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Author Topic: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread  (Read 8134 times)

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Offline LordPangTong

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Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« on: August 22, 2009, 10:27:16 PM »
Here's a thread completely devoted to the discussion of C-W Len! Full moon doesn't deserve all the love  :-\

Normals/Command Normals

5A- A quick poke. Very small hitbox, combos into everything.

2A- W Len bends slightly and pokes. Hits low.

5B- W Len swings her orb 180 degrees in front of her. Has very good range and knocks enemy back a bit. Air unblockable. Very good zoning tool, and it dash cancellable on hit/block. Also good for CH whoring.

BE5B- Charged 5B. Same hitbox, but causes wallslam.

2B- W Len does a 2 hit yo-yo like trick with her orb. Has great range, and is used as her primary knockdown move. Gives untechable knockdown. Dash cancellable.

4B- W Len swings her orb upward. This is W Len's launcher.

5C- W Len swings her orb above her head in an arc. 2 hits, dash cancellable, air unblockable.

BE5C- Same thing as 5C, only larger hitbox. Still air unblockable, but also becomes a launcher. It also comes out faster than in MBAC.

2C- W Len reaches her foot out in front of her to trip her opponent. Untechable knockdown. Hits low.

2CC- W Len does an overhead flip-kick after the first trip. Overhead, and knocks down. Can serve as a launcher if first hit connects. (?)

BE2C- W Len goes for the same kick as 2C, but she slides forward as she does so. Very useful tool in combos.

3C- Only the second hit of 2CC. A fairly decent overhead that is hard to predict. Gives untechable knockdown and can be used for OTG setup.

J.A- W Len pokes. A bit slow, but has good range.

J.B- W Len swings the orb around from her backside. Has terrible range, and seems have the ability to be delayed if you hold B down. Can crossup.

J.C- W Len swings the orb in front of herself.

J.[C]- W Len swings the orb, but throws it as a projectile. It arcs upward slightly, and then drops towards the ground. Disappears if W Len is hit before it touches the ground. Causes W Len to float for a second while being launched.

J.2C- W Len swings the orb down.

J.2[C]- W Len swings her orb down, but throws it as a projectile. It travels downward, and then forward.

Specials

236A- W Len summons an ice spike which points horizontally straight in front of her, and towards the ground.

236[A]- Same thing as 236A, but instead of damaging right away, it damages as it disappears, causing 8 hits.

236B- W Len summons an ice spike which diagonally points upwards and forwards. Air unblockable.

J.236A- W Len summons an ice spike which points downwards at a steep angle.

J.236B- W Len summons an ice spike which points upwards and slightly forwards.

623A- W Len spins into a sliding kick. Hits low. Used in all combos.

623[A]- Same as 623A, only slightly slower. Is special cancellable on block.

623B- W Len spins into an overhead orb smash. Overhead hit, has lower invincibility while spinning.

623{B}- W Len spins as if she was about to do the overhead, and then stops. Retains lower invincibility.

22A- W Len turns into her cat form and teleports a bit ahead of her old position, and then reappears.

22B- W Len fakes an ikimasuwa. (214A) Invincible while animation starts.

22C- W Len fakes a 623B. Teleports W Len forward a bit.

22D- W Len turns into cat form. She remains this way until other inputs are given.

214A- Ikimasuwa. Invincible at startup. Amazing DP.

214B- W Len jumps forward like 214A, but she goes much further. Special cancellable.

j.214A- Fast fall. W Len descends towards the ground at a 45 degree angle.

j.214B- W Len performs a 3 hit kick, which trails with ice. Only used to end combos.

421A- W Len throws a ball of ice from overhead, and it creates a small ice patch on the ground about half the stage away from W Len. Air unblockable. (Can be thrown closer/farther as well by holding back/4 or forward/6.)

421B- Similar to 421A, only the startup is longer, and it creates 2 ice patches. If the first patch hits her enemy, it will combo into the second one. Air unblockable.

63214A- W Len's command grab.

63214B- W Len does a dash and then grabs her enemy.

Ex Edge Moves

236C- Ex Ice. W Len creates a large ice flower above herself. Untechable launcher. Combo linker in her meter combos. Air unblockable. Has a long startup, but safe on block.

J.236C- W Len summons multiple ice spikes in front of herself. Safe on block.

