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Author Topic: H-V.Sion  (Read 17451 times)

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Offline Sp00ky

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H-V.Sion
« on: December 13, 2008, 07:31:17 AM »
Mostly will go over changes and 'new' strategy, as 90% of her old mbac strats are intact.

Normals:

5A: Longer range than old one, otherwise pretty much the same.
(new) 6AAA: Half moon chain. Connects off 5C except at really long ranges, Sets up 2C to Akiha or Satsuki summon, usable in blockstrings to similar effects as the old 2C delay 2b tactics but doesn't hit low.

5B: A really awesome new normal where V.Sion swipes at air. this is awesome antiair, awesome in blockstrings, has 'Anti-A armor'.

5C: Same as in mbac but made Cancellable.

2A: same as mbac

2B: A new normal that still keeps its neutral frames on block but no longer hits low and has shorter range. do NOT use this in longer ange combos it will miss.

2C: Slightly sped up otherwise same as MBAC.

J.A: Same as MBAC

j.B: A new move with an awkard animation that makes it an excellent crossup. Apllicable similar to old Ciel j.B, now you can airdash at people freely and use this to hit even if you overshoot them.

j.C: same as MBAC.

Command normals:
6B: A strange new move where V.Sion points and creates a drill. This works similar to 236B on block having high + frames. It also has a lot of shield frames at the beginning making it a somewhat unwieldy anti-air. This is crouchable if not point blank.

6C: A new overhead. Chargable which adds range. dodges lows. dodges throws. anti-a armor. NOT cancelable, you must link after it to combo or connect with a summon.

3C: Old 3B

j:2B: anti A armor added.


Specials:

236X: Same as MBAC

623X: Same as MBAC. 623C now lands based on whether the first hit was blocked/shielded or not and does not have the same followups.

214X: Same as MBAC

Shields:
high: untechable 623A. free to use 2C xx summon or a bnb after it lands.

low: modified version of 2C. Cancellable (summons work best)

new notes:
Airthrow is techable. use land 5B or late j.2B to snuff techs where possible.
Losing 6B ground bounce requires heavy modification of summon combos.
Throw xx 2C is no longer a 1 frame link and much more viable.
Super double jump added.
Malice bnb is much easier, try 2AB 5B 2C 5C 623B j.BC airdash C sdj.ABC airthrow or other variations.
5A whiff 2A can replicate some old normal Sion tactics. Try 5C 2A whiff 2C 236B as a ghetto version of the old normal sion warning shot blockstrings.
 
Summon setting: 2AB 5B 5C 6AAA 2Cxx summon

Summon tricks:
6C is much more worthwhile than the old 6B in summon setups. It beats many more tactics such as defensive throws and 2A xx jump.

Throw breaks are worthless in the face of summon setups. Try 2ABC xx Satsuki Summon Meaty 2B5A dash up throw. On break satsuki hits 2C 5C 3C j.BC sdj.ABC airdash C airthrow. It's actually less damage for the opponent to TAKE the throw in this scenario.

Midscreen
2ABC akiha summon:

-----IAD B (hits meaty crossup) or IAD j.2B (fake crossup)
1)Akiha hits dash to corner 5C j.BC dj. BC airdash C airthrow
2)opponent blocks crossup: [6C or 2A] 5B 5C 6AAA 2C akiha summon



Offline Zero

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 05:29:38 PM »
This info actually makes me want to try H-VSion more instead of just going back to C-VSion. Good info.

Offline Benny1

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2008, 05:37:58 AM »
I'm still hoping that something good might happen to F-V.Sion in Ver.A that might make her more useful, but I'm not holding my breath.  What a shame, she looked pro.

I'm really, really liking this 5C cancellable thing.  I'm kinda weak at pressure still though, but whenever I used 5C, I felt like I was just begging to be punished for weak 236A xx 236C strings, an easy 236B backdash, or who knows what with a summon.  That's probably just because I suck at pressure right now.

