2008 Melty Cup - US Championships

[jocund]

The only person who gets to tell people to shut the fuck up and gets to make it stick is me.

Whoever says otherwise will have to go through ME!   

[Kryojenix]

I would like same characters and I've been asking nicely 

[Hellmonkey]

Anyone who brings up 3x Ciel is, I'm assuming, also for the banning of Ciel in singles, since using Ciel more than half the time is clearly too good and needs to be banned(indirectly of course).  Lets just force everyone to switch characters every game in singles so you can only use Ciel for one game each match.  This promotes character variety too! Hay guys clearly balance is the only issue and there is no difference between a team match and a singles match with multiple games ^_^

I want to clarify that by competitive environment I mean playing a game in it's native form, without any modifications unless necessary(like banning akuma in st).  You can take other forms of a game and play them just as competitively, but it isn't the same game, and usually isn't worth it if it isn't a big change.(and yes, banning akuma in st is a big change from everyone running akuma)  And no, a tournament format isn't changing the game.(Although teams technically do it's more like a big format change for the purpose of this discussion.)

1) You asked why and I gave you the reason.  So I'm not 100% sure on the "some idiot" remark, but it is a dumb rule.  It specifically answers the question you ask, but holds no water in this debate?  Well, technically the reason for it being discussed doesn't have any merit either way in whether or not it should be a rule, but then why ask the question?  And how is it subjective?  I'm objectively looking at it from the point of a competitive gamer/tournament runner.  I'm not considering someone paying you to include the rule as a reason, or other such things.  I wouldn't call someone an idiot for using it then, but the rule is still dumb. The rule is dumb omg lolz

2) It isn't subjective in any way.  Name one fighting game where it shouldn't apply to in a competitive environment.  Just because of your subjective view that you don't like the idea of 3x Ciel doesn't mean it should be a rule. One game where the one character limit shouldn't apply?  Can't think of one, I thought that's what you were arguing.

For the rest I was speaking in the hypothetical, IE it concerns every fighting game, past, present, and future.  But since you want to specifically  talk about MB, lets for a moment, since it is the worst example of a game to use the rule for the reason stated.  Huh?  You've given a reason aside from saying you think it's dumb? (along with somehow comparing singles with teams over the issue of balance and variety when you even mention yourself that teams are a "big format change", implying that (as it so happens) different rules should be used )

3a) How DOES it promote character variety?  It forces(not promotes) at least 3 characters to be used.  That isn't much variety considering, even in usa, we have most characters represented already.  How many times have you seen more than two people in the top 8 of a mb tournament use the same character?  This applies to almost any competitively played game right now that isn't a team game(mvc2, cvs2, kof).  All of this happened without the rule.  Now how is this going to improve this?  All it does is force Kryo to play a secondary character or to team with different people.

"If you seriously consider expected character selection a valid reason (against) the rule either way I am forced to question your intelligence"

3b) It's anti-competitive because it forces you to pick worse characters for unnatural reasons.  It's not that you can't be competitive with these restrictions, but it's no less dumb than saying ban a random character that you don't like.(oh and also banning ones that you don't mind like 3x hisui as well for no good reason)  3x Ciel(or any character) isn't the best team to go in with.  This applies to any game without a broken as hell character.  If you want to argue that it is the best, be sure to back it up with valid reasons.  Having no counters would be one, but this applies the same to singles as well.  It's also arguable whether or not it's true(That japanese matchup chart has disagreements here.  There isn't one character where both Ciels and the other players thought it was bad for Ciel).  Both general knowledge of mb and results show that she isn't broken or anywhere near unbeatable, so ST akuma level is out of the question. Hay I can contradict myself without making a point at the same time.

Since we're talking specifically about MB for the moment, do any half way competent Ciel players plan to team up?  Didn't think so...although now I half want to just to piss people off.  How about any top tier characters?  Closest you'll probably get is mech hisui.

So, anyone considering switching to Ciel [or another popular character(like we have any to begin with)] if you're allowed to team with other Ciel players?  Didn't think so.  Anyone considering switching characters at all?  Oh hey Kryo, run that top tier secondary.

...so so far the rule caused an upper mid to switch to a top.  Mission accomplished?

(But seriously, the 3 above paragraphs don't have anything to do with why the rule should(/n't) be there.  If you seriously consider expected character selection a valid reason (against) the rule either way I am forced to question your intelligence.) Agreed, why did you write them?

