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Offline f-wlen ice loop

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f-tatarineco thread
« on: January 04, 2012, 09:08:19 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdAy_5Go4ng

transcription:

2aa 5b 2b 2cc j.bc (s)dj.abc at: basic bnb. you MUST use this in corner due to pushback, the 4b combo won't reach. this is also if you're not able to react in time to delay the 4b for both hits of 5c for optimal damage.

2aa 5b 2b (very small delay) 4b 5c(2) j.bc dj.bc at: max damage basic bnb. use this all times if possible, it deals a good amount more.

j.bc 2a 5b 2b (very small delay) 4b 5c(2) j.bc dj.bc at: max damage off double overhead.

j.bc 2b (very small delay) 4b 5c(2) j.bc dj.bc at: you use this combo because it's a low threat off her fuzzy guard setup. 2a won't reach at a specific airdash height, and this is the height you do her doublejump fuzzy.

j.bc dj.b (fuzzy) j.236c 66 2b (veyr small delay) 4b 5c(2) j.bc dj.bc at: midscreen fuzzy. not enough time to do a rejump.

j.bc dj.b (fuzzy) j.236c iad j.bc 2a 5b 2b 2cc j.bc (s)dj.abc at: corner fuzzy with rejump, standing only. vs crouchers, dash and do 2aa 5b 2b whatever, or iad j.b 2aa 5b 2b whatever.

(air ch) 2b 4[ b] 5c(2) j.bc dj.bc at: basic air ch max damage. this combo is much easier than the following one; the next combo starts with j.b which has more prorate, otherwise it would deal a fair amount more.

(air ch) 2b 2ab 2ab (slight delay) 4b 5c(2) j.bc sdj.bc at: max damage air ch combo.

(note: at max ranges, you will need to use 2b 2cc to confirm)

(gold airthrow) 2b 2cc j.bc dj.abc at: the range makes doing 4b next to impossible most of the time.

j.236b (air ch) airdash j.c (land) j.bc dj.bc at: j.236b ch combo. this specifically works for that move.

623c 5ac(1) j.bc dj.bc at: won't land this often, but this is the combo.

j.bc 2a 5c(2) 623b 5ac(1) j.bc dj.bc at: you'll almost never land this. but here's the combo!

623[a] (overhead) 214c 5bc(1) j.bc dj.bc at: this overhead is slow, but it's +f on block and you can do 214c regardless to go into a mixup.

5[ b] (pause) 2b 4[ b] 5c(2) j.bc dj.bc at: max damage off 5[ b]. 5[ b] is usually used to stop jumpouts at max range, so this is the confirm. you can also go into 2ab loop for oki.

(throw) 2ab 2ab (pause) 4b 5c(2) j.bc at: max damage corner throw combo.

(throw) 2ab 2ab (pause) 2c 214a/b. oki. you almost always use this because the setup is extremely good (check out that walkspeed)

2aa 5b 2b 2c tk j.236c 2b 2cc j.bc dj.bc at: side swap using meter. get out of the corner, trim your bar from 270-280% to 170-180%. you can also do 2b 2c 214a/b for oki, obviously.

j[c] j.236a iad j.bc dj.b (fuzzy) j.236c iad j.bc 2a 5b 2b 2cc j.bc dj.abc at: you'll never land this. but you might land variants of the j.[c] opener.
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline DJcream

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 12:34:20 PM »
Is it just me or did F.Wlen get a damage boost? Also in which matchups should I consider picking Full Moon, instead of Crescent?
MBAACC1.07: C-Wlen (main), H-Hisui, C/H-Sacchin
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Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 12:36:01 PM »
Is it just me or did F.Wlen get a damage boost? Also in which matchups should I consider picking Full Moon, instead of Crescent?

she did not. pfhor, irysa, and i went through the framedisplay #s; there were 0 changes to her normals damage and prorate wise, and a minor j.c hitbox nerf which was applied across the board to stop unintended crossups in close quarter situations.

edit: to add - her 4b combo feels easier to me, and that combo definitely deals more than 2cc.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 12:38:39 PM by NO NETPLAY »
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline Numakie

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 01:20:05 PM »
Have to ask...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DANaM5vPuQ

All chara's or character specific?
~~Playing the wrong way... and somehow getting away with it.~~
<Pfhor>: no, I only have nightmares about your play numakie
<Pfhor>: because it makes no fucking sense
<Pfhor>: like WHY IS THIS HISUI DOING THESE THINGS

