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Author Topic: PC Current Code Tournament Standard  (Read 18636 times)

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Offline Komidol

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2011, 10:05:47 AM »
I think it's true that for America it's harder to get out and run more tournies, which is why single elim wouldn't work for like majors and stuff, but if it's a small local and people want a reason to go out and see each other every week, why not run small, quick tourneys that you can do in a Friday night?  If there are more small tourneys like that, people will be more prepared for big tourneys.  We can do both! 

At the end of the day, a tourney is often a full day dedication because it's not only 2/3 matches - but also it's double elimination.  That means you can fight 18 rounds and still get last place!  That's 29.4 minutes of play if no one stops the clock with heat! That's 1 round!  Sure, it means you get to play a lot, but it also means a 64 man tournament takes 8 hours to run(on average length, upwards of 15 with maximum play time).  Let's start engaging in some activities that people can do on a Friday night and get people playing for good tourney EXP, and always play the most and be at our best, all the time! 

I don't think there's anything we need to improve on in our majors/big regional tournaments.  We just need to overcome the lack of game centers and make efforts to play more.  A small, quick tournament is extra incentive to do that.

I honestly feel like the mental game isn't any weaker from single elim.  If nothing else, it's stronger, because those decisions mean all the more, and risk taking means that much more.  "If I take this silly risk here, I may lose, but I have the entire next match to make up for it."  Rather than "Do I have enough health to potentially survive this one match right here right now and am I prepared to head home in this round if I don't and lose." I think it puts more emphasis on making smarter decisions, faster! Making smarter decisions quicker I feel is more effective than learning them the hard way through longer casual sessions or even tournament matches. 

There's definitely pro's and con's to both.  A lot of people are calling me out recently saying things like "those top JP players really aren't as good as everyone says they are" and you say this format is "Japan fanboyism", but I think if the community works hard (despite that it may be more difficult because we're not just a train station ride away from a major arcade), we can really proliferate melty and get more people playing locally.  I want to turn more potential players into real players and see people get better.  At the end of the day, those mythical Japanese players, that I have met, ARE THAT GOOD.  We can be too.  I mean, in the end, we want our skill level to be as high as JP, right?  Is that not a goal we have, to win?  A lot of people play to have fun and for the community but mostly everyone here has a competitive spirit that drives them to keep playing and getting better.  Let's do that.  And right now, JP melty is the strongest region for melty.  So why not borrow their playing   institutions a bit and try it out?  I honestly see no harm in it!   :psyduck:

I mean, maybe this isn't the same for everybody, but I definitely, definitely remember every mistake that led to me losing in tournament.  But what sent me to losers?  Usually not as much a month or two down the line.  I think those single-elim mistakes stick out more. 

Like I'm saying, venue fee is huge in America, I'm not saying lets make NEC with the 30$ venue fee a single elim tournament.  But hey, maybe Connecticut at battlegrounds wants to run weeklies and generate more interest in the game.  Maybe Rokrew wants to find more people at 8 on the break if they say hey, we're here every Friday.  These sorts of things that create entry ways for new players. 

I mean, in accordance with the thread, I'm trying to consider time management for tournament organizers.  That way we can run those extra events and those team tournaments.  I don't want to fight, that's just how I feel, really. 

I also really like team tournaments!  I would like to see more of those, for sure. 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 02:34:52 PM by Komidol »
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Offline ehrik

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2011, 10:49:22 AM »
I agree I don't really see a harm in trying both, if it doesnt work out then whatever
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Offline Tonberry

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2011, 11:12:38 AM »
Komidol, we don't have 64 man local tournaments for melty.  Who cares if that would hypothetically take 8 hours to run if every match took as long as possible?  The other side to that "oh if I take this risk I could lose and go home right here because it's single elim" argument is "well if I just diceroll they can't possibly know what I'm going to do since this is only single elim and they barely got to experience playing me"
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Offline mauve

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2011, 11:17:36 AM »
Since Komidol messaged me and we had it out in PMs for a bit, to prevent things from derailing further I'll summarize things.

Single elim isn't really the issue here, it's about getting people hype and interested in playing. In this case, Komidol's argument is about having more time for the casuals and hoping it'll be more motivating for players if they get beat sooner, since they'll probably lose anyway if they're going to. I actually don't really have a problem with this and am entirely in favor of more time for people to just play when they get together. My view is more that circulation of knowledge and experience is the most important thing, and that's the best way to get people interested, not just making them kinda salty when they lose.

I also don't think single elim is so much weaker mentally as it has a very different set of goals, as do 2/3 and 3/5 and any other setup really. The different format necessitates that your longer term strategy adjust along with it. Single elimination puts more focus on recognizing the opponent's style and running counter to it, and less on being able to train them. It still happens, but depending on the match goes you might not have all that many chances to do it. I don't believe America is well suited to tournaments of this format, due to players being no doubt strong mentally but having less time to familiarize themselves with each other due to distance. As I said, you can't just go to an arcade and play all kinds of people any time you feel like it. But if the goal is just to get people spending more time playing, rather than improving the quality of the tournament itself and its results, that's a pretty different thing.