Does this 5B have a BE version that moves her forwards?  And is her 5B neutral still?  Or are we stuck with using 2B for our neutral now.  Not that it hurts so bad with 5C being a lot more powerful.

Also, is 5B still high shield only and 2B low shield only?  Those were nice for people who really liked that wakeup shield spam, since they were pretty powerful meaties.

It's nice to know that Malice is easier, since I still have a ton of trouble connecting that for some reason.

Is there any change in connecting midscreen 236C, btw?  It seems like a lot of stuff like that is easier to connect now...
C-Wara main, H-Warc/F-Sion alt.

Offline Sp00ky

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2008, 12:42:04 PM »
Midscreen 236C is actually harder because of how far it pushes back on hit.

Shielding system changes are the same for everyone 5b's arent about to magically become low shieldable for anyone.

5B is just a 5B. It moves far enough at is it doesn't need a BE version. It moves about as far as 5C does.

F-V.Sion isn't about to get good without a massive change in her system.
No run
no summons
no multi hit 5C
no forced knockdown on airthrow
no thanks.


Offline Zaido

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2008, 09:13:24 PM »
she seems pretty lolz... F Vsion that is... if i ever play i will take that challenge!!! H VSion combo looks fun... might use it for a side :X...
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Offline Lolly

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 11:19:46 AM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm5703816
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm5706103

sup ver.a

have some 5k meterless combos , those 6c loops hurt
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 11:25:30 AM by Lolly »

Offline Sp00ky

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 04:02:33 PM »
I'll check again if that works in the original version but I could have sworn I tested 6C ground bounce and found that it just counted as a regular hit.

Offline Tanner

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 09:20:17 AM »
Good shit on the tutorial last night.  My computer crashed at the very end but I got most of it.  I didn't realize some of the combos I was using where out dated.  Been practicing the rejump combo and it really isn't as hard as it looks. 

Oh and ttt for more H-Vsion.

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2010, 02:41:00 PM »
Could some1 gimme a list of her combos coz the combo that i only know is this

2AAA > 2B > 2C > 5C > 23C(dat upper punch) > sdj.BC > dj.BC > 236B

or

2AAA > 2B > 2C > 5C > 23C(dat upper punch) > sdj.BC > dj.BC > 236C

I just want to learn about how to use with her 6C and moar

Offline Benny1

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2010, 05:48:32 PM »
2A 5B 5C 5A 6AA 6C dash 2C 5C 5B 3C j.BC dj.BC ad.C airthrow.

Something along those lines.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 09:46:15 PM »
As far as the set-up goes I don't know :emo:, srys... I don't use that set-up. Seems like it would be risky if miss-timed or read. It sounds interesting though, so I'll test it a bit tomorrow.

But I can answer the 6C6[C] question. Most of this info is unrelated to your set-up.

6C6[C] combos don't work on Len, White Len, Miyako, and the Nekos. Loli hit boxes are too small to hit. Unless you get a counter hit on something like a 5A6A~A stagger or a wall bounce, then 6C6[C] hits. Use 6C5A(wiff)6A(wiff)6A6C... mid screen and in corner.

On the flip side, 6C6[C] hits corner and mid screen on Riesbyfe, Arc, Wara, Nero and Ciel (and Archtype).

Every one else, 6C6[C] hits in the corner only. Use 6C5A(wiff)6A(wiff)6A6C... mid screen.

Also, I find the timing for mid screen 6C5A(wiff)6A(wiff)6A6C... on Kouma, Arc and Warc to be very... particular. Either it's not possible or their height must be controlled very precisely or 2C will hit invalid. Arc can be 6C6[C]ed but the others... Safer just to cut it short with one 6C rep. Or, 6C dash 6C also works, but it does a lot less damage for only 6% or so more meter.

