Practicality of this combo?

[frubam]

I know and have read the other preferable satsu tactics(like Chocolate's guide), but there is a combo i use primarily for corner tech punishing(though i'm not that good[aka button mashing ;\], so for now im using it regardless of place-on-screen :\ ) and i want to know why it isnt a good combo to use(for corner purposes), with people telling me i should oki(still dont quite understand what that is :\ ) by throwing him in the midscreen area after the 214a.

...2C ->214a -> j.C

meaning using 214a on a tripped opponent followed by a jumping C? To further clarify, say i use this combo(it doesnt necessarily have to start with j.C, but gives the highest dmg) in the corner or near the corner(as the enemy will be knocked into the corner anyways):

j.C ->5b ->5c ->236c -> 2c -> slight delayed 5c ->214a -> jc -> j.C

the last j.C is moving fwd if near the corner, or straight up j.C if in the corner

I know that people say it isnt a good combo because that j.C can be teched. But using the j.C seems to give you a few options, though whether you can really exploit them, i cant tell(cause im basically a noob :p )

1. Dont tech: follow up with an otg 5b/2c/214a/5c or whatever you use for her otg, though for all the chars i tested(which was most), 5b WILL work(yes even teh Lynz/Miyako/Ciel/ teh Akihas)
Edit: You can also use her oki game with this option by jumping again after the last j.C.  Not to much different than her airthrow oki game with a couple of exceptions:

     a: You being close, so use normal jumps instead of superjumps(but you can still sj in the corner).
     b: Whether an advantage or disadvantage, the opponent has less time to see your movements.

2. Opponent techs forward/back: land with a 5b -> whatever(ive been using 236a/c, but havent figured anything else yet :[ ) it more or less has a very high chance of hitting the enemy.  May be able to shield it, dont know.

3.Opponent techs neutral: use 2/5a, its been too hard to decipher cornerwise, if a person techs back or neutral. 2/5b can be blocked/shielded(i just use 5b regardless >.>)
Edit: When the opponent techs neutral, 5b can be shielded, so be careful.

so to give an example of what can happen, i put some replays in this post.   I use Len only because its normally impossible to otg grab Len(other than an unteched 236a/623a)

Opponent is in crouch guard in replays since 5b and 2/5a is crouch blockable(showing its a valid tech punish)

Testing this out in real matches, im not quite fast enough to pull it off all the time (i always messup even when i land a j.C), I just wanna know if it can be feasble in a real match.

[frubam]

not a lot of satsu players?

[scottind]

your replay files are defective =p

[Hd - phnz - !!!]

not a lot of satsu players?

More like Satsuki players hoard secrets. Or if I were to give any advice all the good players would laugh me off this forum.

[Arlieth Tralare]

Chocolate? You mean Choco(bo)?

[frubam]

your replay files are defective =p

They are practice mode replays.  I redownloaded the file and it works fine for me :\

Chocolate? You mean Choco(bo)?

Yeah, i Norma-ized the name :\

[Harem]

not a lot of satsu players?

More like Satsuki players hoard secrets. Or if I were to give any advice all the good players would laugh me off this forum.

Attaining the mastery of level 0 is a big secret indeed.

[scottind]

yeah according to the forum bums, satsuki is nothin but basic strats

[linalys]

Fault #1

214a -> j.c is not a reliable combo

Not enough stun time means you have to hit j.c immediately and on your way up instead of on your way down.

Fault #2

It's worthless midscreen.

Fault #3

I'm not a Satsuki player but I couldn't do your setups at all.  Half of it being I can't hit 214a j.c, half of it being I land too late to punish with 2a.

Fault #4

Airthrow is SOOO much easier on the execution and the timing for setup afterwards. 

[frubam]

Fault #1

214a -> j.c is not a reliable combo

Not enough stun time means you have to hit j.c immediately and on your way up instead of on your way down.

