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Author Topic: F Miyako  (Read 21610 times)

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Offline LoliSauce

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F Miyako
« on: May 12, 2010, 12:02:44 PM »
Okay, individual moon style threads are long overdue.  Time to bust this shit out.

Table of Contents  (Search for the stuff in brackets for quick navigation)
-Introduction
  -F Miyako at a Glance  [int01]
-The Basics
  -Normals  [bas01]
  -Specials  [bas02]
  -Combos  [bas03]
-In Depth
  -Pressure and Mixups  [dep01]
  -Tech Punish vs Okizeme  [dep02]
  -Meter Management  [dep03]
-Conclusion
  -Closing Words  [con01]



F Miyako at a Glance  [int01]

Pros:
-Very high damage
-Doesn't require extremely high execution
-Strong air normals
-Good pressure (for F moon)
-Best normal throw in the game
-Relatively easy for beginners to pick up

Cons:
-Short reach
-No projectiles or other zoning tools
-Horrible backdash
-Very few defensive options
-Reliant on meter usage for her best options
-Learning curve on her air dash movement


The Basics - Normals  [bas01]

5a/2a - Plus frames on block and fast as hell.  Standard shit.  Note that 5a is slightly shorter range than 2a, so you can 5aaa (whiff) 2a in blockstrings to bait poke out attempts.

5b/2b - Neutral frames on block, good reach, and moves you forward.  These are your best normals.  They are good for poking, pressure, combo starting, shield punishing, etc.  From a max range hit with either, you'll have to combo into the Max Range BnB (see combo section).

5c/BE5c - Large forward movement, huge hitbox, nice damage and good hitstun/blockstun.  Charge it up for an overhead that wallslams (for a free combo if you're close enough to the corner), or just partial charge it for frame trap goodness.  Watch out for shield if you're gonna charge/partial charge though.  It has the highest priority vs jump ins of any of her normals in this moon style, but because it wallslams vs airborne opponent and it has somewhat sizable startup, it's not really a good option most of the time.  

Note: There's an awkward glitch that can happen when you try to 5c vs an enemy attack that rushes them forward, where you will actually pass through the opponent without either of you hitting.  I've personally had it happen against F Kouma's rekkas and C vAkiha's momiji (her dashing shoryu), so I assume it can happen against anything with fast enough forward movement.  Because of the large recovery on a whiffed 5c, this usually isn't advantageous for Miyako.

2c - Reaches just a little further than 2b, but it's slow on startup and recovery, so be careful with it.  Off of any random 2c hit, you can go into the Max Range BnB (see combo section) or make use of the knockdown for okizeme.

6c/BE6c - This is her only command normal in this moon style.  It's main use is for combos (high damage!), but it can be charged for massive guard damage (600).  It has deceptively long forward reach, so it's good for catching people falling from an air counterhit, but it has far too much startup and recovery to be a good poke.  If the fully charged version hits an airborne opponent, it will cause an untechable knockdown (not that you'll ever actually see that happen).

j.a - Pretty standard.  Really small range.  There's hardly any blockstun from it, so you can tick with it into a ground throw I guess (but that's pretty predictable).

j.b - Godlike air normal.  Strong forward (and backward) priority and has lots of active frames, so stick this out early and be ready to combo off all the counterhits.  It's also a godlike crossup, but be careful because everyone tries to shield that shit.

j.c - Another great air normal.  It has deceptively great downward range and priority.  Use this as your primary air-to-ground normal.  Properly spaced, you'll see it beat out a lot of shit (like many antiair normals).

6b (Shield Counter Extension) - This is not a simple command normal, but rather an awkward and rather useless extension to Miyako's shield counter (236d after any successful shield).  It pokes out with a palm thrust similar to her j.b (or H Miyako's 5bb) and will wallslam on hit.  As far as I can tell through testing, it doesn't extend the invincibility on your shield counter at all, nor will it even be able to hit the opponent unless the counter puts them into a counterhit stun (due to the 236d launch).  It's also not useful for comboing, as it consumes one of your limited slams/bounces that you need to do most of your BnBs.  I didn't think to check how much damage or proration it adds, but for all practical purposes it is useless.


The Basics - Specials  [bas02]

236x (Flying Kick) - Unless you're feeling especially XD RANDOM, the only use for these moves is in combos.  A version CAN be used as antiair, but it's dangerous if they block it.  If you have MAX though, IH cancel 236b for one of her fastest mixups.

623x (Crescent Kick) - This can be used on the ground or in the air, but the air versions are literally useless outside of combos.  The grounded crescent kicks can be very useful though.  The a/b versions have an optional second kick (you can choose when to time the kick, or whether to kick at all) which is useful for pressure strings and baiting shields.  There is some weirdness with the b version's green hitbox (the area in which you can be hit), so sometimes it'll dodge attacks.  Don't use it as if it were a reliable reversal though.  The EX crescent kick is your only true reversal (invincible startup), but don't get predictable with it or you'll get baited and punished.  EX crescent kick is also essential for her Fullscreen BnB (see combo section).

214x (Dokan Punch) - These aren't really that useful in F, outside of charging them for overheads.  But really, if you don't use them for any reason other than overheads, people are going to catch on quick.  They can be somewhat useful in blockstrings.  BE214a, 214b, and BE214b are all only -3f on block (somewhat difficult to punish), and 214b can get you back in dat ass with its huge forward leap.  Also since you're technically airborne during most of 214b, you can hop over some sweeps, but it's character/moon dependent and I haven't really tested what it works against fully.

