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Author Topic: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread  (Read 12992 times)

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Offline Funky-kun

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MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« on: January 11, 2012, 03:56:12 PM »
Changes:
Jump C is now untechable knockdown!
Other than that, the same nerf on Momiji Damage as H. (1800 -> 1400)
OTG Relaunches: (j.)22c, 623c, 214c

For those of you that don't know/remember MBAC VAkiha, the goal of Crescent is to slap the bad guys with her jC, and get them in the corner, where she can break down the opponent's defenses with pit fueled pressure. If you have the meter, each combo in the corner should end in EX pit. It drains life and meter, and on activation gives you massive frame advantage. Make the opponent fear this, and use this as your advantage. Midscreen use j.236a and j.236b to control space, and airdash jC on CH to start pressure. Although blessed with godlike mobility, Ms. V dies in two combos from most of the cast, so beware.


Midscreen Combos:

2aa5c4c2c5bb j.ab j.a(b)c
Basic midscreen BnB. In order to get all hits in, do a slight delay after 2c, and drift towards the opponent after the superjump cancel out of 5bb.

2aa5c4c5bb tk j.236a j.aaab j.bc
Advanced midscreen BnB for more damage and corner carry. It  whiffs on some distances where the basic BnB would connect. Depending on the timing of the tigerknee j.236a you can cross them up.

2aa5c2c4c j.abc
Sets up basic midscreen mixup. You can IAD from j.7 or j.9 for crossup/no crossup.

2aa5c4c2c(5b)623b
If too far for 5bb to connect. The 5b before 623b juggles them higher for more corner carry. You can go for superjump into crossup/no crossup, or dash 623c to carry them to corner.

2aa5c4c2c slight delay 623c
         - IAD j.a whiff 2c4c623b 4c2c(delay 5bb)623b
         - j9 4c2c623b 4c2c(delay 5bb)623b
         - 4c2c623b 4c2c(delay 5bb)623b
Midscreen to corner Momiji loops. Use whatever you find most appropriate.


Momiji Loops

This loop is the core of VAkiha's game. Decent damage, good meter gain, and sets up her okizeme. You also get to drain life and meter if done over a pit. You can pretty much freestyle throughout the combo, just keep in mind that additional hits scale the gravity, and you also have to adjust for some character's floatyness. Depending on the timing, some hits from 623b may whiff.

-4c is the easiest loop relauncher. Requires no particular timing, and the damage loss isn't that bad, so you can use it as a starting point.

-5b2c delay 4c is the best loop relauncher in terms of meter gain and damage. It is gravity sensitive, so avoid it if you have too many hits in.

-Use 2b(1)2c if you catch the opponent with the tip of 2c, and 623b lifts them just before they fall to the ground. Damage is pretty bad, but this is the only way to go through all reps of the loop with screwed up spacing.

- The loops below are what I use regularly, and are a good compromise between execution requirements and reward.

Starter:
2aa5c4c2c(5b)623b
The optimal starter. You can use 5b to juggle them if not near enough to the corner.

- 4c2c623b 4c2c(delay 5bb)623b
Full Momiji loop. Best meter gain, best damage. Afterwards you can set up pit with 227 j.22c land tk7 j.236a meaty. The ribbon may not be airtight against characters with fast wakeup. Also, tigerknee pit is kinda hard to do with the new buffer. If you're desperate, you can heat after the loop and continue pressure.

- 4c2c623b 4c2c jump j.22c j.236a
Easier setup with meaty for the whole cast. The ribbon's momentum keeps you safe from most all reversals. but beware stuff like C-Ciel 236c. If j22c is done low enough, you land from the ribbon by the time the opponent can punish you. The video example has j.22c rather high, so the likes of C-Ciel 236C could punish it.

- 4c2c 2a (whiff) delay 5c 2c
Half Momiji loop. Keeps opponent in corner, but enables crossup.

