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Author Topic: j236 or Airthrow?  (Read 5470 times)

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Offline BurstOfAnger

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j236 or Airthrow?
« on: October 05, 2009, 04:27:14 AM »
We all know by now that Ryougi's airthrow doesn't really give her much afterwards. You're too far away and your enemy recovers too soon for you to do any sort of oki. Unless you somehow scared the fella shitless to the point that he doesn't do anything besides block.

So, in my opinion, I'd rather use her j236 set to add some damage and let them tech back to a neutral game than do an airthrow that does less damage and gives you not that much of an advantage. Expecially in the case of F-Ryougi where I can maximize damage by allowing jb to hit twice and ending with a j236.

Of course, all of this is my opinion which, through experience, seems to be shallow and weak. So I'd like to hear from you others who have used Ryougi and actually fought with other humans (All I can fight against is the AI and that non-moving dummy in practice mode). Which do you prefer, j236 or airthrow, and why?
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Offline S-Blade

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 10:06:52 AM »
with fryougi i've been doing exclusively j236 enders for a while but i'm finding the few times i do airthrow ender in corner, it serves me pretty well. just because you don't get oki or massive ++frames doesn't mean it isn't advantageous; for fryougi it puts you at a great range for pokes and starting your pressure again safely. it's an advantageous position.

that being said, you being below your opponent in the air after j236 ender can also be an advantageous position because of your 5b and jB. but this is not true 100% of the time....

basically, what is rationally the right answer is probably character dependent; dependent mostly on your opponent's air-to-ground

as for C/H, i know nothing. lol
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Offline Rei

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 01:14:53 AM »
depends for C-Ryougi. I tend to just stick with 236B for more damage and then chase in the air, but C-Ryougi CAN do things after airthrow... Dash 2A works, dash grab works, dash 5B works to catch jumpouts, etc. Her dash grab beats out Kohaku's 2A mashing on getup lol...

I don't know about H-Ryougi, I haven't played her enough.

I think F-Ryougi should ALWAYS use j.236B as an ender. Lets her land and charge.

Though if your knife is on the ground, you should probably use j.236B and go pick it up no matter what moon you are.

Quote
basically, what is rationally the right answer is probably character dependent; dependent mostly on your opponent's air-to-ground
^thisx1000
if your opponent has shitty air to ground, go ahead and do j.236B then chase them with dash and go for AA relaunch.

Though also factor in air-to-air. Ryougi's is pretty strong and she can chase in the air fairly well after j.236B.

I'm thinking about playing all of the Ryougi moons. Dunno about it though, I'm not too bad with C right now, just need to work on my neutral game a bit. Combos I've got down easy.
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Offline CPhame

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 04:16:58 PM »
I would only use throws as an ender near the corner.  Ryougi's better when they're against the wall.

After a corner air throw, there's enough room for IAD j.C.  Timing is tight. 

2C > 5BB > air combo hits on wakeup if they try anything.  5B 5C is an anti-air blockstring.  If you land 5B, you can air juggle.  5BB won't connect, as you're pushed back too far (after corner air throw).  Run up 2A_5B is also an option if you trained them to sit still.

If you have meter to spend, 22C is a good lock down pattern to position yourself into guard break.  214C is great as well, since you can j.B after it and land into your bnb block string.  You can also j.C >air dash >j.C_land 2A for mixups as well during 22C.

Ground throw is universally good too.  Even more shenanigans.  More info on the wiki if people want to browse more things for H.
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Offline Muffin

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 07:47:58 AM »
For H-Ryougi I'll use j.236B as an ender if i'm midscreen. Once I have them in corner I use airthrow to end, mainly because it keeps them in corner and I might be able to work something out of it. However I'm starting to experiment with the j236 ender for corner combos to see if I can continue it in anyway.

Also I just like ending with air throw because it looks badass lol.

Offline Rei

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2010, 06:28:01 AM »
Honestly I only do j.236B if I need to get my knife or if I know my throw wont connect. I prefer throw because even in midscreen throw leaves you + and enough time to do stuff. Plus from midscreen you can combo into the corner with just about any Ryougi.
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Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2010, 07:04:06 PM »
Does the air throw really give you +frames? I find that it turns the situation to neutral ie 0 frame advantage because you recover as soon as the opponent wakes up. That's why I posted this question.
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Offline Rei

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2010, 09:54:26 PM »
Does the air throw really give you +frames? I find that it turns the situation to neutral ie 0 frame advantage because you recover as soon as the opponent wakes up. That's why I posted this question.

