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Author Topic: What system mechanic is this?  (Read 5400 times)

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Offline BurstOfAnger

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What system mechanic is this?
« on: July 08, 2009, 04:10:16 AM »
Try this combo using Nanaya:

5b[b ] 822 (jump vertically then fastfall) (wait for opponent to fall back) 2c5c

For some reason you can't jump again after 5c. Why?

This also applies to Nero when you do something along the lines of:
2b2cjc (opponent wallslam) (you land) 2c (uncharged). You can't jump after the 2c

Also, why can Shiki do this:

5a5c2c5bb5a(whiff)jcdjbc

The combo starts with 5a but you can still do the 5a whiff.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 04:12:57 AM by BurstOfAnger »
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2009, 04:16:38 AM »
I believe it's that the attacks in question can't be canceled out of for some reason so you have to sit through the whole animation before you can jump.

Offline Yotsuyoru

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2009, 12:22:03 AM »
This is just a limiter for ground jump cancels, you can't do more than one, ground to air, jump cancel.  For example if you were to transcribe the string to text, and you separate the two types of jump cancels to ground and aerial, gJC must not appear more than once.

Another string for Nanaya that demonstrates this is (CH)5c gJC->IAD j.b 2b5c5bb 22c 9 j.bc aJC j.bc airthrow.
Note that, even if you used 2a 5a 22c to do a free action jump, this does not reset the ability to re-ground jump cancel.  Until "N Hits!" disappears, valid or invalid hits regardless, the limiter will still apply.

As for Shiki's 5bb(5a/2a) whiff, you'll notice its special that it is not counted as a reverse beat or is it penalized.  Its just the exception, and part of 5bb properties.

Offline Tempered

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2009, 01:45:10 AM »
In a simpler term consider your jump cancel a move and you can only use a move once in a combo generally.
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Offline Lolly

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2009, 06:43:38 AM »
You can only ground jump cancel once per combo.

It's unrelated to jump cancelling,  but Shiki Tohno's 5bb is a weird exception to the usual order of things where he can chain the move to 5a/2a regardless if it was used earlier in the chain or not, and it also won't reverse beat doing this. Try the same thing with Nanaya and you'll see it only works for Tohno

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2009, 06:57:26 AM »
I've wondered about this in the past too... I run into the same problem with W Len as I try to combo off of her Ex grab. (63214C) It seems only certain strings allow her to jump afterwards...

String that doesn't work: 63214C -> IAD j.2C -> 236C -> 2[C] -> 623A -> 5C -> *This is where jump fails*

HOWEVER

String that does work: 63214C -> IAD j.2C -> 236C -> 2[C]C -> JUMP -> j.BC -> j.BC Throw

So, this arrises some questions... does W Len's 2CC have some special launch/jump properties? And also, does the jump into IAD after the Ex grab count as a jump cancel?
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2009, 08:45:25 AM »
I think WLen's 2cc works like Arc's 2c5cc the second hit has a auto jump if you hold 8 while you hit with it (if you look closely you can see a blue trail as she follows).

I think that ciel's 2cc and v/Akiha's 5bb have similar properties but I'm not sure.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 08:47:17 AM by LivingShadow »

Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 10:58:25 PM »
Another case to investigate would be this combo using Akiha

xx2c5c *enemy wallslam* IAD jc land jbc djbc airthrow

Based on what's said in here, why can this happen? Doesn't that IAD count as a ground jump?
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Offline Yotsuyoru

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 01:39:08 AM »
Another case to investigate would be this combo using Akiha

xx2c5c *enemy wallslam* IAD jc land jbc djbc airthrow

Based on what's said in here, why can this happen? Doesn't that IAD count as a ground jump?
I only see one ground jump cancel (IAD) in that string, j.c is already canceled by landing, it is a free jump from there.

So, to recap:
-One ground to air jump cancel is allowed in a combo
-Some moves have special properties to allow for a special jump cancel
-You can ground jump as much as you'd like in a combo as long as the preceding animation completes itself
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 02:06:00 AM by Yotsuyoru »

Offline Zaelar

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2009, 03:47:11 AM »
Just a guess, but maybe 5b [ b] is considered an a attack?  This explains the no reverse beat and the chaining into 5a that's already used.

Also talking about AC or AA?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 07:55:59 PM by Zaelar »

Offline Yotsuyoru

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2009, 07:06:17 PM »
5bb/5b[b] could be considered an "a" attack, but its missing one property of "a" attacks, which is canceling into itself or another "a" attack regardless of hit or whiff.

Examples were from AC, so I'm guessing AC mechanics.

Offline Sprint

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2009, 05:40:16 AM »
Most chain cancels are assigned inputs like every other move but are locked out until you hit a frame of animation that specifically allows it to be performed.

Shiki 5BB however doesn't have an input assigned to it. Instead his 5B contains a script that jumps to a different animation if B is tapped. Skipping over the usual input code like this seems to, as said, give it "A" properties.

Canceling on whiff is nothing to do with A attacks. It's a separate property that can apply to anything.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 05:42:44 AM by Sprint »
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Offline Van_Artic

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2009, 08:41:14 AM »
Shiki 5BB however doesn't have an input assigned to it. Instead his 5B contains a script that jumps to a different animation if B is tapped. Skipping over the usual input code like this seems to, as said, give it "A" properties.
this puts on my mind a doubt:

after the Sion j.214 A/B she has a landing animation, but i saw people canceling it, and thus continuing combos; how do they do it?
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Offline Tempered

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 10:43:49 AM »
Shiki 5BB however doesn't have an input assigned to it. Instead his 5B contains a script that jumps to a different animation if B is tapped. Skipping over the usual input code like this seems to, as said, give it "A" properties.
this puts on my mind a doubt:

after the Sion j.214 A/B she has a landing animation, but i saw people canceling it, and thus continuing combos; how do they do it?

is this in AA or AC? In AC if it hits or is blocked or is whiffed I know of no way to combo after it due to the long recovery on it no matter what. In AA they reduced the landing recovery from it being block or it whiffing by alot (it safe on block from what ive seen in vids) but they still cant combo after it hits.
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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: What system mechanic is this?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 03:09:34 PM »
Yeah, unless they were just using it to whiff, there's no way to do anything after it hits.  You can't even heat cancel it in full moon.
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