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Author Topic: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)  (Read 16871 times)

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Offline Id_asz

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Basic stuff for now, I'll test more things as I have more time on the arcade machine.

Everything below has been corrected/updated for 1.07.

Normals:
5A: Low heel. Ciel does a knife kick near her opponent's ankles. Hits LOW. Air UN-blockable. 350 dmg [.72 proration]

2A: Low knife jab. Purple effect doesn't hit. Hits LOW. Same animation as Crescent's 2A. Air UN-blockable. 300 dmg [.72 proration]

j.A: Air Knife jab, hits in the middle of her sprite's box. Purple effect does not hit. Is not jump cancelable. Same animation as Crescent's j.A. Air blockable. 300 dmg [.?? proration]

5B: Knife swipe. Leaves a crescent slash similar to Ryougi's. Same animation as Crescent's 5B. Air UN-blockable. 600 dmg [.80 proration]

6B: Lunging kick. Moves PCiel forward a bit. Wallslams on hit. Air UN-blockable. 500 dmg [.66 proration]

2B: Knife swiping kind of low. Even though it's a 2 attack, it hits MID. Air UN-blockable. 700 dmg [.80 proration]

j.B: Downwards kick. Groundslams on air hit. Your main reset tool. Air blockable. 500 dmg [.90 proration]

5C: Slashes forward with her gun. Has incredible range. Same animation as Crescent's 5C. Air UN-blockable. 1000 dmg [.70 proration]

4C: Slashes upward. Useful tool for moving your opponent's body upwards mid-combo. Same animation as Crescent's 4C. Air UN-blockable. 800 dmg [.70 proration]

2C: Extended low kick with good range. This is often what you want to use when your opponent is landing from a Counter Hit. This move has R proration, which means that it cumulates proration with the previous attack, so use sparingly; it will lower your damage over all if used too much. Same animation as Crescent's 3C. This hits LOW. Air UN-blockable. 800 dmg [.57R proration]

3C: Kick flip upwards. Your key launcher normal. Air UN-blockable. 1000 dmg [.57 proration]

j.C: Kicks kind of high in the air, leaving a swiping trail. This is the normal you want to use for cross-ups. Same animation as Crescent's j.C. Air blockable. 1000 dmg [.90 proration]

Note: No Blowback Edges on ANY normals!

Target Combo:
A, 6A, 6A: Last hit DOES NOT HIT HIGH even though it looks like it does. Last hit cannot be BE'd, either, even though it looks like it should. Whole combo is air UN-blockable. 1302 dmg [.50 proration total]

Note: You cannot combo a normal into another normal in the air. No j.BC, dj.BC  :emo:

Specials:

236 series:
236A: Rushes forward and does a launching flip kick. Blowback Edge on the flip kick delays it, launches higher, and hits HIGH. Both hits are air UN-blockable. 1575dmg (2 hits). BE (2nd hit only) = 1100 dmg
236B: Rushes forward, won't attack if you don't input something while rushing... There's some clashing near the beginning of this move, so it can be a useful tool for rushing in on your opponent while they're zoning.
...A: Shoots a gun blast forwards. Air UN-blockable. 1200 dmg
...B: Shoots a gun blast upwards (~45° up). Air UN-blockable. 1500 dmg
...C: Does the flip kick from 236A. Air UN-blockable. 700 dmg
236C (EX): Rushes forward, the rush part hits the opponent. Ends with a forward gun blast. This is her highest damaging EX, and it's air-unblockable. If your opponent is landing or just jumping, feel free to throw this out. Air UN-blockable. 3106dmg (11 hits).
Note: 236 series is virtually the same as C-Moon.