Offline Tonberry

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 01:26:35 PM »
Character specific.  Kouma gets up slow.
[01:08] <Komidol> that marisa cosplayer that took my registration was sexy
[15:24] <Rokunaya> i've actually reached the point where some voice actors sound familiar in animes
[22:40] <bellreisa> i'm an insane murderer who is overwhelmed by nihilism but that's ok cause i'm in love

Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 07:25:28 PM »
tonight's experiment: labbing up fwlen's corner airthrow -> 214c (ex snowflake) setup. this is extremely good on some charas and not so much on others. here's a breakdown.

really good (i.e. opp can't hit her)

c/h-aoko
c/h/f-ryougi
c/h/f-vakiha
c/h/f-akiha
c-roa
c/h/f-maids

good (favorable trade)

f-aoko (623c 1 hit)
c/h/f-arcueid (22c 1 hit)
c/h-sion (623c 1-2 hits, 421b escapes if not feinted but is punishable)
c/h-tohno (214c bad trade)
c/h/f-miyako (623c bad trade)
c/h/f-kouma (22c armors but wlen can move out of the way)
c/h-meco (236c poor trade)

bad (unfavorable trade)

c-nero (claw wallslams and resets position to fullscreen)
f-nero (bees pushes back)
h-koha (623c fullscreens)
c/h/f-sakiha (623c, resets neutral)
f-roa (214c last hit connects, is inv until then)
c/h/f-satsuki (214c fullscreens)

really bad (fwlen loses free)

c/h/f-hime (623c)
c/h-ciel (7th)
h-roa (7th)
f-ries (ex pile)
c/f-koha (214c escapes free for c, 214c counters flake free)
c/h/f-wara (teleport escapes free, warc summon even trade)
f-tohno (623c)
c/h/f-nanaya (623b/c)
c/h/f-pciel (623c escapes free)
c/h/f-vsion (you need DASH 623c, 623c standalone loses)
c/h/f-warc (623c, f can also do 64321c)
c/h/f-necoarc (64321c)
c/h/f-necoarc chaos (64321c)
f-meco (22c)
f-sion (22c wins, 236c favor trade)
c/h/f-kohamech (236c, 214214c)

arc drive only (can use ad to escape but loses otherwise; doesn't include bad/really bad lists)

arcueid
sion (escapes but it doesn't hit; aad will hit)
aoko
miyako
v-akiha
akiha
mech
hisui
kouma (1 hit ad only)
maids
c/h-meco

didn't test any aad's besides sion's. dash reversals merit more experimentation; not sure if anyone but vsion can do it.

end result: amusingly, the results line up extremely closely to my personal matchup chart for fwlen. generally, in her good matchups it's just another tool to lock the opp down, and in a large number of them it is strictly reversal fodder for those who can't/don't know how to bait or os it.

addendum: you can buffer these supers during superflash so it's pretty free

addaddendum: guaranteed snowflake setup: ... -> 236a 236c 214c (max mode only please)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 12:22:31 PM by f-wlen 2b »
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 08:07:57 PM »
more lab work tonight: dissecting how fwlen's ice vines work.


fwlen has two vines: 214a (up) and 214b (floor). these vines have a decent amount of startup, as well as some "dead time" before they are active. once active, they disappear under a few conditions:

1) vine connects with opponent, hit or block
2) opponent connects with wlen, hit or block
3) opponent touches vine with a red hitbox

here are some common issues people run into with vine:

1) during the "dead time" before the vine goes active, the vine does NOT disappear even if wlen is hit. this means if you start comboing her too early it will trade in her favor when it goes active.

2) opponent lands on vine and gets hit. this happens if you airdash without cancelling into a move that reduces your landing recovery. airdashes all have landing recovery, so if you're about to airdash into a vine, whiff a j.a and you'll be fine. (you might get hit for doing this though)

3) vine CAN be blocked in every other situation, such as empty jump, whiff j.c, whatever. if you get in on fwlen and make her block a j.c that works completely in your favor as it will not only connect with her and deactivate it, but will leave you safe even if you miss.

things to look out for:

1) fwlen punishing you for trying to move around vines. (this is her main gameplan)

2) sticking out a move with green first then red, or more green than red. vines are perpetually active until disarmed, so you may stick your limb into a huge red hitbox.
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline Tonberry

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 01:28:23 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYVuaxKUlSU

Works on
Sion - All moons
VSion - All moons
Hime - All moons(fails vs 5a)
Akiha - Fails vs F
FVakiha - Fails vs F
Hisui - Fails vs F
Kohaku - All moons
Mech - All moons
Tohno - All moons
Nanaya - All moons
Nero - All moons
Wara - Fails vs F
Miyako - All moons(Fails vs 5a)
White Len - C only
Seifuku - Fails vs F
Aoko - F only
Kouma - All moons
Pcl - All moons
Stridberg - All moons

Fails against
Arc - All moons
Warc - All moons
Len - All moons
Ciel - All moons
Satsuki - All moons

Didn't test the rest.  Quit attempting throw combo after 10 attempts vs Roa and Ryougi. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 01:31:22 PM by Tonberry »
[01:08] <Komidol> that marisa cosplayer that took my registration was sexy
[15:24] <Rokunaya> i've actually reached the point where some voice actors sound familiar in animes
[22:40] <bellreisa> i'm an insane murderer who is overwhelmed by nihilism but that's ok cause i'm in love

Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 07:28:39 PM »
quick note:

c/h/f back walk speed in ps2: -300
c/f back walk speed in 1.07: -550
(h: -650)

will post about ps2/1.07 vine differences in a bit, haven't fully labbed it yet
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 08:23:07 PM »
took some screencaps. saw no visible real estate difference between ps2 and 1.07 214b taking up space. pretty sure it's just the walkspeed buff that's making her more viable.

more later
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline Remzi

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 09:02:20 PM »
2AA 5B 2BCC j.BC dj.BC 6Q ( j.236A j.ABC dj.BC 6Q ) xN j.236C (land) 5Q j.BC dj.BC 6Q j.236C 5{B} 41236C

Do regular loop until you hit MAX and follow up with the max stuff. It's pointless to do but it's still awesome.

Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 11:29:53 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M173MV8eHBw

been a good run guys, i retire
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 08:16:46 PM »
ok so mbread doesn't allow animated gifs in avs so here



i'm done now
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline f-wlen ice loop

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2013, 08:31:02 AM »
did some more testing and cleared up some icemat inconsistencies because i was seeing it hit people despite whiffing air normals

c and h moon characters actually can NOT airdash -> whiff air normal and land safely on icemat. f moon CAN.

this means f moon airdash -> whiff normal has no recovery and c/h does, since icemat is active the entire time it's onscreen

this also applies to airtech situations where you are out of options. let's say there's a mat and you randomly get tagged and airtech with the mat close to you underneath. if you do nothing, you are safe to land; however this means you are likely to get hit by fwlen 5b or 5c aa. if you attack, you commit to a move that she can probably space around and counter. air shielding is incredibly risky. air dodge also counts as a move and will get hit

here are some solutions:

1) use an attack that hits the icemat's greenbox to defuse it. good examples: c.hisui j.yayaya, ciel j.knife, c.miyako stomp (the shockwave, not the actual stomp part) bad examples: h/f ries 5b (greenbox comes out first, ries gets CH'd), c.nanaya 2a (same)

2) use an attack that touches fwlen before landing on the icemat. if fwlen blocks, the icemat is defused. to be safe, you can jump cancel on block to avoid the initial period when the mat is forming and cannot be defused (see above posts)

fwlen counters this via spacing. by properly moving around she will never let herself get touched and thus ensuring that you have to challenge the mat on your own somehow, staying just out of range to confirm mat hits but not getting in the way of the attacks. this is more difficult for some matchups such as nero and wara, and very good for her in others (miyako, akiha)

tldr version:

c and h need to find chara-specific ways to defuse the mat

f has a slight advantage that can be used in neutral, along with the chara-specific options
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 08:34:57 AM by f-wlen ice loop »
<fubarduck> hey bell good shit beating kusoru in melty
<fubarduck> he was like "i lost to a long haired asian"
<fubarduck> aaaaaaaaa

Offline hipikachu

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 10:35:52 PM »
Wait, if her Kouma-specific loop was taken out in the PC ver, then what platform was this combo video taken in?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-3dCLr6Q7A
The last combo shows the loop, but the interface is clearly Current Code. Unless that was 1.05 or something.

Offline Sashi

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Re: f-tatarineco thread
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2013, 11:18:01 PM »
Probably MBAACC PC 1.07 Rev 1.2.0.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 11:25:14 PM by Sashi »
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