.

Edit:
you're probably better off air throwing or using 5a/5b or j.6b/j.c as anti-air

Lol, this whole time I had no idea that she had a j.6b. I can't believe it. Back to training mode for me...

You also might not know that off of an aerial tech, you can do 22/44/66 a/b/c for a move similar to the j.236 moves. They have some invulnerability, and you can combo off of the EX version if they wallslam.


2nd Edit
I really should start putting all this info on that other thread I made...  :-\
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on December 29, 2009, 02:21:47 AM
You also might not know that off of an aerial tech, you can do 22/44/66 a/b/c for a move similar to the j.236 moves. They have some invulnerability, and you can combo off of the EX version if they wallslam.

So that's how you do those. I've done them myself but always by accident. Happen to know if any of them are safe on block?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on December 29, 2009, 02:36:22 AM
Just a simple note. j6b has slightly further range horizontally and its hitbox is higher than jb. Other than that it's exactly the same as jb.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 29, 2009, 02:38:19 AM
You also might not know that off of an aerial tech, you can do 22/44/66 a/b/c for a move similar to the j.236 moves. They have some invulnerability, and you can combo off of the EX version if they wallslam.

So that's how you do those. I've done them myself but always by accident. Happen to know if any of them are safe on block?

Not sure if they're completely safe on block, but they do knock you back a bit. Actually, after checking it out, it seems like the A and B versions do not have startup invulerability. The B version seems to be strictly better than the a version, and the EX version does have invincibility on start up. They do prevent you from being able to anything afterwards (on the way down) though, so on whiff they'd be pretty terrible.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on December 29, 2009, 02:50:57 AM
The B version seems to be strictly better than the a version

B is definitely much faster, but if these are parallels to j.236a/b then the A version might be a high, which is at least something it would have over B/C.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 29, 2009, 02:56:48 AM
The B version seems to be strictly better than the a version

B is definitely much faster, but if these are parallels to j.236a/b then the A version might be a high, which is at least something it would have over B/C.

The A version is not an overhead. They have the same hit box, and I believe B also recovers faster, and has more active frames.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on December 29, 2009, 03:09:36 PM
Jeez H combos are tough. I've been practicing these

2A 5B 2B 5C 3C 623B 2C 3C 623B 2C 3C 22A 5B j(catch)ABC jBC 6E

2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A (2C 3C 623B)x3 2C 3C 5BB jAB j.BC623B (lands on knife)22A

(corner combo, can start from mid) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A 3C 2A (2C 3C 623B)x2 2C 3C 623A

2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 22A 2C 2369B(catch) 5BB 214A 22A jC airdash(catch) j.C22C j.BC j.BC236B

(corner loop) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A 3C (2A 2C 3C)x7 5A6AA 214A jBC jB6BC236B

I've been able to do the 2A 2C 3C loop and the double knife catch combo. 2C 3C 623B combos are tough, you gotta get the 2C out fast, and then delay each 3C for a bit then 623B instantly. Timing is really tough. I really want to learn the combo with the 623A ender for good oki and meterless 5.7k
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on December 29, 2009, 04:05:42 PM
Nice stuff.  Good luck practicing those loops Rei.  Master those, and you're already proficient in H  ;)

Gonna record some videos tonight.  Hopefully I'll get some good matches and post them tomorrow.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 29, 2009, 05:53:53 PM
Jeez H combos are tough. I've been practicing these

2A 5B 2B 5C 3C 623B 2C 3C 623B 2C 3C 22A 5B j(catch)ABC jBC 6E

2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A (2C 3C 623B)x3 2C 3C 5BB jAB j.BC623B (lands on knife)22A

(corner combo, can start from mid) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A 3C 2A (2C 3C 623B)x2 2C 3C 623A

2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 22A 2C 2369B(catch) 5BB 214A 22A jC airdash(catch) j.C22C j.BC j.BC236B

(corner loop) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A 3C (2A 2C 3C)x7 5A6AA 214A jBC jB6BC236B

I've been able to do the 2A 2C 3C loop and the double knife catch combo. 2C 3C 623B combos are tough, you gotta get the 2C out fast, and then delay each 3C for a bit then 623B instantly. Timing is really tough. I really want to learn the combo with the 623A ender for good oki and meterless 5.7k

In addition to grinding combos, also grind her blockstrings (IMO, much more important), since her pressure is pretty good. Since you have 22a, 2a, 421c, 5c, and 3c as blockstring enders/whiffs in conjunction with reverse beat, you can get pretty creative with blockstrings and trick you opponent with multiple frame traps. For example: 5b 5c 2a (whiff) 2b 2c (small delay) 3c (small delay) 22a -> mix up. And if they block correctly, you can still guard break and punish.

You also want to get very well acquainted with her normals. They're all very slow to start up and have moderate recovery time, but have good range, guard damage, and blockstun, so you should get used to them and experiment around. Otherwise you'll probably find yourself getting counterhit constantly.

Also get used to using teck like avoiding H-chars' auto spark by jump canceling mid-combo to j.236c, punishing H-chars' shield parries on reaction with 421a/b/c, and knife catch mix up/tricks.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on December 31, 2009, 03:20:40 AM
Posted about nine match vids with the guys from last Tuesday.  Sorry for not getting it up yesterday as promised. 

http://www.youtube.com/cphame (http://www.youtube.com/cphame)

I think I broke my stick, since you'll see me whiff 214A in a lot of my combos.  Execution could be better, too.  Actually, looking back at the vids, I look pretty terrible...constructive comments or suggestions?

Looking forward to seeing everyone else's vids too  :toot:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on December 31, 2009, 05:00:51 PM
Posted about nine match vids with the guys from last Tuesday.  Sorry for not getting it up yesterday as promised.  

http://www.youtube.com/cphame (http://www.youtube.com/cphame)

I think I broke my stick, since you'll see me whiff 214A in a lot of my combos.  Execution could be better, too.  Actually, looking back at the vids, I look pretty terrible...constructive comments or suggestions?

Looking forward to seeing everyone else's vids too  :toot:

Work on your block strings/corner pressure. You use 214b as a block string ender way too frequently. I would recommend not doing so at all, because on block, you lose all your pressure. Instead of ending with 214b, whiff cancel to 2a/421c or use 22a knife throw for +frames. Also noticed that you use 22c/214c a lot in combos, which isn't great. They don't really add any damage, and there are better uses for meter (22c in blockstrings/tick or whiff into Arc Drive). And you really should catch your knife at least some of the time. Aside from that, just work on basic stuff, like work on hit confirming all of your random hits into 3k combos, and spacing yourself better.

I should be able to record match vids this Sat provided everything works out, so I'll work on getting those uploaded once I have them.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on January 01, 2010, 10:52:48 AM
You use 214b as a block string ender way too frequently. I would recommend not doing so at all, because on block, you lose all your pressure. Instead of ending with 214b, whiff cancel to 2a/421c or use 22a knife throw for +frames. Also noticed that you use 22c/214c a lot in combos, which isn't great.

...what?  I don't use 214C in combos, if any at all.  And yeah, the reason why I used 214A_B so much was because I wasn't sure why I wasn't getting them after 6AAA, so I kept doing them (and random 2369A_B) to see if my stick wasn't broken.  Thats also why you'll see me just stand there or miss combos. 

Quote
And you really should catch your knife at least some of the time.

I did, actually.  Sorta.  Since it was just casuals, I was throwing it around a lot more often than usual to see how it feels.  I thought I caught it pretty often that night...

Thanks for the feedback though, sir.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on January 01, 2010, 11:03:03 AM
Heeey Shlowpoke taking the .gif i made for his avatar :(. lol It's awesome.

Anyway, grinding this combos, they're tough...  :emo:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on January 01, 2010, 11:12:17 AM
It can't be any tougher than C Ryougi  :psyduck:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on January 01, 2010, 08:51:04 PM
I'm pretty sure sweep loops are tougher than anything C has
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 01, 2010, 10:59:29 PM
I'm pretty sure sweep loops are tougher than anything C has

Yes.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on January 02, 2010, 03:57:49 AM
I'm pretty sure sweep loops are tougher than anything C has
Very much this ^^^

All of C's combos are relatively easy compared to H's and are easier to hit confirm as well...
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on January 02, 2010, 12:07:14 PM
I was just trying to encourage him  :emo:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 02, 2010, 09:06:20 PM
Okay, got some replays today, but Fraps + LCD screen = about delay 3, so there are only a few recorded matches, and the game play isn't amazing. It should give you a basic idea of how I play H-Ryougi though. Working on getting it uploaded.