- 4c2c5bb j.ab j.abc OTG
Depending on the OTG, this ender can gain more meter while dealing the same damage. Sets up tech punish situation. If pushed at the right distance, 236c covers all tech options and keeps momentum in your favor in case of no tech.

- 4c2c623b 4c2c5bb j.aab j.aab airthrow
Minimal damage gain. Use only when going for the kill.


Momiji loops when in MAX:

2aa5c4c2c slight delay 623c j.22c 2a2c623b 4c2c(delay 5bb)623b
Sets up pit and leaves you with tons of +frames.

2aa5c4c2c623b 4c2c623c j.22c 2a2c(delay 5bb)623b
This actually deals more damage.


Misc Combos:

Raw airthrow:

-2a2c delay 5b4c j.aab j.ac

-2a2c623b


j.B/j.C air counterhit:

-land 2c delay 4c5bb j.ab j.bc

-land 5c4c2c623b


Overhead Combos:

6c dash 5c4c2c623b 4c2c623b 4c2c(delay 5bb)623b
Works fullscreen, best damage.

6c dash 4c2c623b 4c2c623b 4c2c(delay 5bb)623b
From about midscreen. Omitting 5c because it will wallslam, removing a rep from the Momiji loop.

6c 623b 4c2c623b
In corner.


Back  to corner:

2aa5c4c2c5bb jump 668 j.bc
If you have a pit in the corner and cross them up, this brings them back in the same corner.


Pressure:

-Most of her normals can be canceled into each other extremely late, creating deceiving staggers.

-Whiff cancel cancel (?): cancelling the whiff cancel into another normal to keep opponent at bay. (e.g. 2aa5c5b 5a (whiff) cancel into 2c into 623b on hit)

-Tigerknee 8/7 j.236a are godlike in pressure. Keep you safe from heat/reversals, and have enough +frames to resume pressure.

-IAD blockstrings: With her 2 jumps and 2 airdashes, you can go for aerial blockstrings and mixups.

-If you hit them with max range 2c under pit, pit activation can be used to hitconfirm.

-Meter pressure reset is 236c. 236a (3) connects into 236c on hit. If they shield it, you can throw. If they jump, you can go for guard break.  If they block, reset pressure.

-In corner, dash 5a6e is good. This gives 5aa on jumping opponent, which you can hitconfirm, 5aa on standing block, or 5a (whiff) throw on crouch block.

-Midscreen, 2a2c beats backdashes.

-In aircombos, always end with jC instead of airthrow, as it keeps the momentum in your favor.



TO DO: Half Momiji loop mixups, optimal OTG.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 01:32:40 AM by Funky-kun »
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Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 09:55:00 AM »
Very good info, Funky-kun. Good work! A few additions from myself:

Random 2C confirm in corner: 2C dash 2AAA 5BB 4C 623C 2C 623B
Notes: Best confirm with meter. Converts a random knockdown into more damage and much better oki.

Random 2C confirm in corner (w/o meter): 2C dash 2AAA 4C 5BB 5AA 2367A
Notes: Doesn't relaunch, but sets up flame ribbon tech punish setup. You can also opt to use 236C if you build enough meter from the OTG combo, which will also tech punish

Optimal OTG off 1 Rep of Momiji Loop: dash 2AAAA 5BB 2367A/236C
Notes: Because of so many hits, you cannot go into full OTG combo after 1 rep of the Momiji loop. So instead, just go for tech punish

-Add 5B 2C xx 4C to your Momiji reps. From what I can tell, this is THE most damaging variant.
-Also a small note about inputting 227A/B/C: Because of the reduced input buffer, you must do this motion slightly different than in PS2. In PS2, you could hit 2, 2, 7, and then the attack button after all the direction inputs. In CC, you must simultaneously input the attacking button and 7. So for example, you would input an Ex-Pit as 2, 2, 7+C. (No space between 7 and C at all)
-236A cancel into 236C is generally a weak string now, and I'd advise going straight from your blocked normals into 236C when you're using it for a pressure reset. 236A will push VAkiha far away and make it more difficult to punish shielding, and leave her at less + frames after the super because she has to waste more time dashing.

