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Author Topic: [MBAACC] F-Ciel Thread (Get that "furry" garbage outta here!)  (Read 34405 times)

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Offline Chie Satonaka

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2011, 12:13:53 PM »
That F-Ciel is none other than Ragu. Is he still the only player in Japan that knows how to use her? :V

I knew the color was familiar when I first saw it. It's good thing I know his name now  :toot:

<<<< Needs to not be such a JP scrub and learn dem moonrunes :(
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2011, 02:34:22 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJMtipVE57k&feature=feedu <--- F-Ciel @ 11:29

1st worthy note: One of the better F-Ciel users who knows what buttons to push when he's in close range. Also one of the few F-Ciel Ciel players I've seen who'll opt back to walking backwards to bait a poke and try and punish.
Dancing machine. Universal walk speed buff will make traditional footsies a bit more viable in MB. Improved walk speed in addition to various +f normals is going to make her in-game super annoying.

Quote
2nd worthy note: 623B OTG relaunches. I'm going to assume that this is her OTG relaunch across all 3 styles. I actually like that since it means she doesn't have to use meter to get optimal OTG damage now.
Yeah, landing random 236As at midscreen means something now. Rather than going for mixups post-flicker, f-ciel now has the option to shoot for more meter and try for better positioning w/ a 623B followup combo.

It looks like subbing in 623B/C relaunches post-236A down vs aoko/nero/len in the corner is a good idea too since they have funky wakeup times that make safejump tricky to setup (after 4b>236b otg).

Quote
3rd worthy note: Like Zar said earlier, her damage took a HUGE hit. Optimal (for now) double flicker and she barely breaks 4K? I know Arc's defense is far from terribly bad, but really?  :emo:
Gotta grind that new 2b>5[c]>delay 236A loop. The jp wiki says that 3 reps are doable. Most I've seen ever was two which dealt 5k in CC1. I intend to grind this nonetheless.

Overall dmg output in 1.07 looks suuuper-low. IMO it makes the full moon system a bit stronger (more chances to reach max) and waters down the threat of OP oki seen in the previous renditions. The focus now seems to be who can maintain a consistent neutral game.

Quote
Personal notes: Easily one of the better F-Ciel players I've seen since in a *long* while. I also liked the use of falling J.214C post airthrow, which it looks like you'll have to resort to more than ever against characters with faster wakeup speeds if you decide to keep the opponent in the corner.
landing then 236A is an option too that's not seen very often. Get them to respect this and you can start going in more w/ dash throw, dash 5A>4C, IAD, etc.

Speaking of respect: I was loving Ragu's 5B mash and getting the opponent to respect a 5C>2C string XD. I still wish he'd 2B and Hi Flicker more in neutral. His def and spacing has improved a lot though.

That F-Ciel is none other than Ragu. Is he still the only player in Japan that knows how to use her? :V
Someone needs to hit up TSA for that runback OR force GO1 and Leo to pick up the character.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 02:39:40 PM by Sakura Sena »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Chie Satonaka

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2011, 04:52:12 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJMtipVE57k&feature=feedu <--- F-Ciel @ 11:29

1st worthy note: One of the better F-Ciel users who knows what buttons to push when he's in close range. Also one of the few F-Ciel Ciel players I've seen who'll opt back to walking backwards to bait a poke and try and punish.
Dancing machine. Universal walk speed buff will make traditional footsies a bit more viable in MB. Improved walk speed in addition to various +f normals is going to make her in-game super annoying.

Yeah and her walk speed wasn't too shabby in comparison to the rest of the cast to begin with. I hope I see more Ciel players in general take advantage of her walk speed like he did in the video.

Quote
landing then 236A is an option too that's not seen very often. Get them to respect this and you can start going in more w/ dash throw, dash 5A>4C, IAD, etc.