Edit: Mostly uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/TheSnozzwangler

Lag play is pretty depressing. Won't be uploading much until we get a camcorder/better recording setup.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on January 03, 2010, 01:05:31 PM
Okay, got some replays today, but Fraps + LCD screen = about delay 3, so there are only a few recorded matches, and the game play isn't amazing. It should give you a basic idea of how I play H-Ryougi though. Working on getting it uploaded.

Edit: Mostly uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/TheSnozzwangler

Lag play is pretty depressing. Won't be uploading much until we get a camcorder/better recording setup.

Lag withstanding, I thought you were very solid.  I liked your use of IAD knife catch > air dodge.  That was most brilliant.  Your combo damage was kind of low; I think the highest I saw was about 3.9k?  Either way, it worked out most of the time but I feel if it wasn't due to the lag you could be doing a lot more damage.

And your knife-catching ability is very nice.  You focus on it a lot, sometimes sacrificing damage for a knife pickup.  All in all, good stuff sir.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 03, 2010, 02:26:41 PM
Okay, got some replays today, but Fraps + LCD screen = about delay 3, so there are only a few recorded matches, and the game play isn't amazing. It should give you a basic idea of how I play H-Ryougi though. Working on getting it uploaded.

Edit: Mostly uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/TheSnozzwangler

Lag play is pretty depressing. Won't be uploading much until we get a camcorder/better recording setup.

Lag withstanding, I thought you were very solid.  I liked your use of IAD knife catch > air dodge.  That was most brilliant.  Your combo damage was kind of low; I think the highest I saw was about 3.9k?  Either way, it worked out most of the time but I feel if it wasn't due to the lag you could be doing a lot more damage.

And your knife-catching ability is very nice.  You focus on it a lot, sometimes sacrificing damage for a knife pickup.  All in all, good stuff sir.

Yeah, lot of dropped combos and missed hit confirms on all sides. Also kind of lackluster blockstrings/movement (too linear, too many IADs) on my end. I drop the 2c tk j.236b -> corner combo a lot in these vids, which is my generally my most damaging bnb. I don't focus too much on loop combos, and focus more on knife play, though near the end of the vids, I just start throwing it out randomly which is pretty poor. I fish for counter hits a lot to get 2-3k damage combos, and zone with normals. I should probably be using 5a to anti-air more, and mixing up my knife catches and movement a bit (ex. 66 7 catch air dash, 66 air back dash catch, 9 catch, etc.).

Will hopefully post more vids once the next semester starts and someone brings a camcorder setup.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on January 03, 2010, 04:14:35 PM
You need to use j.236B at the end of certain air combos... Like if your knife is right below you and j.236B puts them to the other side of the stage, it's a good idea to do that instead of grab while doing a little more damage and picking up your knife.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 03, 2010, 04:23:09 PM
You need to use j.236B at the end of certain air combos... Like if your knife is right below you and j.236B puts them to the other side of the stage, it's a good idea to do that instead of grab while doing a little more damage and picking up your knife.

Actually kind of divided on this. I used to prefer ending with j.236b, but now, I'm finding that I really like air throw since it puts them in range of 5b/2b/5c and puts you in a pretty ideal range.

Edit: Was rewatching the vids, and I think I saw what you were talking about Rei, where in a round against Jeff, I was basically on top of the knife in the corner, and we were both at pretty low health. IMO, for that situation, air throwing was fine, especially for corner pressure (though I sorta wasted it by using a punishable rekka).
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on January 03, 2010, 04:39:59 PM
Air throws are better than ground throws for sure, since you end up closer to them.  But sometimes using 236B enders midscreen helps your corner game a lot better than air throws since you can harass with j.C and j.236B.  Even more so when you have your knife, as you can start spamming from a distance while they're far away (since you seem to have an affinity for knife throwing)  ;)
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on January 04, 2010, 12:43:58 AM
Heeey Shlowpoke taking the .gif i made for his avatar :(. lol It's awesome.

I made this gif myself and had no idea you had made a similar one. =(

I'm gonna go with 'great minds think alike.' Yeah. >.>

I'm finding that I really like air throw since it puts them in range of 5b/2b/5c and puts you in a pretty ideal range.

Careful with that. Airthrow is pretty meh as a midscreen combo ender once your opponent learns to backdash on wakeup. A lot of Ryougi's pokes are good but have really bad lag on whiff (prime example is 5b). Hell, sidestep even works. It's still really useful in the corner though whether you decide to keep them in the corner or airthrow the other way to stay close to them.

There were a bunch of things I liked about your Ryougi, but I'm only going to the post the criticism to save time/space. I apologize if any of these things were due to the lag:

1. Your combos need some work. Your stuff is reliable, but Ryougi can do a lot more damage than 3.5k. You seem to really like your knife and that's fine, but there are ways to get much higher damage and still keep it/get back to it.

2. You almost always go for the air dash catch after 22a. If you can react to a random knife hit and you're close enough, you can combo with 2c for some decent damage. If you've got enough room, you can even combo back to the knife and pick it up. Try 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b. You may have to super doublejump and/or throw in an extra move in the air string, but it should get you back to the knife with plenty of time to pick it up.

3. When you're guard-crushing you can start your rekkas with 236b instead of 236a to get closer so the last rekka doesn't whiff before 22c.

4. Careful with your arc drives. xD Throwing them out there is fun, I know. I do like the 2c, 2a, arc drive setup though. Another decent setup is to combo into a corner airthrow (putting yourself in the corner), and then sort of tickthrow them with 2a/arc drive.

I enjoyed your pre-game SF footsies against Satsuki. xD
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on January 20, 2010, 01:50:19 PM
Was messing around in practice mode.  Can someone explain this to me?  After doing this combo:

5BB 2B 5C 2C 6AAA 214A (wallslam) 5BB...air juggle

I can't seem to get the 5BB after 214A on smaller characters.  Only 5C works.  Are there weight ratios in this game?

Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: s4itox on January 20, 2010, 08:26:20 PM
It may be because you're inputting 5BB too late, since I find 5B has terrible startup. I used to whiff all the time doing 214A -> 5BB on C, but after I realised that I was just inputting too late I seemed to have a lot more success in doing it. Same principle should apply to H.

EDIT: As an afterthought, perhaps it might help to delay the 214A just the tiniest bit after 6AAA. That way the character has a little more time to fall, meaning less height to cover after the 214A and less chance of aerial recover before you can land your 5BB.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on January 20, 2010, 09:01:29 PM
5BB works on Warachia, but not on someone like say, Sion.  I don't even think I can delay it that long, because the combo turns invalid. 

I'm just looking for an easier alternative than the 2C >2369B >5BB >214A string, since it's incredibly difficult to land (for me).  But thanks, I'll give your suggestion a shot!
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: s4itox on January 20, 2010, 09:45:48 PM
It really depends on what height you end up landing the 214A, I guess. I find it relatively easy to connect 5BB on characters like Ryougi, Sion, etc whereas characters like Len pose a slightly more tricky challenge. But good luck, in any case  :)
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 24, 2010, 12:33:49 AM
More vids of my H-Ryougi on Ckosra's youtube account (http://www.youtube.com/ckosra#p/u). In the first couple of vids, the hp bar is cutoff because the cam wasn't setup well, and Ckosra seems to be having problems uploading 20 mins worth of vid footage of my H-Ryougi against YAT (essentially me getting raped hard for 20 mins). In the vids, I notice myself trying to poke too much, and backdashing too much midscreen. Any other criticism (for my H-Ryougi gameplay) is appreciated.

Edit: All vids are up now.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on January 24, 2010, 12:22:40 PM
Good to see you trying out some more difficult combos. :toot:

There are two tricks to make it easier to hit the 2c after a midscreen 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b combo:

1. The opponent should be as low as possible to the ground when the 623b hits. You can put the delay between the 2c and 3c or between the 3c and 623b, or even delay both a little. Whatever works for you. It'll take some getting used to.

2. When you input 623b, make sure you let go of the 'b' as soon as you possibly can. Since this is a charge move, Ryougi will run forward a bit if you hold the button for any length of time. Therefore, in order to be close enough to hit the 2c after 623b, you have to make sure the move goes off as quickly as possible.

If you're really good at this you can fit 3 or 4 623b's in one combo, but I find any more than 2 to be especially difficult. Seems even more difficult if you start the combo with 2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b instead of using 22a, for some reason.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 24, 2010, 01:35:42 PM
Good to see you trying out some more difficult combos. :toot:

There are two tricks to make it easier to hit the 2c after a midscreen 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b combo:

1. The opponent should be as low as possible to the ground when the 623b hits. You can put the delay between the 2c and 3c or between the 3c and 623b, or even delay both a little. Whatever works for you. It'll take some getting used to.

2. When you input 623b, make sure you let go of the 'b' as soon as you possibly can. Since this is a charge move, Ryougi will run forward a bit if you hold the button for any length of time. Therefore, in order to be close enough to hit the 2c after 623b, you have to make sure the move goes off as quickly as possible.

