Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Current Code => Sion Eltnam Atlasia => : BurstOfAnger November 14, 2010, 09:03:41 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Any changes in CC known yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxPaSiWLUA#&t=9m50s
Did she get a damage buff? Probably a change in the proration for j[c]. 7k on VSion not starting from an aerial.
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C-Sion:
214A - Faster start up
JA - Duration increased
421AB - Faster start up
Dash - Faster + profile lowered
236 - Auto reload has more recovery
F-Sion:
3B - Air unblockable
22B - Throw hitbox improved
Dash - Faster + profile lowered
H-Sion:
5C - Buffs to hitbox, recovery and start up
JA - Duration increased
6C - Improved
BE6C - Improved
BE6B - Faster start up
JB - Weaker hitbox
421A - Faster Start up
5A6A - Prorate stronger
Dash - Faster + profile lowered
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Any changes in CC known yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxPaSiWLUA#&t=9m50s
Did she get a damage buff? Probably a change in the proration for j[c]. 7k on VSion not starting from an aerial.
No, the reason that combo did so much damage was because Vsion has terrible defense and BAB had terrible timing for damage reduction.
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Any changes in CC known yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxPaSiWLUA#&t=9m50s
Did she get a damage buff? Probably a change in the proration for j[c]. 7k on VSion not starting from an aerial.
No, the reason that combo did so much damage was because Vsion has terrible defense and BAB had terrible timing for damage reduction.
also note perfect starter (2b 5c)
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So 2a prorates THAT much?
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C-Sion:
JA - Duration increased
It's hitbox is still probably out of the screen.. Now 1.000001 frame then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g84DeKxczz0#t=14:44
If you pause you'll see:
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6803/lolbsu.png)
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Kind of hard to tell what happened there. Looks like it ran out of active frames.
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(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i113/LilRoku/Matchvid.png)
The JA came out earlier than what you have shown-- what you are showing are the move's later recovery frames, which look almost exactly the same as the active frames, as shown below:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i113/LilRoku/Capture.jpg)
Red Circle obviously being the recovery frames, as well as Fwara 5A in the same position to show why her JA whiffed.
...Also just to clear up confusion, I'm pretty damn sure Sion's JA never had any such properties. I've checked both mbac/mbaa vsion/sion JA and they all have the same style hitbox, shown below:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i113/LilRoku/sionja.png)
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Nice play by play analysis Dr. Roku!
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Aw yeah Roku,you got 'em good. 8-)
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Really good shit, framedata presentation ftw xD
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Nice, Roku xDD
Yeah, I was not serious, but I'm really pissed at j.A's hitbox and duration frames... And they buffed, but it's still the same shit... And it seems C-VSion didnt get the j.A duration inscreased too, only C-Sion, what pissed me too...
The first image is MBAC's and the second is MBAA's right? There is a huge difference in the hitboxes. In the first image the hitbox begins in the foot. In the second image it begins when 30%+ of the space between knee and foot is gone... That makes a ridiculous difference for an A attack (allowing such image I've posted to be possible). No wonder if you guys got confused by looking at that image is because something is wrong, or else you would just know about it and don't get confused.
They should change the animation. In MBAC that j.A would obviously hit from there (or even higher). In other words the animation was much more coherent with the attack data. It's funny to see C-Sion players in air now... They have to go for j.B allday even though it's not really a good move... Also her cool combos are gone and if she wants damage she has to go Nero's way j.C j.C j.C j.C. Even her 214C got nerfed (it was a gimmick in the corner and Sion was used to end much closer). And when, according to Rowan's statistic site, the only character least popular then Sion was Mech-Hisui back in MBAC. Or Melty Blood community is all about character love and they hate Sion, or Sion wasnt that strong. They should delete this moon already if it's for such a cool character to be ridiculed this way xD.
Phew. Sorry guys, but I feel lighter now :3
And I was correct, wasnt I? Wasnt the hitbox outside the screen? :laffo:
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They should change the animation. In MBAC that j.A would obviously hit from there (or even higher). In other words the animation was much more coherent with the attack data.
The whole point of nerfing jAs was so that you can't mindlessly jump around and hit jA while being ultra safe. That being said, they can't really change the animation. Why? If they make it shorter then it's back to MBAC status where jAs recover very quickly. The way they are right now is how they should be imo. They're good enough to catch moves in startup but they aren't so gdlk that you can't just throw them out all the time.
It's funny to see C-Sion players in air now... They have to go for j.B allday even though it's not really a good move...
Sion jB is GREAT.
Also her cool combos are gone and if she wants damage she has to go Nero's way j.C j.C j.C j.C.
Yeah, this is lame. I miss her MBAC combos.
And when, according to Rowan's statistic site, the only character least popular then Sion was Mech-Hisui back in MBAC. Or Melty Blood community is all about character love and they hate Sion, or Sion wasnt that strong.
Japan used her quite a bit in MBAC.
And I was correct, wasnt I? Wasnt the hitbox outside the screen? :laffo:
No, you weren't.
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C-Sion:
JA - Duration increased
It's hitbox is still probably out of the screen.. Now 1.000001 frame then?
Sion's jA duration in console is 5 frames of start-up, 4 active frames, and some recovery frames (not sure how many, but prolly about 7 like 5A). Total of about 16 frames.
So 'jA duration increase' may not mean more active frames. Most normals in the game have 4 active frames. It may mean more start-up or recovery frames...
The statement is too vague to tell what it means. All it tells us is that full jA animation is longer than it was before.
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Actually Sion's j.B is one of the worst moves to use as a main air footsie... Some people think that her j.C is good and if she preffers to use j.B instead of it is because it's really good, but her j.C is the worst in the game... It's not even close to V.Sion's j.C and it's only useful to use after j.A or j.B... That is the reason why Sion players use j.B. But in Melty Blood now every character have good air footsies, making even V.Sion's j.C just "normal", so Sion's j.B is really bad as it has poor range and if you whiff you'll get comboed and you can't risk using j.AB because j.A now whiffs allday. With this Sion has simply no option in the air, and she has to use j.B because it's the "least bad". Her airset was already by far the weakest one even in MBAC, but she could adapt it because of j.A godlike properties (eg. ground dash j.A or airdash j.AC/AB/ABC/ACB/AAAA guard break, etc). The j.A was her main neutral game move by far..
In general she had a bad neutral games (no priority in air, no range in land), but the compensation was her amazing pressure with plenty of options, higher damage in the game and safe strings. The oki after her airthrow was her main weapon as her options after that were so strong. And with all this in MBAC the only player who did good with her was Kubo... There was actually only 4 Sion players: Kubo, Buta, Yuu and TTK... While every other char had more players but Maids and maybe White Len...
Then they make her airthrow, the key of her pressure, techable, nerf brutally her only decent air footsie (j.A), nerf her string options, her dash, her damage, her overhead and make her look dumb with funny combos... Yuu, who is the most notable Sion player got ranked down on danisen 2 times in a row, and was playing H-Akiha and C-Satsuki, but it seems after all the time specializing in Sion he's not inspired to play other characters as it's visible he didn't do very well... I may be wrong, but even Kiriya who played H-Sion was playing F-Arcueid... If Yuu and Kiriya really dropped her, the only three Sion player in JP right now are probably Chest with F, Shishido with C and Kamoshio with H... But there arent videos of them for a while now.. I don't even know if they're still playing =/
About the animation: I didn't mean they have to change the recovery frames, only the animation. The way it is now what you see is far from what is happening: the very reason why people didnt understand the image I've posted... They should make her kick look shorter and end more quick, even if the recovery frames will be the same, so it wont confuse the players..
C-Sion:
JA - Duration increased
It's hitbox is still probably out of the screen.. Now 1.000001 frame then?
Sion's jA duration in console is 5 frames of start-up, 4 active frames, and some recovery frames (not sure how many, but prolly about 7 like 5A). Total of about 16 frames.
So 'jA duration increase' may not mean more active frames. Most normals in the game have 4 active frames. It may mean more start-up or recovery frames...
The statement is too vague to tell what it means. All it tells us is that full jA animation is longer than it was before.
That sounds a reasonable explanation. Sad though ={
Thanks for explaining that..
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....... :slowpoke:
...Incoming nuke directed at Cristu; Cristu, brace yourself for impact.
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Actually Sion's j.B is one of the worst moves to use as a main air footsie
It's good for hitting people below you.
her j.C is the worst in the game... It's not even close to V.Sion's j.C and it's only useful to use after j.A or j.B...
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8252/24996854.png)
Top is Sion. Bottom is VSion.
Sion's j.B is really bad as it has poor range and if you whiff you'll get comboed
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6497/85437236.png)
Spacing defensively, people whiff these moves all day. Used properly on offense these moves are good. Sion jB has a similar hitbox to FTohno jB/Miyako jC. It's a very good move.
Her airset was already by far the weakest one even in MBAC, but she could adapt it because of j.A godlike properties (eg. ground dash j.A or airdash j.AC/AB/ABC/ACB/AAAA guard break, etc). The j.A was her main neutral game move by far..
The thing is, this isn't MBAC anymore. The reason her air game wasn't that strong was because other character's jAs were obscenely good. Now that other characters jAs got massively nerfed her other air normals(jB, jC) are great. Her overall air moveset in MBAA is great. j214a catches antiairs in startup, j2C is another good air to ground normal, jB can be good air to air or air to ground, jC is great if they're above you, and j[c] can be used for movement tricks or to fish for CH after air dp ender. Even jA can be used if you want to catch someone in startup. She still struggles in neutral but that's the result of her weak ground game.
In general she had a bad neutral games (no priority in air, no range in land)
2c superarmor --> 214c --> big damage. 214b has hella range to catch unsafe long range pokes/mindless falling down actions. She didn't have the best neutral in the game but it was still respectable.
Then they make her airthrow, the key of her pressure, techable
This is a problem a lot of characters in MBAA face. C-Sion at least has the option to end combos in 214a/j214c to get oki. And again, if she does air dp ender she can fish for CH effectively with jC/j[C]. If they respect falling down you can dp/airthrow to hit them anyways.
nerf her string options
The only "nerf" to her string options is that manual reload is slower. But you can't bara bullets on block anymore now either, which makes bullet pressure waaaay more gdlk.
her dash
Pretty sure her dash is 100% the same.
her damage
She still has really good damage off j[c] loop. She doesn't have as much damage off oki enders, but again, that's a pretty universal nerf in MBAA.
her overhead
Her overhead is the same minus low invulnerability. That's a very minor nerf when you consider how easy it is for her to CH people for mashing.
Chest with F
Is that the orange F-Sion?
About the animation: I didn't mean they have to change the recovery frames, only the animation. The way it is now what you see is far from what is happening: the very reason why people didnt understand the image I've posted... They should make her kick look shorter and end more quick, even if the recovery frames will be the same, so it wont confuse the players..
They could do that but I'm guessing they probably didn't because it'd look awkward to see the move visually end but have you in a state where you can't do anything.
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man I said what happened without the goddamned frame data. no don't listen to the man dumb enough to play this s&m queen.
about her air normals. You gotta be above or below the opponent. Sion is STRONGEST above or below her opponent. j.b and j.2c destroy alot of anti airs as well as properly timed j.214s. j.c also actually beats kouma 2b. Its why choco plays hvsion and fhisui. Couldn't take that shit. but who cares about that faggot. Nanaya and len j.c got you down? fuck that noise j.c from under them. its faster. Sion doesn't do good in the air on an equal plane. You have to deal with shit like ciel j.b, warc j.b, len j.b, nanaya j.a, wara j.b, nero j.c, kohaku j.b, faoko j.b blah blah blah. Now don't let me get you down. j.c and j.b do good their jobs air to air no matter the circumstance, but they have their sweet spots, and other moves are better.
Also on ground sion makes zoners rage. cMech or fAkiha trying to throw shit at you? 214a. Holy shit in like 9 frames you just gave yourself massive initiative. Against bulldog types you'll have some trouble sure. But she makes up for that with arguably the best dp in the game and her 421 series phasing you through shit
I am also very sad at her air throw nerf, but her post air throw game is still good in the corner. They cant tech nuetral or back or you can react with j214c. and forward techs you can 2a. neutral? 214a or dp ender for combos.
Dont take this as an angry rant. im a very sarcastic person. Sion takes grinding, but not of combos. She requires grinding of making things go ACCORDING TO HER CALCULATIONS.
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Sion probably has the best consistent damage in the game outside of PCiel,its just really hard and exec instensive to do that,rather than just mindless 214C/421C into jbcjbc.
(Also complaining about having nero-like combos,when all she does in mbac is ground normals into launcher into standard jBCjBCadj.C combos,those are are much more exciting amirite).
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Also complaining about having nero-like combos,when all she does in mbac is ground normals into launcher into standard jBCjBCadj.C combos,those are are much more exciting amirite.
lollllll
She did waaay more then that.
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Grown men crying is such a sad thing to see...
Since I discussed this with Cristu once, I can understand some things he says.
- 2C lost armor in AA (did she got it back in CC?)
- j.C is slower than V.Sion's, meaning it can get contested much easily (tho as was said here, if it can be contested, you're using it wrong)
- her overhead lost low body invul, so now she has to deal with scrubbing just like the rest of the mortal chars.
- losing her grab oki ruined her easy game of "put in corner, blockstring some and overhead randomnly for much win"
- she lost some extensive and "hype" combos
Ppl who got familiar with her in AC have trouble seeing that it is almost a different game for her now, and you have to adapt accordingly or get bodied. Being spoiled won't get you anywhere, and she is still a good and viable character regardless of how much better you think she was before.
But bottom line, you guys shouldn't argue with Cristu, he actually thinks that her j.C is bad. There is no salvation for him. :mystery:
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You have to deal with shit like nanaya j.a, kohaku j.b
These moves can only catch you in startup.
The only part of Koha jB that will ever win against Sion jB/jC if their active frames come out at the same time is definitely not on the same plane.
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3545/jbcomparison.png)
Any normal that's active will CH Kohaku jB in startup 100% if its anywhere that her jB will hit because her hitbox gets extended before the attack comes out. This is what makes jump back jB/jC from a lot of characters very effective against Kohaku. From far away it's very difficult to punish and generally the reward is a lot smaller for her in terms of damage.
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Yes, while jump back/IABD j.c strong vs kohaku (and everyone really), the same is the opposite. Kohaku jump back j.b is probably better. Also if you're constantly doing that, and down on life, you're gonna corner yourself. and then trying to go around kohaku or fight back out? fun time. and for nanaya j.a. The point is that itll beat you out of start up. when hes in your face its hard to beat out that move without getting above him to j.a/j.b. but look at me cherry pick.
anyways I just have trouble with most of the moves I picked out. Probably doesn't help that most Kohaku players are better than me or my tendency to want to super jump blindly at my opponent in an attempt to get in. but meh. Kohaku j.b is a good move. and so is sions.
