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Author Topic: Under Night In-Birth  (Read 176290 times)

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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #750 on: May 08, 2012, 04:12:58 PM »
Looks like the pushblock is probably the biggest comeback mechanic alongside the unlimited meter activation.
Their are those and then there is one thing that I think could be overlooked but might be a factor as a comeback mechanic. That is Grind, it has some defensive properties that would be rather handy in keeping a character alive after being hit... that said... it needs to be activated, and I am not familiar to anything else that grind has in terms of duration after activation (it doesn't seem to be long, but I could be wrong) or anything else. Still like Awakening, that is simply giving players more tools to use than some arbitrary advantage.
What are you talking about?  Grind only gives a bonus when you are in the lead for vorpal status, and as far as I could tell that only provides an offensive boost.  The only kind of activation relating to it is when you burn all your GRD to add in EXS meter.

Btw, Ehrik's comment was a joke.
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Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #751 on: May 09, 2012, 05:04:22 AM »
FB streaming on the 11th at 23:00 J-time.

Send questions here.

A part of me still stubbornly refuses to lose hope that this won't just be a Q&A on stream.

If it's Q&A with some footage in the background, I'll still be more than happy.
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Offline Sahgren

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #752 on: May 11, 2012, 12:37:14 AM »
Chibi Linne Wallpaper now available. Q&A is just people asking about how to abbreviate the name...

Offline FireBearHero

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #753 on: May 11, 2012, 05:09:35 PM »
The announcement of the comeback mechanic.  :emo: (I mean besides the one where you're good at the game)

I don't mind comeback mechanics so long as they don't give the losing player a huge arbitrary advantage while doing so.  So long as they are not arbitrary, and limited to players own actions.... (P4U's Awakening, SxT's Pandora, etc.), it's not as bad as most players have thought. That said, it's a matter of building these things with that in mind... giving the losing player a chance at making "the comeback" and not become this large red "I win, you lose" button.

And as the industry has shown quickly, this is something that is too easy to get wrong.

Being good at the game gives the losing player a chance at making a comeback.
Coming out on top of any situation (for example with an ultra) because you're rewarded for losing means you don't have to be good or as good at the game.
This makes worse players worse because the need to play well is negated by a degree.

So comeback mechanics are always, always, a bad addition to a fighting game. You may like it because you need the help, but it's just hurting you.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 05:12:31 PM by FireBearHero »

Offline 3IIIT

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #754 on: May 16, 2012, 03:33:21 PM »
The announcement of the comeback mechanic.  :emo: (I mean besides the one where you're good at the game)

I don't mind comeback mechanics so long as they don't give the losing player a huge arbitrary advantage while doing so.  So long as they are not arbitrary, and limited to players own actions.... (P4U's Awakening, SxT's Pandora, etc.), it's not as bad as most players have thought. That said, it's a matter of building these things with that in mind... giving the losing player a chance at making "the comeback" and not become this large red "I win, you lose" button.

And as the industry has shown quickly, this is something that is too easy to get wrong.

Being good at the game gives the losing player a chance at making a comeback.
Coming out on top of any situation (for example with an ultra) because you're rewarded for losing means you don't have to be good or as good at the game.
This makes worse players worse because the need to play well is negated by a degree.

So comeback mechanics are always, always, a bad addition to a fighting game. You may like it because you need the help, but it's just hurting you.

Part of the problem stems from the fact that some developers see a "need" to do something about the basic, inalienable fundamental of a fighting game: some one has to win and some one has to lose. But the comeback mechanic fails to do anything to really get around that. In the end, there is no way to make it so that "everybody is a winner" in the end.

Practically every other type of entertainment that can be taken to a competitive level, from actual sports to Chess to card games, don't have anything akin to this. So, why is it that fighting games "must" have this, I wonder...?

Offline Luckydude23

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #755 on: May 16, 2012, 06:52:37 PM »
So what's the comeback mechanic in the game? I was out of town for a bit and missed any new info. :-[

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #756 on: May 16, 2012, 09:39:04 PM »
As far as I know there isn't one in UNIB yet. There is an activation of some sort, but I don't remember what it does.

Practically every other type of entertainment that can be taken to a competitive level, from actual sports to Chess to card games, don't have anything akin to this. So, why is it that fighting games "must" have this, I wonder...?

That's debatable for certain card games that I will not mention.


With regards to "comeback mechanics," I think its the developers trying to incorporate strong options. However, the problem comes when the mechanic is too strong or one-dimensional. One good way to see this is to compare Heat Activation and XFactor.

XFactor (forgive me if I get any of this wrong, I don't play MvC3):
Has its own bar
Fairly large damage boost, varies based on XFactor "Level"
Speed boost, varies based on XFactor "Level"
Can be used to cancel just about anything
HP recovery, varies based on XFactor "Level"

Heat/Max mode:
Uses Magic circuit just like EXs do
HP recovery, stops when blocking or hit, speed depends on moon and version of heat mode
Can be used to cancel certain moves (full moon only)
Slight damage and defense boost (crescent moon only)
Can be used to get out of combos (bursting)
Bursting happens automatically (Half Moon only)
Can be used as a pseudo-reversal (activation)

The first thing I'd like to point out is that Heat Activation is primarily defensive. It has three offensive applications, one for each moon: IH canceling, auto-burst, and damage/defense boost. But other than that it is defensive: getting out of combos, reversal, HP Recovery.

It also has a lot of utility on usage. Since it uses the same meter as the EX moves we are forced to choose between using the activation and using the EX moves (or a combination of both). Full can use IH canceling for just about anything.