My main point is that tournaments do not exist in a vacuum. There's a whole community to work with, and depending on what your goals are different formats for events can work. Hell, even a few completely insane formats would be pretty good at getting people interested. It's all about what you're trying to accomplish.

Either way, none of this has a damn thing to do with the PC setup and I'm sorry for derailing things!

Offline abitofBaileys

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2011, 02:10:50 PM »
Forcing ppl to play with stick is stupid. I never played with a stick in my life and I probably won't. I can play best with keyboard. Forcing me to use a stick will only result in 1st round lose. This is preprogrammed.

I don't see a problem using a selfmade keyboard from a PS2 controller; it's still a PS2 controller. Only the keys are rearranged and swapped with PC keys. It's still the very same thing.

Offline Dipstick

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2011, 08:21:57 PM »
Forcing ppl to play with stick is stupid. I never played with a stick in my life and I probably won't. I can play best with keyboard. Forcing me to use a stick will only result in 1st round lose. This is preprogrammed.

I don't see a problem using a selfmade keyboard from a PS2 controller; it's still a PS2 controller. Only the keys are rearranged and swapped with PC keys. It's still the very same thing.
There's one issue I could see with a hacked keyboard controller -- what happens when you feed the game input it wasn't designed to take (specifically, up/down and left/right on a pad). Granted, since MB has its roots as PC game the odds of weirdness from this are remote, but it has been an issue in fighting games, even recently. For example, you have people using Hitbox controllers in MvC3, where holding the left & right buttons will let you block both ways at the same time.

If nothing like this occurs then I would not care; nobody questioned it when people would play on hacked keyboards with a PS2 cord.
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Offline Komidol

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2011, 03:45:20 AM »
Forcing ppl to play with stick is stupid. I never played with a stick in my life and I probably won't. I can play best with keyboard. Forcing me to use a stick will only result in 1st round lose. This is preprogrammed.

I don't see a problem using a selfmade keyboard from a PS2 controller; it's still a PS2 controller. Only the keys are rearranged and swapped with PC keys. It's still the very same thing.

It's the hassle of unplugging the stick and resetting the configuration - any pad/keyboard-controller would do it now.  It just slows the tournament down.  I mean it sucks you don't have majors out in Germany, and if you did fly out to another country to play I'm sure we'd compensate for you, but at the risk of holding a double standard, we want to encourage people to not use either or.  As far as the tournament organization time is concerned, it's the same amount of time to hook up a keyboard/controller to a PS2, but now nearly 3x as long if we had two nice sticks good to go.  Your circumstances are a little special Rowanism, I wouldn't make it the norm for the entire tournament scene which is trying to fight to go smoothly and expeditiously along side other major games at majors like NEC.   
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2011, 04:35:13 AM »
Forcing ppl to play with stick is stupid. I never played with a stick in my life and I probably won't. I can play best with keyboard. Forcing me to use a stick will only result in 1st round lose. This is preprogrammed.

I don't see a problem using a selfmade keyboard from a PS2 controller; it's still a PS2 controller. Only the keys are rearranged and swapped with PC keys. It's still the very same thing.
There's one issue I could see with a hacked keyboard controller -- what happens when you feed the game input it wasn't designed to take (specifically, up/down and left/right on a pad). Granted, since MB has its roots as PC game the odds of weirdness from this are remote, but it has been an issue in fighting games, even recently. For example, you have people using Hitbox controllers in MvC3, where holding the left & right buttons will let you block both ways at the same time.

There's been research into this. It's not an issue in Melty since opposite inputs cancel each other out.

Offline zeech

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2011, 06:14:31 AM »
-Disable all power features to save power.

This line reads really ambiguously, it kinda sounds like you are asking people to activate those features, so that they can save power.

You should maybe edit it to:
"Disable all power-saving features so PC will run at maximum performance."

--------------------------------------------------

I wonder if there are any All-In-One PCs (eg. http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/img/products/e/2/e2d4866ea6828d3806235a88e5cd0a46-0.jpg?mark ) that fulfill FG requirements of having a low latency LCD screen and a CPU+GPU fast enough to run games on?

Seems like it would be the most convenient of all the options, basically just an LCD screen that happens to be able to run the game.  Even better than a laptop or a console :)

Offline Greg

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2011, 07:13:34 AM »
I know that my lcd has a 2ms response time. Is response time what governs lag?
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Offline mauve

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2011, 09:03:26 AM »
I know that my lcd has a 2ms response time. Is response time what governs lag?
No, response time has to do with the ghosting on the screen. Manufacturers do not tell you the display lag, sadly.

