Convince me not to quit Melty Blood

[rashreflection]

Hello everyone...

I've been playing this game for a little while now, because it's the only game where I can actually play someone good IRL, and I'm growing frustrated with my lack of progress.  I don't need any bullshit motivational speeches - I need some answers, or (preferably) some idea of how to find those answers myself.

Specifically, I play Kouma, because I despise the entire moe aesthetic and he's the best available antidote to that.  I've always liked grapplers, as well, so I figured he would work.

However, it seems like in half the matchups I just get completely shut down.  Characters like Ciel, Nanaya, Len, & Satsuki seem to outprioritize every single one of my normals, and the likes of Warc/Nero/Aoko/Mech keep me out forever.  I honestly have no idea how this character is supposed to be high-tier at all, especially considering that I don't see him do much in Japanese tournaments.

Usually I learn games quickly - only GGXX and VF gave me problems like this.  Am I just approaching this game with an entirely wrong mindset?  I airdash around and try to poke when it looks like they're within range, but usually they jump over my pokes and get free combos thanks to my horrible recovery.  Maybe I should just never initiate the attack with him, but wait until they whiff something?

Or should I switch to another character to learn the game?  I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance, and see some of you guys at Final Round,
Josh.

[Pfhor]

Watch better videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mneyD7seQc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvzDEfSpoP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4UuI38cSR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQIt_Qdv4lo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1_oPP3bMbk

As far as I understand, kouma is a defensive (Defensive doesn't necessarily mean block all the time, but zone with your faster moves to get counterhits and block when they are in your face) character until you get a knockdown (airthrow), then use his superjump airdash mixups outside of a corner, or meaty poke > throw mixups when you get them in a corner. His priority isn't the best but it isn't that bad either, play the other characters more to learn what moves beat what and at what range and when you should just block and stop trying to stuff their moves.

[Draku]

If you must use a "non-moe" character; use Warakia or Nrvnqsr as alternatives if you can't do Kouma right. Nrvnqsr has great range and his beasts are pretty damn useful. Warakia also has range and isn't used much, but he's actually pretty good. Alternatively, listen to Pfhor.

[jiyuna]

Kouma's hard, use Nanaya.

[Pfhor]

Yeah if you want like ken-like easy mode pick up nanaya but he doesn't have much to offer in terms of high quality mixups. You probably won't need them though since this is american Melty blood WHATS GOOD. Jiyuna beats my shit for free so whatever.

[motoh]

Convince you not to quit?  It's obvious you still want to play, given that you're asking that.  So simply put, don't quit.  Learn from the people who play Kouma.  Learn the people who are thrashing you, and find the holes.  Make them afraid of those holes.  Once you can fight back against their seemingly unbreakable priority, they won't be so brash or brave, and you'll be able to apply what Kouma's capable of more offensively.

~M

[F9|Chibi]

Am I just approaching this game with an entirely wrong mindset?

Yes.

Kouma has to get in first, then once he's in, you go to town.

This game isn't as easy to get decent at as you may think it is, so don't dismiss it ;O!

Kouma has a pretty simple playstyle to adhere to, it's just working around certain match ups that'll have you frustrated, given the nature of his character and all.

And yeah, a good portion of MB is getting into the guy's head and staying there, so the likes of punishing whiffed moves (baiting, or what have you) plays a part too.

Keep at it :F!

[Devereaux]

It might just be me, but I think Kouma causes people to want to quit Melty.

But I am quitting. Not due to a player but due to various mechanics and move properties and other bullshit that I've grown annoyed enough with that I don't really consider the enjoyment I derive from the game worth the time I spend on it.
GGs~

[F9|Chibi]

He says that but he entered WTX anyway.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Hello everyone...

I've been playing this game for a little while now, because it's the only game where I can actually play someone good IRL, and I'm growing frustrated with my lack of progress.  I don't need any bullshit motivational speeches - I need some answers, or (preferably) some idea of how to find those answers myself.

Specifically, I play Kouma, because I despise the entire moe aesthetic and he's the best available antidote to that.  I've always liked grapplers, as well, so I figured he would work.

However, it seems like in half the matchups I just get completely shut down.  Characters like Ciel, Nanaya, Len, & Satsuki seem to outprioritize every single one of my normals, and the likes of Warc/Nero/Aoko/Mech keep me out forever.  I honestly have no idea how this character is supposed to be high-tier at all, especially considering that I don't see him do much in Japanese tournaments.

Usually I learn games quickly - only GGXX and VF gave me problems like this.  Am I just approaching this game with an entirely wrong mindset?  I airdash around and try to poke when it looks like they're within range, but usually they jump over my pokes and get free combos thanks to my horrible recovery.  Maybe I should just never initiate the attack with him, but wait until they whiff something?