The timing is tight but you can dash 5B to keep distance and it comes out before anything the enemy does (unless they DP or reversal you)
<@sibladeko> lack of close buttons is poverty
<@sibladeko> means the police can't use secret elevator codes to save us
<Darcius> poor people not worth savin
<@SilentShinobi> the double down is the black man's lethal kryptonite

Offline Nandeyanen

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 02:31:40 PM »
Does the air throw really give you +frames? I find that it turns the situation to neutral ie 0 frame advantage because you recover as soon as the opponent wakes up. That's why I posted this question.

The timing is tight but you can dash 5B to keep distance and it comes out before anything the enemy does (unless they DP or reversal you)

Don't really know much about the other grooves, but for H-Ryougi, they can jump out if you go for dash 5b. Also, for +frames/oki after a wall combo, you can air throw away from the wall, and you'll land right next to them and be able to meaty 2a, 5b, tick throw, etc. Not sure how useful that is though, as they'll no longer be in the corner.

Offline Rei

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 03:59:20 PM »
Does the air throw really give you +frames? I find that it turns the situation to neutral ie 0 frame advantage because you recover as soon as the opponent wakes up. That's why I posted this question.

The timing is tight but you can dash 5B to keep distance and it comes out before anything the enemy does (unless they DP or reversal you)

Don't really know much about the other grooves, but for H-Ryougi, they can jump out if you go for dash 5b. Also, for +frames/oki after a wall combo, you can air throw away from the wall, and you'll land right next to them and be able to meaty 2a, 5b, tick throw, etc. Not sure how useful that is though, as they'll no longer be in the corner.

well, you can't do dash. I just tested it. You can do standing 5B and hit them if they jump.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 09:23:19 PM by Rei »
<@sibladeko> lack of close buttons is poverty
<@sibladeko> means the police can't use secret elevator codes to save us
<Darcius> poor people not worth savin
<@SilentShinobi> the double down is the black man's lethal kryptonite

Offline CPhame

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 05:09:10 PM »
Standing 5C works well for me.  5C hits out of the air, allowing 5C, 2C, 5BB > air combo.  214A should also be applied occasionally to discourage jumpers as well near the wall.
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Offline Rei

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2010, 06:56:38 PM »
Standing 5C works well for me.  5C hits out of the air, allowing 5C, 2C, 5BB > air combo.  214A should also be applied occasionally to discourage jumpers as well near the wall.

What moon are you playing?
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<Darcius> poor people not worth savin
<@SilentShinobi> the double down is the black man's lethal kryptonite

Offline CPhame

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2010, 07:13:37 PM »
Half moon.  Sorry, I should have mentioned that first.
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Offline Rei

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2010, 09:23:59 PM »
Standing 5C works well for me.  5C hits out of the air, allowing 5C, 2C, 5BB > air combo.  214A should also be applied occasionally to discourage jumpers as well near the wall.
if they don't jump though... 214 A whiffs and you get punished. Bad move
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<@sibladeko> means the police can't use secret elevator codes to save us
<Darcius> poor people not worth savin
<@SilentShinobi> the double down is the black man's lethal kryptonite

Offline CPhame

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2010, 09:28:25 PM »
That's why I said occasionally.  5C is the safer option, hence why I use that over 214A.  Training the opponent to stand still, etc.
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Offline Rei

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Re: j236 or Airthrow?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2010, 01:08:45 AM »
Just do 5C every time until you know they're gonna sit, then you can do d.5B to get better guard damage and pressure in.

End with 236 if you NEED the damage or need to pick your knife up.

But as an homage to j.236B, I have changed my avatar  :teach:
<@sibladeko> lack of close buttons is poverty
<@sibladeko> means the police can't use secret elevator codes to save us
<Darcius> poor people not worth savin
<@SilentShinobi> the double down is the black man's lethal kryptonite