623C- W Len does a flashy looking 623B move, where the spins do damage, and the final smack wallslams. Awful Ex move and shouldn't be used.

214C- W Len launches her enemy into the air, and then does a spinning move that wallslams. Terribad damage, but can function in some OTG combos.

J.214C- W Len performs her j.236B kick, but it is attack/throw cancellable afterwards. Should only be used when you absolutely need extra damage, or off of 214A.

421C- W Len's new ice storm attack. She is invincible during the entire animation. Air unblockable, and cannot be shielded.

63214C- Ex grab. Chains into air combo.

Arc Drive- W Len throws a large orb across the screen. Moves very slowly, and hits several times on contact. Can be shield bunkered fairly easily.

Another Arc Drive- W Len throws the same orb, but it moves quickly and stuns opponent on contact long enough to go into a cinematic attack. Fairly weak, but useful as a fullscreen punish.

Last Arc- Pretty powerful?



Combos
This section is a work in progress. If you'd like to contribute any combos or other information to this section, post as a reply, and I'll make sure it gets here!

Standard Combo:

(5B) 2B 623A 5C 4B J.BC J.BC Throw/214B 214C

Standard Ex Ice Combo:

(5B) 2B 623A 5C 4B 236C delay 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A Ender

Advanced Combo:

(5A) 5C 2C 623A delay 2B 623A 5B 4B 236C delay 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A  Ender

Ikimasuwa Combo Options:

214A 214C J.BC J.BC Throw/214B
or
214A 236C (Safe DP)

Overhead Combos:

623B 2C 623A 4B J.BC J.BC Throw/214B
623B 2C 623A 2B 623A 5B 4B 236C 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A  Ender

Ex Throw Combos:
63214C J.BC j.BC Throw/214B
63214C tk j.214A land 623A 2CC J.BC J.BC Throw/214B
63214C tk j.214A land 623A 5C 4B 236C delay 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A Ender
63214C IAD J.2C land 236C 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A 236[A]

Corner Throw Combo:
6E 5AA 5C 236C Ender

Enders:
As you play W Len, I'm sure you'll notice that you find yourself doing the Ex Ice setups a lot, and this is where W Len truly shines, for this is where all of her mixups are aloud to be let loose. Here a number of maneuvers you can perform after you catch your opponent off of an Ex ice with 2[C] 623A.

236C 2[C] 623A 5C J.BC J.BC Throw/214B
This if just if you don't feel like being creative and want to go for a little more damage. Should be used to put your enemy in the corner, or to finish them off.

236C 2[C] 623A 5C 4B 236C Ender
ZOMG. Another Ex Ice... The damage is horrible, so don't take this too seriously. This should only be used if if you're in Max mode, and feel like using up some extra circuit. Most of the time, this will put your enemy in the corner, so you can go for a corner setup off of this.

(In corner) 236C 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A 236[A]
Charged ice setup. Very good move on Oki, and leaves you free to pressure to your heart's content after it forces 'em to block. Just be sure to watch out for shield bunkers.

(Midscreen only) 236C 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A 22C
Very deceiving crossup. W Len's 22C is nothing but an illusion move to the untrained eye, but it actually doubles as a very small teleport. The teleport will be far enough to cross up after your enemy has been knocked down by 623A, so enjoy surprising them.

(Midscreen only) 236C 2[C] 623A 2B (delay) 623A 22C 66
DOUBLE CROSSUP. Woah there. So your past 22C crossup wasn't enough to fool your opponent? Well, W Len's dash crosses up at it's very start before she actually starts running. With this, you can effectively cross over to your opponent's other side, then cross back to your own right before you can attack. If you input 6[6], it fakes the crossup, and you remain on the same side as you would after a 22C.

236C 2[C] 623A J.[C] land 623A
If you time this right, your 623A and the hit of the j.[C] will fall on the defender simultaneously. It is instinctive to block the j.[C] high, so the 623A has a good chance of connecting if your enemy isn't paying close attention. If it does connect, you get a free combo.

(Midscreen only) 236C 2[C] 623A 421A/B
This will place a patch of ice a little ways behind your defending target. After they get up from your previous knockdown, begin pressuring them into the ice for some cool blockstrings and opportunities for mixups.

