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Author Topic: [MBAACC] C-urry Discussion Thread  (Read 22159 times)

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Offline COD3player

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[MBAACC] C-urry Discussion Thread
« on: August 04, 2010, 03:02:25 PM »
Well, with CC now out in arcades, here are the list of known changes so far:

C-Ciel:
AD -Easier to connect the last hit
236A - Stronger
J22AB - Start up slower
4B Follow Up - Vector weaker
236C - Start up slower
623C - Prorate and vector weaker
4C - Hitbox, untechtime weaker
J2C - Recovery increased
5CC - Delay between the two attacks is less
5C - Damage down
Air Somer - Movement restricted after use
Air B Somer - Damage down
2B - Recovery increased

The list will be updated as more information is revealed or if there are any inaccuracies. Discuss.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 04:42:00 PM by Steins;Date »
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Re: MBAACC Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 01:16:53 PM »
Match vids for discussion:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11625002 ~10:00 in

~11:10 - 236C is supposed to have more startup but it looks the same. It could just be the video though.

~11:33 - Does 236A look stronger to you? I sure as hell don't think so. :| It does look a little faster but I still think its applications are practically nonexistant.

~12:13 - Does j.2C looks like it has more recovery? It seems to have slightly more from what I can tell.

~12:54 - Air throw now retains momentum?

~13:16 - tk 623C combo does roughly 4.5K from 2A. This is more or less the same (?).

~13:51 - j.236B off fuzzy guard apparently works on Sion? I remember that it didn't work on her before but I could be wrong, and it definitely was not universal. If it's universal now, that would be really nice.

I didn't really think the player was all that good, he dropped WAY too many combos going into the last round.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11635064

1:57-4:15

~2:18 - Does not punish drill with 236C even though it would have been safe to.

~3:19 - We see another 236C used, but in a combo. It's supposed to have increased startup, but it REALLY looks the same to me. The opponent remains frozen on the super startup, and not long after that they start getting hit almost immediately.

This player wasn't too impressive either. Neutral game was pretty lacking and ate way too many CHs in the first round. He should have used knives more liberally to tag Wara's big hitboxes.

6:17-10:10

~7:36 - Increased 2B recovery?

~7:52 - 5CC into 236B~B looks almost airtight now. I don't remember it being like this before.

~9:08 - 4.1K meterless combo off j.B? More or less than before?

~9:37-end - I pretty much just shook my head. Is this all really a legit blockstring? I counted at least 11 dashes back in. And the Ciel player just froze up. :\ *sigh*

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11636977

6:09 - 8:00
~7:32 - Doesn't followup the knives with 623C

~7:34 - Doesn't do the tk 623C corner combo even though he has TONS of meter to spend at this point.

~7:52 - lol two j.2C in the same string.

There wasn't really much to say about this match tbh.

Overall, it doesn't seem like the changes affect C-Ciel's game too badly. Although no one has used it yet, I'm still kinda wondering if it's still possible to double jump after air flash kicks. Nobody teched her air throws either so I'm guessing they kept that change from PS2. Other than that I suppose let's see how she fares in future matches or if the changes are more apparent. 236C still looks the same to me.
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Offline COD3player

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2010, 10:24:38 PM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11662927
First match and two matches after that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stlvWQyHm1w

@2:02 and 3:37: For the first time we see 236C used outside of a combo, and it STILL looks the same to me. :psyduck:
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2010, 12:21:33 PM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13100819 @john3:16

Spreading misinformation is great, ain't it? I've skimmed through a few jp bbs's and pretty much everyone has either stated that double somer combos were no longer doable or under the impression of that. You can even see in the comments that a couple of ppl are questioning this. Knew there was something funny about 'restricted' wording.  ::)

(:XFingers: for F-ciel being able to do this still)
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 09:10:48 PM »
I KNEW the changes list here on the boards was really iffy from the get-go. In C's case, a LOT of the changes didn't even look like they were implemented because the damn thing never distinguished what changes were ver.A -> PS2 and PS2 -> CC. So this clears up that whole issue about movement being "restricted" after air flash kicks.