(more shit I won't put myself through reading again)

[Spirit Juice]

Zaelar, I'm not even going to dignify a proper response to your post other than what I briefly have to say here.  I came into the debate asking honest questions, looking for an honest debate, and you've turned it into a juvenile argument.  The immaturity in your post hardly warrants any kind of serious response, so grow up.  Acting childish and insulting people does nothing for your argument other than make it worse.

[Zaelar]

Zaelar, could you be, y'know, any less respectful of the people you're debating with instead of implying that they're either: 1) morons, 2) gay, or 3) babbling idiots? Whatever actual logic is behind your arguments is obscured by the trashiness of your posts and your utter lack of respect towards your fellow Melty Breaders. The only person who gets to tell people to shut the fuck up and gets to make it stick is me.

Don't make me say it.

I never implied that anyone is gay.    If you're talking about "sucking cock", it's an expression that basically means supporting something without a reason, and has nothing to do with homosexuality.  I'm assuming anyone who babbles on about random x-copied reasons that aren't even true is a babbling idiot, but I don't see where I said or even implied that though...unless you mean saying that they are wrong, in which case you've got a lot of banning to do.  If you mean that I took the time to actually type all that out and explain the details that people keep missing, then I guess that would be implying that people are morons that couldn't figure it out on their own, so when are you banning anyone with a long post that explains things?.  There is one insult in the whole post, and I'm not even sure it applies to anyone here.  It isn't a "you're an idiot" type insult either.  It applies to a specific thought that some people(and I'm not sure who) might be having, and calling them out on it.

If you really think that my post is obscure you need to read it again.  There are a couple places where it could be shorter, but aside from an extra line here and there it doesn't distort anything.  If theres something specific you don't quite get you could ask.

[Kryojenix]

Can we keep this in the "same character" poll thread?  I'm sure no one wants this thread cluttered with drama...

[Arlieth Tralare]

I never implied that anyone is gay.    If you're talking about "sucking cock", it's an expression that basically means supporting something without a reason, and has nothing to do with homosexuality.  I'm assuming anyone who babbles on about random x-copied reasons that aren't even true is a babbling idiot, but I don't see where I said or even implied that though...unless you mean saying that they are wrong, in which case you've got a lot of banning to do.  If you mean that I took the time to actually type all that out and explain the details that people keep missing, then I guess that would be implying that people are morons that couldn't figure it out on their own, so when are you banning anyone with a long post that explains things?.  There is one insult in the whole post, and I'm not even sure it applies to anyone here.  It isn't a "you're an idiot" type insult either.  It applies to a specific thought that some people(and I'm not sure who) might be having, and calling them out on it.

If you really think that my post is obscure you need to read it again.  There are a couple places where it could be shorter, but aside from an extra line here and there it doesn't distort anything.  If theres something specific you don't quite get you could ask.

You really don't get it, do you? Your entire post was condescending and arrogant, which clouds the entire post. Nobody really wants to read it because they'll get pissed off after the first paragraph.

If you can't debate this like an adult, then further posting in this thread by you will be considered an infraction. Everyone else, tone the sarcasm down by a notch please or there will be  

[F9|Chibi]

For one time in my life, I agree with Zaelar.

You guys want to promote character variety, but he's said we've already got that. The majority of the cast is being played seriously throughout the US. We have a bloody NAC player for god sake. So what's the real reason to keep the rule there? Are you worried that people will be running 3x Ciel or 3x Sion to better their chances of winning the tournament? Are such teams so bad that the rule need be upheld? If they are, well, then you ban the character, right? A 'boring' team is hardly a reason to keep people from doing such a thing, there's plenty money at stake.

I mean you have proof with Kyro right here. He wants to join Kijea and Nerina, but Kijea plays Mech. So now Kyro can't play his best character. That may create variety, but it dumbs down the team having to force Kyro to change his character, no?

And I don't see it being as condescending as you folks are making it out to be, but whatever.

Just forget it Kevin, and run mm's with 3 man one character teams with Saiyd.

[jocund]

Can we keep this in the "same character" poll thread?  I'm sure no one wants this thread cluttered with drama...

Most likely you're too late to say that 

[Qaenyin]

Personally I don't think we have enough topheavy character distrobution among the players to warrant the rule in the first place.  We'd have to have people _going out of their way_ to make teams with 3 of the same character, because there's such an even spread.

And, as was mentioned earlier, would 3 ciels/sions/koumas/whatever really be that big a deal?  If there's 3 of the same character then all 3 of them share the same weakness(es).  It's not like we have enough of a player base for teams that most people can be choosy about who plays who on whose team in the first place, since the most like team comps are actually 3 different characters.

So, basically, imho implementing the rule or not implementing the rule won't matter since 99% of the time there won't be a 3 single character team and if there were it wouldn't impact their odds of winning much.