This is true.  2c -> 214a ->j.C is practically impossible and needs perfect timing.  But, if you 2c -> 5c(delay) -> 214a -> j.C , its not really that hard for me to do...er, half the time 

Fault #2

It's worthless midscreen.

Yep, sure is.  Unless the person techs forward, but this is a combo for the corner, not midscreen.  Thats like trying to do anyone else's corner specific combo midscreen.

Fault #3

I'm not a Satsuki player but I couldn't do your setups at all.  Half of it being I can't hit 214a j.c, half of it being I land too late to punish with 2a.

Its not really that hard to me if you delay 5c.  I dont have any problems with that other than my bad timing issues

Fault #4

Airthrow is SOOO much easier on the execution and the timing for setup afterwards. 

This is true.  Much easier than trying to go for the j.C, but i still like the j.C.  It may not be the best of decisions, but since it knocks the opponent straight to the ground, he has less time to recover.  Like anything, i suppose it'd be situational to what i'd want to use(like doing the air throw to go into heat or something).

[SacchinWantPie]

Do you still like that combo? if so i hope you become an uber satsuki player and suprise people by beating the crap out of them with it.

Regards

[frubam]

Do you still like that combo? if so i hope you become an uber satsuki player and suprise people by beating the crap out of them with it.

Regards

Yes I do.  I use it more efficiently than when i first started this post.  They tech, its a chance for free dmg.  They dont, and you can get some good circuit.

[Sprint]

I stumbled across this myself a bit ago and was wondering why no-one seems to use it.

I think the main reason is that it doesn't leave you with as many options as an airthrow does (especially the superjump/airdash ones). But still, on looking into it it, as long as your timing is up to scratch it provides a foolproof way to punish a tech-happy opponent with a good few thousand points of damage:


(The first few moves after j.C should hit regardless of what the opponent does, and from there it's just a case of reacting to what they did and punishing accordingly. They might not work properly against certain characters, but so far so good)

...2C 5C 214A j.C ... 5B 2C 5C {623B on tech punish}

...2C 5C 214A j.C ... 2C 5B {623B on tech punish}
(2C is easier to time than 5B, but you have less time to react for the 623B)

...2C 5C 214A j.C ... 5B 2B {214C on tech punish}
(236C on forward tech : same motion, you're just facing the other way)
(unscaled 214C / 623C = )


Results:
Tech = A few thousand points of free damage.
No tech = More damage than airthrow, but fewer followup options.


Edit: Deleted character specific notes since I remembered that OTG after j.C behaves differently than after 623B.

[Choco]

Just to let you know, this is actually character-specific. You can go from 623b -> 5b 2c 214a on some characters, 2c 214a on others, 5b 2c (1 hit) 214a, and a few more. Jump cancel the 214a back for a forward tech punish, IAD forward for a neutral or back tech punish. Back techs generally aren't punishable unless your opponent clips the wall a bit.

Not teching the 214a and IADing towards your opponent lands you on their other side for a meaty wakeup option that not many people will be expecting.

I will explain no more and provide no replays. I shouldn't have typed all the above, but I can be a generous Sacchin sometimes.

[Nanako]

yeah according to the forum bums, satsuki is nothin but basic strats

Poor Sacchin....
(Isn't it sad, Sacchin?)

[frubam]

...2C 5C 214A j.C ... 5B 2C 5C {623B on tech punish}

...2C 5C 214A j.C ... 2C 5B {623B on tech punish}
(2C is easier to time than 5B, but you have less time to react for the 623B)

...2C 5C 214A j.C ... 5B 2B {214C on tech punish}
(236C on forward tech : same motion, you're just facing the other way)
(unscaled 214C / 623C = )

I dont know why i didnt think of that.  2C is much easier to time, and works excellently with neutral tech punishes

Results:
Tech = A few thousand points of free damage.
No tech = More damage than airthrow, but fewer followup options.

No teching also nets you some good circuit, about 50% for a full otg.