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Author Topic: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread  (Read 60389 times)

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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2010, 08:06:20 PM »
Okay, got some replays today, but Fraps + LCD screen = about delay 3, so there are only a few recorded matches, and the game play isn't amazing. It should give you a basic idea of how I play H-Ryougi though. Working on getting it uploaded.

Edit: Mostly uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/TheSnozzwangler

Lag play is pretty depressing. Won't be uploading much until we get a camcorder/better recording setup.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 11:57:54 AM by Nandeyanen »

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2010, 12:05:31 PM »
Okay, got some replays today, but Fraps + LCD screen = about delay 3, so there are only a few recorded matches, and the game play isn't amazing. It should give you a basic idea of how I play H-Ryougi though. Working on getting it uploaded.

Edit: Mostly uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/TheSnozzwangler

Lag play is pretty depressing. Won't be uploading much until we get a camcorder/better recording setup.

Lag withstanding, I thought you were very solid.  I liked your use of IAD knife catch > air dodge.  That was most brilliant.  Your combo damage was kind of low; I think the highest I saw was about 3.9k?  Either way, it worked out most of the time but I feel if it wasn't due to the lag you could be doing a lot more damage.

And your knife-catching ability is very nice.  You focus on it a lot, sometimes sacrificing damage for a knife pickup.  All in all, good stuff sir.
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2010, 01:26:41 PM »
Okay, got some replays today, but Fraps + LCD screen = about delay 3, so there are only a few recorded matches, and the game play isn't amazing. It should give you a basic idea of how I play H-Ryougi though. Working on getting it uploaded.

Edit: Mostly uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/TheSnozzwangler

Lag play is pretty depressing. Won't be uploading much until we get a camcorder/better recording setup.

Lag withstanding, I thought you were very solid.  I liked your use of IAD knife catch > air dodge.  That was most brilliant.  Your combo damage was kind of low; I think the highest I saw was about 3.9k?  Either way, it worked out most of the time but I feel if it wasn't due to the lag you could be doing a lot more damage.

And your knife-catching ability is very nice.  You focus on it a lot, sometimes sacrificing damage for a knife pickup.  All in all, good stuff sir.

Yeah, lot of dropped combos and missed hit confirms on all sides. Also kind of lackluster blockstrings/movement (too linear, too many IADs) on my end. I drop the 2c tk j.236b -> corner combo a lot in these vids, which is my generally my most damaging bnb. I don't focus too much on loop combos, and focus more on knife play, though near the end of the vids, I just start throwing it out randomly which is pretty poor. I fish for counter hits a lot to get 2-3k damage combos, and zone with normals. I should probably be using 5a to anti-air more, and mixing up my knife catches and movement a bit (ex. 66 7 catch air dash, 66 air back dash catch, 9 catch, etc.).

Will hopefully post more vids once the next semester starts and someone brings a camcorder setup.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 01:40:28 PM by Nandeyanen »

Offline Rei

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2010, 03:14:35 PM »
You need to use j.236B at the end of certain air combos... Like if your knife is right below you and j.236B puts them to the other side of the stage, it's a good idea to do that instead of grab while doing a little more damage and picking up your knife.
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2010, 03:23:09 PM »
You need to use j.236B at the end of certain air combos... Like if your knife is right below you and j.236B puts them to the other side of the stage, it's a good idea to do that instead of grab while doing a little more damage and picking up your knife.

Actually kind of divided on this. I used to prefer ending with j.236b, but now, I'm finding that I really like air throw since it puts them in range of 5b/2b/5c and puts you in a pretty ideal range.

Edit: Was rewatching the vids, and I think I saw what you were talking about Rei, where in a round against Jeff, I was basically on top of the knife in the corner, and we were both at pretty low health. IMO, for that situation, air throwing was fine, especially for corner pressure (though I sorta wasted it by using a punishable rekka).
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 05:36:44 PM by Nandeyanen »

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2010, 03:39:59 PM »
Air throws are better than ground throws for sure, since you end up closer to them.  But sometimes using 236B enders midscreen helps your corner game a lot better than air throws since you can harass with j.C and j.236B.  Even more so when you have your knife, as you can start spamming from a distance while they're far away (since you seem to have an affinity for knife throwing)  ;)
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Offline Shlowpoke

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2010, 11:43:58 PM »
Heeey Shlowpoke taking the .gif i made for his avatar :(. lol It's awesome.

I made this gif myself and had no idea you had made a similar one. =(

I'm gonna go with 'great minds think alike.' Yeah. >.>

I'm finding that I really like air throw since it puts them in range of 5b/2b/5c and puts you in a pretty ideal range.