I think now with her airthrow not being as good as PS2 where you could run whatever you wanted, you're going to see this being used a lot more against characters with average / slighter faster wakeup speed. Characters like Ries and Kouma are still going to recieve the worst of her post AT mixup game in the corner. Ryougi on the other hand.... :V

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Offline Shiki

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2011, 09:42:57 AM »

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2011, 02:29:06 PM »
looks like i need to get back in the lab

. . .
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline ShardZ

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2011, 05:29:11 AM »
Here's some F-Ciel changes I noticed in FrameDisplay:

+- 2C active frames changed from 4f -> 2f, but that combined with 5f less recovery makes the move have 7f less total duration.
+- j.A hitbox doesn't go as far back but reaches further down, with a small part of it outside of her hurtbox.
- j.B hitbox doesn't reach quite as far back.
- j.C recovery increased a bit.
+ Backdash recovers 2f faster.
- j.2C hurtbox is bigger above/in front of her head during startup & active frames for both the charged & uncharged versions.
- Uncharged j.2C has a smaller hitbox both near her head and on her blade; doesn't reach quite as low now.
- 4C has a larger vertical hurtbox beginning 4f into startup, lasting until 8f after the active frames.
+ BE4B hitbox reaches very slightly lower.
- 22B hitbox doesn't reach quite as high.
+ 236B now reaches lower in the middle part of its hitbox.
+ 623B reaches much lower, otg relaunch ftw.

I forgot to pay attention to the attack properties, so no notes on those.  :psyduck:
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 12:20:03 AM by ShardZ »

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2012, 12:43:10 AM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16578480

Liked this dudes overall spacing. Pretty solid imo. Wish he used a teeny bit more j7B / 22B / dash under against more obvious aerial approaches and air techs. VS F-Hime on the other hand...2C 2strong.
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Tsnowflake

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2012, 10:23:18 PM »
Just wanted to contribute some simple combos I mashed out in training mode.

Quote from: Off of Raw Air Throw
GOLD THROW>Delay 236B (land)>5C> j.BC> dj.BC>dj.22B> combo ender (AT/214C/22C)
~3207 on C-Nanaya

Quote from: Off of B-version command grab w/ opponent in the corner
B COMMAND GRAB>5C> j.BC> dj.BC>dj.22B> combo ender
~2941 on C-Nanaya

This will also work at about 1/2 screen due to the distance Ciel moves after the grab connects.
I also noticed that some other normals/specials can be thrown in before the arials, 5a5c or 5b5c or 5b 236b however it seemed very spacing dependent and unreliable (at least for me) whereas simple 5c worked effectively and easily. The 5c also auto-corrects for when the character remains in or is throw out of the corner by the command grab.

Quote from: Off of B-version command grab w/ opponent very far from corner
B COMMAND GRAB>623C>j.A>j.B>22B> ender
~3000

I know these are super easy, but maybe one of you combo geniuses can come up with some higher damaging variants.

edit: stealing LKs formatting for neatness. edit2: more formatting for uniformity & added dmg numbers.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:49:48 PM by Tsnowflake »

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2012, 04:15:43 PM »
(too many damn characters in this game)

B command throw specifics (character backed in IMMEDIATE CORNER/no space)

OUT

Shiki T.
Aoko
Nanaya
Ciel
Sion
Ries
Vshi
Warachia
Roa
Mech (all)
Vermillion
Akiha
Seifuku
Nero
Hisui (all)


IN

Ancestor
Kouma
Miyako
Warc
Saint
Arc
Satsuki
Len
Ryougi
Shiro
NAC
Kohaku (all)
Neco
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2012, 09:10:05 PM »
Midscreen BnBs

Simple to Advanced-Intermediate
These combos are probably the most essential bnbs you'll use/need to use at midscreen (unless a character specific combo rewards more damage of course). There are dozens of variations for the combos posted below but these are by far (IMO) the simplest to execute w/o taking too much away from overall damage output.