-TexasTim-

-Edit #1-

I Tested the set-up on Miyako today. Works just fine on her. I'm not sure how to put the timing in perspective without doing the set-up on more than just Miyako and Ciel. However, it looks like you have to get right next to her and 6C before her wake-up animation starts. Make sure you're 6C dash 6C timing is as tight as you can make it so the 2nd 6C hits as soon as possible, and you have more time to dash in. I'll work more with that set-up on the rest of the cast.

Also a side note. It looks like this set-up is very vulnerable to wake-up dodge, shield and throw due to wiff 6C recovery. Especially wake-up throw.

-Edit #2-

Okay, I tested this a lot on every character. Here's my findings.

The key to setting this up is to 214C summon as soon as you can. You can delay it a bit with most of the cast, but with Miyako you cannot at all.

Vs Archtype, Satsuki and White Len you must delay your summon or it will totally wiff.

Vs Akiha you must 6C dash(lengthened as long as possable) 6C then 214C summon with no delay for you to be able to cross-up, however if you do not delay the summon will wiff. Therefore, this set-up will not work on Akiha.

Vs V-Akiha, S-Akiha, and the Nekos I am not able to cross-up at all, and don't think this set-up will work on them in that regard.

Please disregard  my statment in Edit #1: "Make sure you're 6C dash 6C timing is as tight as you can make it so the 2nd 6C hits as soon as possible, and you have more time to dash in." This does not matter.

Hope this helps... :D
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 02:36:36 PM by TheMaster_Rahl »

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2011, 07:30:30 PM »
Yeah I don't know why it seems so difficult to get this cross-up on S-Akiha, V-Akiha and Nekos. I've tried it for several hours and could not cross-up on them even once, but can do it 100% of the time on the rest of the cast. Akiha just refuses to help you kill Akiha...

-TexasTim-

Edit: I tested more with this set-up today. When you get a cross-up, you can be wake-up thrown out of this set-up every time. Wiff 6C recovery is too long to allow you to jump.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 06:58:13 PM by TheMaster_Rahl »

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 04:45:03 PM »
I'm board and tired of this board having no new info in forever, so I'ma post some random H-VSion info that I discovered at some point a while back.

2A5B5C6AAA6C6[C]2C5C5AAA5B623C corner combo cross-up set-up.
Originally, I thought this set-up depended on getting the opponent as high as you could, but that turned out not to be the case.
The combo 5B623C by itself, with proper timing, on a grounded, crouching or standing opponent will give you cross-up in the corner.
The key to setting this up is creating the right amount of space with move push back on hit between you and your opponent to allow 623C to pull the enemy's collision box off the corner.

623C works (I think) by hitting the opponent. Once hit it grabs the opponent into a standard animation. It achieves this standard by moving the opponent a set distance from you, or if that is not possible, then by moving you a set distance from him.

Being in the corner usually produces the latter, but with enough push back, you can pull them out of the corner, and their animation looks like it is in the corner until wake-up.

This set-up will work with any combo starter she has so long as the opponent is in the air, in the corner, and you can 2C them.
In general your spacing and timing up to this point don't matter for this set-up.
The standard spacing will be collision box to collision box for 6C or 6[C] into 2C or further away for 5A6AA into 2C.
Even with a slight walk back after 6C or 6[C] and before 2C the spacing does not matter.
This is because once you 5C, you are moved forward a lot.
You can see this by omitting the 5C after 6[C] from this combo in training mode.
Usually, like 99/100 times, you are in the proper space for the combo to work.
Once you 5C, you have to create the space needed for 623C cross-up to be possible.
The standard way is with 5AAA5B.
If you want cross-up capability in the corner with 5AAA5B, then you must land at least three 5As and the 5B.
Two 5As does not produce enough push back for cross-up, and (although I have not tested this because its harder to get 4) four 5As may put them too high for 623C to combo.

