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Author Topic: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo  (Read 34362 times)

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Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2012, 11:40:06 PM »
Good to see that this chara is seeing activity again.  :psyduck:

I seen you in the forum posting when I read some other topics. It's good to know that there are people happy to see akiha players :) I am going to do whatever I can to push her to the max. I have never used another character before. That's how dedicated I am to using her. I only know moves and hit boxes from watching videos. Like that girl that does the cartwheel, when she is in cartwheel mode, you can only hit her stomach, because the rest of her body is invincible during those frames. I did my homework a little lol. That's the only way I am learning how to fight against these characters, by watching and reading. The smart thing people would say, would be to play as them so you know how they move. But, I believe if you do enough research and video watching, you can accomplish anything without using certain characters to know their mechanism.

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2012, 11:42:28 PM »
I will agree that if a person doesn't know the character then you have an advantage. I guess I'd call that an "artificial" tier list in that it takes into account the knowledge of the players.

In terms of Akiha vs VAkiha, it's more of a preference thing. VAkiha had a higher damage and flamepit setups which drained meter but she had one of the worst defenses in the game. By contrast, Akiha has similar setups (but different combos to set them up) and a higher defense but she loses out on speed because VAkiha has two very fast air dashes. I personally would place them about even, but if the people in your area don't know how to play against Akiha then Akiha is the better choice.



Also, you might want to look into the MBAC framedisplay. It gives you the locations of all the hitboxes clearly.

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2012, 12:02:28 AM »
I will agree that if a person doesn't know the character then you have an advantage. I guess I'd call that an "artificial" tier list in that it takes into account the knowledge of the players.

In terms of Akiha vs VAkiha, it's more of a preference thing. VAkiha had a higher damage and flamepit setups which drained meter but she had one of the worst defenses in the game. By contrast, Akiha has similar setups (but different combos to set them up) and a higher defense but she loses out on speed because VAkiha has two very fast air dashes. I personally would place them about even, but if the people in your area don't know how to play against Akiha then Akiha is the better choice.


Also, you might want to look into the MBAC framedisplay. It gives you the locations of all the hitboxes clearly.

yea, I'll check that out. I only found them on youtube. But, there is a way to unlock the frame display on mbaacc. But, my computer can't handle that game because I am using an x1150 ati graphics card witch is only a 2.0 pixel shader. But, I'll be getting a top notch computer eventually. But, that isn't going to make me a constant mbaacc player, because they took out bara cancels, which were extremely useful. They changed the gameplay a little, and I kind of like the origional gameplay better. I guess one day I'll try that version, but, I still like the bara canceling. I think I pulled of some bara cancels already. I'm pretty sure if you 214 D it will create a bunker shield at that second, but instead of doing one of those bunker slides, I did tohnos 236 c special with that big blast.



Offline LivingShadow

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2012, 12:11:24 AM »
Yeah, that sounds like a bara cancel. It was technically considered a glitch, which is why it was taken out.

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2012, 12:19:09 AM »
Yeah, that sounds like a bara cancel. It was technically considered a glitch, which is why it was taken out.

Awww man, that sucks. Glitches is what makes fighting games so technical. Like when they made smash bros brawl ( what a joke ), they took out wave dashing and I don't think you can cancel anymore lol! The only thing they left in there was the fact that you can tech if you fell lmao! Glitches is not a game's flaw, but a game's gain when it comes to fighting. See, i can boost cancel combo all over the screen with every character in big bang beat, because it's infinite boosts, and the boost cancel restarts your combos all over again, kind of like mbac. But, it's cheap, because that isn't skill, it's one button lol. It's still fun though. The more frustrated I get at a game, the better I become, because I push myself. I don't believe in limitations. So yea, glitches helps. Can you imagine a fighting game with no techskill and whiff cancels, like the first mortal kombat ( lmao! ).