Careful with that. Airthrow is pretty meh as a midscreen combo ender once your opponent learns to backdash on wakeup. A lot of Ryougi's pokes are good but have really bad lag on whiff (prime example is 5b). Hell, sidestep even works. It's still really useful in the corner though whether you decide to keep them in the corner or airthrow the other way to stay close to them.

There were a bunch of things I liked about your Ryougi, but I'm only going to the post the criticism to save time/space. I apologize if any of these things were due to the lag:

1. Your combos need some work. Your stuff is reliable, but Ryougi can do a lot more damage than 3.5k. You seem to really like your knife and that's fine, but there are ways to get much higher damage and still keep it/get back to it.

2. You almost always go for the air dash catch after 22a. If you can react to a random knife hit and you're close enough, you can combo with 2c for some decent damage. If you've got enough room, you can even combo back to the knife and pick it up. Try 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, j.bc, dj.bc, 236b. You may have to super doublejump and/or throw in an extra move in the air string, but it should get you back to the knife with plenty of time to pick it up.

3. When you're guard-crushing you can start your rekkas with 236b instead of 236a to get closer so the last rekka doesn't whiff before 22c.

4. Careful with your arc drives. xD Throwing them out there is fun, I know. I do like the 2c, 2a, arc drive setup though. Another decent setup is to combo into a corner airthrow (putting yourself in the corner), and then sort of tickthrow them with 2a/arc drive.

I enjoyed your pre-game SF footsies against Satsuki. xD
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 11:46:39 PM by Shlowpoke »

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2010, 12:50:19 PM »
Was messing around in practice mode.  Can someone explain this to me?  After doing this combo:

5BB 2B 5C 2C 6AAA 214A (wallslam) 5BB...air juggle

I can't seem to get the 5BB after 214A on smaller characters.  Only 5C works.  Are there weight ratios in this game?

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Offline s4itox

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2010, 07:26:20 PM »
It may be because you're inputting 5BB too late, since I find 5B has terrible startup. I used to whiff all the time doing 214A -> 5BB on C, but after I realised that I was just inputting too late I seemed to have a lot more success in doing it. Same principle should apply to H.

EDIT: As an afterthought, perhaps it might help to delay the 214A just the tiniest bit after 6AAA. That way the character has a little more time to fall, meaning less height to cover after the 214A and less chance of aerial recover before you can land your 5BB.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 07:34:04 PM by s4itox »

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2010, 08:01:29 PM »
5BB works on Warachia, but not on someone like say, Sion.  I don't even think I can delay it that long, because the combo turns invalid. 

I'm just looking for an easier alternative than the 2C >2369B >5BB >214A string, since it's incredibly difficult to land (for me).  But thanks, I'll give your suggestion a shot!
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Offline s4itox

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2010, 08:45:48 PM »
It really depends on what height you end up landing the 214A, I guess. I find it relatively easy to connect 5BB on characters like Ryougi, Sion, etc whereas characters like Len pose a slightly more tricky challenge. But good luck, in any case  :)

Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2010, 11:33:49 PM »
More vids of my H-Ryougi on Ckosra's youtube account. In the first couple of vids, the hp bar is cutoff because the cam wasn't setup well, and Ckosra seems to be having problems uploading 20 mins worth of vid footage of my H-Ryougi against YAT (essentially me getting raped hard for 20 mins). In the vids, I notice myself trying to poke too much, and backdashing too much midscreen. Any other criticism (for my H-Ryougi gameplay) is appreciated.

Edit: All vids are up now.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 12:49:54 PM by Nandeyanen »

Offline Shlowpoke

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2010, 11:22:40 AM »
Good to see you trying out some more difficult combos. :toot:

There are two tricks to make it easier to hit the 2c after a midscreen 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b combo:

1. The opponent should be as low as possible to the ground when the 623b hits. You can put the delay between the 2c and 3c or between the 3c and 623b, or even delay both a little. Whatever works for you. It'll take some getting used to.

2. When you input 623b, make sure you let go of the 'b' as soon as you possibly can. Since this is a charge move, Ryougi will run forward a bit if you hold the button for any length of time. Therefore, in order to be close enough to hit the 2c after 623b, you have to make sure the move goes off as quickly as possible.

If you're really good at this you can fit 3 or 4 623b's in one combo, but I find any more than 2 to be especially difficult. Seems even more difficult if you start the combo with 2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b instead of using 22a, for some reason.

Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2010, 12:35:42 PM »
Good to see you trying out some more difficult combos. :toot:

There are two tricks to make it easier to hit the 2c after a midscreen 22a, 2c, 3c, 623b combo:

1. The opponent should be as low as possible to the ground when the 623b hits. You can put the delay between the 2c and 3c or between the 3c and 623b, or even delay both a little. Whatever works for you. It'll take some getting used to.

2. When you input 623b, make sure you let go of the 'b' as soon as you possibly can. Since this is a charge move, Ryougi will run forward a bit if you hold the button for any length of time. Therefore, in order to be close enough to hit the 2c after 623b, you have to make sure the move goes off as quickly as possible.

If you're really good at this you can fit 3 or 4 623b's in one combo, but I find any more than 2 to be especially difficult. Seems even more difficult if you start the combo with 2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b instead of using 22a, for some reason.

Yeah, I can do it in practice mode pretty consistantly, but not in matches.

Offline Shlowpoke

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2010, 04:48:42 PM »
So guys, I found a ~5k corner combo that leads to knife mixup. :slowpoke:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TKj.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, (slight delay), 5c, 5bb, (slight delay*), 214c, j.b(whiff), (land and hold 4 for a few frames), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup

*you'll need this against most characters, so that they get closer to the corner so you don't cross up with 2c

Here's an easier version that does about 1k less damage:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, 214c, j.b(whiff), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup

Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2010, 07:17:08 PM »
Shlowpoke, do you know which characters H-Ryougi's 2a 2c 3c loop does not work on? I've tested on a few chars, but haven't gone through the entire cast, and was wondering if you happened to have tested it already.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 07:19:06 PM by Nandeyanen »

Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2010, 04:38:01 AM »
So guys, I found a ~5k corner combo that leads to knife mixup. :slowpoke:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 5c, 2c, TKj.236b, 5bb, 214a, 2c, (slight delay), 5c, 5bb, (slight delay*), 214c, j.b(whiff), (land and hold 4 for a few frames), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup

*you'll need this against most characters, so that they get closer to the corner so you don't cross up with 2c

Here's an easier version that does about 1k less damage:

2a, 5bb, 2b, 3c, 623b, 2c, 3c, 5c, 5bb, 214c, j.b(whiff), 2c, (delay), 22a(whiff) -> knife catch mixup

Also noticed that you can go for a sandoori if you end it early: 2a 5bb 2b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 2a (whiff) = meterless 4300 dmg + mix-up. Could be useful.

Edit: After testing this quite a bit, it actually seems really solid.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 06:43:00 AM by Nandeyanen »

Offline Shlowpoke

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2010, 09:24:07 AM »
Shlowpoke, do you know which characters H-Ryougi's 2a 2c 3c loop does not work on? I've tested on a few chars, but haven't gone through the entire cast, and was wondering if you happened to have tested it already.

Yep, I've tested it already. The characters I can't get it to work on at all are VAkiha, Hisui, Mech Hisui, Satsuki, and Ryougi. 2a->2c whiffs on everyone there except VAkiha, who has weird falling properties that make looping it impossible.

Aside from that, there are some characters where the loop ends after 2-3 reps. These are Miyako, Nero, Kohaku, and Ciel. White Len's ends 1 rep early compared to all the characters it works normally on. (Full loop is around 30 hits, so White Len's would be around 27.)

Aoko, Ries, Tohno, and Kouma's loops have extremely awkward delays and random crossups which make it really difficult to do on them. They're not worth trying it on (at least for me).

There are some timing variations but it generally works on everyone else. Something to keep in mind with the sweep loop is that it is very number-of-hits-specific. If you have too few or too many starting hits, it often won't work. If anybody has trouble starting the loop on any characters I didn't mention above, just ask.

Also noticed that you can go for a sandoori if you end it early: 2a 5bb 2b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 2a (whiff) = meterless 4300 dmg + mix-up. Could be useful.

This does seem like a pretty solid knifeless, meterless corner setup. If you're fast and your opponent respects it, you could even 22a after the 2a whiff for a crossup knife catch mixup... something you can't do with the corner setup I posted about above. Nice, Nandeyanen.

An option I'm thinking about but haven't tested could be to dash at them and push them very close to the corner on oki, then IAD j.c to hit behind them as they're waking up. You could also fake it and push them too far into the corner so you can't crossup. It could be a pretty good knifeless mixup.