Comparing that to XFactor, XFactor is extremely one-dimensional. It's primary usage is offense, as a damage booster to kill, as a cancel to continue a combo for a kill, or as a speed booster to get an attack in (to kill). The healing is just an extra bonus, people probably would complain about it just as much if there was no healing attached.

Also when comparing the two, it should be noted that the bonuses that they share are Stronger in XFactor. The damage boost is higher and the healing is faster.

Enough of that, let's get back to discussing UNIB.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 09:40:42 PM by LivingShadow »

Offline Sahgren

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #757 on: May 18, 2012, 01:54:44 AM »
There will be a loketest in early-mid June. Not that specific, but I'll take what I can get.

Also, there's a chibi Waldstein wallpaper.

Offline Forte Wily

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #758 on: May 18, 2012, 12:23:57 PM »

Btw, Ehrik's comment was a joke.
Ugh...  :prinny: :psyduck:
Part of the problem stems from the fact that some developers see a "need" to do something about the basic, inalienable fundamental of a fighting game: some one has to win and some one has to lose. But the comeback mechanic fails to do anything to really get around that. In the end, there is no way to make it so that "everybody is a winner" in the end.

Practically every other type of entertainment that can be taken to a competitive level, from actual sports to Chess to card games, don't have anything akin to this. So, why is it that fighting games "must" have this, I wonder...?
Because the fun of any fight is the tension between players, so long as it's back and forth between any two players in a game... you have the spot when all the fun really comes from. The problem is not every one is at high-level (where that tension is almost-natural) and, frankly, not every person that plays a fighting game is going to be that skilled or going to get that skilled. Hence the need to keep things from getting completely one sided.

As I said in earlier posts, this is something that is way too easy to get wrong since you are manipulating factors into any scenario of a match... and that is simply inviting developers to give the losing player something big to tilt a match with. Skill is completely artificial at that point, which is much of where the rage over comeback mechanics comes from. So long as it is not arbitrary to the match scenario, then you have something that will still value skill (and require it). I am all for more of that non-arbitrary comeback mechanics.... if a game comes with one.

But enough of this, back to UNIB.
There will be a loketest in early-mid June. Not that specific, but I'll take what I can get.

Well, now we have something... no location?
Quote
Also, there's a chibi Waldstein wallpaper.
And all is normal...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 04:46:18 AM by Forte Wily »
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Offline Sahgren

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #759 on: May 18, 2012, 01:59:39 PM »
As far as location goes, they do say that they it'll be at several places. From previous Q&A, it seems like there were a number of people who were upset that they couldn't try the game before because they weren't in the area.

Offline Sahgren

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #760 on: May 24, 2012, 10:59:22 PM »
Chibi Carmine wallpaper now available.

They claim they'll have more details about the next loketest in next week's update.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #761 on: May 27, 2012, 02:33:09 AM »
How can a chibi be so angry?
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Offline Forte Wily

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #762 on: May 27, 2012, 01:46:49 PM »
How can a chibi be so angry?
I don't know...  :mystery:
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Offline Sahgren

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #763 on: May 31, 2012, 10:41:16 PM »
Relevant UNiB info! brb, dying of shock.

The next loketest will be on Saturday, June 9-10th at 3 different locations.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #764 on: June 01, 2012, 04:33:57 AM »
Hope the have the full roster playable at this point.
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Offline caiooa

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #765 on: June 06, 2012, 07:31:36 AM »
it looks like just Merkava (unreal black thing) and Vatista (red len) are added at this point.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/128/G012841/20120606084/
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #766 on: June 06, 2012, 10:58:37 AM »
I think I preferred the old layout.

Offline Sahgren

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #767 on: June 06, 2012, 11:38:35 AM »
I don't mind the super bar changing to be perfectly straight, but I think I preferred having the health bar curved. It gave a feeling of really being at critical health when you were on the bottom part of the bar.

Offline Red Leather Jacket

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #768 on: June 06, 2012, 11:47:19 AM »
UI looks kinda boring now, not that UI design really effects my interest in this game.

Still hype to see some Seth gameplay sometime in the far flung future.
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Offline Cristu

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #769 on: June 06, 2012, 02:15:35 PM »
I like the new one better. Curved = SFxT = sucks :|
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #770 on: June 06, 2012, 03:52:07 PM »
How can a chibi be so angry?

Quite easily.
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Offline Forte Wily

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #771 on: June 07, 2012, 10:10:56 AM »
Looks like the UI is more "traditional" now too. I guess those curves were just too much.
When did this happen?
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Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #772 on: June 08, 2012, 06:20:55 AM »
I assume the latest update is just listing the times and venus of the loketests for tomorrow?
Immortalize! 1st Clause! DIVIDE!

Waldstein is pronounced wa-REN-shu-tain. French Bread trollin'.

Offline Sahgren

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #773 on: June 08, 2012, 10:25:14 AM »
I assume the latest update is just listing the times and venus of the loketests for tomorrow?

Yep, and further confirmation that Merkava and Vatista are in the loketest. Still no news of Yuzuriha, Seth, or Hilda.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: So apparently that game French Bread were making...
« Reply #774 on: June 09, 2012, 02:42:14 PM »
[14:55]   <Satsu>   i went to check out p4u and undernight inbirth yesterday
[14:56]   <Satsu>   undernight inbirth is probably one of the best fighting games ive played so far
[14:56]   <Satsu>   it was awesome
[14:56]   <Satsu>   i had to line up for an hour to play a single match lol
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