421x (Elbow) - These can be used in the air or on the ground.  Like the flying kicks, the primary use of these is in combos.  The elbows will always ground bounce an airborne opponent, which is key to her combos.  The EX elbow is a godlike combo ender for guaranteed knockdown in the corner.  They aren't bad in pressure though, with the massive guard damage (600, like the BE6c) and ability to cancel into whiff throw, jump, or IAD for restarting pressure.  Just don't use them too often in pressure, or else you'll end up finding out just how punishable they are.

22x (Stomp) - Good for pressure strings, mostly.  A stomp is nice for getting untechable knockdown midscreen, and it gives slight frame advantage in blockstrings.  B stomp is slow, but hits low for a free launch into combo.  It has slight negative frame advantage on block, so it's riskier to use than A stomp.  It can also be used during a quick otg string to bait out a ground tech and punish for free.  C stomp is extremely useful and also extremely vulnerable.  Any hit you take during the startup jump is an automatic counterhit, but if used correctly the opponent shouldn't be able to tell if you're doing a normal j9 into late j.c or 22c.  C stomp can be used in pressure for surprise low, has ridiculous frame advantage if blocked, and can even be used as a risky dodge and punish type maneuver to hop over an attack and stomp from behind.

Note: 22a has invulnerable frames on frame 1 and clash frames from frame 2-7, and 22b has clash frames from frame 3-12.  Because of 22b's long startup, using it to clash reversal doesn't work so well, but 22a works GREAT.  22a can potentially be used as a reversal, though it's risky and doesn't give much reward (low damage into knockdown).  Even better though, 22a can be used on reaction whenever you have a ground normal shielded.  You will guaranteed clash out their 5a/shield counter and free punish for knockdown.  It makes people rage, but more importantly, instills a fear of shielding in the opponent.  

AD/AAD - The normal AD is basically useless, especially when compared to all of the other uses for meter she has (ex dp reversal, fullscreen combo, ex elbow ender).  The AAD though, on the rare occasion that you heat activate to get out of (or restart) pressure, actually has some use to it.  It is pretty godlike at destroying any sort of jump in games (air unblockable + unshieldable), and it can be used in her AAD BnB (see combo section) for ridiculous damage + okizeme.  Most of the time you should be spending your meter on other things, as mentioned earlier.


The Basics - Combos  [bas03]

Okay, playing as F Miyako you'll quickly learn to love (or hate) the fact that practically everything she does flows into her main BnB.  There are a few exceptions to the rule, but we'll get to that later.  First, the core of her BnB.  The way comboing works with Miyako is to basically wallslam the opponent (usually through comboing into 236b, or BE5c overhead in pressure) and cancelling into b elbow for the ground bounce.  Everything goes into elbow and the followup to elbow can vary depending on your level of execution.  Generally you want to make sure to delay everything as long as possible in the combo (such as the second hit of 623bb and the j.421b cancel).  It will prevent a lot of minor character differences from affecting the combo.  Here's a general combo reference video recorded by Tiggy.

Basic BnB
(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236b j.421b (whiff throw just before landing) [followup*]

Throw > 5b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

Note: When using the throw BnB on wLen, it's surprisingly difficult to connect the 623b.  Just make sure to cancel everything as early as possible to prevent having so much pushback during the combo.  I don't know if anyone else (such as other loli characters) have the same weird difficulty in throw comboing.

Midscreen Variants
(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236a j.bc dj.abc j.623a j.421c

Throw > 5b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236a j.bc dj.abc j.623a j.421c

Note: Since your opponent can (and will) tech your airthrow 100% safely midscreen, it's ALWAYS recommended to end midscreen combos with 421c to knock them down into the corner.  Also note that it's advisable to leave out the first j.a in the air combo to keep them at the right height for 421c to connect fully.

Fullscreen Variants (requires at least 100% meter)
(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623c j.421b (whiff throw) 66 [followup*]

Throw > 5b 5c 6c 623c j.421b (whiff throw) 66 [followup*]

Note: The timing is strict after the elbow.  You must dash immediately on landing and cancel the dash into the 5b/2c relatively early.  I'd recommend this combo over the Midscreen BnB anytime you have meter though, as it does more damage and lets you end with throw for tech punish possibilities.

Max Range Variants
(optional 5b/2b) 2c 6c 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

(optional 5b/2b) 2c 6c 236a 236a j.bc dj.abc j.623a j.421c

(optional 5b/2b) 2c 6c 623c j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

Note: This works equally well from a max range 5b, 2b, or any range 2c poke.  In any other situation though, make use of the other BnBs, as they are much stronger and build more meter.

Note 2: Midscreen notes apply to the second combo.  Fullscreen notes apply to the third combo, except you do NOT have to dash or move at all after the j.421b for the followup 5b/2c to connect.

Overhead Variants
BE5c 421a (whiff throw) [followup*]

BE214b > 5b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

BE214a > 5c (delay) 236a j.abc dj.abc throw

Stomp Variants
22b/c 6c/5b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

22b/c 66 (crossup, controls switch) 5b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

Note: Following a stomp with 6c requires you to have some distance between yourself and the opponent, since the forward movement of it will cause it to crossup whiff if you're too close.  If you're point blank with the stomp you will have to back up and 5b instead.  The 5b is fast enough though, that you can actually dash under their bounce and combo in the opposite direction (as long as you cancel the dash into 5b very quickly).  To prevent accidental double dashing (yay melty command buffer) be sure not to hold the directional input when dashing through.  Tap and release the direction quickly.

Counterhit/Shield Counter Variants
Air counterhit (land) 6c/5b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

Midscreen air counterhit (land) 6c/5b 236a j.bc dj.abc j.623a j.421c

236d 6c/5b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

236d 66 (crossup, controls switch) 5b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

Note: Seem familiar?  Yeah, it's the same shit as the stomp combos.  Stomp notes apply here.  Using 6c or 5b is spacing dependent - step back 5b for extremely close, 6c for moderately spaced, dash 5b for very far falling air counterhits or crossup combo after shield counter.  Watch out for double dashing if you use the crossup combo.