If you're really good at this you can fit 3 or 4 623b's in one combo, but I find any more than 2 to be especially difficult. Seems even more difficult if you start the combo with 2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b instead of using 22a, for some reason.

Yeah, I can do it in practice mode pretty consistantly, but not in matches.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on January 29, 2010, 05:48:42 PM
So guys, I found a ~5k corner combo that leads to knife mixup. :slowpoke:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TKj.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, (slight delay), 5c, 5bb, (slight delay*), 214c, j.b(whiff), (land and hold 4 for a few frames), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup

*you'll need this against most characters, so that they get closer to the corner so you don't cross up with 2c

Here's an easier version that does about 1k less damage:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, 214c, j.b(whiff), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 29, 2010, 08:17:08 PM
Shlowpoke, do you know which characters H-Ryougi's 2a 2c 3c loop does not work on? I've tested on a few chars, but haven't gone through the entire cast, and was wondering if you happened to have tested it already.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 30, 2010, 05:38:01 AM
So guys, I found a ~5k corner combo that leads to knife mixup. :slowpoke:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TKj.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, (slight delay), 5c, 5bb, (slight delay*), 214c, j.b(whiff), (land and hold 4 for a few frames), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup

*you'll need this against most characters, so that they get closer to the corner so you don't cross up with 2c

Here's an easier version that does about 1k less damage:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, 214c, j.b(whiff), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup

Also noticed that you can go for a sandoori if you end it early: 2a 5bb 2b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 2a (whiff) = meterless 4300 dmg + mix-up. Could be useful.

Edit: After testing this quite a bit, it actually seems really solid.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on January 30, 2010, 10:24:07 AM
Shlowpoke, do you know which characters H-Ryougi's 2a 2c 3c loop does not work on? I've tested on a few chars, but haven't gone through the entire cast, and was wondering if you happened to have tested it already.

Yep, I've tested it already. The characters I can't get it to work on at all are VAkiha, Hisui, Mech Hisui, Satsuki, and Ryougi. 2a->2c whiffs on everyone there except VAkiha, who has weird falling properties that make looping it impossible.

Aside from that, there are some characters where the loop ends after 2-3 reps. These are Miyako, Nero, Kohaku, and Ciel. White Len's ends 1 rep early compared to all the characters it works normally on. (Full loop is around 30 hits, so White Len's would be around 27.)

Aoko, Ries, Tohno, and Kouma's loops have extremely awkward delays and random crossups which make it really difficult to do on them. They're not worth trying it on (at least for me).

There are some timing variations but it generally works on everyone else. Something to keep in mind with the sweep loop is that it is very number-of-hits-specific. If you have too few or too many starting hits, it often won't work. If anybody has trouble starting the loop on any characters I didn't mention above, just ask.

Also noticed that you can go for a sandoori if you end it early: 2a 5bb 2b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 2a (whiff) = meterless 4300 dmg + mix-up. Could be useful.

This does seem like a pretty solid knifeless, meterless corner setup. If you're fast and your opponent respects it, you could even 22a after the 2a whiff for a crossup knife catch mixup... something you can't do with the corner setup I posted about above. Nice, Nandeyanen.

An option I'm thinking about but haven't tested could be to dash at them and push them very close to the corner on oki, then IAD j.c to hit behind them as they're waking up. You could also fake it and push them too far into the corner so you can't crossup. It could be a pretty good knifeless mixup.

The gimmicky roll crossup after the 2a whiff could work too. xD
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on January 30, 2010, 11:50:17 AM
I've tested knife mix-ups after the corner setup, and nearly all of the 2a (whiff) 22a/22b knife throw mix-up are completely dependent on whether your opponent stands or crouches as they get up. If they're crouching, basically all your moves will cross up, and unless you're falling on them with a j.c, your aerial attack will whiff. So, you end up with cross up j.c, cross up 2a, cross up throw, or cross up 4c. If they're standing, then you can basically do standard high/low/throw knife mix-ups with the addition of being able to do cross up 2a/4c.

You can also go for 2a (whiff) 63214a IABD high/low/throw mix-up which may/may not be good, and you can always just go for normal sandoori mix up.

2a 5bb 2b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 22a is also funny. Pretty sure you can get a high hit off of it by holding 4 after the knife throw, and doing a knife catch to j.b. I guess you could use it to move back by just IADing into the knife, and maybe get a better position, but I still don't think it'll really be useful. It's pretty humorous though.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on February 02, 2010, 03:31:39 PM
Updated the wiki with Shlowpoke's combos posted on page 1, as well as a few small things on her normals and specials.  Been working around finding other ticks into 41236C now that I have access to the game again.  I was inspired by Nandeyanen's 2C 2A tick and knife catch > land tick.  That was good stuff man.

I also have to change my mind about 214A, since I didn't realize it was air unblockable for the longest time.  If you whiff it or block, you can tick into her arc drive right away.  Same thing with 214B and 63214A.

63214A works pretty good in the corner.  I'm going to try to use it more often as a block string ender in the wall and see what happens.  22A and 22B are also great, but I can't seem to figure out which works best in a corner pressure situation, as they each varying degrees of IAD dash cancel sandoori setups.  Additionally, Ryougi seems much more fearsome when you're in heat mode due to her arc drive so that makes those options even more viable, since you can tick right away into after you've thrown the knife.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on February 02, 2010, 04:34:22 PM
Even though I like to use plenty of (bad) gimmicks, I'm still of the opinion that 63214a and 214a/b shouldn't really be used in blockstrings. People are pretty prone to mashing especially as they get closer to guard break. And iirc, 214a/b whiff if they're crouching (b hits if you're just the right distance away), then you get punished for like, 5k damage.

As for using 22a or 22b in blockstrings, I generally prefer 22a. It starts up and recovers faster which is better for blockstrings. You also get more knife catch options 22a, since you can move earlier. 22b hits low, which could be relevant, but not really, and just gives you less options altogether.

And when you're in heat, if you use your arc drive frequently they're more likely to jump out, so just start punishing jump outs with 5b or something and go into a full combo.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on February 02, 2010, 05:25:02 PM
You're not the only one who uses gimmicks.  I tend to favor a risky approach to keep people on their toes, so I try to squeeze in any hit off I can get.  Not really a great lifestyle choice  :psyduck:

I think the key difference for landing 214B is where you insert it, namely after 5C since it pushes out.  People get used to me doing 5C into 2C often, so throwing the overhead in there is somewhat of a 50/50.  Depending on their guard meter I might forsake that option and just go for 236 rekka series into 22C, but I don't really like throwing the knife unless there's some kind of payback for dropping it. 

63214A looks like 214B on startup, so it confuses them to block high.  That's where I considered inputting 63214A to keep the momentum going, as it recovers faster than 214B on block and still gives an option to either a) continue ground pressure with 2A, b) jump IAD sandoori for the overhead / low 2A mixup, or c) tick into arc drive if in heat.

Either way I still need to throw this against some friends to see how well it works. 
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on February 02, 2010, 05:36:29 PM
Also, I don't think I've mentioned it yet on here, but after a midscreen blockstring -> 22c, you can do the 66+ab roll and get a cross up 2a. Gimmicks.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on February 02, 2010, 06:09:05 PM
 :slowpoke:

Ryougi's arc drive (assuming the person has their back to the wall) extends all the way to right below the timer, so as soon as you see someone revert back to neutral state from guard stun, it's instant.  Kinda like MvC2's Zangief's spd in terms of range, but less cheesy.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on February 02, 2010, 06:17:56 PM
:slowpoke:

Ryougi's arc drive (assuming the person has their back to the wall) extends all the way to right below the timer, so as soon as you see someone revert back to neutral state from guard stun, it's instant.  Kinda like MvC2's Zangief's spd in terms of range, but less cheesy.

It doesn't reach quite that far. Sabator tested the range for F-Ryougi, which should be the same.

http://i25.tinypic.com/6j24u8.jpg also here is the max range of her AD
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on February 02, 2010, 07:02:09 PM
It's also not instant. The AAD is, whereas the AD has around 8 frame startup.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on February 02, 2010, 07:21:24 PM
It's also not instant. The AAD is, whereas the AD has around 8 frame startup.

