Author Topic: MBAA : Ciel General Discussion Thread (Read 61591 times)

Chie Satonaka · « **Reply #100 on:** October 18, 2008, 01:45:30 PM »

Quote from: ZARtacus! on October 18, 2008, 01:13:14 PM

yeah so, H-CL has infinite variation wheeeee

5a>6a>6a>BE4B [repeat]

dear ecole/typemoon/frenchbread/WHOEVER,

someone fix BE4B

No fucking way. No FUCKING WAY.

SHITS MAD AWESUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As awesome as having AIDS.

COD3player · « **Reply #101 on:** October 18, 2008, 06:42:07 PM »

Oh man, he's right about this being an infinite.

NO196
The 6AAA>[4B] looping starts at 7:24. The player didn't use the infinite but he did a number of reps and it's clear that it's an infinite due to the launch properties.

AkiraTheMastodon · « **Reply #102 on:** October 19, 2008, 06:02:28 AM »

F Ciel is uh...yeah.

63214 is the dashing grab
63214A will have her dash up, then do a normal throw
63214B is a slower startup, but she will grab them, then fling them into the wall. (Looks like it can be followed up)
63214C is a EX, looks to be same speed as her 63214A, but when she grabs them she will go high in the air and spin several times before throwing them. (Height is about the same as you would be from a BnB leading to an Aerial.) Damage ranges from about 2.5k-3k, at the end you can do whatever you normally can off a normal bnb into aerial -> airthrow.
You can use 63214A and C as bnb enders if you choose to trip them with 2C.
j.214C is WAY WAY different
Ciel will throw out a black key, when it touches the ground large black waves will spread outward in one direction
If your opponent is on the ground and is hit by the key, or the waves it'll stun them momentarily and you can dash up and go fuck with them
However, if you do it in the air the effect is the same as a Vakiha j.C, it'll slam them to the ground and you can otg them if you want.
22B j.214C will work
If you whiff a j.214C, it looks like it's the same as the way her new j.214A works

236A can be cancelled to an EX
623C will have her go through the enemy at a fast speed, on hit or block.

If you do a BnB, you can end it in different ways, so far I've tried
236A to trip them and have them in front of me
63214A to end it with a ground throw
or for aerials, end with an airthrow, or j.22B j.214C

If you aren't close enough to use 4C to get them in the air after a 2C, you can do 3C instead

didn't try much else today

Pfhor · « **Reply #103 on:** October 19, 2008, 09:17:17 AM »

Her charge 4b should be a techable groundslam or at the very least an untechable groundbounce so at least it isn't isn't an infinite.

COD3player · « **Reply #104 on:** October 20, 2008, 11:01:42 AM »

Updated my last post in the video thread.

Zaelar · « **Reply #105 on:** October 21, 2008, 01:03:44 AM »

On crouchers 5cc, 2c5c air works easily on everyone now.

AkiraTheMastodon · « **Reply #106 on:** October 26, 2008, 06:11:19 PM »

k so after I fought an F Ciel on patched MBAA...

what the F Ciel would do for bnbs was like, he'd do 236A mid-bnb that would trip them after a series of normals, but then he would catch them again and go into an aerial. I ate like 4.4k once

he'd pretty much do BE4B or BE3C and then if you were blocking standing up too long, he'd 236A trip you and go into a OTG.
It looks like 236C can "pick up" the opponent from an OTG? I'm unsure about this one, but if it can...OTG string then 236C for a wallslam and slight extra damage
it looks like angled black keys have less recovery time, or you can follow it up or something
soon as he did a 214B, he'd be able to do 214C almost immediately after

i think maybe F Ciel's 63214 might have been sped up a little, not really sure on that either

ElderGOD · « **Reply #107 on:** November 11, 2008, 05:46:16 AM »

Sorry guys I can't infinite consistently

Chie Satonaka · « **Reply #108 on:** November 24, 2008, 02:27:48 PM »

Not sure if this has been posted, but...

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm5336009

AkiraTheMastodon · « **Reply #109 on:** November 24, 2008, 11:04:20 PM »

what the FUCK?
shit i want that kind of meter

okuhoshi · « **Reply #110 on:** December 12, 2008, 05:40:30 PM »

any FM vids lately ?

Chie Satonaka · « **Reply #111 on:** December 13, 2008, 07:11:33 AM »

Quote from: okuhoshi on December 12, 2008, 05:40:30 PM

any FM vids lately ?

fCiel exist?

Chie Satonaka · « **Reply #112 on:** December 14, 2008, 05:31:19 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwyE6mCS9B0&feature=related (2nd match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMD7ikowgz8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2w2rBQD1VQ&feature=related (2nd match I believe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYcTWRPCV60&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmvHN6dVY3c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G28U4w7xzJE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RscEwxlLwI&feature=related

Possibly the best display of Ciel I've seen since this game has been out. Outside of her damage being low she looks pretty decent. Old vids are old but w/e.