IH Variants (requires MAX)
(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c (IH) 66a 5b 2b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

Throw > 5b 5c 6c (IH) 66a 5b 2b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

Note: You must dash out of the IH cancel immediately and cancel the dash into 5a as soon as possible.  

AAD Variants (requires Blood Heat)
(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) 2c 6c 41236c

(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623c j.421b (whiff throw) 66 2c 6c 41236c

Throw > 5b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b 236b j.421b (whiff throw) 2c 6c 41236c

EMPIRE Combos
(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b (IH) 236c 44 6c 623c j.421b (whiff throw) [followup*]

(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623b(delay)b (IH) 236c (directional crossup) 6c 623c j.421b (whiff throw) 66 [followup*]

(optional 2a/j.b/j.c) 5b 2b 5c 6c 623c j.421b tk.dj.421a (whiff throw) [followup*]

Note: The first and second combo will net you a little more damage than the Basic BnB, and you can chose which corner you want to put them in.  Unfortunately, your meter will run out before the end of the combo, so ending with an EX elbow is not possible.  Watch out for double dashing during the [236c 44 6c] portion of the first combo, and keep in mind that you have to dash and cancel out of the dash as quickly as possible.  The second combo is basically a glorified Fullscreen BnB, but watch the timing on the [236c (directional crossup) 6c] part.

Note 2: The third combo is the infamous double elbow combo.  This must be done close to the corner, and can also be done off of a 623c reversal.

*Followups: The followup to j.421b can vary depending on how much work you want to put in and what you're looking to get out of it, but I find that [2c 6c 236a] is the best balance between execution and damage/meter gain.  To prevent any accidental crossup input, always be sure to take a brief step back before starting the followup.  Note that the airthrow to end any combos can ALWAYS be substituted for [j.623a j.421c] for extra damage and knockdown at the cost of 100% meter (a good tradeoff, if you ask me).

Here's the basic list of followups:
(highest execution, damage, and meter gain)
-2c 236a (airdash) j.a (delay) j.b (land) 236a j.b dj.bc throw
-2c 623b(delay)b 236a j.abc dj.abc throw
-2c 6c 236a j.abc dj.abc throw
-5b 236a j.abc dj.abc throw
-5aa 236a j.abc dj.abc throw
(lowest execution, damage, and meter gain)

Note: Because of Kouma and Warakia's weird bouncing hitbox, it is impossible to hit them with 2c after the elbow bounce.  It is possible to drop the 2c on any of the followups to get them to connect correctly though.

Note 2: If you are in MAX mode during any combo, you can change the air combo at the end of any followup to [j.abc 623a (IH 2nd hit) dj.bc 623a j.421c] for safe life gain.  It is advisable to end with EX elbow in this case because you activate Heat, so you might as well use the meter before it runs out.


In Depth - Pressure and Mixups  [dep01]

F Miyako's pressure and mixup game is centered around these main aspects:
-Frame traps using her many plus frame normals and specials
-Throw mixups
-Gimmicks using her many dangerous, but advantageous specials
-IH mixups

Frame traps in combination with throw mixups are one of F Miyako's most powerful tools.  Catching people with tick into throw a couple times will make them want to mash like crazy, which falls victim to frame traps and staggers.  Something as simple as mixing up 2a tick into throw with 2a tick into 5a can be surprisingly effective.  Add in empty jumps and whiff meaties into throws, and they'll start feeling pretty insecure with blocking.  Use this to your advantage in baiting reversals and mashing.

Here's a list of Miyako's best frame trap moves, and the frame advantage of each:
-5a  +2
-2a  +2
-5b  +0
-2b  +0
-623aa  +5 (depending on your timing of the second hit, it can be either very -f or slightly +f)
-623bb  +7 (depending on your timing of the second hit, it can be either slightly -f or very +f)
-22a  +3 vs crouching opponent (-3 vs standing opponent)
-22b  -1 (if you both a at the first possible recovery frame, you double counterhit)
-22c  +5

Gimmicky stuff that you should use, but just not too often:
421a/b - Startup can be shield/dodge/reversal'd with relative ease, though not many try it for some reason.  Cancel into jump, superjump, or IAD to continue pressure after an elbow.  Cancel into whiff throw to land at a slight disadvantage (around -3f), but note that you can shield cancel the landing recovery to punish mashing.

623aa/bb - Only gimmicky in that the opponent can easily shield/dodge/reversal the second hit on reaction, so it's a guessing game whether to throw out the second kick (for safe pressure) or not (for shield baiting).  It's a dangerous game.  You can throw the second kick late enough that it visibly starts to kick before whiff landing.  If only the second kick manages to hit, you can 5a 236b j.421b for free combo.  If only the second kick hits, and it's a counter hit, you can 6c 236b j.421b into combo instead for more damage.

214b and BE214a/b - All of these are only -2 on block, and they have enough pushback to keep you outside of MOST people's a attacks, so it's relatively safe to throw them out and just hit with the immediate 5b/2b on recovery.  It'll punish jump out attempts and 5a/2a mashing, but loses to shield/dodge/reversal/long range a's.  Also keep in mind that 214b and BE214b can hop over some sweeps (character dependent) so you can hop back in for the punish if you catch them trying to poke out long range with their sweep.

22a/b - A version is only frame advantage when blocked low.  B version can only be blocked low, but has mad startup.  Mix em up to keep em guessing and keep you safe.

22c and j9 - C stomp and j9 (forward jump) have almost the exact same startup, so mix up between the stomp, late j.c, and empty jump into throw to keep em guessing.  The more they have to guess, the more you can keep yourself at an advantage.

