Damage Scaling + Proration question

[liger]

Hey everyone~ Long time no see, sorta.

I want to check if this is the proper interpretation of the Melty Blood damage scaling and proration for Act Cadenza.

P.S. the following text is taken from my readme, so that's why it sounds explainitory.


The first move does full damage, and its proration value is set as the current proration value. The moves following will have their damages multiplied by the current proration value. If the proration value of the move used is lower than the current proration value, then the proration value of that move will be set as the new proration value. If the proration value of the move used is higher than the current proration value, the current proration value does not change. Reverse beat comes into play with the damage scaling in that if you reverse beat, the damage proration value of that move will be lowered to the reverse beat proration value. If you reverse beat once, the proration value is 78%. Twice, and the proration value is 55%. A third time, and it'll be 45%. That's as low as it goes.

A second damage scaling occurs along with with damage proration. Every move done in a chain will do 3.125% less damage for each successive hit in the chain. So the first hit will do full damage, the second hit will do 96.875% damage, the third will do 93.750% damage, and so on.

The general formula:

First hit - proration = x%
damage = 100%

next hit(s) - proration = y%
if reverse beat
   if reverse beat% < y%
      y% = reversebeat%

reversebeat%
1 time - 78%
2 times - 55%
3+ times - 45%

if first hit: damage = base

else: damage = base*(1-hitcount*.03125)*proration


Is this correct?

[linalys]

Also check for who is getting hit, at what remaining life total, and in what position (airborne, crouching,standing). 

[Zaelar]

You also have to watch for reverse beat proration from before the combo, as well as it recovering.

Also, when you say chain, do you mean combo?

[Choco]

Also, when you say chain, do you mean combo?

Probably. I believe he's doing this for MUGEN, afterall.

[liger]

Thanks for your responses. =)

Also check for who is getting hit, at what remaining life total, and in what position (airborne, crouching,standing). 

o_o;;; I don't think I'll be taking so many things into consideration because like Choco said, this is for MUGEN, and so there are too many opponents to check for that are not Melty Blood characters. That stuff just gets rather messed up. @_@ But position type makes a difference for damage? Like getting hit while crouching does less than hit while standing?

You also have to watch for reverse beat proration from before the combo, as well as it recovering.

I don't quite understand... Reverse beat proration from before the combo? But can't you only reverse beat after a combo has started? I think I'm interpreting what you said incorrectly. I'm sorry, I'm still not that knowledgeable yet. And how does recovery play into damage dampening?

And yeah, when I say chain, I mean combo. Sorry if that was unclear.


But overall is the general formula of what I outlined correct?

Didn't say it before, but thanks in advance for any help. =)

[Arlieth Tralare]

Reverse Beat lasts for a short time period, even outside of a combo. For example, if Nanaya does a 2C->5A reverse beat, then does dash throw, the throw has the RB penalty.

[Zaelar]

You don't have to be in a combo to reverse beat.  In the example arlieth just said, the 2c5a doesn't have to combo to get the penalty, it gets penalized on move activation.  That means even if the 5a gets beat out during its startup, like with a nero deer for example, you still get the penalty.  This also happens if you try doing something like j.c land 2a, but press A too early and get j.a, you'll get a reverse beat but the j.a will have been canceled by landing before its active frames.

[liger]

Reverse Beat lasts for a short time period, even outside of a combo. For example, if Nanaya does a 2C->5A reverse beat, then does dash throw, the throw has the RB penalty.

I see. Alrighty, thanks for the info. That clears it up. So, the duration that RB lasts for, how long, about? Like 5 seconds? 10? I'll have to figure out a decent amount of time to reset the variable I use to keep track of reverse beat, rather than immediately when a move reaches completion.

Oh man, that's rather strict then... Cause if you keep trying to chain combo to combo with a reverse beat penalty, you'll be stuck at that low reverse beat percentage.

You don't have to be in a combo to reverse beat.  In the example arlieth just said, the 2c5a doesn't have to combo to get the penalty, it gets penalized on move activation.  That means even if the 5a gets beat out during its startup, like with a nero deer for example, you still get the penalty.  This also happens if you try doing something like j.c land 2a, but press A too early and get j.a, you'll get a reverse beat but the j.a will have been canceled by landing before its active frames.

Oh... That makes things more complicated, then... Even if it doesn't combo... RB is still active... Gonna need another variable for that... @_@

And still, how long is that window of time when RB is active?

I don't totally understand the second example you gave. So j.C -> j.A causes a reverse beat, simple enough. But then if you hadn't accidentally hit A too early and used the 2A, the 2A would still receive RB penalty, right?

Just to check, going from an EX move like 236A to a basic move like 2A or 5C counts as reverse beat? And Arc drives, too?

Oh yeah, another question in relation.. How does damage dampenning occur in relation to Nanaya's j.B? Cause it hits twice. The data at shoryuken wiki says j.B does 500 damage... So I guess both hits do 250, and there's no dampening inbetween the hits? And in that case, do both hits share the same damage proration?