Chie Satonaka · « **Reply #113 on:** December 25, 2008, 07:41:53 AM »

http://blog-imgs-27.fc2.com/t/o/k/tokkablog/play.html?id=sm5634121

214B>4A>4A xx 623C for 6.1K

COD3player · « **Reply #114 on:** March 20, 2009, 02:21:51 AM »

So I've finally gotten the chance to play MBAA ver.A. My detailed writeup is in the new thread, which might get merged with this one. We'll see.

For all those moves that are listed as "same as MBAC" I might just copy the descriptions out of my incomplete faq (which I will delete very soon) just so it doesn't look so redundant.

Van_Artic · « **Reply #115 on:** August 21, 2009, 02:28:23 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvEKv2LfeCw

i was practicing like usual, until this happens

how the fuck does she pull out almost 9k damage? it's corner only in the end, good luck doing that in a serious match

COD3player · « **Reply #116 on:** September 01, 2009, 03:35:49 AM »

So, MBAA has been out for almost 2 weeks. Let's get some discussion rolling for Ciel. If you have style specific questions ask them in here or their respective threads. Strategies pertaining to a particular style can be posted here but they should be referenced in their respective guide threads. I know there's no guide for Half Moon yet but I intend to write one and it shouldn't take me too long since I can copy over whatever information in the Crescent guide that also applies to Half.

So far, it seems that Ciel's only change in the PS2 port is that her air throw in all styles is untechable. While this may seem like a very good change, it really isn't as good as some make it out to be. Like most untechable air throws, she ends up pretty far from the opponent. You can still perform an air special while falling but it occurs REALLY late and by the time you reach the ground, the opponent has already recovered from the air throw. It seems that the best way to get oki now is to use 4B>236B or 2C>2A (Crescent and Half only). While these enders do significantly less damage than going into an air string, you are in a much better position to apply oki. The general tradeoff in MBAA seems to be more damage for less oki vs less damage for better oki. Unlike in MBAC where most characters could do big damage and get really good oki.

So for styles, what are your thoughts? imo C is quite possibly her most versatile (not saying it's the best) style since she still has her long range game and her 236C for punishing. C can also do quite a bit of damage. I'd say the only downside to C is that since it's most like her MBAC incarnation, it's quite possibly the style that most people would be accustomed to fighting. It'll be a style where you really need to pull some "outside the box" stunts for great success. F is better than H imo. F does WAY more damage for less effort and a much safer and more reliable way to combo off her [4B] overhead. F also has some really mean frame traps and staggers and it's the only style of the 3 where you can score a knockdown (using j.214C) without having to sacrifice damage. The biggest obstacle is probably understanding the mechanics behind F since it has a lot of different rules and restrictions than the other 2. F's long range game isn't as strong as C's, but its mid-range game is probably better. H has some interesting moves to re-apply pressure, but her damage output is embarrassingly low for her better combos given the amount of effort you have to put into them. imo H doesn't seem to benefit Ciel because of its meter management. There just never feels like there's enough meter to go around. H's meter maxes out at 200 and once you reach Max mode, your meter continuously drains until it reaches 0% again. If you get hit, you auto spark and lose ALL your meter. This can become a real problem since you will have less opportunities to pull a clutch 236C for punishing. On top of that, her 623C is the version from MBAC (ie. it's not very useful). I really want to know why the Japanese consider F to be a weaker style for her than H.

Exciel · « **Reply #117 on:** September 07, 2009, 07:35:40 PM »

I mained Ciel back in MBAC and all three Ciels in here feel like they've been adjusted an incredible amount. Yet that hasn't proved to be a problem as I've been able to adjust as well, making F-Ciel my initial main. Ciel's one of the few who I enjoy using with in all three styles. Here's my thoughts on them.

Crescent

While this is generally the "MBAC" style, her combos differ quite a bit from MBAC's. Can't shield cancel 5CC anymore, 236C no longer launches, no more 6AAA, etc. Probably the style I use the least as I can't use her like I did in MBAC, but she has a few new toys to make her fun using like the hidden keys and aerial sinkers.

Half

For a while I was only playing H-Ciel for some reason. Since she's limited with meter I don't even bother with 236C for her. The only really good thing about H-Ciel that I like is her whatever>5A>6AA>BE4B>2C>tk2369B>4B>236B combo doing decent damage with oki. Her 63214x and 236x series all seem decent for pressure but I can't help but feel they're shield bait.