For those of you who, like myself, like the midscreen 623B knockdown, you can confirm into this off your overhead from anywhere. I would advise doing this when you do not have the meter to do j.22C after the overhead combo Funky-kun listed. The combo is:
(corner) 6C dash 2A(whiff) 5C 2C 623B
From there, you can super jump/air dash into 4 way mixup or do ambiguous which-ways with flametongue.

C-VAkiha is also the only VAkiha with a fuzzy. Unfortunately, it's useless in that you can't confirm off it. But if you really need that extra hit for the kill, its worth knowing:

air dash deep j.AB dj.C

I was hoping it would confirm into pit activation, but it doesn't still.  :-\

Half-Momiji setups on the way!
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Offline NoNo

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 12:41:54 PM »
Quote
Optimal OTG off 1 Rep of Momiji Loop: dash 2AAAA 5BB 236C

Won't doing that otg get you killed by forward tech?

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 02:24:30 PM »
Quote
Optimal OTG off 1 Rep of Momiji Loop: dash 2AAAA 5BB 236C

Won't doing that otg get you killed by forward tech?

Nope, 236C has a hitbox behind VAkiha as well
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Offline Funky-kun

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 04:18:03 PM »
Quote
-Add 5B 2C xx 4C to your Momiji reps. From what I can tell, this is THE most damaging variant.
Is it possible to do this on both the second and the third rep? Every time I try it I drop it on the last rep, 5b is kinda slow.

Quote
I was hoping it would confirm into pit activation, but it doesn't still.
Same here. All we ever get is nerfs.  :emo:

Quote
Optimal OTG off 1 Rep of Momiji Loop: dash 2AAAA 5BB 236C
With this OTG, I can't get 236C to cover forward tech. The hitbox behind VAkiha is relatively small, and unless you are pushed a certain distance away from the corner (which isn't enough in this case), it misses them. What I can get to work with 236C is:

(from starter -> 623b -> 4c2c5bb aircombo)

5c2aa(a)2b(2)4c(2)
and
2aaaa2b(2)4c(2)

With these two the pushback from 2b(2 hit) is pretty much what gives the needed spacing.



Fixed some info in the first post and added more info on the Momiji loop variants.
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Offline NoNo

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 01:25:42 PM »
Quote
Optimal OTG off 1 Rep of Momiji Loop: dash 2AAAA 5BB 236C

Won't doing that otg get you killed by forward tech?

Nope, 236C has a hitbox behind VAkiha as well
That hitbox doesn't reach far enough. 236C was a fine enderin MBAC where the ot where so long (2AAAAA 5C 4C 2C 5BB) that they put you far enough, but some chars, like miyako, could cross up with forward tech if you shortened the otg even a bit.

Those otg are shorter, you won't gain the necessary space. I just bothered checking with aoko, and she could tech forward cleanly, so I'm doubtful.

Edit : Oh, funky beat me to it.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 01:31:32 PM by NoNo »

Offline Omicron Austin

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 03:29:57 PM »
Oh man, this is exactly what I was looking for, thank you!  The videos are a great touch, too.

Questions:
1) Is there ever an appropriate time to use a non EX pit?  I use j.22b sometimes to discourage characters that want to be full screen away, but that's about all.

2) When you TK j.236 backwards, what do you suggest for ease of execution? 7236a or 2367a?  I can get it semi-consistently with both methods.

3) Likewise, do you guys suggest 282c or 228c to do the TK pit?

4) When do I use j.236b?  Only when I'm above them?

5) You mention TK 8/7 j.236a is great, but what about 2369a?  Is it too risky?  I notice at point blank range, if they're crouching, it will go over most characters and you could do a crossup 2A I suppose, as well as bait certain counter hits.  But is it also a good gap closer if you're too far from them but want to start pressure?

6) You also never mentioned 214a or 214b.  When are these useful?  Or is there always something better you could be doing rather than these moves?  I find sometimes I can get a surprise counterhit by putting a charged 214b at the end of some blockstrings and confirm into a loop, but that might just be a bad opponent and if they block it, pressure is over.