The AAD is instant? So that means if you tick into it, they can't jump out, and have to use a move with full body invincibility on start up to avoid it?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on February 02, 2010, 07:24:56 PM
IIRC there is no startup on the AAD. Like F-Koumas 214C. If you aren't already in an grab invincible state, you get screwed.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on February 02, 2010, 07:43:59 PM
Also realized that AAD only applies to C and F Ryougi. I'm actually wondering if H-Ryougi's AD just has the same properties as the other grooves' ADs (aside from its damage).
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on February 02, 2010, 07:47:49 PM
Yeah, sadly H can't utilize it. I'm pretty sure the ranges on the AD are the same across the board. I'd test right now but I lended my game to a friend so he could practice.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on February 02, 2010, 08:07:16 PM
I guess as soon as she hunches down, there's no getting out.  You barely even really see the hunch animation in the AAD version.  Crazy.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on February 02, 2010, 08:09:42 PM
Also be grateful that you can't jump after the flash. You can jump out of C-Kouma 214C  :prinny:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on February 21, 2010, 09:51:26 PM
Yeah after fighting against F-Ryougi and seeing Nandeyanen's H-Ryougi. I'm definitely dabbling a lot more with H.

Btw, grats on top4 Nandeyanen. Though I didn't see many sweep loops, but instead you went for easier combos which were solid enough. Knife catchups/confirms were really nice and definitely make playing quite a bit easier.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on February 22, 2010, 05:45:23 AM
Yeah after fighting against F-Ryougi and seeing Nandeyanen's H-Ryougi. I'm definitely dabbling a lot more with H.

Btw, grats on top4 Nandeyanen. Though I didn't see many sweep loops, but instead you went for easier combos which were solid enough. Knife catchups/confirms were really nice and definitely make playing quite a bit easier.

Thanks! And yeah, I wasn't comfortable enough with the timing of the sweep loop for characters outside of Warachia, V.Sion, Arc, and Akiha to go for the sweep loop in the tourney. You don't even really need the loop to get solid damage, it's just great for meter gain.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on February 22, 2010, 08:38:25 AM
Yeah after fighting against F-Ryougi and seeing Nandeyanen's H-Ryougi. I'm definitely dabbling a lot more with H.

Btw, grats on top4 Nandeyanen. Though I didn't see many sweep loops, but instead you went for easier combos which were solid enough. Knife catchups/confirms were really nice and definitely make playing quite a bit easier.

Thanks! And yeah, I wasn't comfortable enough with the timing of the sweep loop for characters outside of Warachia, V.Sion, Arc, and Akiha to go for the sweep loop in the tourney. You don't even really need the loop to get solid damage, it's just great for meter gain.

Though I would assume meter gain for H is VERY important :/

I've seen that H-Kohaku combos give about 100% Meter for advanced combos which makes her a bitch to kill. generally gives you a lot more HP. I love your 22A delay IAD blockstrings though. I didn't think that 22A had that much hitstun
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on February 22, 2010, 09:18:29 PM
Yeah, good shit Nandeyanen!  Glad someone's out repping H Ryougi as hard as you are man.  Awesome stuff.  Love that IAD knife catch into AIR THROW.  That was hawt!  Seriously though, you are hands down the best Half moon player out there.  Can't wait to meet all of you Ryougi players at evo  :fap:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nas on February 24, 2010, 11:08:11 PM
Yeah after fighting against F-Ryougi and seeing Nandeyanen's H-Ryougi. I'm definitely dabbling a lot more with H.

Btw, grats on top4 Nandeyanen. Though I didn't see many sweep loops, but instead you went for easier combos which were solid enough. Knife catchups/confirms were really nice and definitely make playing quite a bit easier.

somehow i feel sad and happy at the same time!!!

i feel H is defeinetly the best of the Ryougi.. but she doesn't fit me like F does... i just taken quite liking ( AND STRAIGHT FOWARD PROCESS) but that is most defenitely good shit in repping quite possibly the best moon for ryougi
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on February 25, 2010, 07:23:49 PM
Yeah after fighting against F-Ryougi and seeing Nandeyanen's H-Ryougi. I'm definitely dabbling a lot more with H.

Btw, grats on top4 Nandeyanen. Though I didn't see many sweep loops, but instead you went for easier combos which were solid enough. Knife catchups/confirms were really nice and definitely make playing quite a bit easier.

somehow i feel sad and happy at the same time!!!

i feel H is defeinetly the best of the Ryougi.. but she doesn't fit me like F does... i just taken quite liking ( AND STRAIGHT FOWARD PROCESS) but that is most defenitely good shit in repping quite possibly the best moon for ryougi


I agree with this 100%

I feel like H is the best Ryougi, but I love playing C. H's 22A is just so strong, and adding the knife catch with F-Ryougi's range and Rebeating. Godlike. Not just that, but loops give incredible amounts of circuit.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Lane on February 27, 2010, 12:12:03 PM
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A > 2C 3C 5C 5BB > j.B j.C > dj.B j.C > 236b

does this combo work on the whole cast?



2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 2c 22a j.bc ad j.c dj.bc air throw

2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6AAA > j.B j.C > dj.B j.C > 236B

anyone know how much meter you gain from both of these combos? Would like to compare.

Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: arvy on February 27, 2010, 01:52:20 PM
I agree with you guys. I love playing F like Nas. But, having all the benefits with H is pretty awesome.   But, I guess it's just what suits your style best. I'm not sure if CC is going to change anything. But, I'm sure we'll all be learning new stuff as the more players expands.

But, I think all the moons of Ryougi are pretty awesome in their own regards.

Also, Congrats  Nandeyanen even though it's kinda late.

I wish all of you guys luck at WB. Since it's going on right now.

Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on February 28, 2010, 12:56:24 PM
2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A > 2C 3C 5C 5BB > j.B j.C > dj.B j.C > 236b

does this combo work on the whole cast?
Yes, it does. However, it's difficult to land on all characters when you start the combo from point blank. If you're really close you have to delay the 2C so that Ryougi's body pushes them forward before it connects, otherwise you'll cross them up. The timing for 2C 3C varies a little per character too. For example, it's extremely delayed against Ries and really weird on Tohno.


2a 2b 5b 5c 3c 2c 22a j.bc ad j.c dj.bc air throw

2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 6AAA > j.B j.C > dj.B j.C > 236B

anyone know how much meter you gain from both of these combos? Would like to compare
I've played around with ad in her air combos before and wrote it off from some reason. I think it was a lot more inconsistent in H than it is in C. If that actually works, then I have no idea about the meter difference. =/
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Lane on March 01, 2010, 03:45:06 PM
Yup, it does...I love the air dash addition  :toot:

I just wanted to know because of one not having the knife, and the other being much easier. So, If I wanted guaranteed damage I could go for that if I wasn't in worry for meter. I guess I'll practice the timing for the first one.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: COD3player on March 01, 2010, 03:58:12 PM
I've recently been playing H-Ryougi (derp) and I watched the combo vids to get an idea of what she can do. Is it really necessary to use meter for her combos? The way I see it, considering her weak defensive options (no reversal and low health), meter is best reserved for shield bunkers (this is Half moon after all), or for Max mode where you can set up her arc drive or auto spark.

I was wondering about using either 6AAA or 22A for extending combos. I guess it really depends. 6AAA for when you have no knife, 22A when you're staggering strings which makes for a nice and easy hitconfirm.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on March 01, 2010, 04:50:11 PM
22C comes out in 0-1 frames, it's very strong and definitely a good meter use.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: LivingShadow on March 01, 2010, 05:57:43 PM
I've recently been playing H-Ryougi (derp) and I watched the combo vids to get an idea of what she can do. Is it really necessary to use meter for her combos? The way I see it, considering her weak defensive options (no reversal and low health), meter is best reserved for shield bunkers (this is Half moon after all), or for Max mode where you can set up her arc drive or auto spark.
Considering what I know about H-Ryougi the meter isn't really necessary but it does tack on some extra damage.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 01, 2010, 08:56:59 PM
I've recently been playing H-Ryougi (derp) and I watched the combo vids to get an idea of what she can do. Is it really necessary to use meter for her combos? The way I see it, considering her weak defensive options (no reversal and low health), meter is best reserved for shield bunkers (this is Half moon after all), or for Max mode where you can set up her arc drive or auto spark.
Keep in mind that a lot of the combos in the vids are impractical and are just meant to fit the music.

I wouldn't say it's absolutely necessary to use meter in her combos. It's true that meter used in the right places can extend your damage by a decent amount, but in real matches that's almost never why I use it. The main thing I aim for is to keep my meter sitting around 100% so that I have bunker available to me (since her defensive options are awful) and so I don't waste heat when I don't need to heal.

There are two easy places in combos to keep your meter down:
1) End combos with j.236c
2) Use 214c after a 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb
Example: 2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, 214c, j.b(whiff), land, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, airthrow

I was wondering about using either 6AAA or 22A for extending combos. I guess it really depends. 6AAA for when you have no knife, 22A when you're staggering strings which makes for a nice and easy hitconfirm.
22a is necessary for pretty much all her big damage combos.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on March 02, 2010, 11:43:55 AM
I've recently been playing H-Ryougi (derp) and I watched the combo vids to get an idea of what she can do. Is it really necessary to use meter for her combos? The way I see it, considering her weak defensive options (no reversal and low health), meter is best reserved for shield bunkers (this is Half moon after all), or for Max mode where you can set up her arc drive or auto spark.