NOTES!
***ALL COMBOS WERE PERFORMED ON NANAYA. VALUES GIVEN ARE BASED ON HIS DAMAGE MODIFIER
***AERIAL = j.BC>dj.BC>dj.22B>AIRTHROW


standard, Classic Combo
4764

2A>2A>2C>4C>A FLICKER>5A>5B>A FLICKER>5B>5C>j.BC>dj.BC>dj.22B>AIRTHROW


Extended B FLICKER Combo using 5B starter
5730

5B>2B>2C>4C>A FLICKER>5A>5B>A FLICKER>5B>B FLICKER>IAD j.C>land>j.BC>dj.BC>dj.22B>AIRTHROW


Double Jump>Airdash Variant w/ 5B starer
5180

5B>2B>2C>4C>A FLICKER>5A>5B>A FLICKER>5B>5C>j.C>dj.>AIRDASH>dj.AA>dj.22B>AIRTHROW


Simple BE5C combo
4763

2A>5B>2B>5C>A KNIFE>2B>BE5C>5C>AERIAL


BE5C>Sweep Combo
5003~5143

2A>2A>5C>A KNIFE>2B>BE5C>Delay A FLICKER>2C>4C>236A>5B>5C>AERIAL
***Can begin combo w/ 2A>5B. For whatever reason, the space it creates seems to make the Delay 236A land more consistently FROM MY EXPERIENCE.


Troublesome BE5C loop x2
5473

2A>2A>5C>A KNIFE>[2B>BE5C>Delay A FLICKER]x2>2C>4C>236A>5B>5C>AERIAL
***x2 = Execute notation in brackets [ ] twice
***Can begin combo w/ 2A>5B. For whatever reason, the space it creates seems to make the Delay 236A land more consistently FROM MY EXPERIENCE.


More Annoying Variant of Loop x2
5668

2A>2A>5C>A KNIFE>[2B>BE5C>Delay A FLICKER]x2>2C>4C>A FLICKER>5B>5{C}>
A FLICKER>5A>5C>AERIAL
***{ } = Slightly charge (or half charge) the 5{C}
***x2 = Execute notation in brackets [ ] twice
***Can begin combo w/ 2A>5B. For whatever reason, the space it creates seems to make the Delay 236A land more consistently FROM MY EXPERIENCE.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 09:24:31 PM by ZARbon »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Tsnowflake

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2012, 07:08:47 PM »
a small addendum to zar's list which may prove useful.

Quote from: Overhead Combo
BE4B>A KNIFE>2B>BE5C>Delay A FLICKER>5A>5B>A FLICKER>5B>5C>j.BC>dj.BC>dj.22B>AIRTHROW
5145 on C-Nanaya

Quote from: Air Throw Combo 2
GOLD THROW>(land) 2C>4C>A FLICKER>5B>5C>j.BC>dj.BC>dj.22B>AIRTHROW
3561 on C-Nanaya

Quote from: Air Throw Combo 3 (CORNER ONLY)
GOLD THROW>(land) 2C>4C>A FLICKER>5A>5B>A FLICKER>5B>5C>j.BC>dj.BC>dj.22B>AIRTHROW
3737 on C-Nanaya
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:50:08 PM by Tsnowflake »

Offline Chie Satonaka

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2012, 02:52:56 PM »
http://youtu.be/CxzyS1oFrXY

Quick test with fraps + basic IH combo. Will cook something small with her within a couple of days hopefully.
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2012, 03:32:01 PM »
Grab fraps hack (and vegas for edits) if you dont already have. "Full versions" get rid of the marquee at top if you're picky about that sort of thing.

resolution/ratio looks weird. would ask what settings you're using but I don't know too much about wtf I'm doing when processing vids anyway lol.
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Chie Satonaka

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2012, 03:48:03 PM »
Grab fraps hack (and vegas for edits) if you dont already have. "Full versions" get rid of the marquee at top if you're picky about that sort of thing.

resolution/ratio looks weird. would ask what settings you're using but I don't know too much about wtf I'm doing when processing vids anyway lol.

resolution is default and the aspect ratio is 16:9. Anything other than that and fraps causes my laptop to slowdown to like 30FPS.

Just to warn people ahead of time this video is going to be poverty as fuck. Like WMM levels of poverty here.
Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak!

Offline Chie Satonaka

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Re: [MBAACC] Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2012, 08:58:14 PM »
http://youtu.be/gFyuAq92ci4

Told you it was going to be poverty as fuck.