236C 2[C] 623A Heat
Safe Heat. Hey, why not?  

(Corner only) 236C 2C neutral jump J.[C] land 2B
Like the J.[C]/623A mixup above, this tricky looking high/low illusion is completely safe, and will either: 1) Force your enemy to block, in which case you go into blockstrings or dash cancel 2B to apply pressure, or 2) your enemy falls for the low 2B and they eat more EX ICE!  :bleh:

Blockstrings
White Len's blockstrings mainly consist of setting up an opportunity to use either her command throw. All of White Len's normals are dash cancellable, giving your enemies that respect your attacks a rude awakening when you cancel a simple 5B into a dash-in throw. It should be noted that if you're doing these strings in the corner, you can replace the command throw input with 6E. (This leads to Ex Ice, which is more favorable damage/okizime/mixups)

... 2B 623[A] 214B J.214A 63214A/C
... 5C 2C 2B 623{B} 63214A/C
...63214B
...5C/2C/5B/2B 66 63214A/C

Blockstrings off of 236[A]:
Note: Be wary of shield bunkers off of 236[A]. Make sure to mix up the blockstrings off of 236[A] to prevent being punished by it.

236[A] jump 7 J.[C] 66 J.2C J.C (double overhead)
236[A] 623{B} 2A ... (faked overhead for high/low mixup)
236[A] 623B 623[A] ...  (use 623A if 623B connects, otherwise go into blocksting off of 623[A])
236[A] 22C 2A/3C (faked overhead for alternate high/low guessing game)

XAQ's ridiculous mixup: (corner only) ... 63214A/B delay 421A [4] 63214A (repeat)
If done correctly, this shit is like impossible to guard against. Basically, you command grab, chuck a piece of ice right over their knocked down body, then throw again immediately. (Ice will activate during grab animation causing about 900 damage more damage.) It has been speculated that the only way to escape this setup is to do a wakeup EX. (As the ice will prevent jump outs. Shielding and dodging will not work.)
Note: You can do W Len's normal throw instead of command throw and still combo off of it in this situation. (This may be preferable after a few reps of using the command throw.)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 03:12:31 PM by LordPangTong »
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline Masu

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2009, 09:37:41 PM »
frickin sweet. Thanks for the thread  :)
*starts to practice*

Offline oufan

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 04:54:53 PM »
Ah ^^, just came across that wlen thread.
Good tutorial :)

As a wlen player too, allow me to add 2 or 3 things ^-^

3C : She has that move on the ps2 mbaa :o ? I wonder if she have it too in arcade ?..
       Animation starts exactly like 2C, and then without the sweep coming out, its the second hit of her 2CC move that comes out
       It's overhead and it looks really really hard to react... The bad point is that it's not possible to combo decently after it since it knockdown opponent right away
       It does about 800 damage and can lead to OTG comboes...

BE5C : Again, this may be due to versions difference... It's air unblockable on ps2 version at least

jB : It's good to note that when held down, jB has UNLIMITED active frame until wlen lands... It also has really decent priority against front opponent even if it lacks range :)

623{A} : Same as MBAC. This move looks a lot like 623A, but has longer startup.
             Unlike 623A, this move will allow opponent to jump out of pressure unless used after 2C or BE2C
             The main difference with 623A is that its special cancelable on block ( so you can frametrap after it with 236A > 421C , for exemple, or 214B > j214A > run away / DP,
             or 214B > late j214A > 63214C... )
             Since it has longer startup, it may also be more confusing with 623B... But definitly not that much lol

j236B : Air blockable ^-^

22D : Actually, the player just imput 22D and she turns into a non-moving cat till he presses any other button ( Has startup to get out of her cat form ! ). This actually makes her hitbox
        really small, but its still useless 99.9% of the time

214B : Just like MBAC, that move is not cancelable into j214C ( it does j214B instead )... Damn, i've always wondered why...?