Reversal 22c - This shit is SUPER RISKY.  Until you get a really good feel for what you can jump over and what you will DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH against, don't get too confident in using it.  If you feel like tempting fate though, it is able to jump over some dashing low pokes and dashing specials, and most likely will punish for a free combo if you succeed in dodging with it.

Here's some IH tricks to keep the opponent reeling: (Here's an IH reference video recorded by Tiggy.)
j.623a or any air normals can be IH cancelled for some free healing while you're laying down the damage. (see Note 2 in combo followups above)

236a/b (especially b) can be cancelled during any of the active frames (even on whiff) for some really fast high/low/crossup silliness.  It can also be great for re-establishing pressure when you've pushed back out too far with IH 236b, or good for a sort of extra speedy super jump with IH 236a.  The latter is more useful as a TIME TO GTFO maneuver than anything else.

623aa/bb can IH cancel the second kick on block, allowing you to get a high/low mixup.  The only problem is this is much more telegraphed, since you have to throw out the second hit MUCH earlier than you ever would normally in order to have enough time for your j.b/c to come out as you fall to the ground.  You can, however, late IH cancel into IAD j.b/c and just mix that up with the late IH cancel into drop 2b.  It's a little harder on the execution, but also slightly harder to react to.

j.623a's second hit can be IH cancelled on hit/block/whiff, but the timing is strict.  With the rising movement of j.623a, this can potentially be used for silly things like deep j.c j.623a (second hit whiffs) IH falling j.c.  It's not godlike, but it will probably surprise someone the first time they see it.

Triple j.c IH fuzzy guard.  This can be started in one of two ways.  Either throw out the deepest j.c possible, or do an IAD j.bc where both normals hit.  Both starts require strict timing on your part.  The fuzzy guard goes like this: (optional j.b) deep j.c dj.c IH (falling) j.c (land) 2a into BnB.  This is one of the hardest things for a Miyako player to reliably pull off, due to the timing on the whole thing.  If you manage to pull it off though, you're almost guaranteed a free combo, since nobody ever expects a fuzzy from F Miyako.


In Depth - Tech punish vs Okizeme  [dep02]
How you end your BnB can either give you very strong okizeme options or an opportunity to tech punish.  Also off of any random 2c or 22a hit, you can go for a short OTG into tech bait or use the knockdown for okizeme.  In the rare chance that you land an AAD, it will give the most ridiculous okizeme ever.  I'll go over each option individually and throw out some basic ideas of what you can do.

Tech punish from corner airthrow
Ending the BnB by airthrowing yourself into the corner allows you to mindlessly [land > dash 2a] to begin an OTG combo or punish any backward or neutral techs.  Backward tech punish requires a midscreen or fullscreen combo, but a neutral tech causes you to crossup the opponent and punish with your normal corner BnB.  If you see the rare occurance where someone forward techs back into the corner, just cancel your dash into 2b (instead of 2a) on reaction to re-establish corner pressure (or get a max range BnB if you catch them not blocking).  

OTG into tech punish
After a corner airthrow or any random midscreen 2c or 22a, your OTG options are limited.  Since it's a midscreen OTG, you can't really do a long OTG for damage.  Instead, the best option is to use a short OTG to bait a tech and punish.  This requires some guesswork about which direction the opponent will tech (if they tech at all) though.  Your easiest midscreen options for OTG tech punish are:
-2a 66 2b (Punishes neutral and back techs.  Crosses up vs neutral tech.  Safe vs no tech.)
-2a 22b (Punishes neutral and forward techs.  Does not cross up vs neutral tech.  Unsafe vs no tech.)

If you happen to get a knockdown with 22a during corner pressure, you can add on significantly more hits to your OTG string while still leaving yourself free to tech punish.  Your basic corner OTG string will be:
-dash 2aaaaa 5b 5c
This will let you recover in time to punish back/neutral tech with 2a into Basic BnB, punish forward tech with 2c into Max Range BnB, or get okizeme options if they don't tech.  If you feel like it, you can tack on a slightly delayed 22b to the end of the corner OTG string, as it will punish any tech for a free Stomp BnB, but you'll be stuck in its long recovery if they don't tech.  You can also throw in a 623aa (no delay) if you are looking to IH cancel for safe life gain.

OTG non-tech okizeme
If you do are going to OTG and expect them NOT to tech, you can do some fun stuff.  If you OTG with a single 2a, you can crossup off of 22c or a forward jump.  If you OTG with 2aa, your 22c or forward jump will not crossup.  This gives you a lot of options for high/low/throw + which way games.  
-(slight delay) 22c (meaty low)
-(slight delay) 9j.b/c (meaty overhead)
-9j (land) 2a (meaty low)
-9j (land) throw (throw)
-9j.b/c (whiff land) 2a (fake overhead, meaty low)
-9j.b/c (whiff land) throw (fake overhead, throw)
-9j (delay) j.44 j.b/c (delayed overhead, ex shield bait, double crossup with 2a OTG)
-(slight delay) 9j (delay) j.44 j.b/c (delayed overhead, ex shield bait, no double crossup)

All of these will change from crossup to non crossup depending on whether you OTG with 2a or 2aa.  The only downside is if they catch on and back tech 2aa, as it's very difficult to punish a back tech from anything more than one 2a.

Okizeme from untechable knockdown
Any random midscreen 2c or 22a will give you an untechable knockdown.  Even from max range, you can easily get a pseudo-sandoori type mixup by utilizing [dash > neutral jump] to carry you over the opponent.  You can lean the neutral jump back (hold 4 after you neutral jump) to prevent the crossup, or you can air backdash to get a double crossup (her air backdash is slow and very projected though).  Whether you slightly delay the dash into neutral jump or not can also determine whether your air normals will hit meaty or whiff land for high/low/throw mixups.  The options available to you are very similar to those listed in the OTG oki section above.