I was wondering about using either 6AAA or 22A for extending combos. I guess it really depends. 6AAA for when you have no knife, 22A when you're staggering strings which makes for a nice and easy hitconfirm.

I agree with your thoughts on her meter usage. Her ex-moves aren't really useful in combos, since most of them prorate your damage to nearly nothing. The only one that could be mildly useful for extending damage is 214c, which just adds like 100-400 damage to her corner combo, which could matter (I guess). The other semi-useful ex-moves are 22c, which you can use to extend a blockstring and go for a guard break, and 236c, which you can use in an OTG to add a little bit of damage. I rarely use any ex-moves in matches (except accidentally).

I don't actively manage my meter (I should probably try that). However, since Ryougi's combos (and sometimes blockstrings) generate a lot of meter (you can generate over 100 meter in a combo), so regardless of whether or not you manage your meter, you'll probably be in heat, or sitting on 100+ meter pretty frequently.

You should extend combos with 22a if possible (if your execution allows for it). 22a lets you capitalize off of random ground hit confirms. For example, off of a 5b hit confirm you can do: 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c 5c 5bb j.bc sdj.b6bc j.236b land 22a (pickup), which adds a lot of damage and meter compared to what you would have gotten without the 22a.

If you have no knife, and are too far from the wall to go for a wall combo, you can either go for 2c 5a6aa -> combo for far hit confirms, or go for a 3c 623b -> combo if you get a hit confirm up close.

Edit: Forgot to mention that you can also use 5a6aa on some (standing) characters to start the 2a 2c 3c loop.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 06, 2010, 02:28:47 PM
H-Ryougi Meterless Guard Crush String against H-Moon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5TR5w6eHko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5TR5w6eHko)

:slowpoke:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on March 06, 2010, 03:56:34 PM
Nice!  Btw grats on breaking top nine at winter brawl.  I watched your vids and was really impressed!  I think I saw you pull out a new combo there too  :o

Back to the video -- wouldn't they be able to jump out after the knife, or backdash cancel during the stagger parts?  I had that problem yesterday a few times where people would just randomly backdash and completely avoid a run up 5B or knife toss.  It was a little frustrating.

Also since its kind of related, how does everyone feel about using 5BB versus 5B?  I'm weighing whether or not to stick it in block strings since it adds more pushback overall, and sometimes off of a random 5BB hit from somewhere around max distance 2B doesn't connect, killing the combo.  It only adds a little more damage on hit, and a little more damage on guard meter on block.

Worth it?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 06, 2010, 05:01:07 PM
Nice!  Btw grats on breaking top nine at winter brawl.  I watched your vids and was really impressed!  I think I saw you pull out a new combo there too  :o

Back to the video -- wouldn't they be able to jump out after the knife, or backdash cancel during the stagger parts?  I had that problem yesterday a few times where people would just randomly backdash and completely avoid a run up 5B or knife toss.  It was a little frustrating.
Thanks. ^^

Yeah, there are two points in the block string where the opponent gets to move and try to escape. The first point is after the first 3c. You could shield, backdash, or sidestep to avoid 3c -> 5b, but there's definitely not enough time to jump or throw out a move. The second point is after knife throw. Same situation there, except it's usually not a good idea to backdash in the corner.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on March 07, 2010, 06:07:29 PM
Also since its kind of related, how does everyone feel about using 5BB versus 5B?  I'm weighing whether or not to stick it in block strings since it adds more pushback overall, and sometimes off of a random 5BB hit from somewhere around max distance 2B doesn't connect, killing the combo.  It only adds a little more damage on hit, and a little more damage on guard meter on block.

Worth it?

Blockstrings are pretty free-form. Do whatever works. That being said, 5bb is fine in blockstrings. Off of a far hit confirm, you can just go into something like 5c 2c 5a6aa-> aerial combo.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on March 08, 2010, 09:11:36 AM
5BB with H-Ryougi is fine in a block string. Just remember not to use 3C or 4C for the blockstring. You can do 2B 5C or 2C afterwards so you should be fine.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 08, 2010, 11:25:09 AM
Just remember not to use 3C or 4C for the blockstring.

Why not 3C? It gives you frame advantage. I think it's probably one of H's best moves in pressure.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on March 08, 2010, 01:00:56 PM
Yeah, what's wrong with 3C and 4C?  3C is great like Shlowpoke mentioned, and 4C is an overhead that combos.  2C is unsafe though, why would you end blockstrings with that?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on March 08, 2010, 04:08:08 PM
Just remember not to use 3C or 4C for the blockstring.

Why not 3C? It gives you frame advantage. I think it's probably one of H's best moves in pressure.

You can use 3C in pressure if you want, but if you're using it after 5BB then you have to be sure of your distance from which you started since 5BB pushes them back pretty far. Also you need to pay attention to how they blocked (they get pushed back further if they stand block 5BB) and just a lot of factors. 5BB is ok for strings, but I personally thing 5B by itself gives you more options since it doesn't push your opponent back as much, allowing stuff like 5B 2B 5C 3C to connect.

Though you could always do 5BB 2B 5C 2C 3C as a string since 2C moves you forward, but if they get hit by 2C, won't 3C hit them OTG?

3C and 4C are fine for blockstrings, I  just prefer not to use them if you use 5BB in your blockstring (unless you do them immediately after) but 5B is a really good spacing tool.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: COD3player on March 08, 2010, 11:45:46 PM
You can use 2C in strings so long as you haven't used 2A yet, re-beating into 2A after 2C keeps you close to the opponent. If 2C connects, 3C will hit otg. Blockstrings are what I'm having the most trouble with right now because I think I'm doing them wrong. Most, if not, all of my strings start with 5BB, and I go from there. I'm not too sure how to get them to sit still for long after I've used the knife. Also, I was playing against H-Tohno and I dunno if it's just me, but he can mash his 2C to get out of gaps. Example, I'll do 5BB 3C, and he can mash 2C and HIT me before I can 5B again, even though 3C is supposed to be +frames. HIGHLY ANNOYING. Of course if you predict a 2C mash, you can normal jump at him with a j.C into combo. Yes, his 2C has enough recovery where you can NORMAL jump and hit him before he has recovered. Or you can iad since it's faster and if they choose not to match, they have less time to react. But yeah. I need some example strings to work with so I can branch out from there. :psyduck:

I think this was covered earlier in the thread, but midscreen, if you do knife throw and then try to go for 2C into stuff, you get crossed up sometimes. What causes this exactly? Even if I predict the crossup and compensate on the input for 3C, the 3C will just go in the wrong direction and I look like a dumbass.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on March 09, 2010, 09:43:12 AM
You can use 2C in strings so long as you haven't used 2A yet, re-beating into 2A after 2C keeps you close to the opponent. If 2C connects, 3C will hit otg. Blockstrings are what I'm having the most trouble with right now because I think I'm doing them wrong. Most, if not, all of my strings start with 5BB, and I go from there. I'm not too sure how to get them to sit still for long after I've used the knife. Also, I was playing against H-Tohno and I dunno if it's just me, but he can mash his 2C to get out of gaps. Example, I'll do 5BB 3C, and he can mash 2C and HIT me before I can 5B again, even though 3C is supposed to be +frames. HIGHLY ANNOYING. Of course if you predict a 2C mash, you can normal jump at him with a j.C into combo. Yes, his 2C has enough recovery where you can NORMAL jump and hit him before he has recovered. Or you can iad since it's faster and if they choose not to match, they have less time to react. But yeah. I need some example strings to work with so I can branch out from there. :psyduck:

I think this was covered earlier in the thread, but midscreen, if you do knife throw and then try to go for 2C into stuff, you get crossed up sometimes. What causes this exactly? Even if I predict the crossup and compensate on the input for 3C, the 3C will just go in the wrong direction and I look like a dumbass.

1. 2c 3c will properly connect. If anything hits before the 2c though, then 3c will otg them.

2. I'm pretty sure 3c is +3f on block. With that in mind, H-Ryougi's 5b has 9f startup and H-Tohno's 2c has 7f start up. That means you need to do 5b immediately after 3c recovers to avoid trading with/losing to a (well timed) H-Tohno's 2c. There's no leniency for the timing.

3. For midscreen 22a 2c combos (I assume you're going for 2a 2b 5bb 5c 2c 22a 2c 3c 623b 2c 3c -> etc.) , if you can't get the timing down for the character, or if it doesn't seem possible for you to not cross up, you can go for:


or

If those don't work, then I'd just go for a cheap BnB and if possible, get them into the corner. If you wanted to go into a 2a 2c 3c loop, then those are sort of character specific. So, ask about a specific character. Currently, I don't really try to loop characters other than Akiha, Arc, Sion, V.Sion, and Warakia.

