Messages

1

Michael Roa Valdamjong / Re: F-Roa Match-Up & Strat Thread

« on: October 31, 2009, 10:18:41 PM »

*credit given to PacStrife where it is due (re-linked Nico vids and re-iterated info)

F-Roa Vids

YouTube Collection
*I will try and gather all that I come across on YouTube into a playlist

Nico

vs F-Wara
vs Ciel

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Michael Roa Valdamjong / F-Roa Match-Up & Strat Thread

« on: October 31, 2009, 09:19:47 PM »

[Basic Strat]

If F-Roa out-ranges his opponent, he has the option of using his zoning tools to play it cool until an opportunity for offense arises:

1. He lands a 214 as aa into untechable knockdown
2. He lands a 214 vs a grounded opp into another 214 into untechable knockdown
3. He lands a CH or forces you to block a j.A/B/[C]
4. He forces you to block a 214/236/TK236
5. He anti-airs you with 623A into untechable knockdown



If F-Roa is on the other end of the spectrum, however, he has to know his opponent's openings so that he can get inside and work pressure just like everyone else.
*more to come on this when those match-ups are discovered (most people, from what I have seen, just float around in the air anyway and try to rush you down...outside of Nero and W.Len at least)

==1st character to tackle:  Sion Eltnam Atlasia =====
(will add info for and post example vids later)

Characters w/ Projectiles and Long-Range Normals (horizontal threat outside of dash-up, etc)
*long-range normals meaning if they can hit you out of start-up of 214A/B w/o moving

Characters w/ Above Average Air Mobility (e.g., double air dash, dive kicks)

Characters w/ Unique Mobility Options (e.g., teleports, armor, warp dashes)

Everyone Else

*notate who has command throws
**notate who has respectable reversal options (e.g., on wake-up)

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Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: MBAA Nero

« on: October 31, 2009, 09:03:39 PM »

Thank you very much. I am having the hardest time keeping my opponents from buzzing over and around my head, so I am really focusing on breaking that annoyingly abusive strat. Specifically, the chick with the red hair and 2 air dashes, x-ups, and dumb front/back/top/bottom hit-boxes on her air 'normals'...

4

Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: MBAA Nero

« on: October 31, 2009, 05:38:05 PM »

Hi, I have a few questions and don't expect anyone to answer them all. This is actually just my method of approaching fighters given my play-style.

I am almost certain that Nero is a good character of choice for me, so...

1. In guarding his front...

-how does Nero keep opponents from approaching him directly via dash up (e.g., notable normals and specials/mobility etc)?

2. In guarding his head...

-how does Nero keep opponents from approaching him from the air (via IAD, sj'ing, etc)?

3. On defense...

-what are some of his unique options of breaking pressure (whether it be taking the offensive or returning the match to neutral)?

4. On offense...

-Nero does not have the health lead: how does he go about establishing his offense? what are his mix-ups and general windows of attack?

5. What is Nero's most efficient range (close/mid/far)?

6. Which characters deserve special mention with match-ups in mind (who has to be handled especially differently)?

**I am posting this now with intentions to return and continue to read up and apply answers on my own, but if discussion is sparked in someone, please feel free.

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Michael Roa Valdamjong / Re: FULL Roa

« on: October 31, 2009, 11:39:41 AM »

Using the 1st Nico vid linked by PacStrife, I'm going to do a vid analysis to start off the Strat discussion.

Nico: F-Wara vs F-Roa Re-linked
*I can see that the Wara player is Ryu, but no identification for the Roa =(

-notice that the F-Roa has pretty good movement overall
-nice use of shielding

Ground Game

-remember to find good moments to charge your meter
-214
...this F-Roa appears to move in for the oki after landing 1 vs an airborne opp
-5A as aa (weak imo)
-236 as aa


Air Game

...sj uf, j.A, dj ub, (falling) j.B

j.A...good for moving forward when you expect a quick collision or are trying to move in from the air and expecting an air-2-air

j.B...looks nice as a keepaway, air zoning tool (e.g., when you lose height advantage; when jumping up and under someone; when falling from your jump to thwart IAD in, etc.)

j.C...when somewhat close and with height advantage

Offense/Pressure Strings

5A/2A > 5B...mix-up after 5B
5C (1st hit blocked) > 236B...
2A...into itself or used in stalls
j.A...multiple overhead attempts after IAD
236B > 2A...
5C > 6C > 214A...
*tried to get fancy with the 236{B} dash through, but it is just too easy to spot and interrupt when empty
(after successful air throw) dash up, 214B

Combos

(after air CH) 2C > 6C > jc...
(after air CH) 5A/2A > 5C (1hit) > jc...
(corner reset) regular ac into 236 ender, tech trap into 214C
(after CH 214 as aa) he tried to go right into combo...sj j.A etc
(after air CH) 2C > 6C > 236 > jc...
5C > 6C > 214A > 6C > 214A > (otg) 2A*3~4 > 5B > 2B

Oki

regular j/sj over, air dash b...
214
IAD mix-up (e.g., IAD empty, land, 2A and etc)
dash up 5A

Misc

(vs grounded) IAD, j.A, j.A, dj, j.C ?