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2012, 01:49:41 AM »
Ok, this right here explains it all. Though I've seen this video through and through, and studied it carefully. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVacUuXRScc at 4:01 that is the combo I'm tryinig to do. It looks like he is 5a to 2c to 2b, but it's hard to tell if the 2c is coming out before the 2b. That doesn't not look at all like a 2a because if you look closely, her fingers arn't in a fist. I think only 2 of those moves are actually connecting though. I think the 2b isn't touching at all. I think that is the whiff cancel he is doing during the video. I can't slow it down on youtube, and when I pause it, it pauses at awkward frames. Sometimes it seems as if the 2b and 2c are almost coming out together. What I think it is in my oppinion is it starts 5a to 2c to 2b back to 5a. But I even tried 2a, and it doesn't look right. It's gotta be a 2b move that he is using as a whiff cancel. But, one thing I know for certain, is, when he does the 5a, the opponent is usually falling down and not going up.

Edit: Ok it has to be 2b for sure after the 2c, because you can't 2c before a 2b after you already did a heavy attack. Because it's like rock, paper, scissors. You can reset a heavy with a medium or light attack, but can't reset a combo string with a heavy attack.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 02:04:04 AM by TheGimper »

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2012, 05:29:47 AM »
Yeah, that sounds like a bara cancel. It was technically considered a glitch, which is why it was taken out.

Awww man, that sucks. Glitches is what makes fighting games so technical. Like when they made smash bros brawl ( what a joke ), they took out wave dashing and I don't think you can cancel anymore lol! The only thing they left in there was the fact that you can tech if you fell lmao! Glitches is not a game's flaw, but a game's gain when it comes to fighting. See, i can boost cancel combo all over the screen with every character in big bang beat, because it's infinite boosts, and the boost cancel restarts your combos all over again, kind of like mbac. But, it's cheap, because that isn't skill, it's one button lol. It's still fun though. The more frustrated I get at a game, the better I become, because I push myself. I don't believe in limitations. So yea, glitches helps. Can you imagine a fighting game with no techskill and whiff cancels, like the first mortal kombat ( lmao! ).

It depends on the glitch, some help the game and some don't. The devs decided that they didn't like bara canceling so they took it out. However, fuzzy guarding is still in, it seems to be universal for anime fighters.

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2012, 12:07:26 PM »
Yeah, that sounds like a bara cancel. It was technically considered a glitch, which is why it was taken out.

Awww man, that sucks. Glitches is what makes fighting games so technical. Like when they made smash bros brawl ( what a joke ), they took out wave dashing and I don't think you can cancel anymore lol! The only thing they left in there was the fact that you can tech if you fell lmao! Glitches is not a game's flaw, but a game's gain when it comes to fighting. See, i can boost cancel combo all over the screen with every character in big bang beat, because it's infinite boosts, and the boost cancel restarts your combos all over again, kind of like mbac. But, it's cheap, because that isn't skill, it's one button lol. It's still fun though. The more frustrated I get at a game, the better I become, because I push myself. I don't believe in limitations. So yea, glitches helps. Can you imagine a fighting game with no techskill and whiff cancels, like the first mortal kombat ( lmao! ).

It depends on the glitch, some help the game and some don't. The devs decided that they didn't like bara canceling so they took it out. However, fuzzy guarding is still in, it seems to be universal for anime fighters.

fuzzy guarding lol. That sounds funny. Yea, you're right about that, it depends on how it helps. But seriously, fighting games arn't meant for the casual gamer unless it's a boxing game ( not a fighting game ), or mortal kombat 1 lol. But when it comes to mk2, that's deep. I heard mileena was top tier followed by jax in that game. It sucks because my favorite, reptile, is bottom tier lol, followed by subzero.

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2012, 01:02:16 AM »
Ok, I made a video with my learning with my mistakes and all. The last part of the video has my whiff cancel combo mistakes. So, yea, I made this video because of 3 friends that helped me out:

Numakie

LivingShadow

Cristu

I wanted to make something for everyone to see on how hard I practiced with her. What I practiced, I studied, except for one of the combos that I thought I customized, but there is not a combo that hasn't been done with akiha, for as many videos of people thinking they created certain combos, other videos were already out before them. I need to customize one more thing in the video before i post it to youtube.