I find this combo to be extremely hard to execute at the 5AAA5B623C part.
The 2C has to be delayed so you hit them pretty low so that you can land three 5As.
The 5B has to be canceled into 623C in a very particular way.
The goal of the 5AAA5B is to create the push back needed to space the 623C so that a cross-up is possible.
If you are too close to the corner, 623C pushes you back to put the enemy's collision box in the corner, and a cross-up is not possible.
5AAA does not give you enough push back so a 5B is required, but 5B moves you forward during the animation.
So you must cancel the 5B into 623C very fast, after you get the push back and before the animation starts to move you forward or you will not get a cross-up.

If you replace the 5AAA5B623C with 5A6B623C you get the same corner cross-up set-up.
The benefit of using 6B is that it is active for much longer, giving you a wider window to cancel into 623C.
Its easier to execute because you already have the 6 input of 623C buffered from 6B.
The downside is that it nets you less damage (iIrc, but its not much less and the set-up is more important imo).
6B is also character specific, some characters need all 3 hits of 6B to hit to produce the push back required for a cross-up.
Some 1 or 2 hits of 6B is good enough. (I used to have this memorized but I cant remember which chars off the top of my head.)
On the characters requiring 3 hits of 6B the timing to cancel into 623C is less but not hard because the 6 input is buffered.

In short using 5A6B instead of 5AAA5B to set-up 623C corner cross-up will almost certainly net you more, successful cross-up opportunities.
I'm not sure why I have not seen JP use this set-up prior to CCv1.05 other than the less damage and 5AAA5B not being character specific.

A final note on 6B: Caution is advised using this mid screen.
6B moves your opponent too and 623C may not combo if you let it hit too many times or 2Ced without 5AAA capable timing.
You may also ignore the character specific nature of 6B mid screen.
Don't use this combo mid screen unless you are in max and about to run out of meter.
This set-up is meant to get cross-up in the corner.
There are other, better cross-up set-ups mid screen.
Using max meter on j236C is way better if you are close enough to the corner for the tech punish/otg set-up.

That is all.
-TexasTim-

Offline Rokunaya

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2011, 07:18:38 AM »
Is there some sort of notes or guide on how to properly punish the neutral tech in the corner? Forward techs are easy, but it feels neutral techs are far harder to land, and are far more reliant on the J2B timing and combo it was led into. Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2011, 11:55:56 AM »
I've been thinking about this for a while now, and think I'm getting it.
I believe the key to getting the proper dive kick angle for neutral tech punishes is high gravity and keeping the opponent as low to the ground as you can make them in your air combos.
If all you want is to punish the tech with dive kick, simply dive kick at the proper time (short delay after air throw).
If however you want to combo off said dive dick and not just go back into block strings, its a little more tricky.
Try your regular 2A5B5C5A6AA6C6[C] (max 10 hits) combo into (low)2C5C5BjABCdjABCAT(delay)j2B.
Omitting all the 5As after 5C and before 5B right before the air combo keeps them lower in the air without sacrificing too much gravity.
I have not tried this combo out enough to say that it works 100% of the time either. You may have to do djACAT or djCAT. Or cut out more air moves and just do jCdjBCAT or something.
And then there is timing the 2A or 5A after the j2B. To get it to combo, the dive kick has to hit low. How low? I'm not sure, but the lower, the better. I'm thinking waist high or lower.

Also, I'm not sure if it was like this in Ver. A, but I seem to recall that players would get more than 10 hits in a ground string using ...5A6AA6C6C5A6AA2C... and they could not tech the 2C nor the 2nd 5A6AA. So the ways of doing it in Ver. A may not work in PS2 or CC1.07, if that is what was required to set it up.

So instead of the combo above, you might try using 6C6C combos instead. Maybe some other combo starter is needed. I don't think so.
This is what I was going to test next and see what I get.
I'm fairly convinced that you can neutral tech punish off any air throw in the corner, so long as you are not too far out of the corner when you air throw.
I think you just need to get as much gravity as you can built up before the air combo, and then keep them low to the ground during the air combo.

Hope that helps you out.