And on a similar note, for Aoko's [5C], the data says it does 1800 damage. But the attack is 4 separate hits, the kick, and then 3 hits from the energy that shoots out of Aoko's foot. So, how is the damage split between these 4 hits? For the j.[c] the data splits the two hits, but 5[C] doesn't.

Last question of the night, sorry for so many... @_@

I read this in Shiki Tohno's entry.

Ground throw: 1461/781 (really is 500+1000/500+300, but the game counts it as two hits so damage scaling kicks in one the second part). No special properties.

Does this apply to Nanaya, as well? And something doesn't totally make sense... If scaling applies to the second hit, then it'd be 1000 + 500*.96875, right? That calculates to 1484.375. It's a bit higher than the data, so I thought I'm probably not calculating it correctly...

Thanks again for the help. ^_^ See ya~

[Zaelar]

Reverse beats are ONLY when chaining from a stronger attack to a weaker attack.  A chain is canceling a normal into a normal, so it doesn't apply to anything involving specials, EXes, or arc drives.  It also doesn't apply to to moves that aren't in a chain, for example, if you land a 5b as counter hit anti-air, then let it recover, then do a 5a(combo would be 5b, 5a), that isn't a reverse beat.  Landing from j.c into a 2a isn't a reverse beat since the 2a isn't chained from the j.c.  The reason the j.a is a reverse beat is because it is chained, it just didn't connect.

I have no idea what the correct data is for all those moves, but keep in mind some of them might remove the first hit and replace it with a different one if you charge it, for example a 5c might do 1300 uncharged, but charged it does 3 hits of 600 each.  I imagine each hit gets prorated from the 3.1ish per hit in a combo.

[liger]

Reverse beats are ONLY when chaining from a stronger attack to a weaker attack.  A chain is canceling a normal into a normal, so it doesn't apply to anything involving specials, EXes, or arc drives.  It also doesn't apply to to moves that aren't in a chain, for example, if you land a 5b as counter hit anti-air, then let it recover, then do a 5a(combo would be 5b, 5a), that isn't a reverse beat.  Landing from j.c into a 2a isn't a reverse beat since the 2a isn't chained from the j.c.  The reason the j.a is a reverse beat is because it is chained, it just didn't connect.

Ahhhh. That's a relief. Thanks for clarifying. ^_^

I have no idea what the correct data is for all those moves, but keep in mind some of them might remove the first hit and replace it with a different one if you charge it, for example a 5c might do 1300 uncharged, but charged it does 3 hits of 600 each.  I imagine each hit gets prorated from the 3.1ish per hit in a combo.

I see... Alright, that's something worth considering. If it hits 3 times rather than 4, and the hit from the energy isn't separate from the hit from the kick, then that will probably make my job easier. xD

Thanks for all the help!

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Arlieth mentioned that Reverse Beat lasts for a little while outside a combo. About how long is that?

[Zaelar]

It gradually recovers over time.  I'm not sure on the specific details though.  Also I remember testing and it seeming to start recovering even during a combo, IE if you do a reverse beat at the start of a combo the proration will have ended by the end of the combo, but if you do a reverse beat at the end of a combo, you'll have proration if you land a combo immediately afterward.  This was a while ago, might have changed in B2, and I'm not sure that I'm 100% correct.

[COD3player]

Didn't think that this question of mine warranted a new topic, so I wanted to ask, what should we use for damage settings against the training dummy if we want to calculate approximate combo damage and possibly record clips? So far the following options in question are:

Counter Hit: Off/Normal/LowCounter/HighCounter
Damage Reduction: Off/Normal/All
Critical Hit: Off/Normal/All

I think turning critical hit off would be fine. Setting damage reduction to All significantly reduces the combo's damage but with the new damage reduction system, I presume that's what the estimated damage would be if the opponent timed their button presses correctly on each individual hit.

[S-Blade]

and with MBACPC out, we have discovered....

-Reverse beat also occurs when chaining As together (but you won't see "Reverse Beat!", but the penalty will start applying, this is most likely added for OTG strings)
-It recovers pretty fast.
-There's a 55% cap on it.

H-F, as for your question, Criticals should definitely be Off. Counter hits don't add to damage (but if you're demonstrating a combo off of CH, go with LowCounter just so we all know it's valid ;p). Damage Reduction, if you ask me, should be Off. Suddenly getting used to lower damage numbers for combos when communicating with other people doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

[liger]

Ahhh. Sorry, I'm slow to respond again. @_@

Been watching too much Bleach lately... >_>

It gradually recovers over time.  I'm not sure on the specific details though.  Also I remember testing and it seeming to start recovering even during a combo, IE if you do a reverse beat at the start of a combo the proration will have ended by the end of the combo, but if you do a reverse beat at the end of a combo, you'll have proration if you land a combo immediately afterward.  This was a while ago, might have changed in B2, and I'm not sure that I'm 100% correct.

Ahh... That... might be too difficult for me to program on my own... orz  I never was too good at controlling variables over a specifc duration of time. :'(

Thanks for the info, though. =)

I think I got all my questions answered for now, so thanks again! ^_^ And I finally got Act Cadenza (for PC, cause the PS2 version is just too cool for me...) so hopefully progress will go a little faster and smoother in terms of accuracy and attack behavior.