This video is not in the wrong forum, or is not done because I think I am good, because I know I'm not good, though I believe I do have the right Idea. This video's main purpose is because of the whiff cancel combo that I needed help with. I still haven't been able to do it. I just added a bunch of stuff and put them in the video, so atleast people can see things that I started out on first. The whiff cancel was the last thing I was trying to learn. I wasn't accidently jumping trying to whiff cancel combo, i was trying to force my character up real fast so I could 5a whiff cancel, and discovered it wouldn't work, and ended up jumping 5a instead. I even tried to whiff cancel with 2b and 2a. I couldn't keep the character juggled. I tried all kinds of stuff and I couldn't pull off a yukinose combo. Other people in this forum have managed to cycle the combo like it's nothing. Everyone else was using ver b when they did it. I'm even using the pc version of ver b. Well, I'm going to finish up the video then post it. I had other moves and combos that I practiced at. I had crappy video software to work with, so it isn't movie quality like yukinose :(

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2012, 03:05:54 AM »
Ok, here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGahT-Rlm3c My failed whiff cancel is at the end lol. I wont spam this topic anymore. It feels like I spammed it from all that typing I did in here. But, it finally paid off. Sorry for all the trouble. I am still trying to do the whiff cancel though. I don't think I'm too far off from learning it.

Offline Kusanagi

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2012, 03:17:07 AM »
Why are you playing an old version of the game ?

Stop practicing stuff you're never gonna use. Start practicing CC stuff...

Stop wasting your time. Srsly.
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2012, 05:45:51 AM »
As far as I know MBAC akiha is about 90% equivalent to C-Akiha. I'm fairly sure the whiff cancel combos still work.

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2012, 12:19:30 PM »
Why are you playing an old version of the game ?

Stop practicing stuff you're never gonna use. Start practicing CC stuff...

Stop wasting your time. Srsly.

It's not an old version, it's an old game. MBAC and MBAACC are 2 different games. Do you know people still go to Super Smash Bros 64 tournaments? If you remember, that game came out for nintendo 64, and you couldn't even wave dash in the first version, but the ariel cancels were cancelled at 100 percent instead of 50 percent cancel like the super smash bros melee version. All in all, super smash bros melee is alot bigger and much more competetive than the nintendo 64 version, but it's all about preferrence. I happen to like bara cancels and can do alot with that. Not being able to do that on MBACC would mess me up, since this is the way that I want to play. I am pretty sure Yukinose is still a fan of MBAC ver b. Like I said, it's all about preferrence. Sometimes it's good to be good at something from the past. You should see all these people who play smash bros brawl and say how much better it is than melee. That is the oppinion of casual gamers, not the opinion of true competetive gamers. As a matter of fact, smash bros brawl had the worst mechanics of the 3. How many characters you get in a game, means nothing if there is no techskill. I could play a fighting game with stick figures, and have just as much fun. A game is about mechanics, and operation skill. I bet you didn't know, that in super smash bros brawl, you can't cancel your moves, and can't wave dash, or dash dance. Well, you could dash dance real fast in one spot, then trip over your feet. But, it's useless in brawl. In MVC2 if you let go of block, you would still be blocking even if you released back on the joypad, but in MVC3 you could get out of the block stun. People still play mvc2. I am not angry in any way, I just wanted to let you know how I felt about the game. 3 New games could come out, and I would still play this version. Actually if I were to play MBAACC I could play crecent moon and play just like MBAC, but still, I want to use the old engine.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 12:23:40 PM by TheGimper »

Offline VanDarkholme

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2012, 12:50:21 PM »
So... Do you play AC with other people or do you just hang out in training mode?

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2012, 01:00:35 PM »
So... Do you play AC with other people or do you just hang out in training mode?