Ending a BnB with EX elbow also gives you an untechable knockdown in the corner.  You don't have quite as much okizeme time with this, but you're right on top of the opponent, so you still have a number of options.
-dash 2a meaty (beats wakeup dodge/mashing, initiates combo/pressure, loses to shield, can shield cancel to beat some reversals)
-5b meaty (beats wakeup low shield/mashing, initiates combo/pressure, loses to reversal/dodge/high shield)
-2b meaty (beats wakeup high shield/mashing, initiates combo/pressure, loses to reversal/dodge/low shield)
-whiff 5b/2b into throw (beats wakeup shield/dodge/block, loses to reversal/mashing)
-dash IABD j.c (quick overhead, beats wakeup low shield/mashing, initiates combo/pressure, loses to reversal/high shield/dodge)
-9j.c (beats low shield/mashing/most reversals, initiates combo/pressure, loses to high shield/dodge)
-9j.66 j.c (same as 9j.c, except airdash to bait heat/high shield/dodge, but gives a window to dash out)
-9j (land) 2a (same as dash 2a, except sacrificing meaty hit for high/low mixup)
-9j (land) throw (same as whiff into throw)
-22c (fake jumpin for high/low mixup, initiates combo/pressure, loses to mash/shield/dodge/reversal)
-dash Blood Heat activate (beats almost everything, requires MAX, use for life gain and opportunity to tech punish into AAD BnB)

Finally, the AAD is pretty amazing.  It gives the most okizeme time of any move in her arsenal, and you can very easily play crossup games or run any sort of pseudo-sandoori or forward jump mixups you want.  Even if the opponent is fully cornered, after an AAD hit you will be able to crossup (even though it still looks like they're fully in the corner).  The most important aspect of AAD though, is that it shoots up a big cloud of dust for a moment just before they wake up.  You can use this to mask a mixup attempt (giving them less time to see it and react) or even to charge an overhead meaty.  Keep in mind that although you won't have many opportunities to use the AAD and any mixups off of it, that just makes it a stronger tool as your opponent will have a harder time reacting to something they rarely see.


In Depth - Meter Managment  [dep03]

Full Moon is a style that has a strong emphasis on being aware of your meter and manipulating it to your needs due to its unique and very strong moon-specific meter tools.  F Miyako is a character that needs meter for her most important tools.  Thankfully, her BnB builds up a lot of meter, and her pressure game can lead to decently long blockstrings to also help supply the meter that she needs.  Whether you need a reversal or want a strong knockdown to set up corner pressure after a BnB - you'll need to burn some meter.  Saving up meter can also be useful to intimidate your opponent, mix up during pressure, and (most importantly) regain life.  In this section we'll be going over the use/misuse of meter, and the philosophy behind saving it up vs burning it all away.

Let's start off by looking at all her meter use options and the uses for each
236c - This is only useful in limited situations, but is usually overshadowed by other options.  You can use it in EMPIRE COMBOS, but that's pretty much if you just want to be flashy for no real reason.  It's also a reversal.  Though the mook's frame data shows it as having inv frames from 2-21, it reversals through a perfect meaty attack on live testing (both mbaa mooks use outdated arcade frame data).  The only problem with using it as reversal?  It goes clean over crouching opponents, whiffing and leaving you open to a possible punish.  In other words, you're better off not wasting meter on this.

214c - Similar to 236c, this is easily overshadowed by other options in most situations.  It's only real practical use is also as a reversal.  On the good side, it has inv frames from 1-13, is only -3 frames on block (which is just barely safe), and it wallslams for a free BnB (use the BE5c combo) or just gets them away to give you breathing room (and time to charge meter back up).  On the bad side, it has pretty massive startup (7+9 frames), making it pretty unlikely that you'll actually hit anything.  Unfortunately, that one negative is enough to make this move a relatively poor choice for reversal.

623c - This move is F Miyako's strongest reversal.  It has inv frames from 1-9, has a 1+3 frame startup, and leads into the Fullscreen BnB.  The only major downsides as a reversal are its weakness to deep crossups and that it is extremely punishable if crouch blocked.  Use it, but don't abuse it.  As a combo utility, it is very useful in the Fullscreen BnB.  Don't use the aerial version of this move though; for all practical purposes it is useless.

421c - As a combo ender, this is almost essential to her game.  It allows her to get an untechable knockdown and strong corner okizeme, which is unique to this moon style of Miyako.  Outside of j.421c as a combo ender, it's practically useless.  Don't use the ground version ever.  On whiff, this is the most punishable move she has.  

As you can see, the only real purpose for spending meter is for reversal (623c), full screen bnb (623c), or untechable knockdown (j.421c).  The most common (and useful) of these three you'll be using is the EX Elbow for knockdown in combos.  You'll basically want to look for a reason to spend meter any time you have a significant life lead and don't want to go into MAX mode.  Now, let's take a look at your options once you have entered MAX.

MAX mode and the options it opens up
Saving up meter for MAX mode is pretty easy if you end your combos with an airthrow, which still leaves you open to tech punish and non-tech okizeme opportunities.  Once you're in MAX, you have four main options that open up for use.

Safe IH - If you find yourself lower than your opponent in life and actually have a decent amount of red life left, the easiest thing to do in a neutral situation is to IH cancel 214a on whiff.  It's very fast and doesn't change your position much, so use it when you need safe life gain.

IH mixups - These are her strongest (and least gimmicky) mixup options, so don't be afraid to abuse them if you hit MAX while on the offensive.  Be cautious of using it when you have no need for the life gain though, as ending up with 0% after IH mixup is a lot more dangerous than ending up with 100% for just riding out the MAX.