Thanks for any answers, guys!

Offline Funky-kun

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 04:09:48 PM »
1) Non-ex pit can be used as a zoning tool, but you risk not being able to set up ex pit if you score knockdown. This boils down to personal preference. If I have less than 100 meter at the end of a Momiji loop, I would go for IAD mixups with the additional frame advantage.

2) I input it as 412367a. I can't get 7236a to work low enough.

3) For pit, use 227c. 282c/228c give you superjump, which is slower than regular jump. LordPangTong has some notes about the execution in the second post.

4) Yes, j.236b is generally used when your opponent is below you (not directly below you of course). It is mainly a tool to get air counterhits.

5) tk 2369a works as a crossup trick after throw midscreen or during midscreen pressure. However, if your opponent has sharp reflexes you can be countered out of its startup, as you're moving towards them. If you're willing to take the risk and move in for pressure, it can get the job done. Its less risky if you can hit the opponent with just the tip of the flametongue, keeping you at a safe distance.

6) Yes, sticking charge pillars in blockstrings works if you get your opponent to respect you, as it's pressure reset and puts them in the corner on block. Even if they read it, most characters lack the tools to punish properly if you do it from a distance, but it basically resets the position in neutral with you at a frame disadvantage.
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Offline Funky-kun

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 06:27:48 AM »
Changed the structure of the first post a bit, added aerial counter and raw airthrow cobmos. Still looking for help on Half Momiji loop mixups and optimal OTG.
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Offline Omicron Austin

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 12:33:57 AM »
I need some help, guys; I can possibly upload a video of myself playing at some point, but for now I'll describe my situation.

1) My friend plays F-Miyako and solely F-Miyako; is this a bad matchup for C-VAkiha?  It seems like an incredibly uphill battle; she can just crouch your IAD j.A and j.B, and she has several great reversals to help her get out of pressure, while VAkiha DOESN'T have any good antiairs or reversals to get out of Miyako's pressure.  To top it off, his combos all break 4k or 5k consistently while I can't possibly get past 4k even with meter, so my hard-earned hits feel incredibly less effective.

2) What do I do in neutral game against Miyako?  I can't tell if my friend is just way more skilled than me, but I can't really get counterhits as well as he can; as soon as I take to the air he does too, and all of his air normals seem to have more active frames than mine.  Plus, I'm not really sure how to utilize j.236a or j.236b; they all come out too slow when he's so on top of me like that; again, this may just be me being awful at footsies, but I'd appreciate any input.

3) I have NO idea what to do when he's directly above me, which happens quite often.  It's a bit hard to describe, so I'm not quite sure if I'll be able to get help on this without a video.

4) I'm guessing my pressure is pretty bad and this is where my doubts for the viability of VAkiha is coming into question, since I can't take advantage of her tools but still feel all of her weaknesses.  I can never keep my friend pinned down for long enough, and I'm not sure what to do about it.  Reverse beating and then dashing in feels like it's really, really easy to see coming and he just throws out some jabs to stop me; what do I do to try to bait something here?

5) Also, I'm not quite sure what to do to stop jumpouts, which I assume is extremely important when your pit is down.  If I do a blockstring, reverse beat, dash in and do either 5A or 5C, far too often he's too high up to effectively combo after or even to hit at all, let alone the fact that I can't reasonably hitconfirm it.  Doing 236C as a pressure reset doesn't feel too effective either; it has frame advantage, but doesn't feel like it has enough to dash up and do a jab before they can, and without the dash you're too far for anything.  I'm assuming that IAD j.A j.B jc j.A into either airdash j.C or 2A is still a good mixup (despite it not working on a crouching Miyako).  Not sure what else to do as a mixup other than run up, jab once or twice and go for a 6C.