___________________

This F-Roa's apparent strengths:

-Placement/Timing of Air Normals in Air2Air
-Pressure Strings and Stalls/Dash-ups
-Shielding and Counter Shielding
-214 hit confirms
-Overall movement patterns

F-Roa's general weakness: lack of range and notable speed of start-up on ground and air normals/specials outside of 214 (which he has to place well in order to prevent getting dashed on)...

F-Roa's general strengths: 214, 236, + fr adv of normals

Up close, ALL of Roa's normals are really good. He gets mix-up off of any blocked normal
-dash up
-214
-forward moving attack
-shield counter
-IAD
-etc

--------------------

I really don't like to fish air2air for CH as it feels almost luck based with F-Roa. You have to take timing, distance, and height into consideration and he is still likely to be beat out by faster, larger hitboxes. F-Roa on offense is a monster. Seasoned players will likely get IBs from 214 loops, so stalls/slight changes in timing of attacks are just as good with F-Roa as any other.

In order to start offense, F-Roa really just needs you to block one 214. If he can place you with a 214, he can dash up into 214 pressure and mix-ups. I believe F-Roa should be persistent about placing 214 as he knows where his opponent is at this point.

If I am F-Roa and you are Wara, for example, I know that if I get you to block a 214, I get to control a portion of forward space. At the same time, I know that you have a gdlk normal that can extend beyond my 214A, a f dash that takes you airborne to where you quickly cancel into another dash, and that you have a teleport. F-Roa needs to know which techniques/methods his opponents have for moving forward if he is trying to zone.

But it appears MB favors rushdown ^_^ Which F-Roa is pretty good at if you can exercise certain fundamentals well.

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Michael Roa Valdamjong / Re: FULL Roa

« on: October 30, 2009, 01:09:50 PM »

@Irysa: that is a VERY good time for F-Roa to charge

PacStrife has already done an excellent run-down of F-Roa's moveset. Forgive some re-iteration, but I want to add attack values and a few extra notes as well.

Standing

A - 300
B - 670
C - 400/500
6C - 1000

Crouching

A - 300
B - 600
C - 900

Jumping

A - 250
B - 700
C - 1000
[C] - 1300

Normal Chains:

*weak always xx strong
**if same attack strength, normal always xx special normal

5A
...5A
...2A

2A
...5A
...2A

5B
...2B

5C (1st and 2nd hit)
...6C

Important: 5C does NOT cancel into 2C

**All normals are special/EX/and Arc Drive cancelable (even the 1st hit of 5C)
      
Specials

236

A/B - 1000
C - 2000 (2hits)

236 (air)

A - 800
B - 2100 (3hits)
C - 2400 (6hits)

623

A - 1500 (3hits)
B - 2300 (5hits)
C - 3150 (8hits)

214

A/B - 1000
C - 4500 (15hits)

41236 (Max) - 7000 (HEAVY damage scaling reduces it to ~3000)

41236 (Blood) - 8000 (HEAVY damage scaling reduces it to ~ 4000)

Last Arc - 5000

*214D - 500

Misc Facts:

*it takes ~11 214s to break guard
*if you use 236B in strings too close, you can be thrown before the hit is active
*more often than not, you are in range to land a 2A after forcing a blocked 236B
*j.C sometimes works as a x-up (really inconsistent though)
*getting CH in the corner typically leads to ~6k combos

I will revisit tomorrow more than likely with info on

> F-Roa on the ground
> F-Roa air-2-air
> F-Roa and Getting In
> F-Roa Blockstrings
> F-Roa and breaking pressure
> F-Roa and meter building
> F-Roa Combo Analysis and uses as far as wall-carry, oki, resets

===========================

Damage Figures for PacStrife's Notated Combos:
*see OP
**these don't take Reduction into account

1) ~4k (~6k unscaled)
2) ~4.5k (~8k)
3) ~5.5k (~10k)...I would change this one to ...214A>236B>jc...with the really easy inputs of this game, 6C>236A is too easily interpreted as 6C>623A  
4) ~5.3k (~11k)
5) ~3.5k (~7k)

If there are no posts following this one before then, I apologize in advance for the double post.

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Michael Roa Valdamjong / Re: The Official Roa Thread/Guide/Discussion/w/e

« on: October 30, 2009, 12:56:40 PM »

=( Dunno mayne, most closest I have seen so far is F vs C. I might have seen an F vs H as well.

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Michael Roa Valdamjong / Re: FULL Roa

« on: October 27, 2009, 02:18:03 AM »

Very good start with presenting info on F-Roa! I, too, am attracted to his character potential in this mode.