Here's a good thread: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/

Offline Dipstick

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2011, 09:04:12 AM »
It's the hassle of unplugging the stick and resetting the configuration - any pad/keyboard-controller would do it now.  It just slows the tournament down.  I mean it sucks you don't have majors out in Germany, and if you did fly out to another country to play I'm sure we'd compensate for you, but at the risk of holding a double standard, we want to encourage people to not use either or.  As far as the tournament organization time is concerned, it's the same amount of time to hook up a keyboard/controller to a PS2, but now nearly 3x as long if we had two nice sticks good to go.
So you're now proposing that not only people should be playing only on stick, that they have to play on specifically provided sticks?

Hell no. You're going to have every pad player in this community looking for your head. Never mind that people like playing on their own sticks, as they are tweaked with different hardware, layouts, and so forth.

Plus, whoever's stick is on the setup is going to freak out when someone like me starts playing. D:

I know that my lcd has a 2ms response time. Is response time what governs lag?
It's one of many things. The issue is that the numbers the manufacturers provide are more or less bunk; this is something that needs to be independently tested. There's a very good FAQ about this on SRK's Tech Talk forum, and a database of displays to be tested to have less than 16ms of display lag.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2011, 10:22:53 AM »
So you're now proposing that not only people should be playing only on stick, that they have to play on specifically provided sticks?

Yeah I think you have to let people play on what they want, so long as you don't have issues like keyboard inputs that can input for both players and such.
But if your input device does not work when you plug it in because you have no drivers, then there is a time consuming problem to fix.
Guess we'll have to wait and see, but it's prolly safe to say this:
If your computer at home required you to install drivers to get your input device running, bring a usb device with your drivers on it to any event you go to.
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Offline Cristu

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2011, 12:46:57 PM »
About one pressing others buttons in case of 2 keyboard: people can remove all they keys they arent going to use for playing, so they can't press buttons other then theirs. But well, it's not like people would press other buttons anyway, but this can be done...
A little bit of console ain't too bad.

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2011, 12:56:27 PM »
Contrary to popular belief, drivers are not necessary for a lot of devices that they come with. I don't know about sticks but all the pads I've plugged into my comp were usable from the get-go as long as the program in question had a way to set buttons integrated into it.

Offline Komidol

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2011, 01:45:35 PM »
I think it would be helpful if we had say 2-3 setups, in which one or two of the setups had dedicated stick-play setup on them.  As in atleast one where we're not changing out a controller for configuration and people just sit down and play. 

Dippy, if the person is willing to dedicate their stick to that setup than I doubt they're going to freak out when someone starts playing on it. 

As much as I would like to see everyone use arcade sticks, I know the scene is too small to be picky about things like that.  I'm just saying maybe the streaming setup or something should just have continuous matches on bracket on sticks.  That'll move everything along really smoothly and quickly. 
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2011, 02:23:24 PM »
Oh yeah, and we'll two stations with people fanning you.

One will feature hot chicks cosplaying as napkins.

The other will feature hot guys crossplaying as girls cosplaying as napkins.

All we have to ban is people who need drivers for their controller / keyboard / toaster.

If you can plug it in and play that's all that matters imo.
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2011, 02:46:57 PM »
Try $15 Radioshack converters son.

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Offline ehrik

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2011, 02:58:54 PM »
why would you get crappy radioshack converters with inpins are like 5 dollars more but 10x better? :|
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Offline Tonberry

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2011, 02:59:18 PM »
Try $15 Radioshack converters son.

From 2006.

Why you hatin on my Radioshack converter?  :psyduck:
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2011, 03:16:07 PM »
I'm not hating on them, I fucking loved them.

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Offline Cristu

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2011, 04:07:26 PM »
Plug and play + default configuration for the speed/hype :fap:

I sleep/unhype so hard when people goes buttom config or want to choose what keys to use >.<
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Offline papagaio

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2011, 07:15:34 PM »
I'd like to suggest Ps2 > LPT Switch  adapters but I think LPT-switch is too old for you
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2011, 06:23:58 PM »
I guess this is kinda related. Not sure if I need to start a new thread.
Can anyone actually find an external capture card / frame grabber that has DVI input (Not just S-Video/RCA)?
I can find some, but they are all either internal PCI/PCIE cards or crazy expensive external solutions for companies.
Figured I'd start looking for something with DVI input for when 1.07 drops.

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Offline shin neferio

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Re: PC Current Code Tournament Standard
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2011, 10:43:35 PM »
why would you get crappy radioshack converters with inpins are like 5 dollars more but 10x better? :|

yea inpin are the way to go

Plug and play + default configuration for the speed/hype :fap:

I sleep/unhype so hard when people goes button config or want to choose what keys to use >.<


i agree some what. only when the players switching out have no idea what they are doing. like at EVO this past year. early rounds some players took forever but as the day grew on and it was more skilled players. switching sticks, pads, button config went super fast.