Full

And here we go, in my opinion the coolest character in the game and what I believe to be the most diverse Ciel style. I'm so fascinated by everything F-Ciel can do. Yeah, she loses 214C and 236C, but oh well, she still has 22C for reversal and 236C has decent range/comes out pretty fast. 236A's a great low poke that you can even follow up with 63214A/C for extra damage if necessary. 236B on counter hit can follow into dash>2C with whatever follow-up desired. Flicker punch combos deal huge damage and can often be done on anywhere on the screen. My favorite thing about them though is that they can be special canceled on hit or whiff into 63214C and will act as either a command dash or grab with a clash frame, though at the cost of 100% MC. 5[C] rapes aerial jump ins and can combo into 236A loop. 3[C] is just amazing, I don't even need to get into it, overhead, can cancel into anything, etc. And the other really special ace for pressuring is her j214C. You can even do it off a whiffed/blocked 22A reversal to keep yourself safe and go on the pressure. In general F-Ciel's game rules the corner with constant pressure strings using all her new weapons to assist in mixups and frametraps. Outside of that though I don't see her with very much defensive opportunities with only shields and somer. Her key throws don't seem all that useful to me, though the 214C does leave them in oki and can special cancel.

COD3player · « **Reply #118 on:** September 07, 2009, 11:21:28 PM »

C can do some considerable damage as well. Granted, she has no way to keep the high damage and score an untechable knockdown at the same time. But with all her command normals, it feels easier to apply pressure considering how late you can cancel her moves.

F is the only style of the 3 where you can get both high damage and untechable knockdown. It's also the only style where you can get a reliable and safe high damage combo from her 4[ B ] overhead which is actually pretty fast now. The thing with F though, is that she doesn't really have any safe ways to charge the meter. The best I could think of is probably 236C, but that requires meter and kinda defeats the purpose because you're trying to build as much meter as you can. 236C doesn't really have any invincibility whatsoever either. You can do 63214B but it's probably the most vulnerable of the 3 command throws. So yeah, I think she's kinda gimped in meter building for F, having to build meter the old fashioned way. And you can't activate Heat if things get too rough.

Ultima66 · « **Reply #119 on:** September 07, 2009, 11:30:53 PM »

Most F chars can't charge any real amount of meter from any sort of setup, and a lot of times you wouldn't want to anyways. The lack of being able to heat in F is something I noticed as a huge pain the day I first played MBAA. It's one of the biggest limiting factors of any F character, and to an extent H character, though those build meter fast.

Also you can't do 236C into charge, because after doing an EX/Arc Drive/whatever, meter charge builds REALLY slowly. I haven't figured out exactly when it starts building fast again, but it's either time-based or until a player gets hit by something.

COD3player · « **Reply #120 on:** September 07, 2009, 11:49:26 PM »

F characters like W. Len, Ryougi, and Ries all have safe ways to charge their meter. W.Len has the plants, and Ryougi and Ries can end their air combos with a wall slam, giving them ample time to charge meter. Even F-Nanaya can safely charge after his 214B. I suppose not being able to safely charge meter feels like somewhat of a hindrance to Ciel since her supers are pretty good, namely j.214C. I didn't notice that there's a charge penalty after using supers, but I guess that means 236C is even less useful, if not completely useless, for charging.

BurstOfAnger · « **Reply #121 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:47:41 AM »

Quote from: Azure Macabre on September 07, 2009, 11:49:26 PM

F characters like W. Len, Ryougi, and Ries all have safe ways to charge their meter. W.Len has the plants, and Ryougi and Ries can end their air combos with a wall slam, giving them ample time to charge meter. Even F-Nanaya can safely charge after his 214B. I suppose not being able to safely charge meter feels like somewhat of a hindrance to Ciel since her supers are pretty good, namely j.214C. I didn't notice that there's a charge penalty after using supers, but I guess that means 236C is even less useful, if not completely useless, for charging.

Please explain. Perhaps put it in the system mechanics section as it is, after all, a system mechanic.

COD3player · « **Reply #122 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:52:27 AM »

You mean the charging penalty after using supers? I would, but I'm still unaware of all the specifics. If anything, it's kinda like Guilty Gear's tension penalties that go into effect after using an attack that consumes your tension meter. Basically after using an attack that consumes meter, the rate at which you gain meter is reduced for a certain period of time.

Rayza · « **Reply #123 on:** September 12, 2009, 05:25:07 AM »

So I was messing around today, and found that doing j.bc ad.a dj.bc 22b 6e works pretty well as an air combo, does a little bit more damage (like 30-50dmg from what I can tell) and also looks really cool! (most important part)

COD3player · « **Reply #124 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:10:41 PM »

lol I actually tried that out when I was fiddling around with Half. When I was experimenting, j.BCA did the exact same damage overall as j.BC ad.A. There's probably some other stuff you do with the ad.

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Author Topic: MBAA : Ciel General Discussion Thread (Read 61591 times)