Also lay off cristu imo. I felt the same way he was starting in this game. And honestly he's going to feel that way about any character until he gets better. Encourage the newcomers!
Sion probably has the best consistent damage in the game outside of PCiel,its just really hard and exec instensive to do that,rather than just mindless 214C/421C into jbcjbc.
(Also complaining about having nero-like combos,when all she does in mbac is ground normals into launcher into standard jBCjBCadj.C combos,those are are much more exciting amirite).
Sions had hype as hell 421c combos. Good ole sync cutter. Fuck i want my reload combo back.
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Also lay off cristu imo. I felt the same way he was starting in this game. And honestly he's going to feel that way about any character until he gets better. Encourage the newcomers!
He is no newcomer, the problem is that he played a lot of MBAC, but not that much of MBAA to get a good feel of what those changes really imply. Wait... I guess that makes him sort of a newcomer... :psyduck:
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Yes, while jump back/IABD j.c strong vs kohaku (and everyone really), the same is the opposite. Kohaku jump back j.b is probably better.
Kohaku jump back jB can catch people jumping at her from above but as the horizontal range on it is fairly limited it's not that great for catching people from the side. If you're fairly close and try to put out a move then she can catch your extended hitbox but you don't need to be really scared of moving forward on the ground or the air towards her. Now if H/F put out jC like that then it's pretty scary...but she still needs to be more worried about jumping at you with jB then the other way around.
Also if you're constantly doing that, and down on life, you're gonna corner yourself. and then trying to go around kohaku or fight back out? fun time.
There is no reason to constantly do that unless they are being mindless with putting out jB. If they are, then you'll CH them by doing it constantly. If they're not, and they're not F, you can start jumping/IADing at them because now they're too scared to put out jB.
and for nanaya j.a. The point is that itll beat you out of start up. when hes in your face its hard to beat out that move without getting above him to j.a/j.b. but look at me cherry pick.
The reason I picked those two moves is to point out that you can beat them in both active frames AND in startup. On the other hand, the only time they can hit you out of moves is during startup. Is that impossible to do? No. Does that require them to pick when they're going to put those moves out more carefully? Yes.
Also lay off cristu imo. I felt the same way he was starting in this game. And honestly he's going to feel that way about any character until he gets better. Encourage the newcomers!
Imo, it'll be easier for him to improve if he listens to more experienced players rather then thinking "oh these moves are garbage, better not ever use them." If you never use Sion jB/jC it'll take a hell of a lot longer to learn her than it should.
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I will talk even though those watching Greats' stream know I"m terrible at this game right now...
j.B is amazing. Like, I don't think you understand how amazing j.B is right now. j.B shuts down ANYTHING below Sion. It takes bullshit good moves (F-Kohaku 2B) to shut down Sion j.B. I know when I played recently I couldn't even hit 214B j.[C] and I was still doing well. j.B is an amazing air normal, assuming you can sort of anticipate air footsies (ie, is she lower than you or not? If she's above, hit j.C, if not, j.B, if she's on same level, consider j.A), so I feel more or less this is a misunderstanding of the character.
Tonberry, you should be aware she did lose her lower body invulnerability on 6B, but that's about it. F-Sion, at least, is a well done character, and it's hard to assume she's bad these days.
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I gave up on C-Sion already. I'm just pissed because Sion was my "main alt?" in MBAC and her gameplay was really cool and I really liked it.. Well.. I'm playing F-Sion now as alt in CC, but I mained C-Kohaku already, which was my 2º alt in MBAC..
I know about how to use her airset, but it's just useless since you need to be in the right spots and your opponent wont let you get to those spots. She needs too much spacing to press a button safely in air now. This gives too much space for the opponent to win neutral spacing... They'd just go in easely =/ Maybe it's not bad, but it's not Sion I know..
They could do that but I'm guessing they probably didn't because it'd look awkward to see the move visually end but have you in a state where you can't do anything.
You're right about that. I havent thought about this. But to me it's still awkward the way it is now =/
I remember reading somewhere Sion's and V.Sion's dashes were nerfed, but now I can't find it...
Is that the orange F-Sion?
Yes, and good news, he's still playing. Kirisugu just uploaded matches of him. He's using very well her range in the ground =o...
Also on ground sion makes zoners rage. cMech or fAkiha trying to throw shit at you? 214a. Holy shit in like 9 frames you just gave yourself massive initiative. Against bulldog types you'll have some trouble sure. But she makes up for that with arguably the best dp in the game and her 421 series phasing you through shit
Zoners never gave me much problems. The problems are against the skillful guys who will space normally with their air footsies, and I'm a bulldog (used to hunt them down with j.A =/), but their moves are going to counter mine allday now or they'll just go in taking the space I give away trying to position myself, so they win neutral game and begin the pressure. About DP.. I really don't like DP in MB (or in other games) there are so many DP proof measures to add in the okizemes/mixups that make them just bad, only useful as surprise factor imo... Also, is C-Sion 623A still a DP? F-Sion isn't =/. Because of that Chest uses 623B when he wants to actually DP. I'd preffer to block instead since blocking is OP, or try a forward jump. Her 421 in neutral are way too risky imo x.x.
I am also very sad at her air throw nerf, but her post air throw game is still good in the corner. They cant tech nuetral or back or you can react with j214c. and forward techs you can 2a. neutral? 214a or dp ender for combos.
Yeah, that's what I was doing in the time I played her, but wasnt feeling very good =/..
Dont take this as an angry rant. im a very sarcastic person.
Don't worry xD
Also complaining about having nero-like combos,when all she does in mbac is ground normals into launcher into standard jBCjBCadj.C combos,those are are much more exciting amirite).
She had so much freedom to custom combo before: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4902483
I used to do her bounce combo allday with 5(c) 6(b) 421/623b (you had to adapt according to the height as it would change the side). There was also her loop too for massive damage: 5(c) 6(b) 421/623b 421c 214b (actually I think I was the only one who used to use this): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFBD6jG9Uw4 If at least there was the bounce/reload combo.. I wouldnt mind any damage nerf, really..
j.B is amazing. Like, I don't think you understand how amazing j.B is right now. j.B shuts down ANYTHING below Sion. It takes bullshit good moves (F-Kohaku 2B) to shut down Sion j.B. I know when I played recently I couldn't even hit 214B j.[C] and I was still doing well. j.B is an amazing air normal, assuming you can sort of anticipate air footsies (ie, is she lower than you or not? If she's above, hit j.C, if not, j.B, if she's on same level, consider j.A), so I feel more or less this is a misunderstanding of the character.
I had the impression F-Sion has a way better j.B then C-Sion even though the animation is the same, am I wrong? Maybe I just really had pretty bad luck with using C-Sion's j.B, because F-Sion j.B is godlike, I agree with that.
Imo, it'll be easier for him to improve if he listens to more experienced players rather then thinking "oh these moves are garbage, better not ever use them." If you never use Sion jB/jC it'll take a hell of a lot longer to learn her than it should.