4. Like I mentioned before, Ryougi's blockstrings are pretty free-form. There are a few things that you should keep in mind with her block strings though:






You'll also want to incorporate a bunch of frame traps in her block string, as she doesn't have much mix up. Here's an example of a string with a number of resets in it (and I'm pretty sure this should work):

2a 2b 5b 3c (reset) 5b 2c 2a 3c (trap/reset) 5b 2c 2a (reset) 5b 2c 22a (reset) 5b 2c 3c (reset) 5bb 5c 22a (pickup/reset)
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: s4itox on March 13, 2010, 10:21:57 AM
Okay, so I've tried adding 2C 3C 623B into my H-Ryougi so my corner combo goes something like:
(j.C) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A (TK 236B) 5BB 214C j.Cwhiff 2C 3C 623B 2C 5C 5BB j.BC j.BC airthrow/236B.
 However, I have a lot of trouble at/after the 3C 623B bit. Sometimes the combo will connect properly and I get a nice beautiful valid 24 hit combo. Other times, the enemy will be able to air-tech from the 623B so my combo ends there. Other times, the enemy will hit the floor before I finish recovering from the 623B so my 2C ends up OTG-ing them.
 Is there any particular reason why this would be happening (eg. timing between 2C/3C/623B)? If so, is there any way I can fix it so that I can get a fairly consistent hitrate?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on March 13, 2010, 11:25:30 AM
Okay, so I've tried adding 2C 3C 623B into my H-Ryougi so my corner combo goes something like:
(j.C) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A (TK 236B) 5BB 214C j.Cwhiff 2C 3C 623B 2C 5C 5BB j.BC j.BC airthrow/236B.
 However, I have a lot of trouble at/after the 3C 623B bit. Sometimes the combo will connect properly and I get a nice beautiful valid 24 hit combo. Other times, the enemy will be able to air-tech from the 623B so my combo ends there. Other times, the enemy will hit the floor before I finish recovering from the 623B so my 2C ends up OTG-ing them.
 Is there any particular reason why this would be happening (eg. timing between 2C/3C/623B)? If so, is there any way I can fix it so that I can get a fairly consistent hitrate?

You might have to delay the 3C a bit, i gotta check it. 2C is an untechable sweep and 3C IS techable. also make sure you're doing 623B immediately after 3C. You could probably omit the 3C. Though this is just looking at the combo, not doing it yet. Also, j.C whiffs after 214C? I thought it hit them :psyduck:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 13, 2010, 01:04:19 PM
Okay, so I've tried adding 2C 3C 623B into my H-Ryougi so my corner combo goes something like:
(j.C) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 22A (TK 236B) 5BB 214C j.Cwhiff 2C 3C 623B 2C 5C 5BB j.BC j.BC airthrow/236B.

I'm going to assume that you meant 214c j.bwhiff, because j.c will almost always hit after a 214c in the corner.
Before I even get into the second part of the question, I'd like to try to discourage you from doing this combo. You're forcing a bunch of tight links on yourself and actually limiting the amount of damage you could be doing.

For example:
When I do the combo you described from 2a, with the TKj.236b, and end with airthrow, I get 5,049 damage on V.Sion. 24 hits for 100% meter and I lose my knife.

Compare that to this:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, airthrow.
5,046 damage on V.Sion. 20 hits for no meter and I lose the knife.
Basically the same damage, and you don't use 100% meter. I think you'll find it MUCH easier to pull off as well, since the TKj.236b after 22a and the 2c after 623b aren't there.
If you've got meter to burn, try this:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, 22a, 3c, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 5c, 5bb, 214c, j.bwhiff, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, airthrow.
Does about 100 more damage, 26 hits.

If you want a hard version:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TKj.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, delay, 5c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 236a236a236a, knife pickup.
5,503 damage to V.Sion, and you get to pick up the knife.
Meter burn version:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TKj.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, delay, 5c, 22a, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, 214c, j.bwhiff, 2c, 3c, 623b, 236a236a236a, knife pickup.
5,796 damage to V.Sion.

However, I have a lot of trouble at/after the 3C 623B bit. Sometimes the combo will connect properly and I get a nice beautiful valid 24 hit combo. Other times, the enemy will be able to air-tech from the 623B so my combo ends there. Other times, the enemy will hit the floor before I finish recovering from the 623B so my 2C ends up OTG-ing them.
 Is there any particular reason why this would be happening (eg. timing between 2C/3C/623B)? If so, is there any way I can fix it so that I can get a fairly consistent hitrate?
2c after a 623b in the corner is a pretty tight timing no matter what, and it kind of depends on how you did the 3c to 623b. If there are already a lot of hits in the combo like yours, you'll want 623b to go off asap after the 3c to keep them high so you have enough time to 2c. The trick to that is the input 623b asap after 3c, and make sure you let go of the b button as quickly as possible, so you don't get any charge-up time.

But even then, if you're off by even a little bit they'll get to airtech. If your 623b hit relatively late after the 3c, i.e. right before they hit the ground, then you probably won't have enough time to 2c them after the 623b and they'll groundtech. So the moral of the story is to not try it in the first place when there's a better alternative.

On a related note, that kind of late timing is very good when you have few hits in your combo, like the midscreen 623b combos. Delayed 623b after 3c, tap the b so you don't get any charge, and they should be low enough and you should still be close enough to hit a follow-up 2c.

Btw 3c is definitely untechable knockdown.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: COD3player on March 13, 2010, 02:34:15 PM
I'm having some issues. Sometimes when I do 5BB, 2B, 5C, 2C, 22A, 3C, 623B... midscreen, I'll sometimes be too far away to relaunch with a 2C. What gives? Also against Tohno in the corner, if I do ...2C, TK 236B, then try 5BB 214A, I will get crossed up and 236A will come out instead. afaik he's the only one that I have this problem and I can't find away to adjust. And even in the event that the 214A hits him, he's oftentimes too high for a 2C pickup. ??? I'm not using 2A in my ground strings if that makes any difference.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 13, 2010, 03:08:54 PM
I'm having some issues. Sometimes when I do 5BB, 2B, 5C, 2C, 22A, 3C, 623B... midscreen, I'll sometimes be too far away to relaunch with a 2C. What gives?

It's easy to make this mistake when you do 3c directly after 22a. You probably aren't too far away, the problem is more likely that they're too high. It's hard the see the difference.

Delay your 623b after 3c so that it hits just before they hit the ground, but make sure that you tap the b in 623b so you get absolutely no extra forward movement (due to 623b being chargeable). That way you make sure they're low enough and that you're close enough.


Also against Tohno in the corner, if I do ...2C, TK 236B, then try 5BB 214A, I will get crossed up and 236A will come out instead. afaik he's the only one that I have this problem and I can't find away to adjust. And even in the event that the 214A hits him, he's oftentimes too high for a 2C pickup. ??? I'm not using 2A in my ground strings if that makes any difference.

Yeah this happens against Kohaku sometimes too. The best thing you can do is make sure you TKj.236b with 7 or 8 instead of 9 so you stay as far away from the corner as possible. The timing of the 5bb afterward might also have something to do with it, but I'm not sure if that really affects it or not.

I just tested it on Tohno to make sure, and it definitely still works on him. If he's too high for a 2c pickup after 214a, then you probably did 5bb too soon.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: COD3player on March 13, 2010, 03:25:05 PM
It's easy to make this mistake when you do 3c directly after 22a. You probably aren't too far away, the problem is more likely that they're too high. It's hard the see the difference.

Delay your 623b after 3c so that it hits just before they hit the ground, but make sure that you tap the b in 623b so you get absolutely no extra forward movement (due to 623b being chargeable). That way you make sure they're low enough and that you're close enough.

Yeah this happens against Kohaku sometimes too. The best thing you can do is make sure you TKj.236b with 7 or 8 instead of 9 so you stay as far away from the corner as possible. The timing of the 5bb afterward might also have something to do with it, but I'm not sure if that really affects it or not.

I just tested it on Tohno to make sure, and it definitely still works on him. If he's too high for a 2c pickup after 214a, then you probably did 5bb too soon.
What I try to do after 22A, is delay the 3C. I'm not sure if that makes a difference but you're right, it's really hard to tell if I'm too far away vs the opponent being too high.

For the corner combo, I always use 8 for the TK j.236B, but I'll try 7 against him. As far as 5BB into 214A is concerned, I didn't know it was possible to do it too early. Because from what I've tried, if I wait even slightly, they tend to tech out. I'm probably waiting too long in that case, but the window seems pretty small either way.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 13, 2010, 03:33:17 PM
What I try to do after 22A, is delay the 3C. I'm not sure if that makes a difference but you're right, it's really hard to tell if I'm too far away vs the opponent being too high.