Anti-Air: F-Roa does VERY well at guarding his front from aerial attacks...the only real weak spot I am continually trying to keep my opp from attacking is the top of his head and general x-up range...outside of dashing forward, j.shield, j.block, j.throw, backdash, 2C evade, I want to test more with dpA or 236 TKs to fall with advantage or even pose possibe x-up...when F-Roa has EX, he does not have to work so hard to cover this area (214C)

Front: F-Roa is VERY strong with making an impression on this space. He can make forward movement a tax for most characters

Damage: As mentioned, F-Roa is able to net near 5k from a clean hit and near 2k potential mid-range from a successful 214B followed by 2 more

Trapping: F-Roa maximizes on apprehension...214 used as a poke puts him outside of the max poke range of most characters and lets him control a spot and guard movement...when the player is able to maximize on this fully, F-Roa could potentially provoke risky techniques/maneuvers from opps trying to avoid blocking (to stay is to have your guard broken)...movement alone is not what F-Roa looks for but special techniques that allow forward movement outside of regular dashing/jumping...movement is easy for F-Roa to stop, but preventing and allowing special moves is more advanced

I will continue to try and add to this character thread, but I have to go now

p.s. F-Roa does not need to CH fish air-2-air, as he is STRONG on the ground and can cover both at the same time...his movement is majorly an effort to gain better positioning and he WANTS his opp to take to the air...F-Roa has no real need to chase early, but he shoud be chased early to prevent his charging of meter for strong techniques

p.p.s. Nico vid #1 is very good foundation; #2 on the other hand really shows that an F-Roa w/o 214 is not an F-Roa...214 is not required in corner given 236, but greatly increases his mid-game when trying to place the opp

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: What's a sandoori?

« on: October 22, 2009, 08:34:06 PM »

LMAO TOOOOOO GOOOD SIR

TOOOO GOOD

This vid is now a favorite ^_^ Dude is playing Wara like Magneto XD (I wonder if that is the infamous Ryu I've seen so far beasting with Wara) I'm sold. Range AND mix-ups ftw

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Training Mode Inputs COLORS!

« on: October 22, 2009, 01:27:49 PM »

Goodness gracious. Good info as these colors basically remove the need to test j.cancels and etc for yourself since you can just hit the Dummy and observe the color for that specific attack.

On another note, not too sure what it means to land a 'damaging HIT', but that is more than likely mentioned further on in this mechanics section (I'm guessing CH).

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: Comparison of character hitboxes?

« on: October 22, 2009, 01:22:56 PM »

As posted above, I would agree that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is highly likely a duck. Lame, I know, but it isn't too hard to spot who is big and who is small and etc. Might even be a good idea to list char specific combos (if any) for your respective char in their respective thread.

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: MBAA Reverse Beats

« on: October 22, 2009, 01:11:28 PM »

Comboing & Canceling (vs linking) landing recovery into a weaker attack off of a j.normal makes perfect sense for the Reverse Beat to occur. On the other hand, the stuff posted back in Sep is  

"Learn your character" ftw

edit: Benefits of Reverse Beat...

-damage scaling of course
-meter gain?

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: How to reversal backdash like a pro

« on: October 22, 2009, 12:45:58 PM »

LOL I did that randomly when playing yesterday actually. I like the idea of using A+B to shortcut the reversal backdash:

[4]A+B, [A+B]

For those who don't want to risk letting go of 4, even if for a split second XD

edit: Odd, but it seems as if the game stores your reversal backdash longer if you do it via 4[4]...

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: What's a sandoori?

« on: October 22, 2009, 12:22:10 PM »

'Sandoori' seems to be a new term for the same types of mix-ups used in most games where you have untechable knockdown + airdash (not always necessary). Most players from Marvel/SF refer to this as the 'vortex'. Very good write-ups guys. Also, very useful links showing some examples of how it looks in MB. thnx

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Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: MBAA Nero

« on: October 22, 2009, 11:49:14 AM »

New to the Melty series guys and decided to start w/ Chaos. Expect me to ask questions and check more into this character myself (and, hopefully, contribute).

btw, I watched the vid of you playing during BBG (?) GenericSu and you looked pretty solid. Ciel seemed to be a tough one.

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Nero Chaos (Nrvnqsr) / Re: MBAA Framedata (63.0333%...)

« on: October 22, 2009, 11:40:49 AM »

Thnx for this info 

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Kohaku's Magical Garage / Re: How to reversal backdash like a pro

« on: October 20, 2009, 02:47:41 PM »

Thanks for this info! I am particularly new to Melty and was surprised to see how much backdash priority this game has. I would literally execute 2 qcbs and the game would give me a backdash. Reversal backdash done correctly (4[4] as you noted) will be a very strong defensive tool in this game. Especially if your character doesn't have airborne frames during such (I wonder if there is a list of who does?). If not, I could contribute in this fashion and post the result tomorrow more than likely.