It's cool man. It's not like I'm bad or I can't improve. It's just that they totally messed up my second character and I wont play her the way she is now because of it. The things I identified as the useful ones in MBAC and added to my gameplay are gone and I'm so pissed about it when they say j.A (the base of my gameplay) duration increased and that j.A epic whiff happens =/. Anyway I really appreciate that you intended to help me. o/
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It takes bullshit good moves (F-Kohaku 2B) to shut down Sion j.B.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijhXVRRnSGo#t=843s
Clearly he 2B'ed too early, but I just thought this was funny.
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Well if you can't make C-Sion's air normals work for you, then you're probably screwed because there aren't any better ones.
There's always blocking and being pushed down into the most hardcore bullshit DP, too.
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So, it's probably not new, but still.
C-Sion Yuu's cool OTG:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf59MBYnGRA#t=7m45s
It's only for style sadly :{
C-Sion j[C] combo into good okizeme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuZCr4CuPjQ#t=11m20s
Let's go Justin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuZCr4CuPjQ#t=7m11s
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Never underestimate how good building meter can be for C-Sion, 214C is such an incredible move...
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I switched to F-Sion from C-Sion a couple of months ago when I got back into MBAA and I love it so much. Although I'm faced with a big problem here.
I'm lacking a lot of match experience. I'm too passive on defense. If I lose offensive momentum and get rushed down, I'm stuck on "What do I do? I know I need to shut this down and get my momentum back ASAP, but how? I feel like if I try anything, I'll get hit. What the heck do I do?" This always ends up in me blocking everything forever and eventually backing myself into a corner when I get overwhelmed by a lot of aggression.
I was told by a friend that Sp00ky had the same problem when he started out in MB. Unlike Sp00ky, I can't solve my problem by having Zar beat the shit out of me for thousands of matches until I become more aggressive (because I have no clue where Zar lives). Instead, I decided to ask the board. What are F-Sion's most viable defensive options (besides blocking) and how can she follow them up?
Last I checked, her shield bunker isn't that great and I doubt that has changed (Hey, prove me wrong though). Full moon obviously can't EX-Shield, but you can shield counter. What are some combos you can do off of F-Sion's shield counter?
To sum this big post up: I block too damn much. How do I be more disrespectful with F-Sion when I get rushed down?
I bolded my biggest questions for people who don't feel like reading the whole post.
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623A j214C is stupidly hard to deal with on wakeup unless the character you're facing has really good meaty and can stick out a very active normal. Otherwise feel free to spam this since it's recovery on whiff is godlike, it's + on block, yatta yatta. Even if they have meaty that can just beat 623A, you can just use a real dp. :/
2A is a very good normal to mash when you think they're going to dash back in during a closer blockstring. If they're too far, contemplate either just jumping out after respecting to a space where they push themselves out and using your good airmovement or mash out with 5B/2B? Not too sure how viable 5B/2B are; you can ask Tonberry later about that.
Basically just wait til they push themselves out and then work with the space you've been granted by jumping or defending you declaring your space. If they start to get far too aggressive and do unsafe resets too often, just mash 2A. DPing inbetween stings is kinda risky but since your pokes aren't the best feel free to exploit more obvious strings with it
Hope this helped out a bit.
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I often forget that 623A can be canceled into an EX. That will help quite a bit actually. Now I just wait for responses from others.
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As far as combos off of shield counter go, F-Sion is sort of limited. After messing around in training mode there were three combos I came up with:
236D 5B j.ABC j.ABC Air Throw: 2.2k on Arc. Works anywhere and easy as shit
236D 22A (whiff) 2A 5B j.BC Air Throw: 1.7k on Arc. Use when back is to corner. Low air throw gives you forward tech punish with falling j.C
236D 2C 214A- 1k on Arc. Sacrifices damage to get left/right mixup if you do j.8 or j.7 air dash afterwards.
Seeing as she can't combo into 214B off shield counter, she can't go into her BEj.C combos, and doing them off 3B isn't worth it.
Edit: this discussion should probably be moved to PS2 MBAA forum
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Probably, but a lot of it still applies to Current Code. Besides, there really isn't any activity on the MBAA board now, so I figured it would be easier to post this here where more people could bump into it.
Actually, that's just a half-assed OS I was going to use to try and make myself look/feel less stupid. I honestly didn't realize that the MBAA and MBAC archives got their own boards. I thought they just...disappeared with the Melty Bread makeover since the Current Code boards stick out like a sore thumb and the old stuff used to be put in archive sub-forums for each character.
:nyoro:
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A couple universal defense tips
- You need to be able to block most characters overheads on reaction at least most of the time. With most overheads that is completely viable.
- If they're an H-Moon or C-Moon character you can generally wait until your opponent pushes themselves out a good amount before trying to jump out/mash 5b. 5b catches both IAD and dash back in.
- If they are playing a character where they can stay in for a long time relatively safely you need to be able to EX guard fairly well.
- Learn how your opponent likes to pressure. If they keep going for pressure resets in a certain way, mash those points.
F-Sion specifically
- If they OS shield counters, do 5[d]/2[d] 623a/623b.
- Mash 623b in blockstrings if you're confident they are going to keep pressuring.
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Don't listen to them! Mashing 2a is scrubby and ugly, and even if it work sometimes you wont have any merit. People will begin to meaty/stagger you allday. Same will happen if you use 623A 214C or 623A j.214C. Both are just punishable gimmicks and you have to avoid them as a serious player. Also 623A doesnt have invincibility. Mashing 623B is also scrubby. You gotta know all of your opponent options, so you can choose the less bad choices. Choose the ones that will lead to less damage if punished / more change of going back to neutral (jump forward is universally godlike for Sions, but go deeper and learn your opponents options).
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Why is it scrubby to mash dp when you KNOW they are going to stagger? Why is it scrubby to mash on 2a when you KNOW your opponent is going to do something unsafe? Oh wait, it isn't. It's not like that's all I said to do on defense.
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Why is it scrubby to mash dp when you KNOW they are going to stagger? Why is it scrubby to mash on 2a when you KNOW your opponent is going to do something unsafe? Oh wait, it isn't. It's not like that's all I said to do on defense.
You're right about it, but you should never know that. You can trust your yomi, but that's all. In high level matches you'll want to play safe, because the opponent will know what you want to do, and his yomi is as good as your, but he has the momentum advantage, what makes the things much more risky to you. The truth is there is never a right moment to try something to get out of the pressure. Every gap you see can (should) pretty much be a trap. If it's not, blame the player. It's so risky to use DP when your opponent created his gameplay/style also based in being safe against DP and MB gives so many options to that. It may work a lot, but that's playing against the stereotype of an opponent that doesnt have a safe gameplay. Playing against that stereotype will bring you bad habits. In theory you have to play against the game and only make exceptions when you see the things you can punish if you play against the opponent. That's what I think..
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In high level matches you'll want to play safe, because the opponent will know what you want to do, and his yomi is as good as your, but he has the momentum advantage, what makes the things much more risky to you. The truth is there is never a right moment to try something to get out of the pressure.
I agree that most of the time you should just block. The thing is though, some characters either have such overwhelming mixup that if you just try and sit there and block for a long time you are guaranteed to lose. F-Ries and F-Akiha are good examples of characters that have essentially infinitely unmashable blockstrings that keep them close to you without lowering damage from rebeats. Sometimes you CAN'T just sit there and block.