That'll help, but 3c does send them a little bit higher, and with that few hits in the combo it could be enough to throw it off. I still recommend learning to delay the 623b.

For the corner combo, I always use 8 for the TK j.236B, but I'll try 7 against him. As far as 5BB into 214A is concerned, I didn't know it was possible to do it too early. Because from what I've tried, if I wait even slightly, they tend to tech out. I'm probably waiting too long in that case, but the window seems pretty small either way.

It's definitely possible to do 5bb too early after TKj.236b. It's hard to describe an ideal height with words, so I'm just going to say that you usually have to hit the 5b at the last possible moment before they can tech out. You want them as low as possible when the 5bb connects so it's easier to pick them up with 2c. While you're delaying you could try holding 4 so that you get that little extra distance to make the crossup less likely.

EDIT: I meant TKj.236b instead of 214a when I was talking about 5bb. I fixed it.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on March 13, 2010, 03:38:14 PM
I don't think the problem is the tk input as much as it might be that you're either inputting it much too early or are significantly way too close to the corner.  Pressing 5BB right when you see yourself land from tk j.236B works for me.  You shouldn't have to need to vary your tk input, just stick with 2369.  Otherwise it'll throw off your game during a real match.

Did some corner blockstring practice today, found out that 5B 2C 2A is a good troll string.  Never pushes out.  You can do variations like:


Etc, etc.  But in the likely chance you get pushed out too much, you can come back to this string to stay on the inside.  It's not foolproof, but it helps a bit better than walking or dashing in a small bit to continue pressure (or using knives).  Rapidly kills Crescent guard meter like nothing  :V
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on March 13, 2010, 08:03:57 PM
I don't think the problem is the tk input as much as it might be that you're either inputting it much too early or are significantly way too close to the corner.  Pressing 5BB right when you see yourself land from tk j.236B works for me.  You shouldn't have to need to vary your tk input, just stick with 2369.  Otherwise it'll throw off your game during a real match.

It's specifically a problem regarding Tohno Shiki/Kohaku because of their awkward aerial hit boxes.  I actually experimented with this a bit, and I'm pretty sure that the direction you tk the tkj.236b doesn't really matter, j.236b will move you forward regardless.  The things that I think contribute to the inconsistency of the cross up are:


It is pretty irritating to combo Tohno Shiki, and the only advice I can really offer is that if you can get it to consistently to work one way or another (cross up/no cross up), then just stick with that.  You can probably also input 214a/236a on reaction after the 5bb if you're good at that sort of thing.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: COD3player on March 14, 2010, 01:57:25 PM
Having to recognize whether the 214/236 input is crossed up is already a mother bitch in training mode and would probably be even more of a nightmare to do on the fly in the heat of a match. When I'm in training mode I tend to do most of my combos at point blank, but that's not always the case in matches. But knowing that there are so many factors that can cause the combo to go wrong, I think it might be smarter to opt for a different combo if you still have the knife. :-\
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CT_Warrior on March 14, 2010, 04:26:49 PM
What have you H-Ryougi players got to stop jump airdodge after 3C besides knife? Is it a weakness?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on March 14, 2010, 04:30:04 PM
What have you H-Ryougi players got to stop jump airdodge after 3C besides knife? Is it a weakness?

That's...really rare to hear someone try.  If they jump, just get that 5BB ready for them when they land; either that or you can try to pre-emptive anti-air with 214A which is really risky.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on March 14, 2010, 05:32:13 PM
What have you H-Ryougi players got to stop jump airdodge after 3C besides knife? Is it a weakness?
I'm fairly sure that a properly-timed 5b will hit before the opponent gets airborne if they try to jump after 3c. Tight timing though. I can't say for sure though unless someone knows exactly how many +frames 3c gives.

Ground sidestep will definitely work though.

EDIT: Okay, I just tested this with a person playing V.Sion holding 8 after 3c connects. I never once got 5b to hit while she was still on the ground, so I'm going to say that 8-jump air-sidestep would probably work if timed well.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on March 14, 2010, 06:10:57 PM
What have you H-Ryougi players got to stop jump airdodge after 3C besides knife? Is it a weakness?
I'm fairly sure that a properly-timed 5b will hit before the opponent gets airborne if they try to jump after 3c. Tight timing though. I can't say for sure though unless someone knows exactly how many +frames 3c gives.

Ground sidestep will definitely work though.

3c is +3 frames. 5b has 8 frames start up.  Jump start up may be character and direction specific, but according to FrameDisplay, the it ranges between 3-6 frames.  So, if the opponent holds up after a 3c, and you hit 5b at the first available opportunity after 3c fully recovers, you'll hit them on the 6th frame.  Depending on their jump start up, you should either counter hit them on the ground (during jump start up), or hit them in the air (1st - 2nd frame into their jump.  I'm not sure whether or not there is a minimum height for air dodge, but jump air dodging is significantly stricter, and probably much worse than just ground dodging or back dashing.

Also, CT_Warrior, didn't I already explain this to you on Friday?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CT_Warrior on March 14, 2010, 08:03:29 PM
It's hard for me to input frame data on the go like that if I'm unfamiliar with the character, so whatever you said on Friday just went by me.  :psyduck:

I tested it in training mode multiple times. Doing instant j2E is like doing Akiha's instant j2C. I'll just assume that most of the cast has at least a 4 or 5 frame directional jump. You should have at least one or two frames to get out if Ryougi hits frame-perfect. It's rare that Ryougi would perfectly time that 5B, so it should be in your favor to get out this way if you can react to uncanceled 3C.

That's a depressingly tight string though, and mixing up your options would make it hard to get out of. Seems that ex-guarding is the way to go.
I found that EX-dust works though. :D
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shiki on March 17, 2010, 10:45:30 AM
I found something that may or may not be useful but while running and pressing E, Ryougi does a roll that goes pretty far actually. Haven't really tested if it's invincible or not but it can also be used to avoid certain attacks it seems.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on March 17, 2010, 01:36:27 PM
I found something that may or may not be useful but while running and pressing E, Ryougi does a roll that goes pretty far actually. Haven't really tested if it's invincible or not but it can also be used to avoid certain attacks it seems.

Thanks, although it's already been posted in the wrong section.  Makes me wonder if it was originally her dodge animation, since it looks so similar to Kohaku's roll.  Wonder how good it would've been...
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: s4itox on March 17, 2010, 06:12:28 PM
You can also use it to crossup if you're close enough.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on April 02, 2010, 01:16:10 PM
You can also use it to crossup if you're close enough.

I don't recommend this at all. The recovery is pretty bad, EX knife won't cover the roll at all (you can mash out for free), and due to that, rolling to the other side for oki isn't very good either. It's not a very slick move, sadly.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on April 02, 2010, 01:23:27 PM
You can also use it to crossup if you're close enough.

I don't recommend this at all. The recovery is pretty bad, EX knife won't cover the roll at all (you can mash out for free), and due to that, rolling to the other side for oki isn't very good either. It's not a very slick move, sadly.

You can use it in some oki setups.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: s4itox on April 03, 2010, 08:04:16 PM
You can also use it to crossup if you're close enough.

I don't recommend this at all. The recovery is pretty bad, EX knife won't cover the roll at all (you can mash out for free), and due to that, rolling to the other side for oki isn't very good either. It's not a very slick move, sadly.

I don't recommend it either, but you can still do it, for those who are interested.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: MissedFRC on April 04, 2010, 11:21:23 AM
You can also use it to crossup if you're close enough.

I don't recommend this at all. The recovery is pretty bad, EX knife won't cover the roll at all (you can mash out for free), and due to that, rolling to the other side for oki isn't very good either. It's not a very slick move, sadly.

You can use it in some oki setups.

I haven't seen any yet. :(
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on April 04, 2010, 11:45:58 AM
I haven't seen any yet. :(

Corner:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK j.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 2a (whiff), dash into corner and 6a+b.

Try to push them almost all the way to the corner before you roll. Ryougi's body will cover them and make it really hard to tell if she pushed you all the way to the corner or not.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Nandeyanen on April 04, 2010, 12:01:23 PM
I haven't seen any yet. :(

Corner:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK j.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 2a (whiff), dash into corner and 6a+b.

Try to push them almost all the way to the corner before you roll. Ryougi's body will cover them and make it really hard to tell if she pushed you all the way to the corner or not.