Blood Heat activation - This can be used both as a reversal and as a way to reset pressure while regaining life.  It also opens the door to the fearsome AAD BnB, possible AAD anti-air, or even a Last Arc from ground shield.  Just the threat of these options is oftentimes enough to change momentum in a match, such as making a strong zoning character think twice about throwing out those very shieldable projectiles.  Be weary of using activation as a reversal though, as it's incredibly obvious to anyone paying attention to your meter and extremely easy to bait and punish.  Also, don't even think about wasting your meter on this if you don't actually need the life gain, as the risks far outweigh the rewards.

Circuit Spark - The spark is essential for those instances when you get caught in a life ending combo, but can also be used to reset to neutral when under heavy pressure.  It's very advantageous to just sit on MAX when you are laying down pressure on the opponent.  If they successfully poke or reversal out of your pressure, you can easily spark to reset them back into a disadvantageous position again.  A second advantage to this is that if you don't find yourself needing to spark, then you end up with a nice 100% meter to keep your game strong.  Be careful against seasoned players though, as they'll be ready to bait that early spark as soon as they see you in MAX.  The only relatively surefire way to spark safely is to wait until they go into a special or air combo during the combo string, though you will have usually already taken the brunt of the damage by that point, depending on the character/combo.

Saving meter vs Spending it
Now that you know the advantages of both, which is really the best option?  There are three important things to look at when deciding how to manage your meter - life totals, time on the clock, and the character matchup you are playing against.  The relative skill level of your opponent is important too, but this is assuming they're comparable to your own skill level. 

Life and time - These two go hand in hand.  It is of utmost importance to keep a constant eye on who has the life lead, how much red life you have, and how much time is left in the match.  Use these to your advantage when deciding when you need to save up your meter - such as a last minute IH to take the life lead and win the match via timeup.  If you have the life lead or have been chipped down so much that you have practically no red life, then burning off an IH or BH activation is generally a bad idea, so use your meter instead of letting yourself hit max.  After all, burning a bit of meter and having around 200% is a lot more manageable than coming out of MAX with only 100%.  The ideal goal is to keep yourself within range of hitting max at all times, so when you suddenly get caught by a combo and end up needing the life gain, it's right at your fingertips.

Matchups - This is something important to know, but also the hardest thing to have a comprehensive knowledge of thanks to melty's massive tourney-viable roster.  Some important things to keep track of are which characters are good at zoning you out (BH is useful for nullifying many zoning options), which have very good reversal or escape options (use Ex Elbow okizeme to bait and punish escape options or intimidate with MAX mode's anti-reversal spark), and which characters are good at keeping you in lockdown with their godlike pressure (reversal 623c can beat any non-crossup mixup and you can safely spark on any special used in pressure).

As long as you can stay aware of these things, you can use all of the meter options at your disposal to their maximum potential.  Trust me when I say that strong meter management is often the key to winning rough matches.


Closing Words  [con01]

This is my first time seriously writing a character guide for a fighter, so I hope you've enjoyed it and learned something along the way.  Much thanks to Tiggy, Press, and Shiki for recording videos and helping me test out various things, and a big thanks to all the WC players that take time to help me improve my own understanding of the game.  All of the things noted in the guide are taken from observation and first-hand experience, but feedback on anything I've missed or could improve upon is always appreciated.  I feel that F Miyako is a strong, fun character to play, especially if you can intimidate your opponent enough to respect your gimmicks.  She's also a great character for beginners to build up a good sense of aerial spacing and strengthen their mid-to-high level execution.  Keep on reppin that True Loli Fu and I look forward to seeing you all at tourneys!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 02:43:45 AM by LoliSauce »
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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 02:35:27 AM »
Okay, took me all day of working on and off to finish this shit up, but it's pretty much completely done as far as I can think of right now.

Throw more shit at me to add on if anything comes to mind.  Also feel free to transcribe shit over to the wiki.  Reformat however you need to or whatever, I don't mind.

Btw, through the course of writing this I confirmed my suspicions of 214b and BE214b hopping over super low attacks.  It's the anti-sweep! (kind of)  I checked it against vSion (normal training buddy), Akiha, and Sacchin's sweeps.  It hopped over vSion and Sacchin's sweeps for free punish, but Akiha's beats it clean.  It'd be nice to get a full list of all character+all moon sweeps vs 214b.  It'd be super useful to know just who can actually beat that punch (like Akiha does).
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Offline Shiki

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 11:41:45 PM »
I can test out what goes over sweeps with 214b tomorrow or so and post back.

Also, not making an In-Depth IH Combo set or don't think it's worth it?

Edit: I should probably make a thread like this for H-Miyako now.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 01:09:36 AM »
Oh, I forgot about IH combos.  The only one I see commonly used I make a note of in IH section, but I'll put a combo section up for IH stuff.  What all IH combos are there?  I don't really keep an eye on those, since I use IH for pressure/mixup mostly.
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Offline Bonkler

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 08:13:10 AM »
there's a few IH combos in the japanese miyako wiki:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/miyako_mbaa/pages/31.html


stolen from that wiki:

*  2A>5B>2B>5C>6C>IH>Dash 5A>5B>Rest of BnB

*  Combo ender 623A>IH>Ender

*  stuff>jA>jB>jC>623A>IH>jB>jC>Ender

*  2A>5B>2B>5C>6C>623B>Delay B>236C>236B>

     1)IH>jB>236C>Face the other way (self-crossup) 5B>623B>Delay B>236A>2jA>2jB>Ender

     2)IH>jB>236C>Face the other way (self-crossup) 2A>236A>Dash jA>jB>Land 236A>Aerial

     3)IH>Land>236C>236A>Aerial

« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 03:53:29 PM by Bonkler »

Offline Press

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 09:16:56 AM »
Specials Section:
B stomp is slow, but hits low for a free launch into combo.  It has even better frame advantage on block than a stomp.
Mixups Section:
-22b  -1 (if you both a at the first possible recovery frame, you double counterhit)
Huh?

