Messages

251

Hisui / Re: Hisui thread! VERSION Bee, TOO!

« on: September 06, 2007, 12:14:56 PM »

From the act cadenza perfect guide:

Startup Frames for Hisui:

5A:4 Frames
2A:4 Frames
j.A:5 frames
5B:7 Frames
2B:7 Frames
j.B:6 Frames
j.BB(second hit):6 Frames
5C:13 Frames
5C(charged):15 Frames
2C:14 Frames
j.C:9 Frames
j.C(Charged):27 Frames
4B:40 Frames
6B:15 Frames
6C:16 Frames
6CC(Second Hit):14 Frames
6CC 236C(Third Hit):13 Frames
j.2C:12 Frames
Airthrow:1 Frame
Ground Throw:3 Frames
Shield Bunker:1 Frame

Specials:
236A:9 Frames
236B:13 Frames
236(A or B) 236A(Last Hit):12 Frames
236(A or B) 236B(Last Hit):13 Frames
236C:15 Frames
j.236A:9 Frames
j.236B:13 Frames
j.236C:13 Frames

214A/B/C(startup variable on projectile, frames not listed)

623A:12 Frames
623B:11 Frames
623C:2 Frames

22A:96 Frames
22B:98 Frames
22C:(Does not Deal Damage)

Arc Drive:Invulnerable startup when uncharged, startup frames during charge are based on charge length.

Another Arc Drive:Startup is invulnerable.

Last Arc:No startup frames.

252

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?

« on: August 31, 2007, 04:32:51 PM »

Because you can't tech out of an air throw, and you land before your opponent can recover if you end with an air throw, allowing you the most options on wakeup and the most ability to corner your opponent and keep them cornered.  Though if a character has another untechable air combo ender then you can end with those for other uses depending on the situation(Nero landing after a j.C in order to use a deer summon instead of using an airthrow at the end of a combo, for example, in order to setup a pressure game in advance).

253

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Reverse Beat: Whiff Canceling

« on: August 31, 2007, 04:29:09 PM »

Jab cancel:Canceling a slow recovery move's recovery frames, by canceling into a jab(5A/2A).  Since the point is to cancel the recovery frames to make an attack safe, and not necessarily to reset the combo completely, the jab doesn't have to whiff.  So, for example, 2C 2A with nanaya, which lets you block immediately after the 2A since it recovers fast.  If you just did 2C someone could try to punish the 2C during it's recovery frames, but since you jab canceled with 2A, you can block their punish and punish back.

While the jab doesn't have to whiff, it can.  This is fine.

Yes, I realize that.  My point was that it can whiff, or not whiff, and whether it does or not doesnt change it being a jab cancel.

Whiff cancel:Canceling into a fast recovery move(usually 5A) that does NOT hit your opponent, in order to reset the attacks you can use(since you can only use each attack once per combo.  So, say, nanaya 2C, whiff 5A, 2C again, but if the 5A did NOT whiff, you couldnt use the second 2C since you already did a 2C in that combo.)

Many things wrong.  Firstly, the name whiff cancel implies the canceling of a whiff, which is not happening.  Second, you don't need to whiff a move to reset a chain.  You could do 2c5a, 2c for 3 hits, assuming there is enough hit stun and positioning is good(which it isn't in this example, but there are some out there, I believe Len has one).  Third, even if the 5a whiffs, it is still cancelable and can continue the chain.

The Leilei example in Chibi's link is the exact same thing as a Jab cancel...except it wasn't with a jab.  Same idea, same strategy, just a different button.

My point was generally the reason someone would whiff cancel would be either to reset the chain(since it recovers the fastest it allows the shortest gap possible between chains), or, also(sorry I forgot to mention this other reason), to reset proration(also resetting the chain, I suppose.)

Mostly I was just pointing out that whiff cancels mean whiffing an attack, and jab cancels mean canceling with a jab, and that reverse beats are a mechanic and not a move.  Since people in this thread seem to be often thinking that all 3 of the above are exactly the same thing(which they are most certainly not, though a whiff cancel is generally both a jab cancel and a reverse beat, the opposite is not also necessarily true).

254

Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Reverse Beat: Whiff Canceling

« on: August 31, 2007, 08:40:46 AM »

Actually you're canceling via a whiff, therefore the cancel, is a whiff cancel.  Because the whole point of the cancel is the whiff(and if you didn't whiff, it wouldn't be a whiff cancel anymore.  See where I'm going with this?).

Anyways, to summarize:

Whiff cancel:Canceling into a fast recovery move(usually 5A) that does NOT hit your opponent, in order to reset the attacks you can use(since you can only use each attack once per combo.  So, say, nanaya 2C, whiff 5A, 2C again, but if the 5A did NOT whiff, you couldnt use the second 2C since you already did a 2C in that combo.)

Jab cancel:Canceling a slow recovery move's recovery frames, by canceling into a jab(5A/2A).  Since the point is to cancel the recovery frames to make an attack safe, and not necessarily to reset the combo completely, the jab doesn't have to whiff.  So, for example, 2C 2A with nanaya, which lets you block immediately after the 2A since it recovers fast.  If you just did 2C someone could try to punish the 2C during it's recovery frames, but since you jab canceled with 2A, you can block their punish and punish back.

Reverse Beat:Going backwards in order of attacks in terms of A, B, C.  For example, canceling 5C into 5B or 5A are both reverse beats.  Canceling 5B into 5A is a reverse beat, canceling 5B into 5C is not.  This does not apply to specials(canceling 5C into 236B or 236A would NOT cause a reverse beat).  Blocked attacks, and attacks that would hit your opponent, are eligible for reverse beats.  That includes attacks that WOULD have hit your opponent, but were canceled before they could(for example, j.C canceled into j.A, but you land before the j.A finishes coming out, making the j.A not hit your opponent.  But since it would have, you still get a reverse beat penalty).

255

Hisui / Re: Hisui! The maid who makes exploding sammiches.

« on: August 30, 2007, 01:32:24 PM »

To put things simply:More damage>less damage.  Airstring into airthrow=more damage.  No air string into j.BB=less damage.  If you tech punish, you get more damage.  If you dont tech punish but you could've, you get less damage.  More damage, they die faster, you win.

How the hell is that so hard to get?

256

Hisui / Re: Hisui! The maid who makes exploding sammiches.

« on: August 30, 2007, 11:14:00 AM »

Hisui has 4 B normals.  4B is watering can(drains circuit), 2B is crouching two handed push, 5B is standing twohanded push, 6B is ladle launcher.

Seems to me the ladle launcher has longer range than 6C as a launcher, might just be imagining things though.

257

Hisui / Re: Hisui! The maid who makes exploding sammiches.

« on: August 30, 2007, 08:19:19 AM »

Yeah in the long run I mostly intended it as either a corner string or something to get a good chunk of damage off a counterhit 5B or 2B/5B meaty.

Edit:One thing to note is if you modify it to 5ABC 2C 6B j.BC jBC Airthrow it can be used from anywhere on the screen without the positioning requirements I mentioned earlier, and it still deals a nice 4200+ damage.

258

Neko Arc Chaos / Re: NAC's BnB

« on: August 30, 2007, 07:54:51 AM »

Misconception:Neco Arc Chaos is actually a guy.  Or, if you want the game description, Gender:.......what.......?

Jokes aside, some random notes I've taken while experimenting with him.(note, all combos tested on nanaya, your damage/ease of connecting may vary)

Note:In every combo containing a j.214B, j.214C may be substituted in for additional damage if you have the circuit.  If a combo is attempted outside of a corner, cancel j.C on the third hit to prevent wallslam knocking them out of range.  Damage is listed as (midscreen damage - corner damage) to save space, midscreen being if you cancel j.C on the third hit, corner if you cancel on the fourth hit and wallslam.

2ABC (jc) j.BC (jc) j.C j.214B: deals 3000 - 3200 damage

BE 5B 2C (jc) j.C (jc) j.C j.214B: deals 3000 - 3200 damage

BE 5C 2C (jc) j.C(4 hits) (jc) j.C j.214B: deals 2600-2800 damage

6C (jc) j.C (jc) j.BC j.214B: 2900-3700 damage(note:cant use j.B in the airstring unless in corner)

Extra stuff:
41236C Arc Drive allows for a relaunch via 2B 2C into an aircombo for a bit of extra damage.

623C will heal the target it hits, rather than do damage.  Also, the Dizzy effect only occurs if the first hit of the attack hits the opponent(even if the rest of the attack doesn't).

Neco Arc Chaos can move both forward and backward while crouching(similar to Len's catwalking). 

Crouch-walking forward will deal(very minor) damage from burning his opponent with his Cigarette, if theyre close enough(good way to halt dashins for throws).  The burn can be comboed off of with 2A, however it adds a huge proration penalty to the combo, so dont expect a lot of damage off of it.

Crouchwalking backward has invulnerability frames, much like other characters' backdashes, however you can cancel attacks out of it.  Gives some options when being pressured in the corner to avoid an attack with it and then counter with a 2A or 2B into a combo, but be careful not to overextend yourself and get knocked out of it(as his 2A is rather slow for a poke and neither his 2A nor 2B have clash frames).

214A/B/C(not-really-clone teleport) is rather pointless for confusing your opponent(as the duplicates are neros, not neco arc chaoses), but 214C is useful for getting out of a corner since its startup and recovery are fairly fast and it places you a long ways away from the corner.  Dont overuse it though since it leaves you open for a moment.

That's all I have for the moment.  If/when netplay for MBAC PC comes out I'll see about getting something more detailed drawn up for those who would like to try playing this character seriously.

259

Hisui / Re: Hisui! The maid who makes exploding sammiches.

« on: August 30, 2007, 07:19:06 AM »

Situational combo(tested on nanaya):

5B 2B 5C 2C 6B j.BC j.BC Airthrow:Deals 4761.  Works from any part of the screen, but cant use a poke or jumpin to hit confirm.

Can use j.C, BE j.C, 5A, or 2A to hitconfirm in the corner, but have to cancel the 5C on the first hit to do it.  using an A as a hitconfirm in the corner makes it deal 4100 damage, using j.C makes it deal 5000, using BE j.C makes it deal 5200.

Rather situational due to the positioning requirement, and the 5C cancel timing is somewhat picky, but the fact that it can deal up to 5200 circuit-free damage is rather nice.