623 Series:
623A: Dragon Punch style move. Air blockable. 1399dmg (3 hits).
...A/B/C: Will kick downwards. Must be done while in the middle of the move, won't work after the animation is over. There is no difference in angle/hits/damage between the A/B/C versions of the follow-up. There is no difference in damage between the ground series (623) and the air series (j.236) Air blockable. 350 [.70] (per hit, 6 hits total)
623B: Dragon Punch style move. Goes all the way to the top of the screen! You will land before your opponent will. You cannot follow this move up like you can with 623A. If you whiff, you will recover just after you reach the top of the screen, making it totally safe on whiff (but not on block). Great for air okizeme after combos. If done against an opponent in the corner, you and your opponent will switch sides when you land, making you the one in the corner. Air blockable. 2330dmg (7 hits).
623C (EX): An EX version of the 623B move. You can recover on whiff like 623B. Air UN-blockable. 2503dmg (8 hits).
Note: 623 series is virtually the same as C-Moon.

j.236 Series:
j.236A: Air version of 623A. Yes, j.236A, not j.623A. TKable. Air blockable. 925dmg (2 hits).
...A/B/C: The follow-up works the same as the ground version. There is no difference in angle/hits/damage between the A/B/C versions of the follow-up. There is no difference in damage between the ground series (623) and the air series (j.236) Air blockable. 350 [.70] (per hit, 6 hits total)
j.236B: Air version of 623B. Doesn't go up quite as high. Like 623B, there's no follow-up, but you land before your opponent. TKable. Air blockable. 2061dmg (6 hits).
j.236C (EX): An EX version of j.236B. Air blockable. 2674dmg (11 hits).
Note: j.236 series is virtually the same as C-Moon.

214 Series:
214A: Vertical Laser. Send out a vertical laser in front of PCiel, pretty close. Blowback Edge makes it move forward (Think Magneto's Super in MvC2). The laser doesn't quite reach the top of the screen, so if you're up that high, it won't hit. If an air opponent gets hit by one of her vert. lasers, they'll get slammed down to the ground really quickly. Air blockable. 1434dmg (10 hits) BE=1625dmg (12 hits).
214B: Vertical laser. Sends out a vertical laser about 60% of the screen away from PCiel. Blowback Edge makes it move back and forth within the area. BE version really helps you get in on them while they're blocking at a distance. If an air opponent gets hit by one of her vert. lasers, they'll get slammed down to the ground really quickly. Air blockable. 1514dmg (10 hits) BE=1859dmg (15 hits).
214C (EX): Horizontal Laser. This is similar to C-PCiel's EX laser. It will shoot forward at a really good distance. Air blockable. 2151dmg (10 hits).

j.214 Series:
j.214A: 214A in the air. Floats forward in the air a bit. Can be TK'd. Air blockable. 1434dmg (10 hits)  BE=1625dmg (12 hits)
j.214B: 214B in the air. Floats forward in the air a bit. Vertical laser appears about 40% of the screen away, as opposed to the ground version which appears 60% away. Can be TK'd. Air blockable. 1537dmg (11 hits) BE=1882dmg (15 hits).
j.214C (EX): The same as 214C on the ground. Air blockable. 2151dmg (10 hits).

Arc Drive:
41236C: Will rush at opponent using the same motion as 236C. It will freeze your position on the screen, so it won't necessarily push them into the corner. Air UN-blockable. 3571 (18 hits).

Damage tested against Aoko during her first 75% of health (She has a 1.0 defense rating during her first quarter).

H-PCiel's Defense Ratings (Same as C-Moon):
100%: 0.95; 75%: 0.95; 50%: 0.95; 25%: 1.00
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 07:24:51 AM by Id_asz »
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 01:18:31 AM »
So, the main combo I've been working on is:

Mid-screen combo:
(j.C) > 2A > 5B > 5C > 2C > 3C > j.B > 2C > 5C > 3C > 623B

-The j.C at the beginning is optional. j.C itself does great damage and has great proration scaling, so use it to start off whatever you can.
- 2A > 5B > 5C > 2C is a very basic BnB style combo. You could delete or mix up part of this and it wouldn't really matter.
- The bolded part 3C > j.B > 2C > 5C, is the crux of the combo. This is the part you're going to need to practice a lot. After launching with 3C, jump cancel (but not super jump cancel) and hit them with j.B. If the timing on this part isn't correct then the rest of your combo won't work and you won't get a ground reset. You have to delay your j.B in the air just a little bit, try and hit your opponent just a they reach the top of their launch. I think the window of when you have to hit them is about 3-4 frames. If you don't get them right in that sweet spot, then the ground reset won't work. When you land, hit 2C immediately, and if everything worked properly, it'll lift them up to be hit by your 5C.
- 3C > 623B is just a finisher. If you can do the bolded part above, then everything else is cake. Finishing off a combo with 623B is always a good thing; it lets you play an air okizeme game. If you can tell exactly when your opponent techs, you can 623B them again when they're vulnerable. If your opponent waits to tech on the ground, 623B can hit them on the ground. If you're unsure when your opponent is going to tech, you can always 623C them, which is air unblockable. And, if you're out of all those options, you can throw lightning at them when they're trying to get away! If you finish this in a corner with 623B, your opponent won't be in the corner anymore and you'll have to change your directional inputs. This isn't all that obvious because you can't see sides very well at this point.
- Remember, this is a mid-screen combo, but it WILL work in the corner. There's combos that are better for the corner, but I'm still working them out.
- I don't know exactly how much damage this combo does yet. I've mostly done it in bits and pieces, and definitely have not done it on a character with 1.0 defense during their first 25% of health. That being said, I think it will do about 4500 dmg.
- Changes for short characters (i.e. Len and Miyako). Idk yet, I'll fill this in later.
- Changes for really short characters (Necoooooo!). Idk yet, I'll fill this in later.

Quote from: Exciel
Combo 1: 2A 2B 5B 2C 5C 6B 236[A] 2C 5C 6B 236[A] 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A

Can be done anywhere midscreen to corner but does not work on some characters with awkward hitboxes like Ryougi because the first 6B will whiff. After the first 236[A], you want to hit 2C as late as possible to make your life easier. Otherwise you'll need to delay between 2C and 5C a bit to get 6B to hit. Instead of 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A use 2C 4C 3C 214A as an ender to get a knockdown with your opponent slightly away from the corner allowing you to cross up for wake up.

Combo 2: 2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 3C jc j.B land 5B 2C 5C 6B 236[A] 2C 3C 236B~B 4IAD BEj.214B

This combo can be done anywhere on screen and has to be done on characters where the combo 1 doesn't work on. Might have to do some adjusting based on character's hitboxes and there's an ideal timing for when to hit j.B and the following 5B. Sometimes 5B 2C will whiff if all timing requirements aren't aligned. You can omit that 5B if you wish to however. The ender is just an alternative ender if you want some decent lightning oki.

More to come!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 11:40:57 PM by Id_asz »
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Offline Komidol

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Re: H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 06:36:35 AM »
http://boonce.org/up/2408_IMG00250-20110722-1937.jpg FUCK THIS FUCKING CUNT II YO IF UFCKUFNCKING HATE HER FUCKING NEUTRAL BITCH 12 COCK SUCKING AT ONCE FACE FUCKING 236A GODDAMN FUCKING UDONGE GODDAMN THUNDER IT FUCKING DP DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU BAIT IT MOTHER FUCKING SON OF A BITCHASS 立ち回り DP ALL FUCKING DAY GODDAMNIT RRGFRARRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA  :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk:
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 01:49:46 PM by Komidol »
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Offline Exciel

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Re: H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 12:52:03 PM »
PCiel winning both at once?  クソゲ :toot:

Offline Komidol

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Re: H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 01:46:27 PM »
PCiel winning both at once?  クソゲ :toot:

That was during Mikado, in tournament, at that.  Don't delete that post though, mods.  It has valuable information about the character.  Seriously. 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 01:56:53 PM by Komidol »
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2011, 12:28:13 AM »
Stuff I know about that was changed between 1.05 -> 1.07 (Now that I finally got my hands on it!)

-5BB target combo deleted.
-Damage for 214A, and j.214A (especially BEs) reduced.
-Recover high in the air after a 623B whiff (new?)