Or should I switch to another character to learn the game?  I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance, and see some of you guys at Final Round,
Josh.

If you quit, I'll be a sad panda 

Edit: Besides who else is gonna help me rep team MidWest at the Melty Cup

[F9|Chibi]

If you quit, I'll be a sad panda 

Edit: Besides who else is gonna help me rep team MidWest at the Melty Cup

I can relate to him.

Your character is fucking retarded.

[pbj_mixxa]

Edit: Besides who else is gonna help me rep team MidWest at the Melty Cup

<- (After some serious practice of course!)


Josh, all I can say is I probably feel you better than anyone else on these boards.  I too have practiced continuously in all sorts of games (GG, MB, and AHF are the first to come to mind), but I never see much progress with my skills.  I suck at GG and MB and the only reason I'm decent at AHF is because the entire community sucks!  Now, though I probably haven't played GG and MBAC as long as you have, the fact that I pretty much go to tourneys only to get my ass handed to me every which way by players even I think I should be able to beat is more than just annoying.

All I can say is, just ask yourself if you like this game.  If you don't, then I'd say it's best to quit because you can't be good at a game you don't like.  Think about it for a while... and see you at FRXI.


Consider yourself lucky you have a damn good player to train with!

Crap, I just went on some bullshitty rant... but whatever!

[Greyvangelist]

The fact that you're pleading with us to convince you not to quit Melty Blood is an indication you're a hell of a lot more into it than I am. The only reason I still play Melty Blood is because of the community on IRC and what not. And I am just a keyboard netplayer who plays when he is bored as hell.

If you really like the game that much, keep at it.

[S-Blade]

Am I just approaching this game with an entirely wrong mindset?

Yes.

Kouma has to get in first, then once he's in, you go to town.

Remember this. Play by it.

All of his bad matchups are bad because the enemy makes it difficult to get inside. If they're outprioritizing you, you're poking too much and they're in your face too much....if you had the correct mindset you would loving this and it would be in your advantage.

I think the problem is you trying to do the same thing over and over again as opposed to taking different approaches. Focus when you play as always, but not so much to completely focus on executing one task perfectly when it can be beat by your opponent simply doing something else.

This game is pretty execution light (especially Kouma) so there's a very distinct difference between "oh, I messed that up on timing, I'll try again" and "this flat out isn't working and I need to try something else". If you're losing in guessing/RPS situations (dash in for anyone), the correct mindset to adopt while your ass is getting comboed is the second.

[Draku]

It might just be me, but I think Kouma causes people to want to quit Melty.

The funny thing is this is actually true from my experiences too. Every person I've tried to get into the game that picked Kouma as their main quit shortly after and said that they didn't like certain mechanics.

[Alfonse]

IMO, playing Kouma is a lot less difficult than trying to pick up Zangief in a SF game. 

[asdfqwer]

Kouma's 2b stuffs all air moves 

[Sledeau]

I played Hisui, got decent (or what I considered decent) at her, dropped her after I started to get frustrated. Same with Kouma. I've managed to stick with Red Arc. (Am I a tier whore, or what? People have always told me what bullshit my characters are even if they're kicking my ass.) If you find you have a hard time improving with Kouma, either try to see if you can find a new inspiration for him (watching JP Match vids for example), or try another character. Like Warakia or Nero, as someone suggested.

And yeah, Kouma's 2b is great for anti air, but it won't hit someone coming on top of you, like a SJ Ciel or Nanaya when you're in the corner.

[rashreflection]

Thank you very much, everyone.

In general, I eat lots of throws because I can't seem to get my jab out when people try them.  This gets me scared and I start trying to chicken block and OMG it's a 2A and I die.

After an airthrow at midscreen, I have trouble getting any real mixup.  People block my superjump->backdash, or jump around on wakeup if they see me try any other air shenanigans.  Vids will probably help a lot with this, so I should get studying.

I have no idea how to keep up any sort of extended pressure.  Any time I go to the whiffed 5A, people jump/mash out.  Again, vids likely come into play here.

When I see someone jump toward me, I'll stick out a 2B.  Then they airdash and get to use whatever crossup air move they have to start a combo on me for free.  The risk/reward on ground pokes in general seems really bad in this game, and my character has a pretty terrible air game, so now I'm seeing what you guys mean about just having to block a lot.

Alright, enough of this stuff...


To go even deeper, my natural tendency is to approach these games in the way Dave Sirlin describes in his CCC2 tutorials - view the characters' moves as rectangles, and use these rectangles to control the most important space.  I think what's unusual to me here is that Kouma's normals are very much in the traditional SF mold, yet the engine is much crazier and really throws off those core concepts.  I have experience in GGXX, but with ranged characters (Bridget, Potemkin, now Axl)...so I never fully understood how airdash impacts the game.