Every gap you see can (should) pretty much be a trap. If it's not, blame the player. It's so risky to use DP when your opponent created his gameplay/style also based in being safe against DP and MB gives so many options to that. It may work a lot, but that's playing against the stereotype of an opponent that doesnt have a safe gameplay. Playing against that stereotype will bring you bad habits. In theory you have to play against the game and only make exceptions when you see the things you can punish if you play against the opponent. That's what I think..
While most of the time, gaps ARE traps, they're usually frametraps. Your opponent is staggering so that you can't jump/mash. This means that you CAN DP. Should you treat that as a get out of jail free option? No. However, there IS an opportunity to get out in your opponents blockstrings. Again, you should generally just take the safe route and block but sometimes that isn't possible.
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You're right about it, but you should never know that. You can trust your yomi, but that's all.
Aren't you just rephrasing the same....okay whatever. I took all of the inputs into consideration and I'll mess with it later on when I get some matches in again. Time to start being disrespectful because I'm happy when my opponent can't do jack squat. :toot:
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Why is it scrubby to mash dp when you KNOW they are going to stagger? Why is it scrubby to mash on 2a when you KNOW your opponent is going to do something unsafe? Oh wait, it isn't. It's not like that's all I said to do on defense.
You're right about it, but you should never know that. You can trust your yomi, but that's all. In high level matches you'll want to play safe, because the opponent will know what you want to do, and his yomi is as good as your, but he has the momentum advantage, what makes the things much more risky to you. The truth is there is never a right moment to try something to get out of the pressure. Every gap you see can (should) pretty much be a trap. If it's not, blame the player. It's so risky to use DP when your opponent created his gameplay/style also based in being safe against DP and MB gives so many options to that. It may work a lot, but that's playing against the stereotype of an opponent that doesnt have a safe gameplay. Playing against that stereotype will bring you bad habits. In theory you have to play against the game and only make exceptions when you see the things you can punish if you play against the opponent. That's what I think..
You are not thinking correctly, I want you to stop and reread what you said, and then edit your post and make sense.
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The truth is there is never a right moment to try something to get out of the pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value
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You are not thinking correctly, I want you to stop and reread what you said, and then edit your post and make sense.
What exactly is not making sense? I'll fix it.
While most of the time, gaps ARE traps, they're usually frametraps. Your opponent is staggering so that you can't jump/mash. This means that you CAN DP. Should you treat that as a get out of jail free option? No. However, there IS an opportunity to get out in your opponents blockstrings. Again, you should generally just take the safe route and block but sometimes that isn't possible.
I agree with that. The way things were being putted before was like "mash 2A and DP and be happy". Mashings takes to nowhere. I don't like when people makes such a complex game look so simple. People got to observe, got to think, got to know the frame stuff, got to calculate risks to get out of the pressure. My problem is with the word "mash".
I agree that DP can be a viable when the player can use it wisely, but sadly it might be like 3% of the cases... To the rest using DP in their gameplay might do more harm then good. Other bad thing about DP is that if you miss it you'll receive full punish combo. And if you suceed doing it you'll do some damage and usually get back to neutral. While if you try to jump (having the yomi to choose when to jump), there is a not bad chance of escaping and getting back to neutral, and even if you get punished you'll get like 2.8k average, and also there is the chance of your opponent not confirmating it into a combo. You can choose a move to get hit that will be hard for the opponent to confirm it into a combo or sucessfuly jump out. The reward is the same, but the risk to me seems much lower when you jump out.
The truth is there is never a right moment to try something to get out of the pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value
If you don't understand your opponent options he will manipulate your sense of expectation. After you know his options, yes, you can DP sometimes, but it's still a very high risk / low reward bet imo.
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I agree that most of the time you should just block. The thing is though, some characters either have such overwhelming mixup that if you just try and sit there and block for a long time you are guaranteed to lose. F-Ries and F-Akiha are good examples of characters that have essentially infinitely unmashable blockstrings that keep them close to you without lowering damage from rebeats. Sometimes you CAN'T just sit there and block.
While most of the time, gaps ARE traps, they're usually frametraps. Your opponent is staggering so that you can't jump/mash. This means that you CAN DP. Should you treat that as a get out of jail free option? No. However, there IS an opportunity to get out in your opponents blockstrings. Again, you should generally just take the safe route and block but sometimes that isn't possible.
Why is it scrubby to mash dp when you KNOW they are going to stagger? Why is it scrubby to mash on 2a when you KNOW your opponent is going to do something unsafe? Oh wait, it isn't. It's not like that's all I said to do on defense.
^ Quoted for much truth.
Also, is her bunker so bad it's not even an option?
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Also, is her bunker so bad it's not even an option?
Bunkers outside of H moon must be done during hitstop of moves as opposed to H, where they only need to be in blockstun.
This it's infinitely harder to time and far easier to punish. It costs 50 less meter though and can be done on some setups [Read: Ryougi 22C]
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You are not thinking correctly, I want you to stop and reread what you said, and then edit your post and make sense.
What exactly is not making sense? I'll fix it.
The whole thing.
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I don't like when people makes such a complex game look so simple.
1.) :V
People got to observe, got to think, got to know the frame stuff, got to calculate risks to get out of the pressure.
2.) You almost make the second statement sound like observing, thinking, knowing frame data, and properly taking risks are exclusive to this game and have no business anywhere else. I recall it being extremely helpful to know all of that stuff in pretty much every fighting game.
My problem is with the word "mash".
3.) Your problem with the word "mash" is that you're taking it too literally. You're taking a lot of things that were posted here too literally and responding like everyone else is a bunch of idiots. I don't know about you, but when I tell someone they have to mash a poke to shut something down, I don't expect them to go out and mash that poke on defense at every given opportunity like they have the button set on turbo. That's just stupid.
When someone says "mash," typically they mean throw out a fast light poke 1-3 times because that's an amount that is sensible, usually safe, and will guarantee that you catch them if you guessed right. You're obviously not paying enough attention to the JP match videos if you're making such a big deal about this term. They do it, too! In fact, Chest often throws out a 2A to shut down pressure begging to be punished because it works and if he guesses wrong, he's usually safe. Perfect example right here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G6YXHF6ZtXg#t=989s) when he's fighting an Akiha. He throws out the 2A because he expects an unsafe run-in, but they super jumped instead, so he's safe for guessing wrong anyways. Later on (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G6YXHF6ZtXg#t=1072s) in the same match, he does it again and it works.
The only problem here is that you're taking the term "mash" too literally. Personally, I love mashed potatoes, especially when they have a lot of salt in them. I hate M.A.S.H. though, screw that show.
I'd continue this to talk about DP'ing, but it's much of the same discussion and I'm not up to putting too much effort on this. More likely than not, you'll take me for an idiot and completely ignore my points here. ANYWAYS thanks again everyone for your inputs. They helped me get an idea of what to do on defense a little more and I'll be sure to experiment during casual matches to improve my ability to apply these options.
One last thing though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value
This is a great article and I suggest you read it again because you obviously don't understand.
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You're taking a lot of things that were posted here too literally and responding like everyone else is a bunch of idiots. I don't know about you, but when I tell someone they have to mash a poke to shut something down, I don't expect them to go out and mash that poke on defense at every given opportunity like they have the button set on turbo. That's just stupid.
More likely than not, you'll take me for an idiot and completely ignore my points here.