Maybe put up links to how to do the combos and mixups or w.e?
I know a couple people have put up vids on some including myself =o
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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2010, 11:45:01 AM »
Specials Section:
B stomp is slow, but hits low for a free launch into combo.  It has even better frame advantage on block than a stomp.
Mixups Section:
-22b  -1 (if you both a at the first possible recovery frame, you double counterhit)
Huh?
Yo my bad on that.  For some reason I had the frame advantage backwards, but didn't realize it until pulling numbers.  Thanks for catching it.  It's fixed now.

Maybe put up links to how to do the combos and mixups or w.e?
I know a couple people have put up vids on some including myself =o
The only videos are Tiggy's combo tutorial and your fuzzy video, right?  I'll get on that after work.
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Offline Shiki

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2010, 12:46:30 PM »
Thus is why I need a capture card. :(

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2010, 04:42:06 AM »
Thus is why I need a capture card. :(
Seriously.  The random times when I'm fooling around and find neat shit, it'd be great to just cap it real quick and upload.  =\  

there's a few IH combos in the japanese miyako wiki:
*  2A>5B>2B>5C>6C>623B>Delay B>236C>236B>

     1)IH>jB>236C>Face the other way (self-crossup) 5B>623B>Delay B>236A>2jA>2jB>Ender

     2)IH>jB>236C>Face the other way (self-crossup) 2A>236A>Dash jA>jB>Land 236A>Aerial

     3)IH>Land>236C>236A>Aerial
Is this for a fullscreen combo?  Is it actually worthwhile to do?


Notes for myself:
-Note character specific weirdness (Kouma/Wara specific combos, throw combo weirdness vs wLen, anything else?)
-Note clash properties of 22a/b and ways to abuse them
-Add in IH combo subsection with the other combos
-Add in tech punish subsection under mixup/pressure
-Add in Okizeme options off ex elbow and 22a under mixup/pressure
-Add in OTG combos subsection (I don't actually know any optimum otg strings for midscreen or corner)
-Throw up tiggy tut and press fuzzy vids (maybe link each combo to the place in the video?)
-Cant think of anything else to add yet
-Put this shit up on the wiki eventually
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 06:32:48 PM by LoliSauce »
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Offline Press

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2010, 09:13:05 AM »
I could make vids of each combo listed if you want, but that'll have to wait till like 3 weeks later as I still have finals... =[
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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2010, 02:12:40 PM »


there's a few IH combos in the japanese miyako wiki:
*  2A>5B>2B>5C>6C>623B>Delay B>236C>236B>

     1)IH>jB>236C>Face the other way (self-crossup) 5B>623B>Delay B>236A>2jA>2jB>Ender

     2)IH>jB>236C>Face the other way (self-crossup) 2A>236A>Dash jA>jB>Land 236A>Aerial

     3)IH>Land>236C>236A>Aerial
Is this for a fullscreen combo?  Is it actually worthwhile to do?


Reading the description in the wiki, it describes the combo as a "time waster". So, probably not worthwhile at all. One of those, "just because I can" combos. I think it might go from one corner to the next though, I'll go try it out later.

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2010, 03:45:25 PM »
Doesn't F-Miyako have some bodyslam or something? Or am I thinking of the wrong groove?  :psyduck:
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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2010, 04:55:31 PM »
Doesn't F-Miyako have some bodyslam or something? Or am I thinking of the wrong groove?  :psyduck:

Do you mean Miyako's legendary loli elbows? Or loli elbow drop, more specifically.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2010, 04:59:58 PM »
I could make vids of each combo listed if you want, but that'll have to wait till like 3 weeks later as I still have finals... =[
That would be super awesome.

Reading the description in the wiki, it describes the combo as a "time waster". So, probably not worthwhile at all. One of those, "just because I can" combos. I think it might go from one corner to the next though, I'll go try it out later.
What do you guys all think, should I include the "time waster" IH combo?


Okay, I added in almost everything from my to-do list.  This includes:
-Added a note in Specials > 22x on clash properties and how to abuse them.
-Added a note in Combos > Basic BnB on throw combo weirdness with wLen.
-Added in new combos to Combos > Max Range Variants for a version of the midscreen and full screen combo.
-Added in IH Variant subsection to Combos.  Put in the ground string IH repeat version of basic bnb and throw bnb.  Also added in two other slightly impractical double meter use combos.  They're more practical as IH combos because you can afford to burn double meter in that instance, and they do give better damage than her normal BnB by around +300 or so.
-Added two notes in Combos > Followups.  First one about Kouma/Wara specific followups.  Second one about IH cancelling the air combo ender.
-Added new section at the end: Tech Punish vs Okizeme.  Covers ending bnb with throw or ex elbow, OTG options midscreen, oki options after unteched OTG or ex elbow.  

I still need to cover corner OTG combos and tech punishes, in the event of a 22a knockdown during corner pressure.  The only problem is I'm unsure of what the optimum corner OTG options are, since the opportunity to see them (or make use of them) is rare.  

I've been using:
22a > dash 2aaaaa 5bc into
-Punish back/neutral tech on reaction with 2a into basic bnb.  Punish forward tech on reaction with 2c into max range bnb.  Small oki if no tech.
-Slightly delayed 22b, which punishes all techs for free with stomp combo, but loses to no tech.
-623aa for IH cancel, I guess.