uuuuuuuuuuugh
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Offline Curbeh

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2010, 09:49:05 AM »
Restricted merely means that length of time that it takes before you can move is longer. All changes are PS2 to CC, as it says on the top of the list.
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2010, 10:29:20 AM »
Yeah, but everyone and their mom was convinced otherwise (referring to jp bbs's). Including myself, formally believing that "restricted" =/= completely removed. Whatever, I'm getting tight about a game I can't even touch lol. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this restriction is applied to getting the jump cancel on hit only (?). The wording can mean anything and iirc nothing is specified on any of the change lists outside just the words "movement restricted" (restricted in what way though?)
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Curbeh

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2010, 10:51:23 AM »
In terms of movement, as it says.
If it was anything else do you think you could still do 22X-> airgrab? The nerf is just to discourage spacing with it.
What specifically I don't know, its not specified on the change list. All I know is that number of things that you can do after an air somer has been limited.
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Offline COD3player

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2010, 04:46:46 PM »
Well I suppose that clears up some things. When you hear "restricted" it's only logical to think along the lines of removed completely. It's not like she had too many options after performing the move in the first place. She could either jump again (if she hadn't used her double jump) or perform the air throw. That's more or less it. So if I'm understanding it correctly, the restriction is somewhere along the lines of having a larger window of where she can't perform any actions? Or as stated earlier, the jump cancel afterward only applies on hit? I dunno, but wtf. It's just EXTREMELY vague.
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Offline Curbeh

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 09:05:14 PM »
If it was gone anyone would just say eliminated...
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2011, 11:56:31 AM »
My arcade just got MBAACC, and my main has been C-Ciel since Act Cadenza.

I don't have video footage working with the machine for a direct feed yet, but I'm working on it.

So, question is. Anybody want me to try some stuff out and see what the changes are?

Tbh, I'm mostly coming from an Act Cadenza PoV, as I didn't get too into Actress Again (It wasn't that popular in the area). I played it for awhile, but everyone was still playing ACb at the arcade, so I didn't get deep into it. Since we've gotten AACC I've been working on the new combo changes, (from ACb -> AACC). I won't be able to notice things like "X comes out slower," but I can let you know if certain combos connect differently. Again, since I'm coming from ACb -> AACC, I won't see the changes you guys see, so if you have suggestions and you want me to try it out, post here and I'll let you know what I come up with.

I'll also let you know when I get the direct feed working.

P.S. As far as my skill level is concerned, I've been working on 5CC 214[A] combos lately; I'm going to start working on tk236 combos tonight. So I'm quite behind most of you.
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Offline Zaelar

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 01:00:51 AM »
tk236 combos are ahead of me too.

Offline Id_asz

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2011, 12:48:59 AM »
I think that EX Halo does less damage now on a counter hit. I was playing yesterday and only did about 1400 dmg on Hisui which doesn't seem right. Even if my opponent mashed to reduce damage on every hit, and even if I was in the highest guts bracket of her health, 1400 seems way too low (all of the damage was EX Halo, I didn't combo into it).

I'll test this out later in a more controlled setting.
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Offline Id_asz

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 11:43:39 AM »
Tested it against the computer.

Step 1: Hit Nero Chaos at full health with an EX Halo. 2600~ dmg.
Step 2: Hit Nero while he was attacking at full health with an EX Halo. 2600~ dmg.

Nero at full health has 0.9 guts rating, which is the same as Hisui at her lowest guts rating.

Could a full mash bring the damage down from 2600 to 1400? I forgot how much you could reduce with a full mash, but I thought it was reducing by like 25%, not 50%.

EDIT: I tested it on PS2 AA, and it would only lower it down to about 2000 with a full mash. something is off, I'll try and figure out what.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 11:54:32 PM by Id_asz »
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Offline Pincher

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2011, 05:57:23 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYripTDcrnI#t=9m29s
I know this combo is completely unorthodox, but at the 2nd j623 you guys think it would be possible to catch them and continue the combo?
*I also know almost nothing about ciel.  ;D
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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 08:12:32 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYripTDcrnI#t=9m29s
I know this combo is completely unorthodox, but at the 2nd j623 you guys think it would be possible to catch them and continue the combo?
*I also know almost nothing about ciel.  ;D


It's a setup for a safe/heat or spacing, if all the hits of the EX knife in the air connected the opponent would slam into the other wall.