6) I see in videos that players consistently do momiji loop, 22C, and then 2367a.  How crucial is this 2367a?  Because I've practiced for hours and still can't execute it consistently; 2368 keeps coming out (I try the input as 412367).  I feel like the point of the 2367a is to bait dragon punches, and doing 2368 doesn't help there.

7) ...would F-VAkiha be better against Miyako?  What matchups might you guys think C-VAkiha would be considered better than F?  Or even H-VAkiha, since I feel I know that moon pretty well too.



Sorry for the wall of text, but I'd appreciate any help I can get.  VAkiha is the coolest character ever and I'd really like to make her work, despite the fact that she doesn't really fit my usual playstyle.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 04:36:54 AM by Omicron Austin »

Offline dakanya

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 04:47:12 AM »
1) i don't think it's particularly bad but getting hit sucks. if she's going to crouch block you IAD'ing at her just use j.C or use a j.236B which if you're high enough and have two IADs, you can do a mixup

2) meter doesn't really help you put out more combo damage... the only ways i usually hit miyako in the air is early j.A, pre-emptive j.A from above, and well spaced/timed jB. other than that i mainly use ribbons like early j236b, backdash j236a...

3) if miyako is directly above you, bad times. if you're close enough to air throw you should take it, and if you're in position for a j.B, it should idealy come out before her shit comes out

4) learn to use her tools. are you using staggers? are they respecting them? are you using TK ribbons? possibly EX ribbons? mixing in jumps or IAD j.A? do you practice staggers with the CPU set to 'recover A' ? watching match vids would help immensely here...

5) the most reliable way to catch a jumpout after a reverse beat which i'm assuming is a reverse beat whiff cancel with 5A/2A... you have to be immediately be using something to stuff them ie 5C, 2C, maybe even 4C, 22C ignition, or straight up j.A, air throw... basically NOT a re-dash in usually, especially if they are just holding up so they will jump asap. EX 236C post-block frame advantage is distance dependent. the j.B in jAB jc jA mixup is optional... some other mixups you have is just straight up IAD j.A high/low, airdash drop airdash jC... airdash whiff jC low... just watch more match vids really

6) i dont really remember how momiji loop tk j22c tk7 ribbon is... im pretty sure that doesnt even hit meaty actually. if you are talking about momiji xx 2c j7 or j7 j22c falling j236a... thats another story and that is generally meaty and safe

7) i dont actually think c is ever better than f but to be honest ive never really given it too much thought. f has air puff, air pillars... they are pretty awesome tools. c lacks in the damage department, especially midscreen and some of her normals are worse (no gdlk jC, 5C wallslams) and her tools are different.

some food for thought...

getting a pit every time off of momiji is something you may want to rethink, the momiji knockdown is an excellent time to do double airdash mixups, superjump empty low or airdash high mixup and setting up the pit takes away from this... of course you can also airdash at them and jump to bait the reversal... arguably you can wait till you have a pit to get this kind of mixup OR you can learn to set up the EX pit mid-combo by spending an extra 100% meter with EX momiji...

as for pressure, make them respect your options and reset pressure at points where you think they will respect. another tricky way to punish jumpouts is to do something that will entice them to jump out but then force them to airblock something right away and break their guard... ie IABD airdash j.AB or j.C is great for this... there are various options. watch more match vids. they don't even have to be CC match vids.

EDIT:
Quote
-Add 5B 2C xx 4C to your Momiji reps. From what I can tell, this is THE most damaging variant.
Is it possible to do this on both the second and the third rep? Every time I try it I drop it on the last rep, 5b is kinda slow.
this is very possible, make sure you tap 5b instead of holding it and delay the 4c. iirc 5b is only like 7f and 4c is around that startup too

EDIT:
~5c4c2c623b 5b2c,4c623c j22c 2a2c,4c5bb623b
best damage i found for xx 623c j22c xx
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:37:47 AM by dakanya »
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Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2012, 06:45:06 AM »
Dakanya covered most of what I wanted to say, but just to reiterate:

1) This match takes some intense getting used to. When I first played, I also thought it was massively disadvantageous for VAkiha. However, it's not that Miyako has tools for shutting down VAkiha, its just that Miyako's high damage and VAkiha's poor defense forces the VAkiha to play perfectly. Yeah, Miyako's got damage, but VAkiha's neutral game and speed are far superior to Miyako's.