You can also use 421c if you don't want the reverse beat penalty (mainly for an arc drive setup), but it's a slower whiff.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: s4itox on April 12, 2010, 08:58:12 AM
Hmm, corner combo. Req 100% meter and knife.
(j.C) 2A 5B(5BB) 2B 5C 2C tk236B 5BB 214C j.Bwhiff 2C 3C 623B 2C (slightly delay)5C 22A j.B(6B)C dj.BC 236B. 21/22 hits, 5460/5465 damage on C-Ries.
Tested with landing the j.C, ignored the first 5BB, and 21/22 hits depending on whether I threw in the j6B.

Considering j.C 2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 22A 3C 5BB 214A 2C 5C 5BB 214C j.Bwhiff 2C 3C 5C 5BB j.BC dj.BC 236B - 26 hits, 5591 on C-Ries. Same amount of meter, and still lose the knife.
Possible alternative if you feel like showing off, and have impeccable timing?

EDIT: As an afterthought, looking at the majority of my posts in this thread, boy I sure like to come up with some retarded combos.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on April 27, 2010, 02:56:43 PM
I haven't seen any yet. :(

Corner:
2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TK j.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, 2a (whiff), dash into corner and 6a+b.

Try to push them almost all the way to the corner before you roll. Ryougi's body will cover them and make it really hard to tell if she pushed you all the way to the corner or not.

Damn I'm not the only one who found this one out :(. You can just get 2C and not whiff to still get meaty 2A on both sides.

There are also different kinds of mixups you can do off of it. Not just 6AB AB, but you can also do a high-low mixup with j.C or 2A. Though with 6AB you technically have a 3 way mixup (since you CAN get 4C meaty when you cross over only.) The mixup is very strong, especially since the command roll stays on your opponent's body whether or not you cross them up or not.

The corner combo I use for about 700+ more damage is 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 2369B 5BB 214A 22A j.C ad(catch)j.C dj.B6BC 236B. Though to be honest, I only do that if I know it's going to kill or if I know I have to try to make a big lead. Otherwise mixups are pretty strong, but not always reliable if your opponent guesses right. At least you get oki off of the shorter combo.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on June 01, 2010, 02:59:45 AM
H has the most + frames of the moons. Confirmed by the mook.

3C is +3, 22A is +9, 22C is +3 on each hit. All of the 63214 moves are + on block (2/5/3 respectively)

Wow H is broken... More + frames than F lol
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Shlowpoke on June 01, 2010, 07:50:20 AM
I wouldn't count the 63214 moves. xD

Maybe I'm mistaken but I think the knife hits way before Ryougi lands, so you can't actually take advantage of the +frames.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: LivingShadow on June 01, 2010, 12:22:37 PM
I agree with Shlowpoke on that. However, you do have a few frames of blockstun to work with once you land, but not really enough to capitalize on.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on June 01, 2010, 02:36:02 PM
Yeah I know, I just thought it was interesting.

Still. 3C and 22A are very commonly used moves for damn good reasons lol
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Benny1 on June 01, 2010, 08:44:52 PM
H has the most + frames of the moons. Confirmed by the mook.

3C is +3, 22A is +9, 22C is +3 on each hit. All of the 63214 moves are + on block (2/5/3 respectively)

Wow H is broken... More + frames than F lol

Jesus, that's nuts.

Do you own the mook, btw, or are there scans of the frame data or what?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on June 02, 2010, 03:14:30 AM
H has the most + frames of the moons. Confirmed by the mook.

3C is +3, 22A is +9, 22C is +3 on each hit. All of the 63214 moves are + on block (2/5/3 respectively)

Wow H is broken... More + frames than F lol

Jesus, that's nuts.

Do you own the mook, btw, or are there scans of the frame data or what?

I was given a scan. I'm taking all of the data and putting it into a spreadsheet, then putting it up on the wiki. I already have Crescent finished (and Crescent has the largest movelist. 65 moves)

However, there are parts which I think there are some typos or errors. Like a guard canceled 214D for C-Ryougi gives meter. or a 22C giving meter. Or a non-EX version of j.22C in the air, I gotta test that one too.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on July 23, 2010, 01:04:13 AM
Can someone post up frame display for all of H Ryougi's air normals?  Specifically j.B and j.2B.  I have a sinking feeling about something..
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on July 23, 2010, 01:36:12 AM
H Ryougi has no j2b so I guess you mean j6b.

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/burstofanger/jA.jpg)
jA
From left to right, frames 5-6, 7-9 and 10-15.

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/burstofanger/jB.jpg)
jB
From left to right, frames 3-6, 7-8 and 9-23 but the furthest greenbox on the right disappears for frames 19-23

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/burstofanger/j6b.jpg)
j6B
From left to right, frames 4-6, 7-9 and 10-18

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/burstofanger/jC.jpg)
jC
From left to right, frames 6-7, 8-10 and 11-18.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on July 23, 2010, 07:14:03 AM
Sorry yeah, I meant j.6B.  I keep forgetting notation lately  :(

Thanks for the visuals though.  No wonder I keep getting counter-hitted in the air; her hitbox extends out way too far.  Is this true for the rest of the cast?  Because I'm gonna start using j.6B instead of everything else now for air footsies.

Quote
but the furthest greenbox on the right disappears for frames 19-23

Only jB disappears?  Does that mean all the other air normals have open hitboxes that last up to 15 and 18 frames?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: ehrik on July 23, 2010, 12:59:37 PM
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4130/11012483.png)

The AA you guys almost got
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on July 23, 2010, 07:08:04 PM
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/burstofanger/jb2.jpg)
jB
Frames 9-18, then 19-23

You'd be surprised at how much difference the disappearance of that last greenbox makes.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on July 27, 2010, 04:25:16 AM
Is that anti-air for real?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: BurstOfAnger on July 27, 2010, 04:48:22 AM
No it isn't. It exists in the frame data but there's no such attack. The developers probably thought of putting it in but thought otherwise for some reason.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on July 27, 2010, 05:30:32 AM
Ah, so it's actually in the frame data and not some diabolical creation of some cruel hearted person.  Or is it...  :slowpoke:
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on October 12, 2010, 01:43:45 PM
New knifeless rejump BnB

2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C 5A 6A delay A jump9 delay j.BC land  j.8BC dj.BC j.236B

Does more damage than the knife catch BnB as well. You can omit the rejump j.B to make it a LOT easier.

This is better for far hit confirms, otherwise just go into loops.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: LivingShadow on October 12, 2010, 02:02:09 PM
Ah, so it's actually in the frame data and not some diabolical creation of some cruel hearted person.  Or is it...  :slowpoke:

Arc has more, she still has the framedata for the crosscounter.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on October 12, 2010, 04:56:44 PM
New knifeless rejump BnB

2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C 5A 6A delay A jump9 delay j.BC land  j.8BC dj.BC j.236B

Does more damage than the knife catch BnB as well. You can omit the rejump j.B to make it a LOT easier.

This is better for far hit confirms, otherwise just go into loops.

jp did better one.

2A 2B 5BB 5C 2C delay 5A 6AA 9 delay j.C airdash j.AC land 8 j.C dj.AC j.236B
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: LivingShadow on October 12, 2010, 04:58:23 PM
Is j.ac better than j.bc?
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on October 12, 2010, 05:45:20 PM
I couldn't tell you.  For aerial combos, I use j.BC dj.BAC, but that's only because the input is easier rather than using j.B, j.6B.

On paper, the damage is still the same.  Not sure if the proration is, but it doesn't matter too much (imo) considering that the combo is pretty much over when you reach that point.

As far as that combo Rei listed, I'd say the reason why j.A is used is because of the pushout on hit is lessened, perhaps.  That or just for ease of input.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: Rei on October 12, 2010, 05:47:15 PM
well j.B messes up height. the 2nd can probably be a j.B too, but it's like w/e. They both do 350 damage, but j.A's fixed proration is at 75% where j.B is at 80%.
Title: Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
Post by: CPhame on October 12, 2010, 06:05:06 PM
Since we're on the topic of combos, here's some that were posted from the 2ch bbs.
These were done by Fu-sui in that recent vid.

Wall combos

(credit goes to Shlowpoke originally imo)
2A>2B>5B>5B>5C>2C>j.236B>5B>5B>214A>2C>5C>22A>2C>3C>623B>236A>236A>236A

Damage:5702 
Meter gained:79.1


2A>2B>5C>2C>5B>5B>214A>2C>5C>22A>2C>3C>623B>5A>6A>6A>214A>JA>JB>JC>JA>JB>JC>236B

Damage:5220 
Meter gained:107


Midscreen combos

Fu-sui's wall carry combo
2A>2B>5B>5B>5C>2C>5A>6A>6A>JC>dash>JB>JC>land>JC>JB>JC>236B

Damage:4965 
Meter gained:86.9


2A>2B>5B>5B>5C>2C>j.236B>22C>dash>5A>6A>6A>JA>JB>DJ.A>JB>JC>236B

Damage:4928 
Meter gained:64.9