Edit: so poverty can't even watch all of it.

Edit 2: fixed the link for working CMV
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 10:48:27 PM by Brandino »
Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak!

Offline Chie Satonaka

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2012, 08:35:24 PM »
Almost 3 weeks since I made that video. I guess I can not be lazy enough to do notations.

Legend:
x - signifying that you're performing an link
> - signifying that you're performing an cancel
AT - Airthrow
[] - Signifying that you're charging the move
OTG - Off The Ground

Basics non-flicker combos
0:00 - 2A > 2A > 3B > 2C > 4C > J.B > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
0:07 - 2A > 2A > 3B > 2C > 4C > J.B > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22C
0:13 - 2A > 2A > 3B > 2C > 4C > J.B > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > j>22B > J.214C

Basic 1-flicker combos
0:20 - 2A > 2A > 3B > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5C > J.B. > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
0:28 - 2A > 2A > 3B > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5C > J.B. > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22C
0:36 - 2A > 2A > 3B > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5C > J.B. > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22B > J.214C
0:43 - Same as the combo above (editing error!)

Basic 2-Flicker combos
0:50 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
1:00 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22C
1:10 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5A > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > J.214C
1:17 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A > 63214C
1:27 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A x 623B x J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT

Basic OTG relaunches
1:38 - 2A > 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236A x 623B x J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
1:44 - 2A > 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236A > 63214C

Basic 2-Flicker IAD variation
1:49 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236B > IAD J.C x J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C  > J.22B > AT
1:58 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236B > IAD J.C x J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C  > J.22C
2:07 -2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236B > IAD J.C x J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C  > J.22B > J.214C

Raw Airthrow (AT) combos
2:17 - AT x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
2:25 - AT x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 236A x 623B x J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C
2:34 - AT x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 236A x 63214A
2:41 - AT x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 236A x 63214C
2:48 - AT x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 236A x 236C
2:56 - AT > J.236B *land* 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A x 63214A
3:03 - AT > J.236B *land* 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A x 63214C
3:13 - AT > J.236B *land* 236A x 5A > 5A > 236A x 5B > 236A x 623B x J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT

Overhead 4(B) combos
3:23 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J .C > J.22B > AT
3:33 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J .C > J.22C
3:44 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J .C > J.22B > J.214C
3:55 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236B > IAD J.C > J.A > J.C > > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
4:03 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A x 623B > J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
4:13 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A x 63214A
4:21 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A x 63214C
4:31 - 4(B) > 214A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A x 236C

OTG string post 236A flicker (Midscreen)
4:39 - 2A > 2A > 5B > 236C

OTG string post 236A flicker (Corner)
4:45 - 2A > 2A > 5B > 236C
4:50 - 2A > 5A (x4) > 5B > 236C
4:56 - 2A > 5A (x4) > 5B > 4B > 236B

2B > 5(C) x Flicker combo variaions
5:01 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > > J.C > J.22B > AT
5:11 - 2A > 2A > 5B > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > > J.C > J.22C
5:21 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > > J.C > J.22B > J.214C
5:30 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 623B J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C J.22B > AT
5:40 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 63214C
5:47 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 2A > 5A (x4) > 5B > 236C
5:55 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5B > 236B IAD J.C *land* J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
6:05 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A  x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > J.214C
6:16 - Same combo as above (editing error 2!)
6:27 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A  x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 236A x 63214A

2B > 5(C) Double Flicker combos (corner)
6:35 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
6:44 -  2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22C
6:55 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > J.214C
7:06 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236B > IAD J.C *land* J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
7:17 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A  x 63214A
7:27 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A  x 63214C
7:36 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A  x 236C
7:44 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 236A  x 2A > 5A (x4) > 5B > 236C
7:55 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A > 63214C
8:06 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B > 236A x 623B > J.A > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT

*sample* Instant Heat combos *sample*
8:17 - 2A > 2A > 3B(1-hit) > 2C > 4C > 236A x 5A > 5B > 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22B > IH x J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
8:26 - 5B > 2B >236A IH x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.A > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
8:35 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A > 2B > 5(C) x 236A IH x 4(B) x 2C > 4C > 236A x 5B >236A x 41236C
8:50 - 2A > 2A > 3B (1-hit) > 5C > 214A > 2B > 5(C) x 236A IH x 4(B) x 2B > 5(C) x 236A x 5B > 5C > J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > J.22B > AT
Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak! Steak!

