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Author Topic: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?  (Read 7353 times)

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Offline Kix

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Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« on: February 24, 2007, 10:10:06 PM »
While I must assume the answer is "no" being that everyone should have figured it out by now if there was, I ask the question anyway.

When I am practicing with Nero, I sometimes come up with some really cool setups. Although I may take a long time to figure them out, I pretty much forget them anyway. I suspect that even though Nero may potentially have better set-up than most people think there are a few obvious things standing in his way:

I. Damage correction
1. makes it not worth it for the most part because the damage may be reduced, this point is even more emphasized when you potentially have magic curcuit use in the picture.

II. Time
1. Moves are slow and do not allow for you to throw out the entire zoo unless your opponent is retarded, especially if they have a faster character/their character has more range than most.
A. Wakeup too fast in general for you really to do much.

I am still looking into anything potentially good, even if highly situational it doesn't necessarily mean entirely useless. I suppose you could throw out some things simply to keep them away besides normal for the setups but this is dependant on many factors.

So, is there really anything at all in the way of Nero's specials that could be useful/really good and is being overlooked?

« Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 07:25:35 AM by Kix »
"This port is going to be outdated faster than you can say "Dance Romanesque and unfinished Romancia" -Dizzynecro

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 04:10:42 AM »
I. Damage correction
1. makes it not worth it for the most part because the damage may be reduced, this point is even more emphasized when you potentially have magic curcuit use in the picture.

II. Time
1. Moves are slow and do not allow for you to throw out the entire zoo unless your opponent is retarded, especially if they have a faster character/their character has more range than most.
A. Wakeup too fast in general for you really to do much.

So, is there really anything at all in the way of Nero's specials that could be useful/really good and is being overlooked?

Damage correction? A.Snakes, j.B and EX Deer make it a moot point. j.B has no proration penalty, and combos starting with an EX Deer hit can net 4000-4500 if you do it right. Also, Nero can consistently garner an easy 2500 damage per air-battle if he wins with a j.C wallslam series.

As for moves, A.Crow is the fastest(or one of the fastest) normal projectile in the game with great recovery, standing B comes out in 5 frames (as fast as most people's A attacks) and so he does fine in the zoning department. B.Snake is fast as hell also. Where he's very slow are anti-air (2.C), vertical attacks (4.C), and air-dashing. You can use 5.A for anti-air since it's quick, and keep in mind that 2.C has less priority against some jumpins than one might think (Satsuki's j.C comes to mind).

Well, I should also mention that we play on a faster speed setting than default (game round time 80) so my Nero can mix up faster than what default speed Nero would be.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 05:39:08 PM by Arlieth Tralare »
<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 05:39:53 PM »
Also, I'm going to post a bit about the Double Snakes glitch soon. A YouTube video might be in order, actually.
<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol

Offline Kix

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 06:48:14 PM »
Well I know about those, but I'm talking more about multiple setups maybe? Like B crow and a snake + a B deer?
"This port is going to be outdated faster than you can say "Dance Romanesque and unfinished Romancia" -Dizzynecro

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2007, 06:53:18 PM »
You don't have time to get too fancy with Nero's summons. This isn't MvC2, so EX Deer is about as annoying as you can get with persistent summons. B.Crow takes a lot of skill to use as well, so anyone who has setups with them is more than welcome to post.
<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol

Offline Kix

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2007, 07:28:47 AM »
That's what I thought. Above when I said I knew about those I wasn't referring to the snake glitch, what is that? I don't really remember seeing anything like that in my match videos.
"This port is going to be outdated faster than you can say "Dance Romanesque and unfinished Romancia" -Dizzynecro

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2007, 08:17:16 AM »
It's a useful trick when you want to make your opponent VERY scared of hitting the ground or attacking. Especially with two A.Snakes covering the entire field. I'll cover it in a new post.
<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol

Offline Sp00ky

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 11:01:49 AM »
We call summon heavy nero setups "the zoo." It's pretty hard to do effectively but actually does have merits and is the area most nero players are very weak in.