The gimmicky roll crossup after the 2a whiff could work too. xD
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 09:26:02 AM by Shlowpoke »

Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2010, 10:50:17 AM »
I've tested knife mix-ups after the corner setup, and nearly all of the 2a (whiff) 22a/22b knife throw mix-up are completely dependent on whether your opponent stands or crouches as they get up. If they're crouching, basically all your moves will cross up, and unless you're falling on them with a j.c, your aerial attack will whiff. So, you end up with cross up j.c, cross up 2a, cross up throw, or cross up 4c. If they're standing, then you can basically do standard high/low/throw knife mix-ups with the addition of being able to do cross up 2a/4c.

You can also go for 2a (whiff) 63214a IABD high/low/throw mix-up which may/may not be good, and you can always just go for normal sandoori mix up.

2a 5bb 2b 5c 2c tkj.236b 5bb 214a 2c 22a is also funny. Pretty sure you can get a high hit off of it by holding 4 after the knife throw, and doing a knife catch to j.b. I guess you could use it to move back by just IADing into the knife, and maybe get a better position, but I still don't think it'll really be useful. It's pretty humorous though.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 10:56:32 AM by Nandeyanen »

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2010, 02:31:39 PM »
Updated the wiki with Shlowpoke's combos posted on page 1, as well as a few small things on her normals and specials.  Been working around finding other ticks into 41236C now that I have access to the game again.  I was inspired by Nandeyanen's 2C 2A tick and knife catch > land tick.  That was good stuff man.

I also have to change my mind about 214A, since I didn't realize it was air unblockable for the longest time.  If you whiff it or block, you can tick into her arc drive right away.  Same thing with 214B and 63214A.

63214A works pretty good in the corner.  I'm going to try to use it more often as a block string ender in the wall and see what happens.  22A and 22B are also great, but I can't seem to figure out which works best in a corner pressure situation, as they each varying degrees of IAD dash cancel sandoori setups.  Additionally, Ryougi seems much more fearsome when you're in heat mode due to her arc drive so that makes those options even more viable, since you can tick right away into after you've thrown the knife.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2010, 03:34:22 PM »
Even though I like to use plenty of (bad) gimmicks, I'm still of the opinion that 63214a and 214a/b shouldn't really be used in blockstrings. People are pretty prone to mashing especially as they get closer to guard break. And iirc, 214a/b whiff if they're crouching (b hits if you're just the right distance away), then you get punished for like, 5k damage.

As for using 22a or 22b in blockstrings, I generally prefer 22a. It starts up and recovers faster which is better for blockstrings. You also get more knife catch options 22a, since you can move earlier. 22b hits low, which could be relevant, but not really, and just gives you less options altogether.

And when you're in heat, if you use your arc drive frequently they're more likely to jump out, so just start punishing jump outs with 5b or something and go into a full combo.

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2010, 04:25:02 PM »
You're not the only one who uses gimmicks.  I tend to favor a risky approach to keep people on their toes, so I try to squeeze in any hit off I can get.  Not really a great lifestyle choice  :psyduck:

I think the key difference for landing 214B is where you insert it, namely after 5C since it pushes out.  People get used to me doing 5C into 2C often, so throwing the overhead in there is somewhat of a 50/50.  Depending on their guard meter I might forsake that option and just go for 236 rekka series into 22C, but I don't really like throwing the knife unless there's some kind of payback for dropping it. 

63214A looks like 214B on startup, so it confuses them to block high.  That's where I considered inputting 63214A to keep the momentum going, as it recovers faster than 214B on block and still gives an option to either a) continue ground pressure with 2A, b) jump IAD sandoori for the overhead / low 2A mixup, or c) tick into arc drive if in heat.

Either way I still need to throw this against some friends to see how well it works. 
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2010, 04:36:29 PM »
Also, I don't think I've mentioned it yet on here, but after a midscreen blockstring -> 22c, you can do the 66+ab roll and get a cross up 2a. Gimmicks.

Offline CPhame

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2010, 05:09:05 PM »
 :slowpoke:

Ryougi's arc drive (assuming the person has their back to the wall) extends all the way to right below the timer, so as soon as you see someone revert back to neutral state from guard stun, it's instant.  Kinda like MvC2's Zangief's spd in terms of range, but less cheesy.
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Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: H-Ryougi Thoughts Without a Thread
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2010, 05:17:56 PM »
:slowpoke:

Ryougi's arc drive (assuming the person has their back to the wall) extends all the way to right below the timer, so as soon as you see someone revert back to neutral state from guard stun, it's instant.  Kinda like MvC2's Zangief's spd in terms of range, but less cheesy.

It doesn't reach quite that far. Sabator tested the range for F-Ryougi, which should be the same.

http://i25.tinypic.com/6j24u8.jpg also here is the max range of her AD