Not really. Sorry if I sounded arrogant, that wasnt my intention. I'm too literal because I only know theory english, since I never had real practice. I didnt mean to sound like a dick, if I did. Some people I know will literally mash 2a and say people on MeltyBread says it's legit (there were already two people who came with this). I don't think any of you guys are idiots or stupid, and I didn't want to sound like it. I'm just trying to help with the best intentions.
And I understand that article.
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Oh now that makes a bit more sense. I understand and I'm glad to have that cleared up. No hard feelings?
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Oh now that makes a bit more sense. I understand and I'm glad to have that cleared up. No hard feelings?
Sure. You are a Sion player. Let's take over the world! :bleh:
Discussing, people can show their point of view and later pick the best things out of every poing of view or discuss minor things they still disagree. That's why I wont have hard feelings discussing also, when it comes to theory of games. I think it's productive.. For example, Inso and me discuss and disagree in every single point of the game (and of the life too probably lol), but we still play offline and get along well.
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Bunkers outside of H moon must be done during hitstop of moves as opposed to H, where they only need to be in blockstun.
This it's infinitely harder to time and far easier to punish. It costs 50 less meter though and can be done on some setups [Read: Ryougi 22C]
Well, I asked on the basis that you'll try to time a DP throught stagger pressure (and not only pressure resets), in that case going for bunker wouldnt be too far off.
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Well, I asked on the basis that you'll try to time a DP throught stagger pressure (and not only pressure resets), in that case going for bunker wouldnt be too far off.
You can do that too but if the bunker is slightly off ideal timing you eat full bnb.
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I didnt feel like reading everything but every defensive option is viable. you just have to know how to use it.
2a mash? how dare you use your fastest poke to try and hit the opponent. Decent range too.
DP? Best DP in the game. hard to clash, air unblockable, hit behind her, invincible.
Shield? moon dependent. get a few options off of it.
421 slide? randomly go through move and a lot of people don't know how to deal with it.
Bunker? longest range bunker in the allowing you to get out of stuff others cant get out of. doesn't hit up close some times and easy to get over.
Jump? why not. its an anime game.
dodge? iffy. you move forward and useful in situations but slow to recover. Your not kohaku unfortunately. but fortunately your not miyako.
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You can confirm H-Sion 5c air CH with or without trade into 214b which is pretty gdlk.
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DP? Best DP in the game. hard to clash, air unblockable, hit behind her, invincible.
Yeah that shit will wig out and completely turn around to heat-seek people who have safely crossed it up.
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welp with the demo out I theorize its possible for cSion to get a reload combo with the new OTG system. If she can somehow land a BE6b in the combo without the use of 5[c], she will be able to 22d reload and pickup with 236a into combo. i haven't found a way yet but i'm hoping with the combined minds of the sion forum we can find a way.
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*6{B}
I'm pretty sure the only way to combo into BE6B is with 421C(2) j.214C in the corner.
I did some testing and it seems like its only possible with low gravity:
eg. 5B 2B 3C 421C(2) j.214C BE6B 22D etc...
Anymore hits before the 3C and there's not enough time to land BE6B.
However this setup isn't worth it for 2 bars, doing a j.[C] loop after the 236A pickup gives less damage than if you just did the standard 421C combo into 214A ender, and you don't get oki.
If you wanted to reload you should just end with 236C.
Although maybe someone else can figure out a better combo into BE6B.
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She can combo into BE6B off 5[C] wallslam in the corner after 421C j214A.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oMqZW8it_I#t=13m20s
If you meant to include that, sorry I kinda skimmed your post since I have finals really fucking soon.
Yuu <3
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Yea that's what Tempered meant.
After 5[C] BE6B, if you do 22D 236A, that's 3 bounces, so you can't continue the combo.
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She can combo into BE6B off 5[C] wallslam in the corner after 421C j214A.
land a BE6b in the combo without the use of 5[c]
:laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo:
Try off falling and IAD back jC CH.
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Try off falling and IAD back jC CH.
Yea that works fine, although then you're sacrificing ~2k damage (compared to j.[C] loop off air CH) for a free reload.
Not sure if it's worth it, but at least it doesn't cost meter.
Another notable change, since 236C actually picks up OTG now, this OTG combo: 2A 5AA 5B 5C 623A 236C works properly.
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off of CH j.c is lame. and yeah I did figure after 623c with low enough hits you can j214c. but as mentioned totally not worth it. ill probably fuck around with it more but i'm not hopeful.
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Been playing H-Sion in the demo...this is the best shit I could find with her
confirm>5C,(5A,6AA,214B,dash,2B,5B,5C)x2, (5A,6A,2C,3C,623A(2 hits),214C,wait,2B,5B,5C)x2 5A6A,2C, HARD KNOCKDOWN.
Normally just do 1 214C and don't bother with the second, only a bit more damage.
If you do 214A after a long combo it doesn't hard knockdown, I didn't really play her in the PS2 version and don't feel like booting it up to check exactly how it works but it sounded like before after a long combo 214 would whiff and that it always caused hard knockdown, now if done to late you can tech out of it it seems to be about the same combos work to get the hard knockdown but now 2C appears to hard knockdown too which there wasn't a huge flashing label on the wiki about 2C being a hard knockdown that lasts for a while but there ya go.
So from what I know the old cutting sync combos on the wiki work, been messing around with getting a bit more damage out of them with adding in 623A before cutting sync, but doing this prevents a 214B from what I can tell...but you can 2C3C,623A,421C,214A,land,2C5C3C,421C,214A,land,214B
I don't see a mention of it anywhere in the wiki but air to air counter hit 623A(2hits),214C is a great way to confirm off air to airs if you don't have time to 214B or 214C immediately.
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If you do 214A after a long combo it doesn't hard knockdown, I didn't really play her in the PS2 version and don't feel like booting it up to check exactly how it works but it sounded like before after a long combo 214 would whiff and that it always caused hard knockdown, now if done to late you can tech out of it it seems to be about the same combos work to get the hard knockdown but now 2C appears to hard knockdown too which there wasn't a huge flashing label on the wiki about 2C being a hard knockdown that lasts for a while but there ya go.
I noticed this too. Happens due to hitstun proratiion or something, but what you can do and I think works is before you do your confirm into 214A, add in a couple of 2As. It's what I recall seeing in some jp matches and I'm pretty sure it works. It should add just a touch of gravity such that after 214A, they hit the ground a bit quicker. I think.
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So wait add in some more 2As before I 2C,214A, guess I'll give it a shot.
214A hits OTG not sure if it was always this way, but I can 2C wait 1 whole second then 214A and it will connect.
623B is now super cancelable as well so yay 623B,214C for comedy good AA.
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So wait add in some more 2As before I 2C,214A, guess I'll give it a shot.
214A hits OTG not sure if it was always this way, but I can 2C wait 1 whole second then 214A and it will connect.
623B is now super cancelable as well so yay 623B,214C for comedy good AA.
Yeah. I think you should only need like 2 2As. Again, I'm a little unsure on this, but it's been working for me when I do:
2AB 5BC 6AAA 214B dash 2B5BC 6AAA 214B dash 2AA5BC 2C 214A
And yeah, 214A always hit OTG. Random sillyness: j214A did in PS2 too. Not that it mattered. :V Still does.
623B is EX Cancellable now? Time to check on that. If it is, then wow.