Prime 'Zoo' setups that prey on the opponent's fear of summons:

BNB xx EX deer xx immediately A snake. Most opponents will refuse to land in the face of this and will immediately airdash in to you with an attack which can be stuffed with 2C or ex shield xx 5A 2[C]

Cornered opponent: 2B (blocked) xx A snake -> 236C -> 5B. Bad players will try to get out of the 236C and leave themselves open to either getting punished by the A snake or punished by 5B. Good players will block which lets you have another mixup attempt. This setup doubles as an unblockable setup.

Long distance: B crow xx A deer. Even good players fall for this. You super jump or iad in to take away priority from him after the crow and have to deal with an immediate anti air deer. When they stop chasing it do B deer instead for a chance at some mixup.



Also master getting full BNB damage from 5B. U.S. nero players are very weak at this. Even landing 5B xx j.B into a j.C loop is way more damage then just 5Bing them as anti air and then letting them tech.

Techniques like these are just 2 examples of untapped nero potential, and why he's actually better than U.S. players give him credit for.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 11:10:05 AM by Sp00ky »

Offline Kix

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2007, 01:42:37 PM »
Let's say for sake of example there are five tiers. Since the potential advancement is not unrealistic, what tier would you place Nero at in your opinion since you say he is better than US players give him credit for as opposed to whatever the current is (I guess not an actual tier list but from rounded opinon)?
"This port is going to be outdated faster than you can say "Dance Romanesque and unfinished Romancia" -Dizzynecro

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2007, 11:06:17 PM »
Oh?

Well, regarding version B, I think he fits in solidly at B-Class. We both can assume Sion and AkaAkiha are S-Class. He honestly doesn't have the raw speed necessary for A-Class status, but a few tweaks here and there for frames could be the difference between an okay trap and a devastating one.

PS: I think it's creepy that I make my 66th post with my 6 magic circuits as I post on Nero's thread.
<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol

Offline ಠ_ಠ Dizzynecro

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2007, 12:13:47 AM »
YOU are nero you just don't know it yet. 8)

By the way, Are Melty Blood and Melty Bread different games?

Offline Sp00ky

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2007, 09:57:53 AM »
I'll agree with B tier for right now. That precludes his current game which is good but has weaknesses as well as some untapped potential here or there.

I think the move with the most potential to end up being ridiculous is his 214C (think full screen tech punish into 4k damage). It is very underused even by japan, and the people who do use it just use it as a very bad full screen parry bait poke.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 10:12:16 AM by Sp00ky »

Offline Guardian

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2007, 02:06:00 PM »

I think the move with the most potential to end up being ridiculous is his 214C (think full screen tech punish into 4k damage). It is very underused even by japan, and the people who do use it just use it as a very bad full screen parry bait poke.


I guess it's just who I play, but I often like to use 214C as a tech trap after BnB combos, or to make someone think they can sj in on me and punish after a summon.  It works pretty well when they're jumping or dashing around the screen trying to avoid my anti-airs or the EX deer, and they don't have anymore air movement left.  I know it's not the best mixup b/c you can shield it, but it's good for shenanagans.

How would someone suggest getting a combo after a FAR anti air 5B (like they're on the other end of the screen getting hit by the tip of the move)?  The best setup I have after that is to try and trap with B snake~A crow.  If setup correctly the A crow combos into the B snake for j.C loops.  I saw a Japanese player do it in a vid, it looks hella solid to me.  But if there is indeed a way to combo after a far 5B, please share the details, b/c  :mystery:

Sion is S class?  She sure doesn't seem like it; what makes her so good besides dmg, j.C and 2C?

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2007, 04:27:57 AM »
i do the same thing with b.snakes after a 5B antiair, though if they tech FORWARDS you can also attempt an IAD into j,B crossup. This does not work however, if they air tech.

<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol

Offline ii_otoko

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2007, 09:30:35 PM »
Quote
Sion is S class?  She sure doesn't seem like it; what makes her so good besides dmg, j.C and 2C?

etherlite ground


and nero is C-D tier in verB2
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 09:34:04 PM by kuriyayosio »

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Does Nero have more potential than people give him credit for?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2007, 10:54:26 PM »
o_O
<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol