Atlas Academy > Shiki Tohno
1.07 CTohno
Irysa:
Wiki page updated for combos and strategy!
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Melty_Blood/Shiki_Tohno/Crescent_Moon
Changes from console
Walkspeed buff
236c, 214c, j22c, j623c and 623c otg relaunch (236c might have to be otg chained into)
2a - 1f slower recovery (its not neutral anymore)
5c - damage and meter gain down
2c - damage and meter gain down
5bb - damage and meter gain down
jb - smaller horizontal hitbox inside of him (will not crossup anymore ever), increased hitstun (combos into B normals and C normals off a jumpin correctly now)
j[c] - attack hitbox hits slightly higher
214d - damage down, cannot counter hit (universal change I think)
236b - 2f more startup, 2f less active, juggles aerial opponent for a long time, enough to link j.a after it hits an aerial target
236c - 1 frame of invul startup, 1f better recovery, damage down, last hit has a huge hitbox, now launches on the third hit and then hard knockdowns on the fourth (Means you could hit air opponents and still get the hard knockdown), appears to have better overall advantage after the hard knockdown, otg relaunch
214a - prorates to 50%, 2f worse recovery (still safe if spaced most likely), much larger ex cancel window added
214b - much larger ex cancel window added
214c - damage down, increased untechable time after wallslam (not completely sure on this), otg relaunch
623a - 60% proration (from 100% in console)
623b - 60% proration (from 100% in console)
623c - damage down, otg relaunch
22c - can combo after it on nearly everyone now midscreen. only kouma appears to not get hit by a timed 2c. (every moon got this)
j22a - improved hitbox below, small rise before the attack
j22b - 1f improved startup, causes tohno to rise before the attack (it will come out properly after deep jumpins allow for double overhead mixup)
j22c - complete invul startup and beyond (23 frames), larger hitbox, travels faster
j623a/b added an ex cancel (you can now do j623b into j623c for 10 more damage after long combo strings lol. can also do j623 into j22c...not found a use for this yet)
CC changelog thread said 22a had a larger gap before the attack came out but I compared the two in framedisplay and they seemed the same...must be a Ver A change.
Combos
Not much changed. The 214c change makes the 214c 5a5b[b ] combos work at longer ranges outside the corner now. The slight float on j22a seems to make the j[c] j22a combos work further out of the corner.
Obvious scenarios for otg relaunch include mixups like jb/c j22b 214a, 6[b ] (or partial charge 6b) 214a
Can't seem to get into j[c], land 2a combos after otg relaunch 214c. Unsure of what optimum combo after relaunch would be.
More stuff pending.
Irysa:
http://youtu.be/l_DIDf9AwYY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN1AIPKyycY - mirror
Somewhat outdated, refer to wiki page for better organized combos.
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Melty_Blood/Shiki_Tohno/Crescent_Moon
--- Code: ---
Stuff to note - You'll be omitting 2b a lot of the time in these because the range is ass and probably just doing 2a into 5c. Avoid 5bb combos like the plague in the corner.
[b]2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 5b 6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Bog standard basic hitconfirm. Use super double jump with either j29 or pressing and releasing 9 during the j.a. The j.a is not strictly necessary but it stabilises the combo a lot.
[b]2aa 5b 5c 2c 2b(1hit) 6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Useful confirm beacuse dash 2a5b is a common neutral tactic in approaching on the ground safely with Tohno. Could confirm into air combo against a jumping out opponent easily with 6b or 5bb.
[b](near corner) 2aa 2b(1hit) 5b 5c 2c 6b 22a j.abc sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Higher damage extender for the corner with 22a. You need a certain amount of gravity for this combo to work correctly.
[b]2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 5bb j.[c][/b]
Hard knockdown midscreen. Its an o.k option but he doesn't really have many good mixup tools to use after it.
[b]2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 5bb j.[c] j.22a 623bb[/b]
Hard knockdown in the corner. Works slightly furthter out now due tot he j22a buff. Solid option but honestly if you're doing the air combos correctly you should have your opponent scared to do anything on wakeup anyway, so your dashins are free.
[b]2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 5b 6b j.bca sdj.bc j.623c[/b]
Not really a relevant combo itself, but its to show that j623c is an o.k way to add extra damage at the end of the combo if you have meter to burn or simply don't care about the knockdown/are going for a tricky airthrow reset. Make sure you get both hits of the j623c by being below the opponent.
[b]2aa 2b(1hit) 5b 5c 2c 6b j.c j.22c nsj.cb dj.bc airthrow[/b]
Somewhat tricky. You have to neutral superjump and j.c very quickly after the j22c Can change the first j.c to j.b if it makes it easier for you/on some characters. Although the damage is high, you airthrow them from so high that it means the okizeme corner potential is really bad so its better to use 214c combos there.
[b](near corner) 2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 214c 22d 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bc dj.bc airthrow[/b]
Basic corner 214c combo. Can be difficult to get the 6b in on some chars, you have to delay the 2c, then the 2b a lot, then quickly do 5b 6b. If you want omit the 2b to do 5b 6b instead.
Because dash 2a5b is a common way to get in on an opponent, your combo will more likely end up looking like [b]2aa 5b 6b 5c 2c [/b] at the start in the corner but in general hitconfirms this is more reliable.
22d is optional but it looks cool
[b](near corner) 2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 214c 5a5b[b ] 22d 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bc dj.bc airthrow[/b]
Harder version. You have to cancel from 214c immediatly then quickly emptycancel the 5a into 5b[b ] to start charging the followup straight away.
[b]6[b ] (overhead) 5c 2c 5bb j.bc sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Basic combo off 6[b ]. Because it uses 5bb you can end up with shitty oki in the corner, so you might wanna use the following combo instead
[b]6[b ] (overhead) 2b (2 hit) 5b 5c j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Works because the second hit of 2b sweeps crouchers (presumably if they got hit by the overhead they were crouching....right?). In retrospect this combo does slightly less than the fixed one I uploaded in the followup video.
[b]5b[b ] (overhead) 214a 2c2b5bb j.cb sdjbc airthrow[/b]
214a makes the overhead safe on block and go insatntly into a low following it, potentially allowing for a otg relaunch.
[b](near corner) 6[b ] (overhead) 214a 214c 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bc dj.bc airthrow[/b]
Basic otg relaunch from the pseudo 50/50 overhead mixup. Its possible to just ex cancel the 214a into 214c to get slightly better damage but its only by like 20, and it can make it harder to hitconfirm properly so I'd personally advise against it.
Avoid using 22d here because it will end up moving you forward and thus making you combo them out the corner (if you really have problems then you can whiff 5a and walk backwards to make sure you keep them inside the corner, it doesn't hurt your damage).
There are usable otg strings here but they typically end up reducing the damage of the combo except on characters you can fit in a 2c against, so overall its genreally easier and better to just go raw. 5a5b[b ] is possible but you need to be pushed out from them for it to work (which means you need a reliable otg string that doesn't involve 5a or 5b, or be far out from the corner in the first place)
[b](near corner) j.b/c (blocked) j22b 214a 214c 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bc dj.bc airthrow[/b]
Another pseudo 50/50 after a blocked jumpin to create a double overhead. Same stuff applies as before.
*Not in the video but relevant*
[b]any otg relaunch near the corner with 214c 2c 2b 5bb j[c] j22a 623bb[/b]
Hard knockdown variant of the corner relaunch combos. Same stuff applies as before.
[b]22c 2c 5c j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Basic combo off a 22c command throw midscreen. Note he only throws the opponent if he manages to get behind them early and there is space behind them.
[b](near corner) 22c 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bc dj.bc airthrow[/b]
Unlikely to have situations to use this one much but its there for the extra damage nonetheless
[b]Air counterhit 5b5c j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Max damage practical confirm off air CH. Easier confirms include just plain old 5c, 5b 6b, or deep 5c 5bb. Its possible to do 2b 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow but this is reallllly precise and difficult to setup on the fly.
[b]623a ch/623 trade 5b6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Basic confirm off of dp chs and trades. The new ch system means that 623a one hit on ch can always be combo'd off.
[b]Gold airthrow 2c 5c j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Basic confirm off raw airthrow midscreen.
[b]Gold airthrow 2c 5b 6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Slightly harder due to the extra delay you have to give after the 2c.
[b](near corner) Gold airthrow 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Corner airthrow combo
[b](near corner) 2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 214c 5a5b[b ] 22d 2c 214c 214a 2c 214a 22b~d [/b]
Max mode combo for a corner setup. Its not really too ambigious but hey, had to end with something flashier right?
--- End code ---
http://youtu.be/GEbeP4DdOGU
--- Code: ---Second vid, covers some more situational/complex stuff along with a few things I missed.
[b]6[b ] (overhead) 5b 2b (2 hit) 2c 5c j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Slightly improved overhead combo. I didn't realise 2c actually hit properly after the 2b sweep at the correct range.
[b]2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 214c 22d 2c 2b 5bb j[c] j.22a 623bb
2aa 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 214c 5a 5b[b ] 22d 2c 2b 5bb j[c] j.22a 623bb[/b]
Powerful hard knockdown corner combos, only lose about a hundred damage for attempting these
[b]j.c 5c 2c 5b 6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
The most staple post jumpin combo. Will also work off j.b now at the right height but you'll most likely have to put in a 2a between the jumpin and the 5c otherwise.
[b]j.c 2b 5c 2c 5b 6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Has a stricter range requirement but leads to more damage.
[b]j.c 5c 2b (2hit) 5b 6b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Max damage combo off a jumpin on a croucher only (2b only sweeps crouchers)
*Not in video but relevant*
(near corner) j.C 5b 2b(1hit) 5c 2c 6b 22a j.abc sdj.bc airthrow
Maximum damage off a jumpin when near the corner.
[b]j.[c] 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow
j.[c] 2b 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Confirms off charged j.c groundbounce. The 2b starter is quite finnicky about positioning so you may prefer the alternative.
[b](Blockstring) 214bb (hit) 5b j.bca sdj.bc airthrow
(Blockstring) 214bb (hit) 5bb j.cb sdj.bc airthrow
(Blockstring) 214b (counter hit) 5a 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Converts for 214b in blockstrings. Typically the move is not used a lot for C-Moon so you probably wont use these much.
[b](Blockstring) 236a (hit) 214c 22d 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow
(Blockstring) 236a (hit) 214c 5a 5b[b ] 22d 2c 2b 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow
(Blockstring) 236a (hit) 214c 22d 2c 2b 5bb j.[c] j.22a 623bb
(Blockstring) 236a (hit) 214c 5a 5b[b ] 22d 2c 2b 5bb j.[c] j.22a 623bb[/b]
Converts off staggered 236 series. These can be done off the B version as well. If the move catches someone jumping be wary since the 214c will end up whiffing.
[b](Blockstring) 22[a] (overhead) 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow
(Blockstring) 22a (counterhit) 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow
(Blockstring) 22a (jumping opponent) 5b 6b j.bc sdj.bc airthrow[/b]
Basic confirm from 22a overhead near the corner. Note that since 22a wallslams you can combo off people trying to jump out of your string. If your 22a was really delayed and they are quite airborne by the time it hits, you will have to simply do [b]j.abc sdj.bc airthrow [/b]to connect after it instead of a grounded normal
[b](otg corner setup) 5a 2b(2hit) 5b 2aaa dash 5aa 2b(2hit) 5b[/b]
This is the easiest double otg. Its still not very easy, so its not really too important for beginners and you'll probably want to use the later listed otg instead.
Its also possible to fit in a 2c between 5b and 2a, or add more 5a's at the start or second part of the string (more damage and meter). You can end the string in more 2a's again but its still possible to cover all techs without it and it will only give you even more reverse beat. Use at your own discrestion for meter and whatnot. Note that the second part after the dash is actually invalid because in any real otg situation (such as 2c 5a or a 214a) they can tech after the first.
Some characters also get up too fast to double otg. I haven't really made complete otg strings for every char because that particular setup allows techpunish off everythig very easily. You could also end the string on 5b on those characters for less reverse beat. You could also add extra 5a's in at the start or double otg part if you plan to end on 5b
This is what these followups are for.
Create the same situation and just wait after the 2aaa, and you can reaction 2c cover all techs. If they forward tech you can even score bigger combos due tot he fact they are right next to you.
If you need to score higher damage, [b]5aaa 2b 5b 5c 2c 2a [/b]nets higher damage than the single otg before and still lets you techpunish (Have to walk backwards a little to punish forward techs, which makes back and neutral techs not combo into 5c properly), and [b]5aa 2b 5b 2c 2aa 5c[/b] for maximum damage but you have to jump cancel the 5c to not get punished if they teched. This means you can only cover forward or back techs with either a forward jump or back jump j.c so its not really advisable to do this unless you have to end the round with the damage.
Both of these combos build less meter than a double otg and the the main point of the double otg is to make the opponent WANT to tech, since most smart players do not against this obvious setup most of the time. With that in mind though, its usually worth it to just otg relaunch whenever you can with Tohno.
Midscreen otgs are not usually worth it because you can only typically get 3 normals in before they are too far away, as well as being unable to cover backward tech as easily like H-Tohno can with his airdash.
--- End code ---
Vizer:
awesome, that combo list is really helpful
i have some newbie questions, i hope you don't mind
--- Quote from: Irysa ---Avoid 5bb combos like the plague in the corner
--- End quote ---
why? does 5BB after 5C 2C launch them too high in the corner? why does 5BB force you to super jump when you jump with 8 after it?
--- Quote from: Irysa ---but honestly if you're doing the air combos correctly you should have your opponent scared to do anything on wakeup anyway, so your dashins are free.
--- End quote ---
unrelated to combos but i'd like to ask anyway, why should they be afraid on wakeup if you do proper air combos, and why do you want to dash in on their wakeup? (i might be misunderstanding)
--- Quote from: Irysa ---5b[b ] (overhead) 214a 2c2b5bb j.cb sdjbc airthrow
214a makes the overhead safe on block and go insatntly into a low following it, potentially allowing for a otg relaunch.
--- End quote ---
if the 5B[B ] hits, you can only follow it up with an air combo, right?
this is in the MBAA wiki for C Tohno, does the part about j.CB dj.BC doing more damage still apply?
--- Quote from: wiki ---[8] j.BC sdj.BC throw/623C
Basic air combo, also the staple.
[8] j.CB dj.BC throw/623C
Does like 30 more damage than the one above. Take a pick.
--- End quote ---
lastly, how do you follow up on an unblocked j.C or j.[C]?
Vizer:
still not sure if this is the place to ask this stuff, but:
what do you wanna use on oki or as anti-air with C Tohno?
Rayza:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXrnG8e_gNQ
Just a c-tohno combo I came up with for hard knockdown off 214c, seems pretty useful Irysa should probably throw it in your list.
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