EDIT: 623B Isn't EX cancellable... if it was that'd be silly though. Tried it and nothing cancelled. :V
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I just checked it again I could of sworn I did it in a match :/, must of just done the A version by mistake why I would do the A version instead of the the B is weird though.
Yep 2 2As work like a charm found out I can do2AA,5BC,6AA,2C,214A as well and get it to work but if I put a 2B between the 6AA and the 2C doesn't work, now to try getting this stuff working off 214C loops too.
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Some other changes I've noticed about C-Sion.
6C 4C can actually be staggered now and you can OTG after the 6C 4C knockdown (eg into 214A/C) which is a pretty significant buff.
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im pretty sure youve always been able to otg after 6c4c. been too long too remember, just rarely hits since you just do it.
Anyways ultamite reload combo. CH 3c BE6b 22d 236a 5abc j.c j.[c] j.[c] j214a rejump j.bc j.bc air throw.
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Hey. New to Sion, just started playing her with the MB:AA:CC demo. Since I started, I've been going through this thread and looking for things to help me. But I am just going to be outright specific right now.
I'm looking to learn how to do her charged j.C loop. I can get the three j.c's out but I can't do the 214a in the air to get to the ground and reset the loop. Is it still possible in this game or do I just really suck?
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Hey. New to Sion, just started playing her with the MB:AA:CC demo. Since I started, I've been going through this thread and looking for things to help me. But I am just going to be outright specific right now.
I'm looking to learn how to do her charged j.C loop. I can get the three j.c's out but I can't do the 214a in the air to get to the ground and reset the loop. Is it still possible in this game or do I just really suck?
It all still works, and you can cancel j.214A from j.[C], but there is a minimum height to do specials I believe.
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Hey. New to Sion, just started playing her with the MB:AA:CC demo. Since I started, I've been going through this thread and looking for things to help me. But I am just going to be outright specific right now.
I'm looking to learn how to do her charged j.C loop. I can get the three j.c's out but I can't do the 214a in the air to get to the ground and reset the loop. Is it still possible in this game or do I just really suck?
You might be inputting too early, too fast or maybe too late. Input the j.214 calmly a little before the j.[C] hits, when the hit counter count the j.[C] or a little later, press A. You're probably missing because you want to rush it since you know the timing to continue the combo is strict...
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You might be inputting too early, too fast or maybe too late. Input the j.214 calmly a little before the j.[C] hits, when the hit counter count the j.[C] or a little later, press A. You're probably missing because you want to rush it since you know the timing to continue the combo is strict...
I think so. But after some testing with a214 in the air, I realize that...
It all still works, and you can cancel j.214A from j.[C], but there is a minimum height to do specials I believe.
Is correct. So I guess I have to do some practicing with the combo itself. Now is this something I should only try on counter hit or is there an ideal setup for this loop?
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You can start it off any standard ground string, air counter hit, or air throw. The minimum height restrictions for j.214A should never matter during the combo.
The only thing you may need to worry about is gravity. With a short ground string, you'll need to skip the air dash j.[C] and just do j.[C] dj.[C] j.214A etc.
I recorded some typical setups into the j.[C] loop here.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UEF78YND
Or you can wait for Frostbolt to upload the edited version whenever he's done with it.
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/kohaku's-video-room/all-character-bnb-videos/
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You can start it off any standard ground string, air counter hit, or air throw. The minimum height restrictions for j.214A should never matter during the combo.
The only thing you may need to worry about is gravity. With a short ground string, you'll need to skip the air dash j.[C] and just do j.[C] dj.[C] j.214A etc.
I recorded some typical setups into the j.[C] loop here.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UEF78YND
Or you can wait for Frostbolt to upload the edited version whenever he's done with it.
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/kohaku's-video-room/all-character-bnb-videos/
I just downloaded the videos. Awesome stuff. Thank you very much for the info. Also, I'll keep and eye out for Frostbolts vid. Thanks.
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I like gave up doing more than 2 j[c] in a combo seriously. I just cant do it :/...
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its all about the delays. hard to explain but its like 3c j.[c] delay airdash j.[c] double jump delay j.[c] j214a rejump bc bc airthrow. if you see me in the #mbaa channel I can throw up a quick stream and show off the timing.
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I have a question,did anyone manage to do valid otg string into gunshot? I can't seem to do it for the life of me,even though I know its possible because Yuu does it all the time.
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It's probably hitbox dependent.
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I wouldnt be able to say without seeing it. I imagine it would be pretty hard as gunshot hit box is ridiculously small
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So what is the best moon for Sion?
I played H throughout the demo, but it seems C been getting all the hype... idk bout F.
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overall F is probably the best in my opinion, less tools but generally more solid. C has something to deal with everything though. H is just easy mode.
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Most of the good Sion switch between h/f or c/f it's kind of match up dependent.
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Pick the moon that gives you at least two advantageous angles in the air.
CH_Sion_JA loses to F_VSion_JA from every angle that counts so you need to play F.
F_Sion 5th frame JA is extremely helpful against HF_Ryougi air normals.
ヨミ plays F against C_Mech. ユウ plays F against F_Aoko.
ユウ plays H against C_Hisui because J2C is no help and 5a matches up better with Hisui's 2a.
Until recently I felt Sion without cutting sync is sacrilege.
I was wrong. Tempered is right.
You need to fight 5th frame JA with 5th frame JA.
Exception to the rule is Sion mirror. C > H > F.
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H-Sion option selects: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6nzstztkJI
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Kiriya's F Sion aircounter follow up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIhj3q3DBo#t=2m36s
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09:09… @Tempered: oh my god
09:09… @Tempered: I think i just stumbled onto somthing
09:10… @Tempered: sion can mixup what side she lands on after airthrow if the opponent forward techs
09:10… @Tempered: so she cant punish it directly, but she gets a mixup...
09:12… @Tempered: and it still allows her to j214c for neutral and back techs
seems like a good idea.
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09:09… @Tempered: oh my god
09:09… @Tempered: I think i just stumbled onto somthing
09:10… @Tempered: sion can mixup what side she lands on after airthrow if the opponent forward techs
09:10… @Tempered: so she cant punish it directly, but she gets a mixup...
09:12… @Tempered: and it still allows her to j214c for neutral and back techs
seems like a good idea.
An Explanation would be pretty cool, also f-sion can punish forward tech it's just like 1f (yey slightly faster 2a).
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oh right. Well the end of the air combo is what it comes down to. If you do like jump forward or air dash ender. you end up in the corner after air throw when you land. if you jump straight up you're a bit farther out of the corner. when you land you will be outside of the corner. it'll be in the vid i'm making but I doubt it needs to be shown off to understand.
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Oh so just do for example with h-sion:
2a 2b 2c 5c j9.bc dj8.bc 6e <- land with opponent still in corner
2a 2b 2c 5c j.9bc dj9.bc 6e <- land with opponent outside corner
That's pretty nifty.
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Hey everyone. I'm new here and I've been playing MBAACC casually with my local fighting game group, currently focusing on H-Sion because I kinda remember her from MBAC. I have a few questions if you don't mind.
1) What's the notation for the whip loop used in this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWsNoiUMU3Y&feature=related. The only BnB video I know of is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyAe9g_mV2c
2) How hard are the j.C air combos? Are they like SSF4 2 or 3 frame links, or are there other factors that I don't know of?
3) Is it always safe to use 236a as a blockstring, or does it only work when, say, it follows a 5C rather than just a bunch of jabs or 6a's? We're all pretty scrubby in my group and people jab out of pressure and dropped combos a lot.