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2012, 08:48:31 AM »
To the ppl w/ nico accounts:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/search/MBAACC+%E3%82%89%E3%81%90%28F%E3%82%B7%E3%82%A8%E3%83%AB%29vs%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B9%E3%83%94%28CF%E3%83%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AD%E3%82%A2%E3%81%AE%E5%A4%9C?sort=f&order=d

MBAACC らぐ(Fシエル)vsハイスピ(CFワラキアの夜)大百科
Match Set of Ragu (F-Ciel) vs HighSpeed (C/F-Wara)

If someone could compile the vids and up to YouTube, that would be great.
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline JSH

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2012, 11:57:37 AM »
I'm having trouble linking ja after 623b from otg
Any tips or advice?

It seems like I can't jump fast enough to hit the ja before the opponent techs

Offline ehrik

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2012, 12:40:13 PM »
Awesome more highspeed!
<Graven> When you are Ciel, don't try to win, don't even try to do anything. The more you do, the stupider and bigger faggot you become because you're using Ciel.
<WyvernLord> roku is faking his disappearance so melty bread can come out and try to convince him of his value to the community

Offline Sashi

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2012, 12:41:49 PM »
Just gotta hold 9 after 623B and press A on the first possible frame. A little tight, but easily doable with a little practice.

EDIT: By the way, that video so poverty, it hurts.
Clmelty: Rokumoe!

Offline JSH

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2012, 08:54:16 AM »
Ah yeah I see seems pressing 9 instead of 8 helps haha
Thanks for the tip
Time to practice

Also, I'm guessing you can do the same thing off 623C right?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 08:56:29 AM by JSH »

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2012, 05:30:55 PM »
I'm having trouble linking ja after 623b from otg
Any tips or advice?

It seems like I can't jump fast enough to hit the ja before the opponent techs
This link...is utter bullshit. Some characters (eg nero) are EXTREMELY hard to followup w/ JA on. I want to suggest "practice more" but the timing really is just finicky as fuck. I thought the "changes to vector", or whatever, would make the link easier but nope. However, w/ some prior gravity added, the link does seem to be a tiny bit easier.

Awesome more highspeed!
you...get out.

But seriously though, what did you think about Highspeed's performance in this match up? IMO both players were playing way too reserved for no reason and our matches are seem to be paced differently from what I was seeing. I mostly curious as to what they were so afraid of.  :mystery:
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline ehrik

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2012, 06:27:54 PM »
Honestly I think Highspeed was playing too scared as well, matchup inexperience maybe? Probably too scared of the dmg she can do to him, and the way her daggers + 2b can shut down two important approaches for wara.

But the thing is Ragu wasn't spacing with 2b and 236b (and more importantly confirming with iad j.c!), but instead was doing dash 5a and spamming daggers. He also didn't take advantage of 5[c] being +1, the threat of 236b to catch jump outs, 4{b} 236a (was just doing 4{b} then random shit? wtf) and the fuzzy. Highspeed wasn't doing any heats anyways, or taking risks with shield. Could have just done it all day lol.

what im getting at is that highspeed shouldn't have been that scared of ragu fcl, he wasn't doing the REALLY scary stuff imo in that matchup. could have just done whatever

anyways this is all imo, maybe they were just trolling us!?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:29:54 PM by ehrik »
<Graven> When you are Ciel, don't try to win, don't even try to do anything. The more you do, the stupider and bigger faggot you become because you're using Ciel.
<WyvernLord> roku is faking his disappearance so melty bread can come out and try to convince him of his value to the community

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2012, 07:00:02 PM »
Ok, time for an F-Ciel Overview


Format
[Move Changed - Brief Description of Change]
(In-depth details of the degree of change)

{**My personal experiences and opinions about the change}



Buffs (Console to CC)

BE5C - Increased Air Untechable Time
Longer untech window opens doors to new combo possibilities (eg BE5C>2C) and some extra dmg.