Damage wise this might not be worth it, but considering her life lead and the fact that ries moves slow compared to her and has to deal with Ciel's knives, trying to force a gap was a pretty smart decision
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Offline Exciel

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2011, 10:41:50 PM »
As of 1.05 she can combo after ex 236C like old times, but damage sucks. :toot:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14625258 16:26

Offline Id_asz

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 01:38:26 PM »
Looks like TK623 combo properties have changed. Everytime I try, the opponent floats up during the 623C. idk if it's just on floaty characters or what, though. I'll test some more stuff.

EDIT: It seems like there's some property that's making the last hit of the TK623B bounce my opponent off the ground, which carries the momentum over to the 623C.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 12:10:31 AM by Id_asz »
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Offline Cristu

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 04:41:17 PM »
Some new stuff in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UKccKFXSA4
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Offline Kirah

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 08:26:18 PM »

Offline COD3player

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2012, 11:07:44 PM »
Man is this thread old. Started 8/4/2010? I feel like I should start a new thread but at the same time I don't know if I should. I guess it all depends on what people would like. This thread was originally created when the first revision of CC came out.

For now, I'm going to post the transcript of the video I did. Familiar C-Ciel users probably won't need to watch or read this, so this is geared mainly towards the newer players. Link will be cross-posted in video thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-nDMXkwzeg

AT = air throw
(x) = the move must hit X number of times

- 2AA 2B 4C 2C 5C j.BC dj.BC j.22B AT
Just a really basic combo showcasing that 5C can chain into other normals. This works on crouchers too.

- 2AA 2B 4C 5CC 214[A] dash j.BC dj.BC j.22B AT
This combo's utilization is best seen when you attempt a 5A 4C anti-jump but the opponent gets hit on the ground instead.

- 2AA 2B 3B(1) 5CC 214[A] 2C 5C 2B j.BC dj.BC J.22B AT
C-Ciel's true BnB in MBAA. You need to semi charge the 5C and hold the button down a little bit but not hold it to the point where it's fully charged.

- 2AA 2B 5B 3B 5C 236C 5B 5C j.BC dj.BC J.22B AT
This combo simly showcases that it is possible to combo from 236C again just like old times. You can use this if you punish a heat activiation midscreen since the 236C will

allow their meter to drain while it hits them.

- AT j.236B 4C j.BC dj.BC J.22B AT
Basic combo off raw air throw. If 4C knocks them too high, replace it with 5C.

- (vs crouch) 2AA 2B 3B(2) 5CC 2C 5C 4C j.CB dj.BC J.22B AT
Against crouchers, you don't need to use 214[A], which makes combos from a 2A starter a breeze.

- (vs crouch) 2AA 2B 3B(2) 5CC 2C j.236B 5B 4B 236B
Same combo that ends in a hard knockdown and safe jump. You don't need to use the j.236B. Just go into 4B after the 2C pickup and it works all the same.

- 2AA 2B 3B 5C 6239C 4B 236B
A combo that also leads to a safe jump from 6239C

- 214B 4B 4B 623C j.A dj.BC J.22B AT
Learn to love this combo because it gives you good damage off a full set up knives. If by chance you're too far for 623C to connect, use 236C instead for a hard knockdown.

- (vs crouch) 4[ B ] 623[A] 236C 2C 4C j.BC dj.BC J.22B AT
A really simple combo off her standing overhead.

- 2AA 2B 3B(2) 5C 6239C j.BC dj.BC J.22B AT
C-Ciel's corner BnB that also does some pretty decent damage.

- 2AA 2B 3B(2) 5C 6239B j.623C j.BC dj.BC J.22B AT
Same as the above but use this when you're further away from the corner and you'll carry them all the way.