[linalys]

Just cancel all the Melty Cup merchandise (trophies, belt, etc) and make this a 3x character tournament.  It has more than already lost all purpose. 

[Qaenyin]

Just cancel all the Melty Cup merchandise (trophies, belt, etc) and make this a 3x character tournament.  It has more than already lost all purpose. 

To be frank the same could be said of the entire game community.  Half the players are just bored GG players and people who just happen to play but continually say the game sucks and shouldn't be taken seriously because it's just a button mashfest and guilty gear/arcana heart/third strike/SWR/IAMP/whatever_new_fad is so much more fun and deeper and worth bothering with.  I'm tired of hearing it at this point.

It's pretty deplorable when more people playing the game treat it like that than not.

[Jaxx]

OMFG everyone shut the fuck up.  Lets just have a good tourney.  Hellmonkey all though has some what of a point, its not really needed.  All people want is a good tourney, regardless of what teams enter and how they do we still want a good tourney.

Fuck all these rules bullshit as long as niggas show up to play it doesn't fucking matter.  Bring your 2 or 3 of whatever, everyone plays fucking different, and it doesn't matter for replay videos because all that shit will be hyped up the same because I'll be commentating those mothafukas. 

People need to do more of  stfu and practicing to win big fucking money, and less fucking talking.

[jocund]

OMFG everyone shut the fuck up.  Lets just have a good tourney.  Hellmonkey all though has some what of a point, its not really needed.  All people want is a good tourney, regardless of what teams enter and how they do we still want a good tourney.

Fuck all these rules bullshit as long as niggas show up to play it doesn't fucking matter.  Bring your 2 or 3 of whatever, everyone plays fucking different, and it doesn't matter for replay videos because all that shit will be hyped up the same because I'll be commentating those mothafukas. 

People need to do more of  stfu and practicing to win big fucking money, and less fucking talking.

I applaud to this man!

[Kryojenix]

I mean you have proof with Kyro right here. He wants to join Kijea and Nerina,

This is no longer the case but since the "decide teams one month before Melty Cup" rule is out, the new team is a secret.

OMFG everyone shut the fuck up.  Lets just have a good tourney.  Hellmonkey all though has some what of a point, its not really needed.  All people want is a good tourney, regardless of what teams enter and how they do we still want a good tourney.

Fuck all these rules bullshit as long as niggas show up to play it doesn't fucking matter.  Bring your 2 or 3 of whatever, everyone plays fucking different, and it doesn't matter for replay videos because all that shit will be hyped up the same because I'll be commentating those mothafukas. 

People need to do more of  stfu and practicing to win big fucking money, and less fucking talking.

Thumbs up soldier!

[F9|Chibi]

Just cancel all the Melty Cup merchandise (trophies, belt, etc) and make this a 3x character tournament.  It has more than already lost all purpose. 

lol

ok no need to go that for linalys

I'm still pretty damn hype for this tourney, its the only reason im going to evo

<3

[Qaenyin]

OMFG everyone shut the fuck up.  Lets just have a good tourney.  Hellmonkey all though has some what of a point, its not really needed.  All people want is a good tourney, regardless of what teams enter and how they do we still want a good tourney.

Fuck all these rules bullshit as long as niggas show up to play it doesn't fucking matter.  Bring your 2 or 3 of whatever, everyone plays fucking different, and it doesn't matter for replay videos because all that shit will be hyped up the same because I'll be commentating those mothafukas. 

People need to do more of  stfu and practicing to win big fucking money, and less fucking talking.

Absolutely right.

[Jaxx]

No ones more hype for this tourney than me, I get to see all my niggaz in one place.  How good is that?!?  I rarely get to see my peps, but now i get to see everyone at the same time.  That is rape....and we're in vegas. 

[REAL DAKANYA TALK]

Jaxx deserves 6 afros instead of 3.

[jocund]

Jaxx deserves 6 afros instead of 3.

Why not 7 instead?

[Zaido]

lets give him 8 so it has a perfect symmetry 

[Spirit Juice]

Because if he gets seven afros he'll start playing Marvel and stabbing people.

[jocund]

Because if he gets seven afros he'll start playing Marvel and stabbing people.

Then I'll give you 10 Megaman's head!

[Hellmonkey]

lets give him 8 so it has a perfect symmetry 

LOL nice.  I hope lots of people show up for this tourney.

[REAL DAKANYA TALK]

Because if he gets seven afros he'll start playing Marvel and stabbing people.

seconded

i dont want to get stabbed over this game.