hentai
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?

Author Topic: So I got bored and tried to analzye a random match on Youtube...  (Read 3605 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dipstick

  • Poverty Emeritus
  • Melty Waffle
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
  • Magic Circuits: 61
  • cascade of unrepentant doom
    • View Profile
...yeah.

The Nanaya player is Gao, who is really damn good -- probably one of the best Nanaya players in Japan currently. The R.Arc player seems to be named Bunii, whom I know nothing about.

On rereading, this analysis isn't nearly as thorough as I would like it and while it's standard for me to throw out half-finished work, I figure someone may find this useful. Maybe.

Banii v. Gao (HAY GUYS THIS TEXT LINKS TO THE VIDEO ON YOUTUBE HURRR)

0:05 - This is why this match was pointed out to me in the first place. Using 236A as a anti-air with decent upside on trade, used proactively. He trades with a R.Arc j.B from nearly full screen and wins the trade 1900+initative (and it should be more but he drops the rest of the combo) to 500.

0:09 - meaty j.C into airdash neutral jump j.CB. A fairly standard start for oki, but you can branch off into many things. j.C into dash j.B, dash j.C (whiffs), dash j.B(1h)C(whiffs). You can also neutral jump into those, or even neutral jump lean back j.C in specific instances to avoid some normals.

0:11 - 2B5A dash 2A5B 2A airdash j.B 2AC5B5A whiff chain 5C236A. UGHHHHHHHH?! Where the hell are you going to push a button?

0:16 - First instance of 236A in a blockstring. You would think this is bara bait... but it really isn't. The hitstop on the move is significant, but Nanaya is not affected by it.
Which means that the move keeps hitting, and keeps resetting the hitstop. The gotcha here is that you can not bara across hitstop instances, so the window to bara is actually really short (it's also why baraing random multi-hit projectiles is harder than one would initially think). On top of that, the move has a lot of active frames -- any non-invincible bara is instantly out. The third thing is if you bara the last hit, Nanaya is -7 on bara, so you need a move that comes out fairly fast or he can block.

0:17 - 5A (whiffs!) 5B jump j.C aaaaand R.Arc finally gets out. Jumping here is a first level move as she has minor initative but Nanaya is spaced so that a 2B would beat anything she would stick out that would normally win otherwise. It's one of those situtations that looks like a match reset and experienced players know it is, but it isn't a standard one per-se.

0:25 - He's so good he can whiff 236As and bait a heavy poke and punish it! :psyduck:

0:27 - The combo starter here is non-standard (to me, but I suck). Necessary because 623C wouldn't have hit clean from that distance.

0:32 - Why the airdash?

0:42 - Honestly, backdashing here is probably one of your better responses against R.Arc. While technically you have initative, shit happens fast and you need to make that judgement call (since her initative is based on spacing) really fast as the move has very little recovery.

0:45 - If you're going to try to slide through a bloodring, you need to do it really late. You would think you could slide under one, but you'll just be sad if you try.

0:51 - One of the problems with using 236A trade as an anti-air is that you're taking CH2 stun from it. If this was just a normal CH trade the round probably ends (then again what normal would trade in such a spot? Look how high R.Arc is when she gets hit!)

0:58 - And now you get to see that point from 0:51 in reverse. Hurf durf. (He also luckboxes his opponent missing a tech. punish; he should have been dead meat).

1:03 - This R.Arc seems to be responing well to the 236As. First time she blocks, the next two times she jumps out (with Nanaya looking for a poke out), and the fourth time she down-backs it again while Nanaya tries to... bait something?

1:05 - 2B at mid-range+ is a really good normal to use when you think there's some chance of your opponent trying to activiate. Like right now. R.Arc had the good read; just picked a really bad move to do it against.

1:13 - You can't use 236A reactively. A dragon punch this move is not.

1:18 - lolololol even good Japanese players panic button. This looks like a staggered whiff chain attempt that R.Arc sat on too long; Nanaya reads throw and gets there anyway.

1:25 - Airdash into airthrow again. There's a reason why he does it, but damned if I know.

1:28 - 2C5A whiff chain throw is a bullshit throw tick. It would be even more bullshit if it didn't carry such nasty reverse implied damage (1100 the first time around and south of 900 if you run that back twice in quick succession).

1:30 - This setup (j.22 into 5B) will make people flinch, but there's a nasty gotcha to this one. Normally if you try that, you will end up getting a buffered 22B. Which can be funny at times, but is probably not what you want (and if they flinched, you're eating a CH2 stun!). You have to hold 2 until you land, and then return to neutral right before you input the 5B. Also remember that j.22 has 5 frames of landing recovery and counts as a reverse beat.