I'm not going to quit the game, and I'll stick with Kouma.  Just got a lot of hurdles I need to get past, since this entire experience is so different from anything I've ever tried.  Maybe watch jpn matches frame-by-frame or something...and realize that this could take some time.

Thanks again, all,
Josh.

[furix]

If you want to use non-moe characters play Ciel or Warcueid, they are totally non-moe.

[Devereaux]

In general, I eat lots of throws because I can't seem to get my jab out when people try them.  This gets me scared and I start trying to chicken block and OMG it's a 2A and I die.

Don't try to poke a throw setup, backdash instead.

For everything else, vids and practice mode.

[Alfonse]

Above all else, you have to enjoy Melty Blood and have fun! It's a video game! 

[F9|Chibi]

In general, I eat lots of throws because I can't seem to get my jab out when people try them.

So eat the throw. Time the button press right and all you'll be given is 800, big deal.

This gets me scared and I start trying to chicken block and OMG it's a 2A and I die.

Kouma isn't really the type of character to make use of chicken blocking. If you think they're going to 2A you during this try and shield on the way down.

After an airthrow at midscreen, I have trouble getting any real mixup.  People block my superjump->backdash,

Kouma excels in using the double jump momentum for mix ups. In MB if you jump right completley over a person in an arc (I guess you could say this is leap frogging in a way) and then jump straight up at any point after you jumped over them, you'll automatically turn to face your opponent. Try throwing this into your game. I'll see about getting you some prime Kouma vids to x-copy mix ups with.

or jump around on wakeup if they see me try any other air shenanigans.

If you think someone's going to backdash (or jump back) you can combat this by using 6C some more. It'll catch them and launch them up, and allow you an air throw and knock down, resetting the situation for you in your favor.

Vids will probably help a lot with this, so I should get studying.

I'll get on that!

I have no idea how to keep up any sort of extended pressure.  Any time I go to the whiffed 5A, people jump/mash out.  Again, vids likely come into play here.

This is going to be offensive to the scene here in the US (and includes myself) but doing extending pressure to anyone in the US isn't going to happen. I watch vids of Hisui doing these long block strings with IAD's thrown in that go on for like 4-6 seconds and I'm like that's good shit! But you try that shit on ANYONE here (well not anyone, but I'm not going to name names) and they're just going to start mashing something out. Half of it is out of panic, and the other half is simply not knowing any better since they don't get punished for it. Same goes for conditioning into acting a certain way, but that's another story for another day. If you're doing a string and you notice your opponent always throwing out a 2a/b/c in hopes of getting you off of them then start baiting it! End your strings short, bait that crouching normal, then IAD j.C and make it fucking hurt. Or use the above example with 6C as well for counter hit.

When I see someone jump toward me, I'll stick out a 2B.  Then they airdash and get to use whatever crossup air move they have to start a combo on me for free.  The risk/reward on ground pokes in general seems really bad in this game, and my character has a pretty terrible air game, so now I'm seeing what you guys mean about just having to block a lot.

This isn't SF / KoF / etc. You've got wake up dodge, wake up shield, back dash, foward dash (yes, I'm serious, once in a bloody blue moon), 22A, or even 22C (which grants you super armor as well for a second or two). In reality your best bet REALLY is to block. I know it sounds dumb, but no block string lasts forever, and everyone's got patterns / nuances to exploit. The other options should be used very, very sparingly, as if you keep using them (even when they are working) they'll form bad habits when you get to play other people, and that's obviously not a good thing.

I'm not going to quit the game, and I'll stick with Kouma.  Just got a lot of hurdles I need to get past, since this entire experience is so different from anything I've ever tried.  Maybe watch jpn matches frame-by-frame or something...and realize that this could take some time.

Thanks again, all,
Josh.

Good to hear.

I'll try to give tips / pointers at FRXI, but I still consider myself a slightly above average player, so take them with a grain of salt.

:3

[Mailorder]

I'd try other characters anyway - I doubt there are any pro Kouma players that have only played Kouma.  I'd say the great Kouma players are great because they've played every character in the game and know most of their block strings - which makes a Kouma player more patient : better at blocking, and better at knowing when to strike.

I started with Kouma and quit when I played him for like two months and a Len who practiced for a week slaughtered me.  now I play Mech-Hisui, and I find that now my casual Kouma is miles better than my Kouma from when I quit him.  mostly because I've learned patience - it's okay if you've been blocking for 10 seconds, don't poke out until you're sure.

but yeah, you already know this.

[Arlieth Tralare]

The wakeup buffer for commands in Melty Blood is kinda LOL, which makes blocking an even safer bet than usual. Other games have wakeup priority as a design principle in mind (3rd Strike, KoF, etc)... but MB obviously does not. I even miss wakeup Heat despite mashing on the Q button sometimes.