- 2AA 2B 3B(2) 5C 6239C 623C j.A dj.BC J.22B AT
If you're in the corner and have some meter to spare, this combo will carry them to the corner no problem.

- 2AA 2B 3B(2) 5C 6239C j.623C j.B dj.ABC AT
If you have 2 supers to spare, this combo packs a punch. Easily one of the more damaging C-Ciel corner combos.

-5B 3B(2) 5C 6239C 236C 41236C
Nothing other than a simple combo into her BHAD using MBAA mechanics. ;)
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Offline kikimaru024

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 05:23:33 AM »
New player here.

Would you guys recommend C-Ciel as a good starter character?
Also any tips on what I should be focusing on in training mode?

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 12:36:36 PM »
C-Ciel is a very good starting character since she is very well-rounded and has a lot of tools at her disposal. There are a fair number of intricacies to know about her as well but I would worry about those later on.

In training mode I would focus on the following:

- Move list. Know what all her normals, command normals, and specials, and supers look like. This may be fairly daunting for a new player since C-Ciel probably has the most moves in the game, not all of which are useful sadly. Just heads up, I would stray away from using 236A and 236[ B ].

- Movement. Get accustomed to how she moves. She has a ground dash that is very low to the ground which can go under moves that other characters can't. Get accustomed to her air dashes as well, forward and backward.

- Combos. VERY important. If you're new to the game, I would strongly recommend reading this article first to understand how combos work in the game. The video in my last post is geared towards newer players and the majority of them are simple enough to the point where they could be included in a guide book.

This is some very general advice but you gotta start somewhere. Back when MBAA on PS2 was that standard, I was in the process of writing a starter's guide for C-Ciel but never got around to finishing it. It's a tad out of date but at the same time C-Ciel didn't receive sweeping changes in the transition to 1.07.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I like it when threads I've started get a boost of activity. :psyduck:
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 01:02:49 PM by Steins;Date »
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Offline DarkLeviathan

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2012, 02:18:42 PM »
New player here.

Would you guys recommend C-Ciel as a good starter character?
Also any tips on what I should be focusing on in training mode?

I also started using C-Ciel as a beginner character, and I feel like she was definitely an approachable character to use.

Some other things that might be useful to know:

-Don't be afraid to use EX Hiero (236C) but don't abuse it (like I do). It's very punishable.
-She's a jack of all trades, so don't expect her to have amazing pressure, mixups, etc, but she is versatile.
-I would also recommend not using 236B~C (the aerial command grab, not sure if I did the notation correctly)


I'm still learning myself, so anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I'm trying to figure out what blockstrings I can use safely against respecting opponents. I'll be watching videos to try to catch some things on my own, but some general tips would be much appreciated.

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Re: [MBAACC] Crescent Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 11:50:12 PM »
Yes, EX Hiero aka EX Halo/7th is still by far one of the best moves in the game, though extremely punishable most of the time. As I like to say, it's a move you would expect only a KoF boss to have.

As for blockstrings, that's a really expansive topic and not something I personally can cover on my own simply because the chaining system in this game is so free-form which allows for hundreds of variations.

Here are some general pointers or things to keep in mind for blockstrings:
- 3B is a great stagger tool and keeps you relatively close to the opponent. Both hits must be shielded low.

- 5C can be charged, which also means it can be semi-charged. Use a full charge to eat away at their guard meter or a semi-charge to discourage counter-poking. This attack also moves you forward. This move can be chained into other moves which is a really nice property they introduced back in MBAA. Be aware though that this will trip crouching opponents so hit 5C again to get the 2nd part and go for a combo.

- 5CC is completely safe due to the lack of bara cancels (if you played MBAC). It can be special and super cancelled even on whiff. If they're cornered, a blocked 5CC puts you at just the right range to do another 5C. If they stick a move out, go for the full 5CC.

- 5B is another great stagger tool and must be shielded high in spite of the fact that it hits low. Like 5C, this move also trips crouchers so confirming off it can be tricky. If you haven't used them yet, use 2C or 4C to confirm off a 5B that trips them.
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