2) Neutral must be played with extreme caution. In this match it is incredibly important to save one of your two air dashes at all times to make a quick escape if Miyako starts backing you into a corner or getting on top of you. As you noted, having Miyako above you is no fun, so make sure you use  VAkiha's  movement options to fly in circles around this character. The key is to not let her catch you and attack from outside her range. That said, j.236b is generally a good idea in neutral because it's long ranged and you have your air options after it recovers. j.236a should be saved for pressure and not so much neutral imo. j.236b is also important because it stops VAkiha's air momentum, and lets you re-evaluate where you should go next to stay away from Miyako.  j.b is a good option too, but you have to be careful because miyako's air normals are so active. If the Miyako is particularly j.b happy, VAkiha's will win if you come from below her. j.c is another story though. If the Miyako has predictable air movement, air throw her.

3)Run away lol

4)2367a is vital to C-VAkiha's pressure. It is frame advantage, goes over lows, and can be confirmed off easily. However, you must get the opp to respect this. In order to do this, you need to scare them into not moving via VAkiha's strong staggers. Go into training mode and practice late-canceling normals like 5b, 5c, 4c etc to beat mashing. Instead of using 5a rebeat to redash, poking with a long ranged normal after the 5a whiff will discourage mashing/jumping. 4c and 2c are good for this. Also food for thought: 236c is + on block and can serve as a pressure reset. Dak pretty much covered this

5) VAkiha mixup is more about air dash mixups into high/low more than using 6c. 6c is a once-a-match kinda thing imo

6) Veryy important. Against most characters, 2367a will stop DPs. However, Miyako's 623C will hit you out of this. (as well as 2369b and pillars, fyi) air dash dj is her best way to bait DP against Miyako. 2c j.22c falling j.236a is the best option for meaty, safe flametongue.

7) i don't see any VAkiha having more adv against Miyako than any other, so it's just a matter of preference. I, personally, prefer H. (but that's prob because I'm most comfortable with her)

Oh, and clarification on Dak's point: 5b is 6f and 4c is 8f.
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Offline dakanya

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2012, 12:29:10 PM »
nice follow up lpt

isnt it 7f and 9f? (including the first active f in the count of the startup here)

just to elaborate some more on what you wrote but the thing i feel about v.akiha's footsies in general is that a lot of times you will lose if you try to fight head-on with your normals and in trades and the trades often wont be in your favorite especially since v.akiha's health sucks. its much more reliable to get used to conserving/managing your movement options instead and look to attack the holes in their footsies instead. this is especially crucial when fighting chars like miyako, ries, kohaku etc...
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 03:43:04 PM »
Seems like you can use the 2 in 2C to buffer a tk flamepit at the end of momiji.

EX: 5C 4C 2C 623B 4C 2C 623B 4C 2C28C

You don't get a superjump if it's done like this, either. I seem to be getting meaty 5C (and IAD j.A!) on VSion after this method of setting up flamepit.

I don't know if this is news or not, but I thought it was pretty interesting, if only for the buffer trick.

Offline Sashi

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2013, 06:39:58 PM »
Is it this?
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2013, 10:04:16 PM »
Nope -- it looks like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyqStqS3VNE

Ghetto video is ghetto, but you can get the point pretty easily.

EDIT: Actually, those are the same, lol -- only difference is I think the one in the matchvid is 227, not 228. I originally thought one was higher than the other. Regardless, I'd say the important part is meaty j.A and the buffer method.

RE-EDIT: They aren't the same. I did a quick side-by-side, and the one I recorded has VAki noticeably lower to the ground.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:32:46 PM by Dusk Thanatos »

Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2013, 07:28:39 PM »
After watching Shuu a bunch more, I think I figured out why he never uses EX momiji midscreen.