-TexasTim-

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2011, 12:21:04 PM »
By the way, in those videos you can see the two variations which I refer to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eng6l9adj0w
0:22 to 0:30 is the second variation, his punish and the combo follow up (Too bad that Garu drop the combo in the end lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk5g2zj_vjc
2:26 to 2:31 is the first variation (but Hagi dont tech, so the punish is not performed)


In the 1st vid there @ about 53- 1:05 you see Garu get the punish, but he was too high for the follow up. He could have gone back into pressure there. Just have to be careful of shield.

-TexasTim-

Edit: Tangential note: lower air combos should not change forward tech punish timing.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:32:55 PM by TheMaster_Rahl »

Offline Tonberry

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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2011, 06:58:36 PM »
Just curious: what's optimal combo with j236c ender that gives autopilot 5c to punish techs in corner?
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2011, 08:57:34 PM »
I'm pretty sure you know what it is. I'll answer anyways. Standard combo:
2A5B5C5A6AA6C6[C]2C5C5AAA5BjBCdjBC236C. Same combo she autopilots all the time... 
dj is an 8 input for full combo punish if they tech: 5C5A6AA6C6[C]2C5C5AAA5B...
If you are real close to them and they tech then you get 5C2C3C.../Summon or just 5C5AWiff or nothing.
Controlling your air movement to get the right space from your opponent is needed. In general you want close to max range of j236C.
I've been board in training mode and done this combo back and forth across the screen for like 30 min before...
The chars that 6C6[C] dose not hit mid screen or corner replaces the 6[C] with 5A6AA6C.
Guess you could use 2B instead of 2A opener-uper... and I forget if 2B5B or 5B2B gives the extra 20 damage or so...

-TexasTim-

Edit 1: I never thought to compare the two before now, but this might do more damage if you find yourself in max:
2A5B5Ctk236CjCadBCjCsdjBC236C
or mid screen:
2A5B5Ctk236CjABCjCsdjBC236C (Space dependent adC can be added before j236C)
or corner only guard crush combo:
jBCdjAABC2B5C5A6AA2C5BjABCdjBC236C (opening air combo is char specific. If it does not work use jBCdjAAC...)

Never really tested the spacing for forward tech punish off these so not too sure if they work as desired.

Edit 2: And forgot to mention, vs Arc back turn 6C6[C] will not work mid screen.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 06:03:18 AM by TheMaster_Rahl »

Offline Rokunaya

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2011, 10:24:43 PM »
Thanks guys, I'll be hitting the lab with hvshi real soon when my swap disc arrives.

She's a really fun and strong character, can't wait to finish all this technical stuff with her first.
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2011, 10:38:55 AM »
Double post but I just remembered about Vsion's 623C setups in the corner. What's the benefit of going for this after a long loop, what combo should I do to go into it[I remember Tim using 6B 623C], and what kind of whichways/setups can I do off of this?

Thanks in advance
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2011, 01:21:06 PM »
Adding to the above...

The 2 standard set-ups are listed in one of my posts above.
Combos are:
2A5B5C5A6AA6C6[C]2C5C5AAA5B623C Higher damage, less char specific, harder to execute.
Just have to time 2C to make it 5AAA capable, and that is char specific.
or
2A5B5C5A6AA6C6[C]2C5C5A6B623C Less damage, more char specific, easier to execute.
Still best to have 5AAA capable timed 2C, but is not needed in most cases, and 6B is char specific on weather you need 1, 3 or does not matter how many hits of 6B.
(Ex: Ryogi needs 1 hit or 2(90% sure its 1 hit), nanaya needs 3, most it does not matter.)