Also, I updated the first post with some things. Check it out. More to come for other Moon Styles.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 12:32:50 AM by Id_asz »
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 03:36:51 PM »
Updated which moves are air blockable/unblockable.

I'm working on normal move dmg, there's just a lot of calculations to do.
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2011, 12:54:27 PM »
Did a large update on the first post:

-Restructured the layout.
-Added damage and prorations for normal attacks.
-Added damage and proration for 236A...A/B/C kicks.
-Added new and CORRECT defense ratings.

I still need to add:
Combos
Prorations for j.A, j.B, j.C.
Need to add throws.
Shield and Shield Bunker info.

Also, the damage and prorations listed on the normals aren't 100% correct. There's some rounding errors I need to work out. The damages listed are really close to the actual numbers, so for all practical purposes it's fine.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 11:05:18 PM by Id_asz »
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Offline Tonberry

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2011, 02:46:00 PM »
Thanks for all the info.  There's a minor formatting error in j214 series though..
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2011, 10:32:08 PM »
Thanks for all the info.  There's a minor formatting error in j214 series though..

tyvm, got it.
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Offline Curbeh

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 05:33:59 AM »
Good for working on the wiki
Note though, you don't need to add damage or prorate or move descriptions. It would go into any frame data tables for statistics later.
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 07:58:22 AM »
I'm working on combo lists next. Most of that info I just wanted to know for myself, and figured I'd post it up if I had it.
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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2011, 11:44:11 AM »
correction

Note though, you don't need to add damage or prorate FOR move descriptions.

Adding all your stuff besides damage and etc is fine, welcome rather.
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 07:37:24 AM »
Added her first combo on the second post with some detailed descriptions about it! 

I'm actually doing work, woot! :toot:

I'll work on C-PCiel stuff when I'm pretty satisfied about the state of the info in this thread, but H-PCiel is the version I'm using, so I really want to focus on that.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 07:49:27 AM by Id_asz »
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Offline Exciel

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 03:27:11 PM »
Sweet work so far. I like this moonstyle the best of the three so I'll be coming back here frequently. Here are some trial BnBs to kick it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_pIO9WuHtI

Combo 1: 2A 2B 5B 2C 5C 6B 236[A] 2C 5C 6B 236[A] 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A

Can be done anywhere midscreen to corner but does not work on some characters with awkward hitboxes like Ryougi because the first 6B will whiff. After the first 236[A], you want to hit 2C as late as possible to make your life easier. Otherwise you'll need to delay between 2C and 5C a bit to get 6B to hit. Instead of 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A use 2C 4C 3C 214A as an ender to get a knockdown with your opponent slightly away from the corner allowing you to cross up for wake up.

Combo 2: 2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 3C jc j.B land 5B 2C 5C 6B 236[A] 2C 3C 236B~B 4IAD BEj.214B

This combo can be done anywhere on screen and has to be done on characters where the combo 1 doesn't work on. Might have to do some adjusting based on character's hitboxes and there's an ideal timing for when to hit j.B and the following 5B. Sometimes 5B 2C will whiff if all timing requirements aren't aligned. You can omit that 5B if you wish to however. The ender is just an alternative ender if you want some decent lightning oki.

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2012, 04:03:03 PM »
Here are some combos I've been using.

2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 3C j.B land 5B 6B 236[A] 2C 5C 3C 214A

Probably her easiest screen carry combo for about 90% screen carry. Use 2C delay 5C 6B for Ryougi (from what I have tested). If you wanted to make space in the corner for crossups then after 236[A] you do 2C 3C 2A/5A whiff 3C 214A instead. You get all the safe jump options off either ender.

2A 5B 2B 5C 236B~C 2C 3C j.B land 5B 6B 236[A] 2C 5C 3C 214A

Extended version of the above combo for fullscreen carry. OTG relaunch and ender are the same so adjust to what you need and what you want.

2A 5B 2B 5C 2C 3C j.C j.236A~A land 236B~B

This can be used for a fullscreen carry too but you dont get the same oki options as the above. Still does around the 4.2-4.5k area. You can go for dash 214[A] to keep them in place.