Dunno if there's anything better, but if so then let me know.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 10:13:55 PM by LoliSauce »
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Offline Tiggy

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2010, 10:31:34 PM »
Very nice job on the first post LoliSauce  :)

Shameless plug

Here's the links for my vids if you want to use them:

Combo vid/reference tool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RHRqJo4HQE

IH uses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1hwUc__ew4
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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2010, 10:54:25 PM »
Thanks Tiggy.  I'll be sure to add them in.  Now that I realized more IH potential, I may need more recorded for that though.

Enjoy +heat for your videos, since I just realized I never gave you any before.
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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2010, 10:59:17 PM »
What do you guys all think, should I include the "time waster" IH combo?

I can't even pull it off to be honest, the timing for even the easiest version (3: IH the 236B right as it hits, land, 236C really fast, 236A into stuff) is pretty tight and I'm going to guess the damage is probably not even as good as standard BnB.

Then again, my execution is not the best (I can't even do the 2C 623BB relaunch) so... yeah.


On the ground string IH repeat, it's not hard, but since gravity increases with the additional hits, it quickens up the timing for the rest of the BnB.


Also, on the topic of combo weirdness, Nero and Nanaya seem to be really easy to cross yourself up. So the j421B timing either has to be really delayed or a small adjustment step before the 2C (or 5B or whatever) needs to be made.
The Japanese wiki also makes a note in that the 2C 623BB relaunch doesn't work on Ciel (the 2C hits, but not 623BB). I haven't confirmed since I can't do it anyway.


Btw, this is all great stuff you're putting up LoliSauce, I've learned quite a bit of stuff about my favorite loli character.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2010, 11:15:20 PM »
I don't think I'll bother with the time waster.  I've put up something similar anyway.

Mm, I can't remember if it's 2c 623bb or straight up 623bb for the relaunch now.  The JP wiki confirms that it's 2c 623bb, just character specific?

And thanks for the praise man.  I just hope I'm doing her justice.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 11:38:58 PM by LoliSauce »
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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2010, 11:27:43 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's 2c 623bb, but I do remember watching some vids where kou will use only 623BB instead of the full 2C 623BB to relaunch. Maybe it's spacing-dependent? Well, either way, wiki just mentions that Kouma and Warakia will cause 2C to whiff and that Ciel will cause the 623B to whiff.

...either way, it's a good reason to just use 2C 6C 236A amirite?

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2010, 11:39:52 PM »
Seriously.  It's so much easier and gives basically the same damage/meter gain.

As for your note on combo weirdness, I ALWAYS take a small step back after the elbow (guess I should note that?), since whether you crossup or not depends both on distance from the corner and when you cancel into the elbow.  The only one of the relaunches that doesn't have enough time to step back is if you're trying to use straight 6c relaunch against Kouma/Wara. 

You guys think I should put up 623c > double elbow combos, or should I not bother since they're purely for looking cool?
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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2010, 11:57:03 PM »
Lol, I'm lazy and only step back if I know I have to. Maybe my execution percentage would go up if I started stepping back every time?
Oh, I forgot to mention that that whole thing with Nero and Nanaya only applies if you start off pretty close to the corner.

About the double elbow combos... you get THREE whole loli elbows (with ender) in one combo. That's worth any extra amount of effort. Although I have trouble doing it anywhere except right in the corner since the 2nd elbow seems to crossup and head in the wrong direction... is that just how it is?

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2010, 12:08:31 AM »
I would recommend always stepping back, since really you just basically have to press back briefly and you're perfectly timed to hit with 2c.

Yeah, double elbow is kind of weird.  I think the crossup second elbow happens depending on the height of the person getting hit by 623c.  If you combo your normal ground string into 623c (as in, the enemy is still grounded when 623c hits), you won't get the crossup elbow.  If you catch someone in the air with 623c, the height difference causes you to hit them with the first elbow much later (meaning you've moved forward further in the elbow's falling trajectory), causing you to get the weird crossup elbow occurance.  

You can see the difference clearly when using the single elbow combo off of a reversal 623c.  If you reversal a standing attack, you have to whiff throw > dash 2c.  If you reversal a jump in, you don't have to dash to catch the 2c.  At most you just step forward a little.

Edit:
Btw, I just realized a way to make a 623c combo slightly better.  You're only using one bounce/slam if you 623c into elbow, hence why you can double elbow combo for shits and giggles.  But you could also, if you time it low enough, relaunch with 5c 6c 236a instead of 2c 6c 236a for a little extra damage.  Or if you want another style-over-substance combo like double elbow, take a lesson from C Miyako and do 5c BE214b 5b 236a for the same results.

Maybe I should make a "Pointlessly Flashy Combos" section for shit like this.  I could even put in the double 623c fullscreen combo!  lol
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 12:48:33 AM by LoliSauce »
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Offline Press

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2010, 06:31:39 AM »
You guys think I should put up 623c > double elbow combos, or should I not bother since they're purely for looking cool?

I don't see why not =]
I also just happen to have a vid of that when I was messing around with HD on Youtube the other day...
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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2010, 10:39:17 PM »
From the weekend before last (when socal and vegas drove down to the az ranbat), Prinny managed to record some footage of me playing against Jaxx, which is notable because I landed the AAD combo in actual play (I nailed Choco with it earlier that day too).  Whenever Paine gets around to uploading it, I'll probably link that part in here.

Also, other than the video reference and the excessive combos, I think I'm pretty much done with this.  Is there any way I could convince someone to put this up on the wiki for me?  =DDDDDDDDD
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 10:41:03 PM by LoliSauce »
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Offline Kiiroe

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Re: F Miyako
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2010, 11:52:53 PM »
Landed double elbow combo on my friend today

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