Set-ups off of that include, but may not be limited to (or in other words, I don't know them all):
1.sj(1-9)wiffj2B: can be made pretty ambiguous with a slight delay (50/50 cross-up chance), can be made into obvious cross-up with more delay, can be made obvious fake cross-up with no delay.
2.sj(2-8)wiffj2B: same as above, but with more delay for ambiguous cross-up.
3.Wiff cross-up jB (9wiffjB) or (8~6wiffjB) or (8~6 land). (8~6) means neutral jump (8) and influence air movement with (6) to make cross-up ambiguous. Think Kouma or Miyako.
4.Cross-up air back dash jC (94A+BjC). {4A+B} and not {6A+B} b/c you crossed them up. Just air back dash further into the corner. This one may bait activation, but I have not tested it.
5. sj(1-9)6A+Bwiffj2B Double and triple cross-up wiff j2B. Hard to execute imo, can be made ambiguous with small delay of j2B.
6. Double cross-up jC (96A+BjC). Can be followed up with j2B or re-dash pressure or wait and see or a plus-frame special like 236B.
7. Meaty cross-up jBdj2B double cross-up.
8. Her only fuzzy-guard set-up that I know of... Hard as hell to do. I know very little about it. May be char specific. Deep cross-up jBdjC2B 2A2B5A6AA6C...
     Only ever seen Sp00ky do it (and one time at that), so he may know more.
After options 1,2,3,5, you can 2A or 5A or throw or 6C or 5B or arc drive or anything if they are scared enough.
Related note: 236C will beat wake-up activation and well timed 5B will clash with wake-up activation.

I've never tested the 3rd option(s) to see if they work like I described. I just think that they might. Have not tested the 7th option either. If 3 does not work try 7.
Option 3 and 5 may have worked in Ver. A, but not in PS2 due to increased 623C recovery. However, they may work again in CC1.07. Definitely get summon set-ups back in CC1.07.
(I'm assuming the reason why she cannot do summon set-ups after 623C in PS2 is b/c of increased 623C recovery, but I could be wrong.)

There are probably more set-ups. I don't know them. Anyone else have more? And please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these.

What's the benefit of going for this after a long loop?
By the above statement, I am assuming you mean, "What is the benefit of cross-ups set-ups in general." Mostly because it is the same benefit you get from this set-up as from any cross-up set-up. Sorry if I'm not understanding what you are trying to ask. :-[

As to the benefit of using this set-up, I believe there are two different views of meter management thought process with this char.
The following is opinion.

One: Get into max as many times as possible to be as aggressive as you can be as often as possible.
These tend to use this set-up only when in max with the theory that cross-ups mean that your opponent has to guess more often, and this set-up creates more opportunities for them to make a mistake, resulting in more overall potential damage output.

Two: Get close to 200% and use meter to prevent going into max, keeping your minimum meter near 100% as often as possible.
This allows for a more defensive strategy, as her best answer to pressure is to use meter for shield bunker or DP.

With this in mind, the benefit is close to the same. Same potential for enemy mistakes which translates into more damage on average. Depends only if you like to conserve 100% meter or not.

-TexasTim-

Edit 1: Just off preliminary testing: Options 3, 4, and 6 need revising.
Option 3 looks like it wont work at all. jB hits meaty unless you do it supper early (hell, if its safe it might look like you messed up j2B... :laffo:), and you may be too far away for neutral jump
    (8~6) to cross-up.
Option 4 looks like just 4A+B does not auto correct. Prolly needs an 8 input, which means something more like forward jump, instant air back dash into the corner (96587jC/jB) is needed.
    (I see Satsuki do this sometimes. Thats where I got the idea, but H-VSions air normals might not work right for it)
Option 6 looks like I'm getting 2 different ways to back dash: one that puts you out of range of jC and one that is way shorter and leaves you in range. I've looked at the input display.
    Can't see any difference, so I'm not sure how to get reliable set-up on this one. Also, j2B seems to be real hard to land as follow-up, but 5B combos...

Edit 2: Solved the option 6 back dash problem I was having. Looks like you can influence your air movement after air dashes by holding 6 and 4 inputs. Did not know this... :emo:
So option 6 looks like 94A+B~6jC. (was only looking at input display before the A+B...)