623C : Heh... As you said, this move is pretty useless... Now if we really want to find this move an use, i guess it could be used after a grounded held shield, near the corner...
          It could lead to pretty nice damage... But it wouldn't be as reliable as a 63214... So it's to the player to decide ^-^

214C : Very low damaging in usual comboes... Yet its the most damaging move she has for OTG comboes ( next to her "another arc drive" of course )
          I think it could be useful, in situations where wlen need OTG damage, like after a successful 3C...
          She'd lose knockdown through... Still ... ^^

Also :
63214C tk j.214A land 623A 5C 4B J.BC J.BC Throw/214B <-- This combo shouldn't work because it involves jump canceling twice

(Midscreen only) 236C 2[C] 623A 22C 66
DOUBLE CROSSUP
--> Here is another variation : (Midscreen only) 236C 2[C] 623A 22C 6[6]
     This will actually look like the double crossup, but if you hold 6... It won't crossup at all ^^


Please correct me if i said anything wrong :)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 05:02:38 PM by oufan »

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 11:07:43 AM »
Thanks for the post, oufan. Info post has been updated with necessary changes. I actually wasn't aware W Len had that 3C, though I had done it a few times by accident. Very useful information!  :D

As far as 214C goes, I'm not sure it's viable to use meter in an OTG combo. (Most of the time, OTGs are used to build meter or set up a 236[A]. Not so much damage) I have yet to really work with OTG strings though, so if you have any OTG combos you're running that seem to work well, please do share. I will be running my own tests soon on them, though. Along with those, I'll see if I can't crack open a use for 623C like you said, but I think it may be an act in futility because of it's high hit count. (And even less damage would be dealt off of a shield)

~OTG Combo and Blockstring sections coming soon~  :toot:
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline oufan

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 10:02:03 AM »
Hmm didnt work otg's combo that much, it became especially hard at MBAA

here is my actual main otg ( corner only ) :
2C > 2AA > 5B ( 2hit ) > 5C ( 2 hit ) > 2B ( 1 hit ) > 5A whiff
It does aproximatly ~800 damage

It's still possible to use 236A > 236C after the 2B to do a "double otg +  hunting option select" just like in mbac.
Now it consums meter... maybe that defeat the point of otg to start with... I guess it's only meant for when player is in max mode anyway...

It's also possible to use 214C after it to add another ~800 damage, but that also means losing advantage
( Well... it can be used right as the starter attack of the otg too, for nearly the same damage than the full otg combo lol... minus ~100 or something )

I have no real "double otg" yet ( those meant to build meter like maaaaad :( )

Hmm and also "since blood heat wlen is total bullshit" and can do 5k from any stupid mixup ( even ex throw damnit.. )
supreme otg : 2B > Another arc drive ( thats so pro ! )
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 10:05:47 AM by oufan »

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2009, 11:29:54 AM »
Updated info post. Added Blockstrings section, extensions onto Combos, a new Ender, and corner throw combo.
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline XAQshinor

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 06:59:12 PM »
(Input from XAQ would be helpful)

yea with the 421a[4] pressure if u time/space it properly it can almost guarantee
that they will not leave the situation without taking some kind of damage. a perfectly
timed setup makes it so that they are still in command throw range while you are just
outside of throw range, if they try to jump the command throw the 421a activates
early enough to catch them in the air (its air unblockable) they dont have time to
dash in throw, dodge doesnt work, if they shield, it wont catch anything because 421
wouldnt have activated yet, backdash doesnt work. they pretty much have to use an
invincible EX to escape but even that can be dealt with by just waiting instead of
cmd throwing.

good stuff on the guide LPT though some properties and stuff needs to be edited / updated.
236a not being low, 421a/b moves being air unblockable, 421c being air unblockable + unshieldable etc.
im sure youll catch a lot of em if u read over the first post. keep up the good work.

Quote from: oufan
t's still possible to use 236A > 236C after the 2B to do a "double otg +  hunting option select" just like in mbac.
Now it consums meter... maybe that defeat the point of otg to start with... I guess it's only meant for when player is in max mode anyway...
actually if u time the 236c buffer at a certain point, catching the techs while not catching non techs
becomes free. since the time for cancelling 236a on hit is different from its whiff timing, if you just do
the whiff time cancel u will never waste meter for them non-teching.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 07:03:31 PM by XAQshinor »

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 07:37:28 PM »
Thanks for the info! Updated info post  :toot:
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline mizuki

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Re: Cresent White Len Info/Strategy/Tactics Thread
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2009, 05:54:30 AM »
Yay, not having to do any work. Don't forget that her normals are able to be dash canceled, as it helps her a lot with her mixups too.
what the fuck is this game