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 01:28:01 AM »
It's not the best combo, and its pretty much the same BnB posted by id_asz, but I figure its worth posting. I've been using pretty much this 5A 5B 2B 5C 2C 3C j.B 2C 6B 5C 3C 214a TK214(B) or 214[A]
You can use either lightning for the ender midscreen, however in the corner you should do TK214[A] instead of 214[A] to get that extra space from the jump back so more hits will connect (as well as it makes it easier to time since you don't need to delay it). Feel free to dismiss this as I don't play this character.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 01:41:01 AM by Achtzehn »
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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2012, 08:42:10 PM »
id_asz's combo seems to be about an even 4k on most characters. i've been using 5b2b5c (6b mid screen) 2c3c j.b 2c5c6b 236[a] 2c5c3c 214a. which adds about 1000 damage.
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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 10:58:20 PM »
i´ve been trying and come up with combos over 5k, most ideas were from a match in 1.07 here they are:

JC 5A 5B 5C 2C 3C JB 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A : 5440dmg  44.8%bar
                                                                   4729dmg (w/o JC)

JC 5A 5B 5C 6B 2C 3C JB 5B 6B 236(A) 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A 5997dmg 61%bar
                                                                                           5329dmg (w/o JC)

BnB
JC 5A 5B 5C 2C 3C JB 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A 5446dmg

JC 5A 5B 5C 236B-C 2C 3C JB 2C 5C 4C 3C 214A 5024dmg

Well is hard to get use to each 2c 5c 4c 3c in the end but is worth it.

im thinking in posting combos for aereal counters or throws dont know if it will be useful

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 04:27:51 AM »
The combo that Tempered listed is probably the best for H overall currently. Though instead of using 2c 5c 3c 214a ender, I prefer to use walk back 2c 5b 4c 3c 214a in the corner and 2c 3c 5a whiff 3c 214a after fullscreen. Instead of opting for max damage, those enders can leave space in the corner against most characters. This makes it so you can jump into the corner for crossups so you get more chances of hitting the opponent on wakeup and scoring another 4-5k damage combo.

Offline c-nero 5[c]

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2012, 01:32:51 PM »
So what combo do you actually do starting in the corner? 2c 5c 6b 236[A] doesnt work at all. I've just been doing whatever into j.b 2c 5c 4c 3c 214a, but that never pulls them out of the corner so you cant run corner crossup shit on them.
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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2012, 10:36:57 PM »
2c 3c j.b land 2c 5c 6b 236[a] should work on everyone except necos. You gotta delay the j.b and the 5c in the otg.

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2012, 11:33:44 PM »
I figured it out. I forgot the pickup after j.B counted as a wallslam. and since I was using 2b 5c 6b 2c 3c starter, the 236[A] would be a third wallslam and end the combo.
<Irysa> arcana heart 3 just red ringed my 360 im not even joking
<Sabator> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
<Sabator> BBCS RED RINGED MINE
<Sabator> FUCKING ANIME GAMES MAN

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2012, 12:13:53 PM »
I fucking hate comboing Ryougi with this bitch. The j.b 5b 2c combo listed earlier is annoying as fuck and randomly doesn't work half the time. Clearly, we need new technology.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjohbxbg3MI
<Irysa> arcana heart 3 just red ringed my 360 im not even joking
<Sabator> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
<Sabator> BBCS RED RINGED MINE
<Sabator> FUCKING ANIME GAMES MAN

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Re: v1.07 H-Moon - Powerd Ciel Discussion (Ciel, God of Thunder!)
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2012, 09:57:03 AM »
for the characters 2C 5C 6B is hard to time on initially in the launcher, don't worry about delaying the 5C much and mostly focus on delaying the 6B

personally i don't worry about the j.B 5B 2C combo since most the time 5B 6B works fine for corner carry, and for the certain starters where extra carry is needed, the 2C 5A(wiff) 6AA 6B combo adds the extra corner carry needed though it does lower dmg a bit