Note on notation: Options 4 and 6 notation can be confusing. (prolly just confusing myself and everyone else by mentioning it... :blah:)
Option 4: 9=forward jump, cross-up, (V-Sion does not reverse inputs until after a neutral jump input) hence the 6 notation. Bottom line is you need IAD motion towards the corner.
Option 6: 9=forward jump, cross-up, (V-Sion does not reverse inputs until after a neutral jump input) hence the 4 notation. Bottom line is you need dash input away from the corner.

Hey Pat. Did you know that in MB you can DI? :V
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 08:28:55 PM by TheMaster_Rahl »

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2011, 01:30:36 PM »
- Any starter > 5a6aa > 6c > (6[c]) > 2c > slight delay > 5c > 5a x 3 > 5b > 623c > Mixups
This is the strongest variation in terms of damage, but is very tricky. When I do this, sometimes i can crossup and others no, and I have no idea why  :psyduck:.

2A5B5C6AAA6C6[C]2C5C5AAA5B623C corner combo cross-up set-up.

The key to setting this up is creating the right amount of space with move push back on hit between you and your opponent to allow 623C to pull the enemy's collision box off the corner.

623C works (I think) by hitting the opponent. Once hit it grabs the opponent into a standard animation. It achieves this standard by moving the opponent a set distance from you, or if that is not possible, then by moving you a set distance from him.

Being in the corner usually produces the latter, but with enough push back, you can pull them out of the corner, and their animation looks like it is in the corner until wake-up.

I find this combo to be extremely hard to execute at the 5AAA5B623C part.
The 2C has to be delayed so you hit them pretty low so that you can land three 5As.
The 5B has to be canceled into 623C in a very particular way.
The goal of the 5AAA5B is to create the push back needed to space the 623C so that a cross-up is possible.
If you are too close to the corner, 623C pushes you back to put the enemy's collision box in the corner, and a cross-up is not possible.
5AAA does not give you enough push back so a 5B is required, but 5B moves you forward during the animation.
So you must cancel the 5B into 623C very fast, after you get the push back and before the animation starts to move you forward or you will not get a cross-up.

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 12:56:24 PM »
The only reason that I can think of for dive kick cross-up off air throw, is if you do a back turn combo and the opponent does not tech your air throw.
It's a glitch in PS2 version that is removed in CC.
But he did not do a back turn combo in that youtube link. So I don't know why it crossed up.
I've had this happen in matches before as well, and I remember always being surprised by it because it never happened in training mode. (I usually set the AI to tech.)
Maybe it depends on something the opponent does other than teching.
Sry, I don't know more. I'll try and find a better answer.

-TexasTim-

Offline Skwuck

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2011, 09:16:21 PM »
It might be similar to (H-)Sion's airthrow maybe..? I know for fact that you can do aircombo into airthrow in the corner and airdash afterward (Assuming you haven't used it), and that will let you crossup at times as H-Sion, maybe the others as well but I dunno. So maybe it's just a property of it or something?
Current Main: H-Sion
Alt: H-Kohaku
Planning on switching to H/C-Kohaku soon.

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: H-V.Sion
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2011, 10:40:42 PM »
Yeah, H-VSion has back turn glitch with throw and air throw.
I Worded my last post bad, and meant to include these with back turn combo... :emo:

This is all I've figured out so far:
1.After throw you can IAD/sj/(9)j/IADj2B/sj2B/(9)j2B and get cross-ups with glitch if the opponent does not tech.
The opponent has to be waking up or near waking up and you have to be at the screen edge when they do (I think).
2. After air throw you can ad/adj2B and get cross-ups with glitch if the opponent does not tech.
The opponent has to be waking up or near waking up and you have to be at the screen edge when they do (I think).

I have not gotten just air throw into j2B to cross-up in training mode. Ever. Happens to me in matches all the time though.
I've tried getting as much gravity as I could and getting as high as I could before air throw, but I cant do it.
I think it should work, and I think this back turn glitch is what we see in the vid.
But this is removed in CC so I would not worry about it too much.

A better answer, but still not good... as I cant reproduce what was in the vid... :gonk:

-TexasTim-