I just stay in practice mode, cause I have no one to practice with. Playing against the computer, isn't going to improve my skill, since computer opponents have bad habbits, so I just practice my comboing. If I practice anything else, it would be teching ( one of the most important things in all fighting games ).  I did beat the game on hardest difficulty, but, if anything, that would make me even worse to practice by beating the game, because like I said, Computers have bad habbits. These habbits will cause you to have bad habbits. But, it's fun every once in awhile since I have no one to play against. But yea, I figure, playing a regular game against the computer beating the game, should only be used to practice teching, and that's the only reason why I play that mode. But, it's rare. Also, it can teach you how to fight under pressure. It would be best though, if eventually I were able to practice with real people. I remember when I use to play Mortal Kombat Gold for Dreamcast back in the day. I use to beat the game on hardest difficulty, and would choose the last tower ( I guess that's what you call them, the selection for how many people you want to fight ), and would get a perfect on everyone on every round including the boss with sector lol.

Offline Kusanagi

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2012, 01:26:57 PM »
Why do you answer to everything with a wall of text and a bunch of info. nobody asked?
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Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2012, 01:29:18 PM »
Why do you answer to everything with a wall of text and a bunch of info. nobody asked?

Not trying to be mean, but, did you expect me not to answer?

I thought you would be waiting for an me to respond. I kind of figured that you would try and bash me, even after my sincere reply. I figured you wouldn't be as understanding, so, I put out some info for you to know.

Offline Kusanagi

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2012, 01:33:12 PM »
you're mean and I find your response offensive.
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Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2012, 01:37:54 PM »
you're mean and I find your response offensive.

I appologize if I sounded mean, But I think your response was much more crucial. I don't care how I type, or how many people want to criticise me for the way I type, or because I don't type with ettiqutte skills. This is not a book that is being published, or a college essay either.

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2012, 01:41:26 PM »
Why do you answer to everything with a wall of text and a bunch of info. nobody asked?
Some people explain stuff and ramble a little. I do the same thing sometimes.

And also to contribute to the topic:
I think you might not be getting the whiff cancel, in that vid you showed yourself practicing in, because you are going right into that part of the combo. You might need to do the start of the combo too in order for it to work.

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2012, 01:46:03 PM »
Why do you answer to everything with a wall of text and a bunch of info. nobody asked?
Some people explain stuff and ramble a little. I do the same thing sometimes.

And also to contribute to the topic:
I think you might not be getting the whiff cancel, in that vid you showed yourself practicing in, because you are going right into that part of the combo. You might need to do the start of the combo too in order for it to work.

Yea, I kind of figured there was something missing lol. Thanks. I remember Cristu explaing that while the combo is being done the opponent is in the air.

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2012, 01:46:23 PM »
At the very minimum he needs to do 2c 5c 2c for it to start working.

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2012, 01:48:02 PM »
At the very minimum he needs to do 2c 5c 2c for it to start working.

Yea, I feel better already :D I'm kind of soaking all this in.

Edit: Ok, I just now figured out how to do the 3rd move ( 2c ). I had to Stall it for a few frames, because If I press it too soon, then it misses. But yea, that should do the trick.

Final Edit: Ok the second move has to have a slight stall also for the 3rd move to work.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 02:08:57 PM by TheGimper »

Offline TheGimper

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2012, 02:56:51 PM »
I'm really excited because I can do 2c 5c 2c a bunch of times consecutively :D and also managed to whiff cancel 2a, and managed to connect. But not sure if I am suppose to connect the 2a or not after the 2c. To whiff cancel 2a, you have to hit 2a right after hitting 2c, while still kneeling, which enables me to do another 2a right after the first one. But I have actually connected the first 2a a few times. It's difficult timing though.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 02:58:30 PM by TheGimper »

Offline Kusanagi

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Re: Exploring the Whiff Cancel Combo
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2012, 06:10:41 PM »
you're mean and I find your response offensive.

I appologize if I sounded mean, But I think your response was much more crucial. I don't care how I type, or how many people want to criticise me for the way I type, or because I don't type with ettiqutte skills. This is not a book that is being published, or a college essay either.

Apology denied, you hurt my feelings
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