1:35 - 236A is legitimately hard to punish when used right (with someone in the air).

1:39 - Dash 5CA dash 2AC5A (wc) 2B 2AC5A2AB5C 236A. Two whiff chains in the same sequence, hurr.

He wasn't expecting the 2B to hit at all, which ended up causing the 236A to not hit at all because the hitstun knocked him too far back. Weird.

1:45 - 2B > activiation, again.

2:06 - Gambooooooooool (and he doesn't get there). If that 5B clash frame hits he's doing 6000+ on R.Arc (lol unscaled combo). 5B CH dash 5CB air combo looooool.

2:12 - Even good players fall for that.

2:22 - This is why you need to spend time in training mode, kids.

2:35 - Today's word of the day is 立ち回り. It's fight game jargon for CH fishing. This is an example.

2:42 - Very good reactions by the Nanaya player -- I know if I read 214A I CH against the second blood ring.

2:55 - Look at the momentum on this. SJ from about 2/3rds of the stage out j.C airdash land j.AB into combox. Gets all the way in the corner and then some.

And I have nothing for the other two rounds. Gao catches Kumuhands in rounds four and just pisses that away, and then just comes back and brings the rape in the final round. Actually round 5 is a good example of putting together long relatively seamless sequences with Nanaya. I may go into detail in another post.

Just as a general point, both players move around a lot in the air but throw out very few air normals. This is in contrast to what American players (both in general and for Nanaya and R.Arc specifically) like to do; this is probably due to a higher converstion rate on air-to-air CHs to full combos from Japanese players. Notice the complete lack of j.harmans from Gao. Probably a bit extreme here, due to the higher likelihood of eating a random air bloodring, but still.

One final bit of WTF in the final round: At 4:19, he lands BE 5BB(lolol) into j.C 2C?!?!?!?!. What? The only thing I can even come up with is that this was a horribly failed 623C, but yeesh.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 09:50:33 PM by Dipstick »
Worst Nanaya and second worst Ryougi player in the USA

それがわたしのスタンダード!

Offline Psylocke

  • Psyduck
  • *****
  • Posts: 377
  • Magic Circuits: 120
    • View Profile
    • Blog of Randomness
Re: So I got bored and tried to analzye a random match on Youtube...
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 11:08:26 PM »
+HEAT to you for writing this, this is some great analysis and you pretty much covered all the notable aspects of this match.  Also, I'd like to point out the blockstrings that Gao runs here.  Notice the first notable string that Dippy goes into at 0:11.  This is where learning frame data really begins to help with understanding why certain strings work as they do.  The huge string here is 2B5A dash 2A5B 2A airdash j.B 2AC5B5A whiff chain 5C236A.  2b5a(w) is neutral on block, 2a is -1 on block, 5b is -1 on block, and 5b5a(w) is neutral on block.  From that data, you can see that Gao leaves gaps that either leave him neutral or at a very slight disadvantage.  -1 on block is hardly a big issue since there's always the option of a whiff chain, which is how he gets away with the re-dashins and the IADs.

Dash 5CA dash 2AC5A (wc) 2B 2AC5A2AB5C 236A at 1:39 is notable too.  The most questionable part is the lone blocked 2b, and Gao getting away with being able to continue pressure off of that is not something he'd be able to do if this was an American match(mash dat buttons hurr).  2b is -12 on block by itself, but due to all the other things that Nanaya can do from blocked 2b, the Warc player ends up respecting it to the point where Gao gets all his chain options back from 2b recovering completely.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 11:12:03 PM by Psylocke »
Blog

‹ Tatari|JE › I have another friend who would play MB if it was "less like Mortal Kombat"
‹ HalVegas2 › how do you compare those two ‹ sphy › every time you touch someone in mb it turns into a BRUTALITY

Offline AkiraTheMastodon

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
  • Magic Circuits: 19
  • 暁を映して。
    • View Profile
    • My u2b.
Re: So I got bored and tried to analzye a random match on Youtube...
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2007, 12:27:12 AM »
Nice writing. *re-watches a few more times*
Heatz.
Isn't this Taka?
As far as Nanaya players go, Taka, and AsouAsuna are my favs.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 12:32:09 AM by Akira »
Name courtesy of LoliSauce.
俺のパーフェクトさんすう教室。
答えは答えはゼロ人ゼロ人
なぜならなぜならそれは。。。 幻想郷にバス無い!