As it turns out, the screen is small enough that either you can do the corner sideswap and they end up in the corner, or if you're too far out for that to be reasonable, 2c 5b 623b will land them in the corner. EX momiji is better damage and oki (though it seems you can still get 2a meaty after 623B), but you get to keep 100% to put down pit. I'm not sure if I agree with it or not, but it's worth noting.

Also, seems like you can 5c 4c 5bb j.9 airdash j.b land rejump j.b j.bc on VSion. (More hits before the launcher/more gravity makes it easier.) It's nothing super-special (or even all that useful, though you can airdash j.C instead of j.B and get a j.C knockdown right in front of your face), but I might be able to drag something cooler out of it later -- I was kinda surprised j.b had enough hitstun to do that, so maybe it has enough hitstun to airdash into j.B again.

SO ACTUALLY THERE ARE DOUBLE AIRDASH COMBOS ON RIES  :toot:

(dunno if they'll exist for characters with smaller air hitboxes, and I have no idea if this is legitimately practical, BUT)

5c 4c 5bb j.9 slight delay airdash j.b airdash j.b dj.c

Travels a pretty fair distance across the screen -- Ries should end up in the corner unless you start from  right in the other corner.

MOAR EDIT: Double airdash does work on VSion, just a pain. I think it's relegated to swag combo, though.

Also, as it turns out, you can take the advanced midscreen bnb in the OP and do 2aa 5c 4c 5bb tk236a j.ab airdash j.b sdj.bc for slightly more damage and slightly better corner carry. I think I'm gonna test this on more charas and take it into some matches and see if it's worth doing.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 03:11:06 PM by Dusk Thanatos »

Offline heavymetalmixer

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2013, 08:52:55 PM »
What about 2C 4C as the rep for the Momijio loop?, it's possible (i did it twice today), no Reverse Beat, but the timing is kinda strict.
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2013, 01:08:05 AM »
Damage gain is minimal, and it gets finicky on certain characters, plus it's unstable when gravity starts kicking in. If you want no reverse beats, 5B 2C or 5B 2C xx 4C is rep to use. You -can- use 2C 4C, possibly as a way to fuck up mash-to-reduce-damage timings, but there are enough other, more stable reps that 2C 4C isn't really something to worry about.

Only time I'd personally do a rep starting with 2C is to set up half momiji, since I find 2C 5C xx 2C easier than 4C 2C 2A(whiff) 5C 2C.

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 07:11:26 AM »
Anybody here has the Frame data?, i'm trying to see some ways to do pressure, but i need to know which normals and specials are safe and better for pressure.
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Offline Sashi

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2013, 10:30:41 AM »
You can use mauve's framedisplay. Won't tell you the frames on block, though. I'm sure 5[B] is positive on block, but I doubt any other normal is. Just do whatever into 5A whiff or 236C.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 10:36:04 AM by Sashi »
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 07:42:50 PM »
BE5b is plus, 236C is plus (but easily shielded and frame adv is distance dependent, though you get a free throw if c-moon shields), tk flameribbons are nuts plus, pillars are plus when spaced right.

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2013, 12:00:25 PM »
2A                      -1
5A                     +2
5B                      -1
BE5B                  +3
5B 5A (whiff)       +-0
2/5/4C 5A (whiff) +3
tk.236A              +17  :fap:
tk.236B              +8
214A                  +-0 (provided last pillar hits)
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2013, 04:58:11 PM »
2A                      -1
5A                     +2
5B                      -1
BE5B                  +3
5B 5A (whiff)       +-0
2/5/4C 5A (whiff) +3
tk.236A              +17  :fap:
tk.236B              +8
214A                  +-0 (provided last pillar hits)

Is 214A for charged or normal pillar? If that's for normal, that's way better than I thought, damn.

Offline Funky-kun

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Re: MBAACC C-VAkiha Thread
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2013, 11:36:31 PM »
It's for normal. Charged is a lot of +frames if the last pillar hits.
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