2C - Recovery down
Recovering frames have been reduced a bit (forgot new duration). Not sure how this really helps her since throwing out 2C's outside of anything but a combo (or fishing for backstep using OS) will get her in trouble if whiffed.

**Don't know if it's just me but, I feel that this reduction has some how affected the ability to late cancel (e.g. 2C>delay 4C>236A etc.). In certain combo situations (eg post SC or an air CH hit), I'll try to do a late 4C and it doesn't come out at all AND if 4C is executed too soon, 236A followup whiffs. This has forced me to replace the delayed 4C w/ delayed 236B (2C>delay 236B>236A etc. **This actually gets more dmg!)

236A - Improved Hitbox
From the looks of it, the hitbox seems to be higher(?), allowing for combos, I'm almost certain, wasn't possible in Console (e.g. 236B>236A).

236B - Improved Hitbox
Hitbox is lower, hitting ALL characters when crouching. The hitbox however, does not extend to the extreme tip (fist). Comboing into 236B on characters in crouch state is now doable vs the entire cast.

**In addition, this complements her neutral game a ton allowing her to slip in flickers vs characters she wasn't able to do so against in Console. 236B is a very fast, has distance that rivals nero 4C, is air unblockable and +1 when guarded. Best and most significant buff imo

63214B - Lower Trajectory On Wall Bound
Lower wall bounce allowing for pretty much any combo follow up you can imagine i.e. this move has become usefull.

**2nd most significant buff imo. What more could you ask for? Oh, I know, HAVING THE WALL BOUND DIRECTION BE CONSISTENT. Yes, when throwing an opponent in the immediate corner, some characters are rebounded into the corner while other are bounced out. Good luck determining if your opponent is ONE PIXEL out of the corner when throwing them. Oh yeah, and have fun memorizing that list. Still a HUGE improvement from console.
*Supposedly ALL command throw strengths were made "stronger". Not entirely sure how A and C versions were changed and they look pretty much the same to me.

214C - Recovery shorter
Recovery reduced by 5-6F (was confirmed but forgot exact number).

**Helps her out a bit when trying to cover your ass using the 214B>214C series in neutral. The reduced recovery isn't enough reason to try and lame someone out carelessly with it as I had thought initially. So yeah, you can still get blown up for not accurately judging your opponent's positioning on screen.

214A - Start up and speed faster
Speed increased enough to combo a tip hit5C into 214A.

**In neutral, it's fast enough to snipe players a bit sooner than before, I guess. Not much has changed on how/when this move is used outside of new combo potential.

AD - Easier to connect the last hit
All hits connect in even the most absurd circumstances (including otg combos).

**Cool...but it still does ass dmg =/



Nerfs (Console to CC)

4C - Hitbox, untech time weaker
To draw a picture of how much the untech time was reduced: From a 1-Hit/tip hit 4C, landing a JC after is no longer possible.

**The hitbox still appears to be the same, but that untech time reduction is obvious. Harder to confirm easy followups from "awkwardly placed" 4Cs. Didn't realize how good this move was until comparing, side-by-side, the Console and CC versions.

J2C - Recovery increased
Increased landing recovery. Harder to follow up w/ strings and links on hit/guard

**Another side-by-side comparison that blew my mind. (J2C was a core part of my pressure and maybe some other players). It's still viable to an extent but certainly not as spammable. The new CH stun helps out a bit but in instances where it lands non-CH, you'd better be on point w/ the 5A/2A/5B link after.

5C - Damage down
Less dmg

**Meh.

Air Somer - Movement Restricted
Double Jump on whiffed or guarded J22A/B removed. Is now only permissible from hit.

**Well that sucks. No more SJing around like a retard trying to snipe players lingering above, only to double jump away to safety when it doesn't land. Oh yeah, and you can forget about using SJ J214A>J22B to reposition and scout opponents below to snipe w/ more knives. Lastly, timer scam is a bit weaker w/o this now =/

Air B Somer - Damage down
Less dmg.