4) Should I be comboing differently in the corner or should I just try to keep them in the corner? She has a move that I never use that seems good for corner stuff. I think it's 421C.
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The combo is whatever into 5a6aa 214b 5a6aa 214b 5b 2c 214a
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Hey everyone. I'm new here and I've been playing MBAACC casually with my local fighting game group, currently focusing on H-Sion because I kinda remember her from MBAC. I have a few questions if you don't mind.
1) What's the notation for the whip loop used in this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWsNoiUMU3Y&feature=related. The only BnB video I know of is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyAe9g_mV2c
2) How hard are the j.C air combos? Are they like SSF4 2 or 3 frame links, or are there other factors that I don't know of?
3) Is it always safe to use 236a as a blockstring, or does it only work when, say, it follows a 5C rather than just a bunch of jabs or 6a's? We're all pretty scrubby in my group and people jab out of pressure and dropped combos a lot.
4) Should I be comboing differently in the corner or should I just try to keep them in the corner? She has a move that I never use that seems good for corner stuff. I think it's 421C.
1. Which combo? What time?
2. They're harder. They involve precise timing in lots of it's attacks. Precise cancels, height recognization, number of hits knowledge (gotta know what is possible since the number of hits changes the gravity and the hitstun) and some more stuff I might be forgetting.
3. Always, if it's predictable, it's punishable. 236A is not a hard move to punish.
4. H-Sion has her happy whip loop combo. It's the best choice in most of the cases (unless you want to do more damage to kill). Her loop combo is:
starter -> 2B 5C 6AAA 214B dash 2A 5B 2B 5C 6AAA 214B dash 2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 214A
You can't use 5A before 6AAA or you can't use 6AAA (it's actually 5A 6AA). You also can't let the number of hits pass 24 or 214A wont do a hard knockdown (you lose the momentum, which is the most important thing in Melty Blood).
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1. Which combo? What time?
Something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OWsNoiUMU3Y#t=343s). I guess those attacks at the end are all 5A 6AA?
Anyway, thanks. Also, how long is the EX shield active for?
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1. Which combo? What time?
Something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OWsNoiUMU3Y#t=343s). I guess those attacks at the end are all 5A 6AA?
Anyway, thanks. Also, how long is the EX shield active for?
That combo was: j.B 2B 5C 5A 6AA 214B dash 2B 5B 5C 5A 6AA 214B dash 5B 5C 214A
The EX shield must be done almost in the same time your opponent's attack will hit. I don't know exactly how many frames but it might be 3-5. It's cancelable in any move when you sucessfully EX shielded a move. The shield in the other hand is only cancelable in command moves, but it stays active for much longer.
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So I'm working on a new project. I will be making a CMV that utilizes all 3 moons for Sion. Anyone got any combo ideas? I'll be working to find some myself in the meantime.
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This:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VB_Pr1UbGw
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Hm, I'm having trouble figuring out how to use H-Sion's 6B overhead. Does it always cancel into other moves on hit and never on block? That's what I thought at first, but I noticed that it leads comfortably into 6AAA if I start a combo with it, but a lot of the time when I land a random 6B while my opponent had blocked a bunch of previous attacks, it doesn't cancel into 6A or 5C or anything and I get punished for it. How exactly is the move supposed to work? Am I just not pressing the follow-up attacks early enough, or are there situations in which 6B doesn't lead to a combo?
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I don't play HSion so don't trust me on this, but I believe Sion 6B isn't cancelable on block. BE6B, however, is.
EDIT: And on hit, both are cancelable. BE6B launches, though, with untechable both air and ground.
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So I'm working on a new project. I will be making a CMV that utilizes all 3 moons for Sion. Anyone got any combo ideas? I'll be working to find some myself in the meantime.
For F-Sion: IAD j.BC dash 5A 2A 5A 2A 5B 2B 5C 214B 623A j.214C 236A 214C dash 5A 2A 5A 2A 5B 2B 5C 214B 5B 3C BEj.C BEj.C j.214A dj.ABC j.AABC airthrow
I tried to record this, but failed repeteadly.. It's hard to do all the A's after the 214C, but it's very flashy imo..
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I don't play HSion so don't trust me on this, but I believe Sion 6B isn't cancelable on block. BE6B, however, is.
EDIT: And on hit, both are cancelable. BE6B launches, though, with untechable both air and ground.
same in all moons so this is correct.
So I'm working on a new project. I will be making a CMV that utilizes all 3 moons for Sion. Anyone got any combo ideas? I'll be working to find some myself in the meantime.
Sion combo videos generally involve alot of j.[c] and meter
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Thanks. Sorry but what does the BE in BE6B mean?
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Charged version.
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I have a question,did anyone manage to do valid otg string into gunshot? I can't seem to do it for the life of me,even though I know its possible because Yuu does it all the time.
The following strings prioritize corner carry.
Valid midscreen and corner.
| CIEL | 2b5b5c(2hit)_236a |
| SATSUKI | 2b5b5c(2hit)_236a |
| WARAKIA | 2a2b5c(2hit)_236a |
| ROA | 2a2b5c(2hit)_236a |
| POWERED_CIEL | 2a2b5c(2hit)_236a |
| NECO_ARC | 2a2b5c(1hit)_236a |
| NECO_CHAOS | 2a2b5c(1hit)_236a |
| SEIFUKU | 2a2b5c(1hit)_236a |
| AKIHA | 2a2b5c(1hit)_236a |
| KOUMA | 3c_236a |
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H-Sion's basic okizemes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_qlSkqZWCw
Also noticed that Half and Full Sion's 236C does more damage if you have 1-5 bullets in clip
Chart on Ciel (used F-Sion's 5C into 236C)
1-5 does 3155 dmg
6-10 does 2719 dmg
11-12 does 2283 dmg
All bullets does 1847 dmg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfbg5pgzrgU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxYGHcS0QCA
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z3UtfMQE-U&t=4m43s
Damage + restand combo
jb 2a5b5c 214b 9j[c] 8-6j[c] 214a 236a 214c...
In max or in a situation where you can loose 200 meter this could lead to some good damage i think.
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H-Sion's 236C into 214C after Air counter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HdYZS6v34I
picked from this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRRTuORdYJk&t=41m18s
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That's some really nice stuff. Sadly F can't do it, framesss.
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That is pretty sweet. I like that. I should test and see if C can pull that off.
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(C Sion)
I don't know if it's a new technology or not, but I found out delaying the airdash in the j.[C] combos in the corner can bring amazing results getting the opponent lower. I think it's possible to do 10 j.[C] in the corner with only 200%. If everything works out I'll be posting here later.
I'm giving myself a test, if I can do more then 9k in standing v.akiha with C Sion with 5B starters and not using more then 200% I might return to her if I can do the combos consistently.
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Consistently? good luck. But yeah delaying the airdash j.[c] is pretty critical to getting more of the loop off.
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H-Sion combos off BE6B. Tested on V.Sion:
BE6B BE6C 214B 2A 5B 2B 5C 5A 6AA 214B 2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 214A Dmg: 4436 Meter: ~70
BE6B BE6C delay 3C 623C(2 hits) j.214A 214B 2A 5B 2B 5C 5A 6AA 2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 214A Dmg: ~5000
Her whip is dumb and I love it.
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Anybody here knows H-Sion's Frame data?