**Meh. Oh wait, this less dmg trend is starting to add up!

J22A - EX Cancel on 1st Frame Removed (SECRET NERF)
In console, Fciel was able to EX Cancel J22A before the first active frame (which was frame 4, I believe?). No longer possible in CC

**Death of Somerheat...well at least the A version. It's IS however still possible to execute Somerheat using J22B but THIS IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT AND OFTEN RESULTS IN EXECUTION ERROR. Instead of the simple shortcut that gave you both 22A AND IH in a single button press, you now have to perform: J22B~5E~5C. Even if you possess the dexterity to exe this, the buffer results in inconsistencies. Somerheat was imo an extremely clutch and practical technique (with excellent meter management, it was possible to see one once a round). Someheat was deadly due to the fact that it was: 1) It was potentially a TRUE crossup (meaning it got around crossup protection), 2) One of the fastest, if not the fastest, "overhead" techniques available in the game, 3) Resulted in 4.5k~5k dmg on hit (assuming you followed w/ JC>214C or JC>5B), 4) Regenerated health while attacking (IH property) and, 5) Conditioned the opponent to guard high when in Max mode, allowing for other Somerheat mixups to be thrown into play.

**J214A - Landing Recovery Increased
Someone confirm from change list please. Can't remember if I read this somewhere before.



"Huh"

623C - Prorate and vector weaker
???

**Umm, to this day, I still don't know wtf this means. At first I assumed the "vector weaker" helped to make the JA link after a bit easier but it doesn't seem much different from Console.






-I feel like FCiel received a lot of "fake buffs" and received nothing truly significant outside of the 236B and B Coma changes

-Example of "fake buff"? BE5C increased untech time. Now this was supposed to improve comboability but ended up being a bust. Why? Because the 2B>BE5C loop that she gained is erratic as fuck. I'm assuming this was supposed to replace the "outdated" bnb but the BE5C loop is beyond compression (unless you can SEE pixels). Even the faster 214A sets this combo up w/ ease. Only problem is finishing it though

-Another (sort of) "fake buff": B coma throw having "favorable" trajectory on wall bounce...Except half the cast is bounding in one direction while the other half in the other direction. To make things worse, the direction of the bound is set according to whether they're in the immediate corner or not. So unless you can again, SEE PIXELS, going for the optimal dmg combo is going to be a mindfuck sometimes (I usu. go for 5C if things look iffy though =/)

-2C and Arc Drive changes were pretty damn fraudulent too.

-Other factors that hurt her game were overall decreased dmg. This doesn't bother me TOO MUCH as the majority of the cast got their shit toned down a notch.

-Another factor, GUARD DAMAGE REDUCTION. This hurts me a lot. J214C having guard dmg reduction was no biggie for me. After all, she was still able to keep advantage when guarded. What I don't like though, is how EVERYTHING pertaining to guard dmg was dropped (universally). BE5C, in particular, doing turds for guard dmg is like a slap in the face. This reduce has affected my gameplay in that players are able to turtle more/longer against Fciel. There's far too much effort involved now to break guard. Even if I am able to force my opponent to stay put (using Flickers, 623A and staggers), there's little to no reward.

-These nerfs may seem insignificant but become a problem when they add up, making Fciel slightly weaker from Console imo. Her core game remains the same but the reward is lower and as a result she doesn't feel as "cheap" this time around.

-Oh yeah, and after running tests some time ago for J22A, it seems that the EX Cancel point change on J22A (ONLY TO THE A VERSION, mind you) was blatant. Good shit Ecole lol.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 07:45:51 PM by ZARbomb »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Beno~

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Re: [MBAACC] F-urry Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2012, 09:33:55 PM »
Awesome more highspeed!
More highspeed getting bodied lol
Why does highspeed use tornadoes to much?
Shouldn't he be spamming roku summon.
I feel like both c-wara and f-ciel have bad wakeup options if you can just bait ciel's shield... and well Wara lol
So they just scared to get knocked down.